February 11, 2008 at 1:15 pm #53639
There is a “heated” discussion within the overseas real estate business community at the moment, whether or not to name and shame developers, agents, lawyers ect who act on behalf of clients in a poor, illegal of unprofessional way.
I believe that those involved in the business, who do not act professionally should be “outed” in the media. Obviously I am not advocating liable, and that those who have been named should have the opportunity to respond to any accusations made.
But the feeling from others in the overseas real estate business seems to be to keep quiet in the fear that open debate could harm their enterprises.
As a member and sometime contributor, I would welcome any ones opinion on this matter whether they are “in” the business or a consumer or any interested party.
February 11, 2008 at 2:56 pm #78649InezParticipant
This is certainly a double edged sword and yes I am in the busines and whilst I am very open on the state of affairs, it could be construed as trying to obtain business by rubbishing the opponent!
I do name and shame – always have done – but only to people who ask or who bring up the conversation or who really want to hear
My thoughts are the media will be doing enoughof that as it is and a good reputation spreads just as fast.
February 11, 2008 at 3:12 pm #78651
Yes, we should name & shame them. The old British attitude of if you have nothing to hide …………..
Why it should not be exposed ???? The innocent and people buying in good faith will be protected and that can only be good for the Industry and all associated with it
February 11, 2008 at 3:30 pm #78652
Understand that it is very tempting to want to tell the world about bad service but sadly I do forecast some issues in “Naming and Shaming”.
1) Mark getting sued.
2) Good people getting branded badly because they once worked for a “bad” company.
4) Deliberate rumour-spreading.
Much better I think to name precise, provable cases where a specific agency salesperson, developer salesperson, lawyer etc. was involved. I for one have had both excellent and awful experience when dealing with all of the above – totally depends on the individual.
Hope this post stops some getting carried away!
February 11, 2008 at 6:17 pm #78653
But if something stated is marked “My Personal Experience” and all facts, good or bad are reported, then libel law doesn’t apply?
If someone does feel that strongly, why risk the forum admin., being sued?
Start your own website for it, it costs little.
Lawyer observation appreciated.
February 11, 2008 at 7:32 pm #78656katyBlocked
The strength of these type of forums is the exchange of information. There is a grey area as someone said someone can just rubbish the opposition. Have seen it on this forum, agents write what seems a very honest post and craftily introduce another development (or themselves) or something similar. I do not see what is wrong with naming if the post is abcked up with facts as to why
February 11, 2008 at 7:58 pm #78657
It’s very hard, long and tiresome to sue (most of these webs are based in America). It’s also true that there isn’t much defence here aginst rip-offs. The authorities aren’t that bothered by one foreigner ripping off another and then there is the all-to-common ‘midnight flit’ which the Spanish rarely do. Then again – if you sue a 3000 euro SL company then there won’t be much in the kitty.
There are web-sites prepared to warn other people. In finance, there is the http://www.costa-action.co.uk/ which is now putting out a magazine.
I’ve got a few links that protect us at http://www.theentertaineronline.com/e107_plugins/links_page/links.php?cat.2
February 11, 2008 at 8:00 pm #78658
I feel that at first sight this could be a useful idea but it is fraught with danger.
Spain is so different in the way business is done, the thought processes are different.Sometimes problems occur due to this, the Spaniard is used to a Mañana mañana , no problem, no problem ,attitude. This I consider leads to a lot of problems for foreigners.
Also there is a large amount of misinformation spread by barrack room or in most cases bar room lawyers, who can just about manage to order a beer in Spanish but are at the same time expert,they think, on all aspects of Spanish law , property transactions etc.
Additionally as I have commented many times on this forum the local media is in business to make money, so advertising is their prime interest and their coverage of news and the adverts they carry can help the spread of misinformation.
To return to local experts, they could put innocent names on this forum
through nastiness,wanting to do someone out of a deal of some kind . Perhaps jealousy that someone was making a good living, when they were struggling, even though the other person was working in an honest way. .
Let me quote a case where misinformation caused a family to return to the UK because their name was blackened through misinformation. The couple concerned were involved in a local charity , this required Mrs X to handle various amounts of money. Coincidentally the couple decided to take a cruise and were on it when an audit was carried out. There was money missing, of course many people added 2 +2 and made 5., their view was ;”money missing ,Mr and Mrs X away on a cruise and we know they do n´t come cheap = Mr and Mrs X have stolen the money”.
On their return Mr and Mrs X were berated by other members of the charity ,given no chance to prove their innocence and forced to resign from the charity. This of course all added to the rumours “friends” boycotted them and their lives became impossible in the area where they had lived happily for many years. Sometime later the missing money was found, Mr and Mrs X although completely innocent were not invited to return to the charity ,no public announcement was made stating their innocence, the rumours still continued and Mr and Mrs X have returned to the UK. I could without exageration quote hundreds of similar cases.
We all know there are a lot of sharks in the property world in Spain, who should be named and shamed,the problem I fear is that a lot of innocent people could also be caught in the net as well.
I consider this forum to be an excellent way for people who have bought, are thinking of buying to relate their thoughts and experiences . It would be a great shame if censorship of contributions had to be made which could happen if there was a chance of legal action being taken against Mark for what had been written on this forum.
February 12, 2008 at 9:36 am #78665
Thank you for your comments so far.
I must clarify my intentions: the point about naming and shaming is not just about Spain, or on this forum.
Since the National Association of Estate Agents in the UK “took over” FOPDAC. There has been one occasion when the NAEA has warned UK estate agents about a developer in Florida. This action set off the debate with members.
Also in the news is Superior Homes going into liquidation. The auditors Price Waterhouse & Coopers, blamed the developers for not paying over commissions.
For developers not to pay their agents is a sign of the times, but I believe that purchasors will also loose out. If a developer is willing to stitch up the “hand that feeds” how will “he” treat his customers?
As I mentioned, this is not about naming and shaming on this forum, it is about your opinions on the principle.
February 13, 2008 at 12:43 pm #78693angieBlocked
Without doubt these crooks should be named and shamed including Companies and their employees.
I know nothing about websites but I wish such a site could be set-up and to hell with their threats of legal action. Surely it would be difficult to sue a site with a vague address.
I mean there are sites in existance like http://www.blagger.com and http://www.crimeshare.com where you can submit complaints or, type in a name to look the sharks up, they haven´t been closed down in years.
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