- This topic has 52 replies, 20 voices, and was last updated 19 years, 3 months ago by
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http://spanish-properties-forums.com/polaris-world-forum.asp?mid=54
The above forum is dedicated to PW. However, it does seem to be full of owners wearing rose coloured specs.
If I was buying I would look for a resale. There does seem to be a lot of people who bought off plan and are now desperate to sell. I have even seen quite a few PW properties advertised at the original contract price, 3 years after the off plan contract was signed. And don’t forget, Murcia is supposed to a Spanish property hotspot if you believe the hype.
Might be worth renting at Mar Menor if you really want the full PW experience
Regards
Kevin -
Depending on where you are looking take a look at Marina D’or, the biggest vacation city in Europe (or it will be) I was there a couple of weeks ago to sign up as an agent and the place is impressive. Already 7,000 built and you can buy from ready to move in to off plan for 22 months. They will also help you resell it bvefore completion (and they really do)
However they offer a rental guarantee (not huge but it is a guarantee) and 3 tour operators are buing up July-Sept for between €9,000 – €12,000. They are selling 100 units per week, mainly to Spanish, however it is advertised worldwide – I have even heard recently the CHinese government are going to promote it.
Would love to take you up there (and earn a commission) however there is nothing to stop you contacting them yourself – the price is the same and the service equally so. No hard sell as they dont need to. I found myself wondering when I could afford to buy a place there
For an off plan investor the prices go up every 3 months by on average 1% per month mainly due to the sheer volume of sales. All building work has licences all is legal and your money is held (I believe) in Escrow until escritura. But in any event they can always sell your property on as there is excellent demand.
For a holiday destination it is excellent, facilities are great, lots and lots of green garden areas, lots of swimming pools, 3 golf courses planned (permission already granted) and a new airport underway, excellent rail and road links, and very well thought out to cater for every type of holiday maker from the night clubbers (nocturnal zone) to even skiers (largest dry ski slope in the world) and those wanting to relax in a health spa – huge water spa centre.
It is worthwhile taking a look at and as I say you have nothing to lose and everything to gain. No hard selling but they really dont need to. Someone just shows you round for 3 hours and after that you go to your hotel room, free to do whatever you want for the remainder. But for sure when you see it you will buy.
Good luck and best wishes
Vince
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No more tiny than any other 2 bed apartments. The fact of the matter is they are selling and fast, and for an investment that is good. More importantly the majority of sales are to Spanish Buyers who are more canny than foreign buyers.
As for rose coloured spectacles, what I saw was impressive, the Spa was just one of many things, the gardens just behind the beach are well maintained, the area has been well thought out with wide roads, lots of parking, and plenty of commercial areas.
This is not meant to be a place to live more a place to go on holiday and that is exactly what it is being pitched as – the holiday resort of Europe. 65M for an apartment is about average where we are so they are no smaller and no bigger than average. But the facilities available both now and int he future make this something to invest in. However we all have different ideas. But as an investor myself the things I look for are very simple
1. Can I make money on it (the answer is yes as the prices are rising at a not so tardy 12% per annum)
2. Can I resell it – Yes there are plenty of buyers already
3. Can I rent it out – yes either a rental guarantee (granted not huge) or contact tour operators. More importantly it appears that they are marketing to every corner of the world. They have recently opened an office in London and Paris, not to mention Bejing in China, so they are doing everything they can to make sure that as an investor or holiday maker there is a possibility of making money and renting your property out.However other than apartments there are also planned villas and adosados,
THe infrastructure is in place, the links are being built as is a new airport. Marbella or Malaga it may not be, Terra Mitica it may not be, but a holiday makers paradise it will be close to.
Whilst I am not saying that prices will rise ad infinitum and as with all speculative purchases you could be left with a property that you cant shift buyer beware, but on first appearance the boxes are ticked. The fact that unlike most other developments the developer will actually sell your property for you when the time comes is different – that surely suggests they have confidence in their own product. Unlike many developments that we see “advertised” on here the building licences are in place as are bank guarantees, no black money changes hand and estate agent commissions arent extreme (I believe the maximum is 10% but you have to sell a lot to get to that point)
So what exactly are the downsides, please enlighten me
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sorry vbtudor, but did you not see “20,000” apartments?
Take away the see and you could be in a rough area of an eastern block country with 20 rectangular blocks of apartments in a row, so as part of an investment as you correctly say selling on is important.
How do you suggest selling on quickly against that many apartments? The only ones with any decent views are over 400k euros, you would have to wait a long time to see any return on that.
I agree the amenities are good, and a holiday home yes it is, but selling quickly I wouldn´t agree with. It´s hard enough to sell on in a complex of 200 apartments, you only have to look at the Costa del Sol to see that, it would be nigh on impossible to sell on there, and prices are not cheap.
As for the developer selling on, I have heard that down here on the CDS too, just like all the agents tell you too, and where odes that get you?
anything else?
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Katherine, Polaris World is a long term investment but one which will come to fruition. The properties on the Mar Menor site are superb and as close to the projected plans i have seen for sometime. I think the press issue were centred around the town development of Conda de Alhama which i believe was optimistic in the extreme. Realistically you will pay an increased urbanistic fee in comparison to other sites but in my opinion Polaris World is still a sound investment, with added protection of bank guarentees for the stage payments, and one i have made my self without a qualm. P.S. yes i do promote the site amongst others but what i have said is based on my experience of buying a property my self on polaris.
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I am very aware of the reports, some good and some not so good. I am also aware that the area is reaching saturation point with many properties up for resale even before the new developments. For some it will be the right choice.
Having booked the trip I am honouring my comittment, but will make an informed choice when I have seen it .
Katherine -
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Firstly let me declare my interest. I am an agent, and from my experience from the industry buyers are right to be cautious and even cynical about what they are told. VB Tudor is a good case in point, the talk is of good investment etc yet seems to display a limited knowledge of the market. The fact that prices may be rising is not always due to the market, it is not unusual for prices to be ‘forced’ by a developer to substantiate the ‘investment’ tag. Marina D’Or has good facilities in lets face it, an average location, and with properties that fall a long way short of what is available in Spain, indeed many of the apartments are in the same price bracket as villas in more established areas, that have infrastructure etc. As for the ‘holiday home’, you can go to the spa as a day visitor( recommended), but once you have seen it there is not a lot else, and a good feature of a holiday home is the ability to get there quickly and cheaply.
This is not a specific poke at VB tudor but a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, and frankly I am a little fed up of agents claiming rental incomes and investment returns that do not hold water.Plain common sense will tell you not everything will rent and not everything is an ‘investment’, a true agents job is to point this out and be able to support any claim that is made. So I would recommend being wary and sceptical, but being cynical can mean that there is a lot of value add a good agent can bring that is missed. When in doubt ask then ask again!
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OK I admit I was wrong. I was originally told on site that prices are from 110,000 Euros. I have just (after 4 weeks of asking) received the price lis and was shocked to see the prices from a minimum of 225,000. This does change perspective greatly and now I see why you have such a thing abuot it.
At 110,000 it stacked up (I did do my sums based on what I was told) at 260,000 – the average price and more- it just doesnt. At the time at the price I genuinely would have bought one – it may not be the prettiest of developments but there was a value (or so I thought) and I would never ask anyone to put money into something that I wouldnt be prepared to do so myself (and have done on three ocassions)
however now we will be concentrating on our local market. The last thing I would want to do is to recommend to serious investors an investment that is not going to see the light of day, (and for the record would only recommend to an amatuer investor if they were fully appraised of the risks)
Also I DO offer a guarantee to resell any property that we sell – and I could just see lots of problems at these prices. As you say they are on a par with buying a villa in this area of Spain (Oliva/Pego/Gandia)
So I humbly apologise for any previous statement and will concentrate on the area I know best – because it is still a beautiful area and does have some great properties – though few and far between.
Regards
Vince
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Hi, I don’t normally post on forum’s but feel I have to say something on this one, I too am a builder and have been all my life, 18 months ago my nephew asked me to accompany him on a trip to murcia, his intention, to buy an investment property on polaris world, I hadn’t planned it, but I too ended up buying a two bed apartment, I was very impressed with the polaris world concept, and the company. There are thousands of people who have bought on polaris world, including retired bankers, many builders of all trades,footballers,investers, and so rumour has it, a couple of major film stars. for those who don’t know, polaris is made up of 6 individual resorts, each with it’s own facilities, I have purchased on Latorre which apart from the 18 hole golf course will include a town centre with many shops,restaraunts,bars and banks, a five star intercontinental hotel, a kings college, and its own hospital, there are several lakes on the course including one in the town centre.finaly,any owner on any resort will have full access to all the facilities of the other resorts including a major sports centre.
Will it prove to be a good investment, who know’s,as with all investments you pays your money you takes your chance, but I do believe it will be a great place to holiday which was my reason for buying, and I am not looking at this through rose coloured glasses, threw them away many years ago.
I do hope that Katy will respond to this and impart on us polaris world owners this amazing
wisdom or insight that she seems to think she posseses,and show us what we are blind to. -
Why you should feel the need for me to respond to your posting I’m not sure, I only made one comment on this “concept” (agent speak??) and there are hundreds of negative comments about it, search this site mate and you will find many or do a google and find hundreds. After reading all of them come back and respond to me on why this development is a good buy.
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Firstly, I don’t mean to cause offence, but we’re pen-pals not ‘mates’. Of course I’ve done a google search, it’s how I came across this forum. You’re right, there are a lot of negative comments about polaris and they seem to be the only ones you have taken any interest in, because if you do a google search you will also find just as many good comments. Like I said before I didn’t buy on polaris as an investement, but I know there are a lot of people who did, and I am sure they are just as clever as you, my reason for asking for your response was that the origional question was “Does anyone have any information on polaris world?” Constructive criticism is helpful and fine, patronising smarmy useless comments, agent speak or not, just a waste of time
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@kw wrote:
Firstly, I don’t mean to cause offence, …..Constructive criticism is helpful and fine, patronising smarmy useless comments, agent speak or not, just a waste of time
You don’t call that offensive??
Hmm, “Pot calling the kettle black ” springs to mind!
People come to this forum in all sorts of guises. If you are such a “happy punter”, why would you do a Google search and come here to rave about PW. when most people who post here are either looking for advice or are in trouble because of the corruption endemic in Southern Spain, esp the CDS. 😕
Seems like you are just looking for an argument. Well wrong time , wrong place, wrong lady! (but I know Katy can stand up for herself!!) We all take an interest in many Topics. PW is waaaay down the list!
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What are you sisters? my comment on not meaning to cause offence was directed solely on us not being ‘mates’, and should not have been taken out of context (because the rest of what I said, such as the section you underlined, was meant to be offensive, just as katy’s earlier claim that all polaris world buyers are blind was meant to be offensive).
But you seem to be missing my point, you said it yourself, people who post on this forum are looking for advice, so why didn’t you give it, only now you have something to say?
You are quite wrong i’m not looking for an argument, but this is a forum, and I would hope not a platform for people to express nothing but sarcasm and distasteful quips. -
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OK. a bit of straight advice, not sarcastic If you are looking to buy in spain, don’t buy off-plan, read all the forums, beware of swarmy estate agents flogging developments that may never be completed and try not to shoot the messenger when you do not get the reply you wanted. last response you will get from me KW adios.
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Like PW I have monitored this forum for a while after finding it on Google. I searched on Google not because I was in trouble or needed advice. The fact was we had made a major investment in a holiday home on the Costa del Sol and was interested in the area we bought in. In fact when I search for Elvira on Google I came across a posting from a lady that had bought in Green Hills and we nearly bought there. It was from Claire and a sorry story it was too, thankfully it’s all over and you have your money back.
I checked the forum from time to time and have been tempted to contribute but dare not as it seems to be a bit of a closed shop of people who dislike Spain and the Costa del Sol in particular. It did seem to me as a casual observer that anyone with anything positive to say about agents, solicitors or promoters got flamed very quickly. I for one was very happy with my agent who I now count as a friend and see for a beer when I’m out there. The Solicitors withheld payments for the apartment until the bank guarantee was in place and ratified and did us a good job. The promoter, the same promoter as Green Hills, was not as bad as the builders of our home in the UK for fairness and snagging defects, we are now happy with both properties.
Sales agents are there to sell, rarely do they tell you the bad stuff and rarely are they very well informed. I once sued a UK estate agent for telling lies and won. I am challenging in the courts a UK based solicitor who broke the law at the moment. So it’s not just Spain and if you want some bad and dirty planning examples from the UK take a look in the papers.
I do think that “……. we do keep trying don’t we, but, there is none so blind as those who do not want to see!” is patronising, as it suggests that “others” outside this closed shop are blind to the pitfalls of buying property, anywhere not just Spain.
Some of you guys had a bad experience and for that I am sorry, it is a shame because your experience should have been a good one. I do think that this forum is useful but could be more so if as JW suggests it is not assumed that all outside the closed shop are those who do not want to see!
Paul
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Many many Brits must have bought off plan and are happy. We hope 😯 . Certainly off plan sales have been going on for years
This site deals ,very successfully, with the folk with concerns and problems relating from all areas of property purchase in Spain.Just don’t rush in. Buy property here as you would in England by using independant lawyers and making sure that permission is in place before parting with any cash or signing any agreement,.
Buying any property on just the say so of another person,particularly one who is doing the selling ,without seeking independant legal advice, is downright stupid but I see no reason why having done all the checks and one is happy with the purchase why we as adults shouldn’t then seek others opinions on a forum without everything going haywire.
Having said this sometimes in Spain legal things become illegal. Well no-one can plan for that.
Fortunately or not we are all different and accept and like different things.All this is just my opinion so sorry if anyone takes offence. I am happy in Spain and with this forum and I am sure others can be too.
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About Polaris World
I am not an estate agent, I am not a solicitor, I am not a builder. I am an amateur property investor (i.e. I have a full time job plus a few properties as well).
I nearly bought on PW La Torre. I placed a deposit, changed my mind, and PW returned my deposit reasonably quickly.
From reading the posts on this forum and the PW forum, PW do seem to be a decent company.
1) They do actually build what they say they are going to build
2) When they don’t get the relevant planning consent, they seem to be relatively up front and give their customers a choice of money back or discount off an alternative.
3) They do seem to offer a reasonable after sales service, i.e fixing snagging etc.
If I was going to buy in Spain, then PW in my opinion has a lot going for it. However, as a property investor, PW don’t add up. On PW, you can buy resales cheaper than the current PW list. You can buy resales at the original contract price of 2 years ago. And this is in Murcia, supposed to be a property hotspot with mega anual capital growth. Rentals per week are just a few hundred euros and still lots of availability. There will be even more availability as more resorts come on line. Oh, and just check the real golf rates to move from course to course (but there is only one 9 holes course open anyway)
Of course, if you just want a holiday home and don’t care about capital growth or rental income, then PW is as good as (if not better) than most golf resorts.
Regards
Kevin -
Phew!!!! This thread has made good reading. I too have been keeping one eye on the forum because I’ve been thinking of buying. Most of the postings have almost put me off the idea altogether – perhaps I will just rent!! It’s also rather scarry that agents can convince themselves (and of-course others) when the product they are offering represents poor value for money and high risk.
The market also seems to be waning. The investors have moved off to other countries and developers and agents are chasing the few ‘life-style’ purchasers left. With the correct catalyst , such as America having a go at Iran, the market could go into melt-down!
But having said that, off-plan still seems attractive. Not sure why. Is it the thought of buying new or delaying the final cost for 18 months?
Perhaps I’ll go and purchase a flat in Bognor Regis!
Well done Katy and Claire – your postings are spot-on.
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To those on this thread that think this forum is a kind of ‘fraternity’ (close shop I think you said) for people who do not like Spain and think that all agents, all developers and all lawyers are no good, I have nothing else to add other than the fact that you are totally wrong.
People like Claire, Katy, ourselves and many others wanted to buy in Spain because we love the country and its people. Personally, I lived and studied in Spain during my university years and I have some of my best friends there. The bad experience we and others had (even though we thought we were taking all precautions to ensure that everything was legal and that the developer had a good history and was reputable) does not change how we feel about Spain. We still love it and we were greatly disappointed when our purchase ended in such a bad way, leaving us chasing the developers for our money for 3 whole years! Esp. in our case Spain was going to be our main home and not a second-holiday-home. So, in that respect you cannot be any further from the truth.
As for the developers and lawyers, no one from the regular contributors on the forum suggests that ALL DEVELOPERS are unreliable. However, CDS is a rather special case in comparison with other areas of Spain.
Unfortunately, in the majority of cases in CDS the dvlprs became too greedy, and even if we accept your point of view for a moment, the truth of the matter is that instead of them reporting bad practices (re Town Hall/Planning in Marbella) and ‘extortion’, as the President of the Andalusian Federation of Developers stated the other day, they complied with these practices and went along with them. So, it is no good that they are crying ‘wolf’ now.
As for the lawyers, we all know very well now that when you buy a property never but never use a lawyer suggested by the estate agent. Chances are (well not only chances….!) that their interests are with the agents and the developers as they give them a constant stream of customers. So, obviously they do not want to upset them!! 😉
In that respect, I must admit that we were very naive. Coming from England where lawyers are there to protect their clients interests, we thought that the same applied everywhere. What a naive mistake! Anyway, life is a learning process and we learned our lesson pretty quick!
We sacked our original lawyers and we now have an independent lawyer who’s fighting our corner. From our actions it is evident that we don think that ALL LAWYERS are no good in Spain. And certainly there are at least 3 good lawyers who contribute to the forum on a regular basis and they have been excellent.So, when people like Claire, Katy and others try to give advice to people who ask for it, the advice offered (from personal experiences and knowledge acquired over the last 3 years) is well meant and with the intention of making people aware of all the potential traps and pitfalls.
My advice to all of you who attack people like Katy, Claire etc is: ‘don’t shoot the messenger’. Read the information and advice given and take it into consideration if you feel it’s of any value to you.
Katerina
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Oh dear, I’m guessing that part of Charlies last statement was aimed at me, if not, I apologise, if so then you too seem too have missed my point, I was not making a personal attack against Katy, or Claire, I don’t know them, I am quite sure they are fine. As you say, people come to these sites looking for advice, myself included, so they can make an informed decision, so what part of none so blind, etc., would you consider to be good advice? I cant understand why we keep being told ‘Don’t shoot the messenger’ when what I have repeatedly been trying to get across, is that there was no message, Katherneml’s only recourse seems’ to have been to go to polaris and find out for herself, which was probably the best advice she could have been given anyway.
Reading back my previous posts I may have given the impression that I am an agent trying to flog polaris, I’m not, I do search the forums looking for information, only because it is something close to my heart. -
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Maximus, I promise you, I promise you I am not an agent, though I can now see how I may have given that opinion, I am a kitchen fitter by trade, and have been in building all my life, I didn’t join the forum to sell polaris, if I had wouldn’t you have expected me to defend kpw4v’s opinion of the investment potential of polaris, I didn’t only because I have very little knowledge of it, wouldnt that make me a pretty bad agent?
I am a buyer on polaris, and someone made a comment which made me hit the panic button, all I was looking for was clarification. -
Maximus, I promise you, I promise you I am not an agent, though I can now see how I may have given that opinion, I am a kitchen fitter by trade, and have been in building all my life, I didn’t join the forum to sell polaris, if I had wouldn’t you have expected me to defend kpw4v’s opinion of the investment potential of polaris, I didn’t only because I have very little knowledge of it, wouldnt that make me a pretty bad agent?
I am a buyer on polaris, and someone made a comment which made me hit the panic button, all I was looking for was clarification. -
The problem is that there has recently been some ‘newies’ to the forum who, when they see a posting they don’t agree with, instead of simply offering a ‘I disagree because….’ and then offering constructive mature comments/contributions, they start criticising the people who wrote, making it all ‘personal’.
I have seen many other forums where there are endless pages of personal ‘tit for tat’ postings that certainly go ‘off topic’, and with a few exceptions, generally this forum is very good with its contributors staying ‘on topic’.
Mainly because we have a good moderator/administrator of the forum in Mark.
This all started with Katy having her point of view, and it immediately slid into a ‘personal attack’ situation.
If one disagrees with a posting, surely we are all adult enough to reply without being rude or offensive.
On a forum such as this – it would be very boring if everyone had exactly the same opinion.
Rather like the ‘political’ or ‘religious’ debate, why do some people get so excited if not everyone agrees with their point of view? -
The problem is that there has recently been some ‘newies’ to the forum who, when they see a posting they don’t agree with, instead of simply offering a ‘I disagree because….’ and then offering constructive mature comments/contributions, they start criticising the people who wrote, making it all ‘personal’.
I have seen many other forums where there are endless pages of personal ‘tit for tat’ postings that certainly go ‘off topic’, and with a few exceptions, generally this forum is very good with its contributors staying ‘on topic’.
Mainly because we have a good moderator/administrator of the forum in Mark.
This all started with Katy having her point of view, and it immediately slid into a ‘personal attack’ situation.
If one disagrees with a posting, surely we are all adult enough to reply without being rude or offensive.
On a forum such as this – it would be very boring if everyone had exactly the same opinion.
Rather like the ‘political’ or ‘religious’ debate, why do some people get so excited if not everyone agrees with their point of view? -
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It certainly has gone off topic. It’s seems to have run out of steam and turned to bickering, which means it’s time to lock the thread.
Please try to resist bickering in the forum. It dilutes the good content, which this forum is otherwise bursting full of. If you must bicker, then do it by private message (PM). All contributors are part of the creative process that makes this forum what it is, so please do your bit to ensure that this forum remains the biggest and best source of information on Spanish property there is.
One last point. There is no ‘closed shop’ here. Everyone can post on an equal footing, and gets read in equal measure. Minority opinions are most welcome. All you have to do is present a good case to support your opinion.
Mark
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It certainly has gone off topic. It’s seems to have run out of steam and turned to bickering, which means it’s time to lock the thread.
Please try to resist bickering in the forum. It dilutes the good content, which this forum is otherwise bursting full of. If you must bicker, then do it by private message (PM). All contributors are part of the creative process that makes this forum what it is, so please do your bit to ensure that this forum remains the biggest and best source of information on Spanish property there is.
One last point. There is no ‘closed shop’ here. Everyone can post on an equal footing, and gets read in equal measure. Minority opinions are most welcome. All you have to do is present a good case to support your opinion.
Mark
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- The topic ‘Polaris World’ is closed to new replies.
