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As I have come to realise this forum is a wonderful resource for anyone buying a property or recently moved to Spain.
For those who are still considering dipping their toes in the water, how about we provide them with some positive feedback. There are plenty of postings and threads where they can find umpteen reasons not to buy/move to Spain and these postings are valid and necessary.
Perhaps a thread where people can look for the many plus points to living in Spain or have we all forgoten why we came here in the first place. If its not encouraging say it in a different thread.
Jim
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@jiminspain wrote:
As I have come to realise this forum is a wonderful resource for anyone buying a property or recently moved to Spain.
For those who are still considering dipping their toes in the water, how about we provide them with some positive feedback. There are plenty of postings and threads where they can find umpteen reasons not to buy/move to Spain and these postings are valid and necessary.
Perhaps a thread where people can look for the many plus points to living in Spain or have we all forgoten why we came here in the first place. If its not encouraging say it in a different thread.
Jim
Hi Jim
That would be great. We understand that there are pros and cons to everywhere but hopefully the pros outweigh the cons for most people, so yes, let’s hear them before we all abandon hope of a new beginning!
Bopsy -
Hi Jim
excellent idea. I for one love living in Spain and am glad I made the move. My only regret is that I didnt do it sooner.
The people are firendly, the climate obviously is a bonus and the lifestyle is great. Even the process of buying – although at the time I thought the agents werent very professional they did at least (in most cases) try their best to do what they could with one or two exceptions.
Since that time I have met some very nice poeple from all nationalities and walks of life = even the English people here have a completely different attitude to life than they do at home, more chilled out and relaxed.
One of the things which sticks in my mind a lot about life here in Spain is just how little people care about what you do, what you earn or what car you drive. The Spanish really are family orientated and long may it persist. The firast question asked normallyt by Spanish people is about your family, do you have children etc. I am alwyas asked about my parents, sister and son whenever I meet Spanish Friends and they just cannot do enopugh to help out.
One of my good friends here is a car dealer. I have helped him out previously with Englsih clients, brought him people who want to buy a car, and generally recommend him for his services because I know that anyone of the people Ihave recommended have had nothing but very high priase of him for the way he looks after them. And since I have known him he usually does my mothers car for her and charges her cups of coffee and bottles of whisky.
My parents neighbours often invite us round for paella on Sunday with the family – an enormous 25 people round for dinner and if we habppen to have visitors no problem they are automatically invited around too.
I am sure there are many such stories abound which help add to the richness of living here in SPain, and if anyone is reading this, even if you have had problems in buying a house, it is worth the pain in the long run. For every horror story there are hundreds of success stories and whilst I think this forum is a great place for people to share their experiences – good and bad it is generally when things go wrong that people vent their frustration, so perhaps we need to redress the balance somewhat.
Good luck to everyone on this forum who lives or wants to live in Spain. It is a great place to lve and if you can live with a few pecliarities and recognise that the attitude here is different, then yu shouldn’t go far wrong
Disfruta
Vince
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Hi Vince
I agree entirely, bit of an initial culture shock but once you settle in it is hard to beat.
I think one of the real plus points in Spain is that they still have very strong family values, when did you last see a teenager in the Uk eating walking sitting and talking with their grandparents.
Fiestas are a delight and again the participation of young people makes it all the more enjoyable, local fiestas are proudly held on to by all the population they are real and passionate not just something done to appease the tourists.
There are no gangs of threatening hoodies hanging on street corners looking for the next kick, despite the appartent lack of things to amuse themselves Spanish youngsters albeit sometimes noisy (think the take the bafflers from their scooter exhaust) seem a contented bunch.
By far the biggest factor for me though is that as an eleven year old we are happy for our lad to play out often for many hours at a time and dont feel anxious all the while about, who he is with, what he is up too, etc, etc.
I often ask my son is he happy in Spain he allways replies yes and that he would not want to return to the UK, this obviously pleases me as I certainly wouldnt want to either.
If you come to Spain embrace it and enjoy it, try not to spoil it becuase its very nice as it is.
Jim
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I have collated a list of Facts and Trivia about Spain that we post on our website. Some of the stuff is interesting, some informative, and some just plain useless info. If you have anything else to add or think that some is incorrect please let me know-
The capital of Spain is Madrid (pop. 3,169,000). Spanish cities with more than 500,000 inhabitants include Barcelona, Málaga, Seville, Valencia and Zaragoza
Spain has now replaced France as the most popular holiday destination among Brits and many other North Europeans.
Thirteen of the 15 major North American oil and gas companies have Spanish management, control and information systems installed.
52.5 million tourists visit Spain
Spain, covering 194,898 square miles (504,782 square kilometers), is the second largest country in Western Europe
The population of Spain is 42 million
Over 98% of people are Roman Catholic
With a mean altitude of 600 metres. Spain is the second highest country in Europe after Switzerland
The 16th century Escorial palace of King Phillip II of Spain had 2673 doors?
The word Spain means the land of rabbits, They were really splitting hares on this one. Phoenician settlers found such an abundance of hares on the land, they named it after them. Only they mistook the hares for the hyraxes of Africa, and named it in a Canaanite dialect, which Latin-speaking Romans turned into Hispania. Down through the years it morphed into the Norman French Spagne, and then Spain
A common custom in Spain is to eat one grape for each of the last 12 seconds of every year for good luck
Life expectancy in Spain is 74.3 years for men and 81.6 years for women
Spain in the second most popular holiday destination in the world
In 1819, the USA purchased Florida from Spain for the cancellation of a $5 million debt.
The average property in Spain has been increasing at about 20% year on year
One in ten people in Spain are farmers
Spanish cities Madrid and Barcelona are the 53rd and 109th most populated cities in the world respectively.
5 million people will migrate to Spain. Over the next three to four years, the number of non-Spanish people living in Spain is predicted to increase from around 1.11 million (in 2001) to about 3 million by the end of the decade.
(Note: this is the estimate of ‘official immigrants’; another 3 million are predicted to make a permanent home in Spain without registering to live there).Origin of tapas:
When a glass of wine was ordered, a slice of ham was given to cover the glass to keep out insects. The word ‘Tapar’ means to cover
To unsuspecting tourists the Spanish language can catch them unawares with a number of words they think they will understand, however!!
Embarazada, has caused more than one misunderstanding, It means ‘pregnant’.
Constipación is no more serious than a ‘common cold’,
Decepción a ‘disappointment’.
Compromiso a ‘committment’ engaged couples are Comprometidos’.
Remover is not ‘to remove’, but ‘to stir’.
Suplir, a verb, means ‘to substitute’, not to ‘supply’.
Fastidioso is ‘bothersome’, not ‘fastidious’
Soportar is not ‘to support’, but to ‘suffer’ or ‘tolerate’ something.
Pretender doesn’t mean ‘to pretend’, but to ‘try’ or ‘aspire to’.
Molestar is to ‘annoy’ or ‘bother’, not to ‘molest’.
Exito is a ‘success’, not an ‘exit’ (which is ‘salida’)
Lectura is the act of ‘reading’, not a ‘lecture’.
Rape many an inspired menu translation! refers to ‘monkfish’ or ‘anglerfish’.
A Billón, in Spain, is still ‘a million x a million’.
Density of population is 79 inhabitants per square kilometer (205 per square mile)
There are more than 50 recognized wine producing districts in Spain
Spanish and English are in a virtual dead heat to be the second most spoken language in the world. Spanish has 332 million speakers, while English has 322 million
The oldest person ever to climb Everest was Ramon Blanco of Spain. He was 60 years and 160 days old. He reached the summit on October 7, 1993
There are more phones in New York City than there are in the whole of Spain
The number of Brits who own property abroad is set to double to a massive 4.4 million, according to the research by Barclays – and Spain remains the favourite destination.
The Tampa Bay Water Authority has selected a Spanish firm to repair, redesign and operate the Apollo Beach plant, the largest desalination facility in the U.S.
Six Spanish companies were among the top 10 private infrastructure-management companies of 2004, according to Public Works Financing, the leading industry magazine.
A Spanish company, Abengoa Bioenergy, is the second largest producer of bio-fuels in the world.
The guitar was invented in Andalusia in the 1790s when a sixth string was added to the Moorish lute.
Top 5 boy’s names: Alejandro, Jorge, Juan, Jose, Pedro.
Top 5 Girls names: Anna, Isabel, Nadia, Pilar, Nuria
Spain is the world’s second largest wine producer following France
The arts world in the early 20th century was influenced by a remarkable group of Spanish artists: Pablo Picasso, Juan Gris, Joan Miró and Salvador Dalí.
Philip, Prince of Calabria, the eldest son of Charles XIII of Spain, adored gloves so much that he often wore 16 pairs at a time.
The town of Bunol, near Valencia, hold an annual festival called ‘Tomatina.’ The festival occurs on the last Wednesday of the month of August. Up to 30,000 people have a huge food fight and throw in excess of 125,000 kilo’s of tomatoes at each other.
At 52 floors and 186metres, the Gran Bali Hotel in Benidorm is the tallest in Western Europe.
About 5.8 percent of the people who use the Internet speak Spanish, making it the No. 4 language in the Internet community.
Picasso’s full name was Pablo Diego Jose Francisco de Paula Juan Nepomuceno Maria de los Remedios Cipriano de la Santisima Trinidad Ruiz Picasso.
Spain is one of the worlds largest producers of cork.
Jim
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I agree fully with the remarks of the forum users about the people, culture. I have friends all over Spain and cannot say was ever been treated as an outsider irrespective of what socio-economical background the people I met were from.
I have been visting Spain since 1975 including small villages and can say that people treated me with effectionate curiosty and in small villages even the bar man would not charge me for drinks etc.
It is a shame that a very small number of peoples dishonest behaviour give the Country a bad name ( It should be noted that these people do not only target non spainiards their compatriots also fall foul)
Enjoy Spain and if it wasnt for the EU, we could not have the preveilage of doing so.
Salute
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I agree that there is room for positive stories too. BUT..beware that there are quite a few agents post on here and lots of stories of fantastic new developments blah blah would make it boring.
There are some wonderful aspects of living in spain and many people have a trouble free purchase. However, most people on this forum are looking for hard facts not trivia and estate agents blurb.
Spain is changing fast, its not all fiestas and having paella with the neighbours. I have lived here nearly 11 years and we had a house here a long time before that. Most of my neighbours are spanish and professional people. Do they spend their time visiting fiestas and letting the kids stay up late? Not on your life. Most of them do not mix with each other let alone the guiris (foreigners).
Its pretty much like any other country in Europe, same social problems. Just read the spanish newspapers every day and you may think you are back in the UK. Domestic violence, illegal immigrants. low wages, teenage crime, and I suppose that you have heard of the botellín? During my time here I have noticed that the ones who return to the UK after 2 or 3 years are the ones who had the rosiest glasses 🙂
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@jiminspain wrote:
Hi Vince
I agree entirely, bit of an initial culture shock but once you settle in it is hard to beat.
I think one of the real plus points in Spain is that they still have very strong family values, when did you last see a teenager in the Uk eating walking sitting and talking with their grandparents.
Fiestas are a delight and again the participation of young people makes it all the more enjoyable, local fiestas are proudly held on to by all the population they are real and passionate not just something done to appease the tourists.
There are no gangs of threatening hoodies hanging on street corners looking for the next kick, despite the appartent lack of things to amuse themselves Spanish youngsters albeit sometimes noisy (think the take the bafflers from their scooter exhaust) seem a contented bunch.
By far the biggest factor for me though is that as an eleven year old we are happy for our lad to play out often for many hours at a time and dont feel anxious all the while about, who he is with, what he is up too, etc, etc.
I often ask my son is he happy in Spain he allways replies yes and that he would not want to return to the UK, this obviously pleases me as I certainly wouldnt want to either.
If you come to Spain embrace it and enjoy it, try not to spoil it becuase its very nice as it is.
Jim
Hi Jim where in CB are you and how long have you been living permanently in Spain for now? Are there many Brits in CB? We have 2 kids 9 and 11 and it would be nice to be in an area where at first there are other English speaking kids. Thanks Bopsy
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A thread was started in similar vein back in June called “No moaning minnies allowed”.
http://www.spanishpropertyinsight.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=964&highlight=moaning+minnies+allowed
Many of the contributors to that thread basically missed the point – this is a ‘General Forum’ for buying, owning and selling property in Spain (see index).
It is natural that more people come on this forum who have problems and need help and advice, than people who have a ‘great ride’ through the whole process, and don’t need help and advice.
Remember that all the ‘moaning minnies’ who have had one heck of a time in trying to buy a property in Spain (like myself) fully appreciated all the wonderful aspects of Spain long ago – hence their decision to purchase there in the first place.
To try and convince people Spain is a very special place to live is not the point – but trying to help those who have tens of thousands of pounds (or more) tied up with rogue developers and/or who are not enjoying the experience of a dream home is worthwhile.
Unfortunately, the law in Spain is being flouted by many people in ‘the business’, and aided (to me – unbelievably) by many in the legal profession. All this much to the despair of too many unsuspecting (often retired) purchasers. Besides not helping the image of this wonderful country, the situation is causing untold misery and stress. If the poor lady who was driven to suicide perhaps had more advice and support with her Aifos purchase, would things have turned out differently? We’ll never know.
But I for one don’t care how many ‘moaning minnies’ there are on this forum. If their stories. and the advice that often follows, helps others – that can only be a good thing. And long may it last….
And sharing news items as and when it breaks ? Well, this site is sometimes ahead of Reuters!!
(see post where Katy could see circling helicopters out of her window …. can’t get better than that!) 😉Barbara
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Katy,
Why do you assume everyone who posts positive comments are agents ????
I am not now and never have been. Know a few though…as does anyone who lives in Spain and believe in speaking as I find. Or is that wrong ?
Appreciate the purpose of this forum is sorting problems but sometimes a little ray of sunshine gives HOPE…..and I don’t mean selling fantastic new developements where off plan buying is a supposed licence to print money !!!!!!!!!!! 😆You admit to living in Spain for 11 years so if it’s that bad why are you still there?`Surely you can give some good reports
My area of Spain is in total contrast to yours.` Still like the old days. Friendly neighbours and shopkeepers .Bar owners who buy you a drink and go out of there way to help…
……….but then perhaps you don’t believe me !!! 😯 -
Have I ever said that my life here is bad? No problems but I do know many people who have, hence my interest in the forum and in fair play. I quite like the area I live and wouldn’t want to move anywhere else in Spain (would save me a lot of money if I did).
I didn’t infer that you were an agent but I do know a lot of the members are. There are many other forums for chatting about the usual stuff (I contribute to one myself) but this one is not always the correct medium. Presently no tourist area is immune from the problems that the CDS has including Murcia, Alicante, Valencia and the costa de la luz (viz other forums). No place is ever ALL good. Do you want this forum to turn into one where everyone posts to congratulate each other and vie with one another as to who is living in the cheapest area including the scammer agents writing about paella parties and gin tonics on the terrace? Why would I want to sit writing about my day to day life here? I could start a blog if I wanted to do that.
I do try to contribute if I hear (or see) anything happening locally and unfortunately its almost always bad news, thats beyond my control.
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OK I guess that failed then, I was just trying to bring some balance to the debate, there are ample threads were people can find out about all the horror stories which I do not deny exist, but where do people find the other side of the coin, if the intention of the forum is to make any prospective buyer in Spain run a mile then it is probably succeding. I for one feel that on balance spain is by far a better place to live and certainly to bring up children. As for fiestas and way of life, I can only talk from experience in our village only (10 mins from the coast) poulation 5,000 people sit outside their doors talking and sociallising until the wee hours, neighbours and local business owners often come into the office to talk (in my case attempt to speak Valenciano), and our local fiesta which lasts for a week with bull running, processions, marching bands, the wake up fireworks at 8am the list is endless. Oh well I guess the CBN is different to the CDS, hope it stays that way.
Jim
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Melosine, have you tried http://www.viva-almeria.com it may be the sort of forum that would interest you (know its not Murcia but very similar area) 🙂
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i feel i have to jump in here too
i have lived north and south in spain, and they are two worlds apart, galicia was so friendly , people cant do enough for you and are so humble, people on the CDS are just very different and normally seem to be unfriendly etc etc
however i love the country as a whole , and the weather, WOW, isnñt it fantastic, I´m from Swansea where it is raining as we speak and I think winter has already set it, nice 😀
Anyway, apart from rambling and being generally non concise, i have to say that threads on this site would scare you off if you were thinking of coming here which is a shame. im not saying there are no trouble in spain, far from it, however if you want to , you only have to look at london and the bombing to realise it could be a lot worse here, and you could be losing friends or limbs, rather than money.
and before you say it, im not tyring to say that all the money people have tied up is not a terrible thing, and i know it can cause great heartache and health problems etc, i know myself , however i got conned by a londoner buying a car, not in the same league as the hundreds of thousand s other people have tied up, but a penny for person is a pound for another
LETS TELL PEOPLE ABOUT THE GREAT THINGS OF SPAIN , AFTER ALL WE CAME HERE FOR A REASON….. IT´S A BETTER PLACE!
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Thanks Katy,
Know the forum already and other such “chatty” forums. 🙄
Sent many a folk in despair onto this one because it deals with advice ,not hearsay, but still think that any positive posting shouldn’t be taken out of context and berated.Those of us who have relocated to the more Spanish Spain ,of which there are many, enjoy the fiestas and friendliness that abounds amongst the working class Spaniard .
I sometimes get the impression that CDS is Spain…when it is only a small part of it.
Thanks again for your imput
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I agree there could be a bit more balance but not sure what the format could be 😕 If someone posts about their fantastic life on here it could look like boasting to a lot of people who have serious problems. We have bought and sold several times without problem but I would find it useful to be forwarned with info’ from this forum were I to buy again (and give my Lawyer a list of things to do ❗ )
There are places here in andalucia that had charm and since Brits have bought there a lot of anti British feeling has surged. At first the locals welcome the economic input but them they realise the pitfalls, rising house prices, foreign kids in schools etc. Its the same all over the world, I know of villages in England where you are regarded as a stranger after 20 or more years.
I don’t want to sound like a know-all but I spent a year at uni in sevilla and I am familiar with most parts of spain and its not like the estate agents blurb, they are selling a lifestyle. Ther are nice areas and there are some I would term as sink-holes, just as there are good and not so good spanish people.
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I agree Katy, I know there are good and bad, just that sometimes and understandably why, the forum seems all bad. Perhaps there should be a seperate forum within this site where people can go to find good info and news to get a more balanced view about their choice to possibly buy and live in Spain, I repeat again this site is a valuable resource and the info contained needs to be made public, but we are sharing experiences and we should share both good and bad.
Jim
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I am sure everyone agrees this site is more informative not like the others and the bonus of having free legal is paramount not to mention your up to date imput on building concerns in your area.
But sometimes in non legal matters we need to read the pro’s as well as the con’s. As with the discusion on agents fees. There are always two sides to every story . Admit sometimes it’s black and blacker though.
NOT talking about REA’S and blatent advertising.The more we all learn the more help and redirection can be given to others towards the correct procedures even if it means redirection to another area of Spain and how life is lived there.
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to Spain and Jiminspain –
Forgive me if I am missing something here, but this forum is ‘reasonably’ specific. The title of the forum gives a clue: Spanish Property Insight
Re. this ‘General Forum’, on the index page it says:
General Forum
Ask the forum any questions you have about buying, owning and selling property in Spain.So surely the fact that people mainly post questions re. buying, owning and selling property (with admittedly sometimes the odd horror story thrown in) – it is because that is what this forum is about.
Asking the forum questions about property!Get it? SPANISH PROPERTY INSIGHT FORUM
No-one is trying ‘to scare’ anyone – 🙄 – they are simply trying to find answers to their questions.
If their questions are ‘scary’ it is because there is a lot of scary stuff going on in the property business in Spain at present.And why is this forum even necessary? The root of a lot of the problems I read on this forum, and the pm’s I receive, is because people trusted their lawyers to safeguard them during the purchasing process. To protect them against illegal builds and illegal contracts, they trusted them to acquire the necessary legal paperwork like Bank Guarantees, to advise them correctly re. legal matters and give support when things go wrong.
Read through most of these threads, and nearly all the problems track back to a certain group of lawyers not acting in their client’s interest in the first place.
A good lawyer does not allow his/her client to be exposed to illegal clauses in contracts biased towards the developer, lack of protection re. monies paid by not obtaining Bank Guarantees, ill-advising to complete without a LFO despite all the problems that could ensue, and the best one?…when things go wrong – suddenly telephone calls and e-mails go unanswered. The list is endless, but the problems just mention above get repeated time and time again. Oh, and giving phoney (‘false’) legal advice.
For me, for every corrupt developer involved in the latest CDS scandal, there is a corrupt lawyer involved somewhere along the line that allowed their client to be involved in the first place.
I will go so far as to say there is blatant conspiracies between some lawyers and developers.
Our case is an example – our original lawyer, after 2 years of our pushing, finally obtained a Bank Guarantee for us.
Great, you may think – but no. Our building licence, unbeknown to us, had been suspended more than a year previously. We only found out ten more months down the line.
Our lawyer’s response when questioned? – “oh we knew nothing”.
What did we later find out? They had another client in the same development, and because he did find out about the revoked building licence, they were negotiating ‘a deal’ for him with the developer. This at the same time they were obtaining a BG for us, knowing the development was never going to be built!
This is a top international law firm with offices that would do the Hotel Intercontinental proud!!I’ve lost count of the number of people who pm me each week, wanting advice re. changing their lawyer, or telling me ‘lawyer horror stories’.
Fourteen purchasers on our development alone had to change lawyers, and these were just the ones I happen to know.If all lawyers were doing their jobs properly, there would be no need for forums like this. All questions would be answered by their lawyers, and all problems would be competently handled by their lawyers.
And the forum could be re-named ‘Spanish Insight’, where there could be lots of ‘good versus bad’ stories about life in Spain.BUT THIS IS NOT HAPPENING – HENCE A FORUM LIKE THIS WITH A LOT OF UNHAPPY PEOPLE WITH A LOT OF DESPERATE QUESTIONS.
Bit like a Citizen’s Advice Bureau – people only go there to ask questions and get advice when there is a problem to solve……
Or is it me who is missing something…….?
Barbara
P.S.Before anyone jumps down my throat, I am obviously not saying ALL lawyers are bad.
But there are many who are at the heart of the ‘situation’ that is existing in Spain at the moment, especially on the Costa del Sol.AMEN
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Barbara,
you are right, I am not trying to take that away from anyone.however, and i am not imagining this, there are a few “locals” on this site who will jump down the throat of any “newbie” who hits the site with the same opinions everytime, whether relevant or not, without trying to answer the question being asked, and they are always pessimistic and negative comments being posted.
you are right, people come on here wanting their question answered, but sometimes they only get DO NOT DO THIS/DO NOT DO THAT from certain people with bad experiences – which mostly isnt what they came asking for in the first place.
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Definition of forum “a public meeting or assembly for open discussion”
Surely issues of lifestyle, culture, location, schools, yes even the price of bread for some people are all relevant to the process of buying a Spanish property. Of course many people have serious issues no one denies that and the forum is invaluable to help people avoid possible pitfalls. At the end of the day this is just one small thread no one suggested that it should be the purpose of the site. If people want to ignore the thread then fine but if people want to make a positive posting then thats also fine.
I dont recall anyone claiming that people were trying to scare others, purely that the posting could be scary for those visiting this forum for the first time without any balance to the problems, changing a quote slightly from Churchill “a bad word get halfway around the world before a good word gets its pants on” make people aware yes but if we wish to make Spain and the CDS in particular sound like a place to avoid at all cost we will all end up with worthless pieces of real estate.
People are free within reason and within context to post what they want to say, read what they wish, or ignore what they wish, or should the forum just be a place to find out what not to do and who not to use without offering alternative experiences.
Yes I do get it!
Jim
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I am afraid I am with Jim on this one.
I am an agent and freely admit it (and perhaps you may feel that colours my advice somewhat), but like Katy, Charlie and many others offer advice where I think I can answer questions and add value.
It is right that people get their questions answered and have full facts before making a decision on purchasing a property in Spain – but that also includes the positive aspects as well as the negative ones.
Much has been said about buying off plan on the Costa Del Sol and how bad it all is, but there are many people who have bought off plan successfully (in CDS and other parts of Spain) and the developments have been legal, completed within time (or close to it) and been very few problems. Even dare I say the lawyers involved have looked after their clients as they should. It does happen and I would imagine it happens a lot mroe than the ones that go wrong.
But perhaps this is too rose tinted for some people to accept and maybe its only agent speak – after all we are only interested in a clients money and not in the client themselves and we are only selling them a lifestyle.
Of all the devlopments mentioned on this forum it amounts to a small percentage of the total new builds (even just on the CDS).
My heart goes out to anyone who is affected adversely by their purchase and it is situations like this that make the forum so valuable, but to allude that all Spain is the same and that anyone suggesting otherwise is an agent is hardly a balanced view.
There are two sides to every story and the truth lies somewhere in the middle, so it stands to reason that the positives and negatives should be allowed to be expressed – you should make your buying decision armed with all the facts – sometimes the positives far outweigh the negatives – sometimes not, but the person buying has to decide that. We are here to advise them. (I think)
So more of the positives about living in Spain from agents,people who just like living in Spain or those who have had a positive buying experience.
Perhaps we should start a thread named Postive buying experiences in Spain – tell your story here.
Best wishes
Vince
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STOP..right here folks….
Mark had already provided a place where people can get help on any matters. Legal or otherwise
It’s called;Settling in forum
Bought a place, just settling in, now you have 100s of questions that need answeringSo now those of us who desire to use it for the more mundane but necessary issues can use it.
Just an aside for those who are unaware what the CAB deals with ..it is everything..from benefits,legal advice,housing,tax to where to purchase a household item or get a plumber. Everything from A-Z and all areas inbetween because that’s how life works.
Hopefully we can now sort this once and for all
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I am with Jim too. is it really a problem if we want to discuss the price of chips and surely if that doesn’t get our interest we would simply move on to the next topic that does. Why are some fed up that we might add extra questions, is this a governed web site with strictly enforced items for discussion? If we are only to ask about buying and selling in Spain then please direct me to a forum for this and i will gladly look, I had just thought that one forum that covers all things was a better choice for people like myself who don’t want to log on to 10 websites for 10 topics!!
What a shame we have to be told exactly what to do, I had so far thought what a great idea the forum was, lots of people willingly giving up their free time to tell us about all issues that deal with buying and living in Spain that would be of great help but maybe it was too good to be true after all??
Bopsy ❓ -
Looks like I may have started something here….. so here goes 🙄
Jiminspain says: “I dont recall anyone claiming that people were trying to scare others…….”
Jim, when I wrote: “No-one is trying ‘to scare’ anyone – – they are simply trying to find answers to their questions”, I was just responding to the two posts below by you and Spain:
quote Spain: “……..i have to say that threads on this site would scare you off if you were thinking of coming here which is a shame”.
quote jiminspain: .”……..if the intention of the forum is to make any prospective buyer in Spain run a mile then it is probably succeding”.
Not sure quite what I have misunderstood there, but forward and on…..
Jim, you go on to say “……purely that the posting could be scary for those visiting this forum for the first time without any balance to the problems”.
Alright, so I should have written “No-one is trying ‘to scare’ anyone by their postings“.
Aren’t we nit-picking just a little bit there, Jim?
Also I personally can’t see where the ‘balance’ can come in very often, when someone for example is worried because suddenly their lawyer is not answering their e-mails or phone calls for nearly two months despite there being a horrendous problem going on.
What exactly can the balance be to that? Lots of people writing in saying “Oh my lawyer always replies by return… 😀 “.
Is that going to help balance anything for that particular person?There are some (negative) postings that just can’t be ‘balanced’ by others posting ‘positively’ who don’t have that particular problem.
Just my opinion.Hope that clears that one up (am beginning to feel like Chris on the Estate Agents Fees thread…..).
I never want to post by misquoting, so hope I have explained myself on that particular sentence.Jim (sorry to keep quoting you!) you say: “surely issues of lifestyle, culture, location, schools, yes even the price of bread for some people are all relevant to the process of buying a Spanish property”. Absolutely, and I would be the last one to disagree with you. But this forum is split into 3 sections, and as Melosine says – there is a “Settling in Forum” for exactly these type of topics.
So Bobsy, no it isn’t a problem at all if you want to discuss the price of chips. But as you are new to this forum, you have now just learnt which section you can go to, to do just that – am sure there are many waiting for your contribution.
You see, it is a wonderful forum – different sections to cater for all topics.
The reason for the different sections? Bank Guarantees and chips don’t mix 😉
Just take a look at all the threads on the General Forum – 99% of them are all legal issues.
I cannot see one that vaguely resembles “Anyone know the price of chips in Barcelona?”.You ask “is this a governed web site with strictly enforced items for discussion”?
Well actually, Bobsy, it is. The Administrator, Mark, monitors the forum very closely to keep each section ‘on topic’ (as well as editing out all the rubbishy spam, abusive posts, etc.). Am afraid if you let fly a new thread on the General Forum about the price of chips, he would politely guide you to the Settling In Forum.
You say “What a shame we have to be told exactly what to do” – sorry, but ‘thems the rules’, and personally speaking – thank goodness for them.Lastly, you say: “I had so far thought what a great idea the forum was, lots of people willingly giving up their free time to tell us about all issues that deal with buying and living in Spain that would be of great help but maybe it was too good to be true after all??”.
No, it is not too good to be true – that is exactly what this forum is about. Myself and many many others believe this forum is one of the best of it’s kind. We are lucky enough to also have lawyers who regularly contribute to help people on legal issues. For many, including myself, the help given here has been invaluable, in gaining knowledge, advice and support.
And yes, lots of people do give up a lot of free time to contribute here – more than you’ll ever know – both on the forum and via the forum’s pm’s, to help where they can. And have been doing so for a very long time.
And it is not just on legal issues. For example a lot of advice/information on different areas of Spain is given by people already living there which can be invaluable.So please, don’t come on here accusing some of being ‘fed up’ that you might have extra questions. Am afraid you really don’t know what you are talking about…..all questions and postings are welcome.
I just suggest you take a little time to read the opening page of the forum, and you will discover where you can pose them appropriately.
Barbara
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Thanks for answering that Barbara. I have in fact read the opening page and can see the section that says “bought a place, settling in and lots of questions etc” but that does not apply to me. I have not bought yet
Where do i go to ask about locals and the price of chips!!!??? I am new as you say and may be going off in the wrong direction. Someone please please tell me the price of chips!!!! 😆 -
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Bopsy, until you have an interest in a property in Spain then you wouldn’t to see or ask the mundane questions on “settling in” forum , but if you did then hopefully someone would be able to answer or direct you to a site that can. But possibly you would hope to see pertinant postings re utlities tax , health issues etc…. so let’s bin the bread and put the gin back in the bottle !!!!!
It may appear I am backtracking,but I am not.
I first joined this site before the awful saga’s of CDS was posted. Since then both this fantastic site and CDS problems have gathered momentum and has been highlighted in national press worldwide.
In my opinion replies sometimes reflect , understandably so, the unhappiness,frustration and anguish of those whose dreams have temporarily soured and impression is that CDS is Spain ALL Lawyers,except those recommended on list are crooks and ALL REA’s should be locked up.
If I had gone through some of these problems I would be far from happy myself at least until situation resolved and maybe infintum nevertherless.Truth is if I were to be looking to relocate to Spain now, I would most certainly feel I was entering an “abandon all hope “mission reading the postings.
It’s not that the advice and info is anything but excellant but rather,as I personally read it, stated in a doom and gloom “DON’T” rather than “It is advisible” mode
A simple refrasing of a sentence and the comment is not so negative, albeit the correct one, but human nature being what it is so often posters are seeking what they want to hear not the sound logical advice and will ,and do, post same question on muliple forums in their quest.However it is not up to me, or anyone ,to tell another what or how to write anything on an ” GENERAL forum ” and by the same token I trust ,we may agree to disagree, that all are allowed to have an opinion on what we are reading and discuss like the adults we are whose ONLY purpose here is to attempt to assist and redirect people with concerns…be they grave or otherwise.
Laws are interperated and acted upon differently according to the location in Spain and how Valencia and CDS use the law can be different to Murcia ,Almeria et al. and ,where pertinant , maybe this should be reflected in the advice.
Of for a very late breakfast now.
Cheers l -
Barbara Wrote
“Also I personally can’t see where the ‘balance’ can come in very often, when someone for example is worried because suddenly their lawyer is not answering their e-mails or phone calls for nearly two months despite there being a horrendous problem going on.
What exactly can the balance be to that? Lots of people writing in saying” “Oh my lawyer always replies by return… “. 😀
Is that going to help balance anything for that particular person?Whilst I sympathise with everyone that has lost money, sleep, or hair due to the problems that can sometimes be experienced when buying property, surely this is everything in perfect balance one person has a bad solicitor one person has a good one, everyone needs to know about both, the forum is carrying out its function amd providing an alternative to the one causing problems or providing bad service.
The settling in forum is not the place for positive informative type of comments, that is where people ask questions post purchase not pre, its no good saying to someone after they have experienced the same problems as us “I could have told you not to go there” we should also tell them where or how perhaps they should consider purchasing.
Its no good for us to only tell people “don’t use that developer” “don’t use that solicitor” “don’t use that estate agent” “don’t go to that Area” we should also suggest “consider that developer” “consider that solicitor” “consider that estate agent” “consider that Area”, “this is good” “that is good” etc etc.
If members will not post positive good news and info because they worry about upsetting other members then all the information vital to prospective purchasers to ensure they do not make the same mistakes as us will never be published, without sound positive advice they may head for the hills and heaven forbid buy in France.
Ok here is the big but, regardless of anything that we have all said in previous post the real issue is! This is an open forum where people can post within the rules of the forum which certainly all our post have been whatever our opions are, it has stimulated discussion, debate, and information, more importantly and I guess that was the point of the thread in the first place, it demonstrates to new members and visitors that our opinions perceptions and experiences are not all the same.
Jim
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‘Why are we here?’
Responding to the title of this thread, but not perhaps its intent.Many of us are here, on this forum, because we have been badly bitten by our experiences of purchasing property in Spain and we hope to prevent others from suffering in the same way. It’s not the easiest of decisions – we know that by telling our stories on an open forum we leave ourselves wide open to accusations of being stupid, naive, brainless, greedy etc. and certainly those comments have been made on several threads.
The reason this forum is so successful is that buying in Spain is such a lottery. You may be lucky, you may not. And much of it really is right down to luck and not good judgement. The people who contribute to this forum mainly give the impression of being adult, educated, informed and articulate and yet many have been caught out by the ‘system’ in Spain. Not because the law does not exist but because it is not implemented. I believe that we are the tip of the iceberg. For every member of this forum who highlights a development with problems there are probably several hundred other purchasers in the same development who are not as yet even aware that the problems exist.
It has been shown over and over again on this board that there is no foolproof way to guarantee safety in purchasing off-plan as the system is implemented at present. If the ‘legal system’ as represented by lawyers, notaries (and I do believe that notaries could be the key to resolving many of the problems) and the Guardia Civil worked then there would be little room for corrupt developers, REAs and local government officials.
But it doesn’t work all the time and it doesn’t work often enough. Until it does work, until the people who are supposed to provide the safeguards actually do their job, this forum is right to warn people to be wary.
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Melosine
I agree completely and thanks for your comnets, I had started to have those pre move jitters, more so as a result of reading this forum, but as you imply I would much rather be for warned and able to make potentially wiser decisions in view of what I had read on the forum and I am not stupid(as was implied after I had written a posting on the wrong forum, silly me, slapped wrists and all that!!!) so realise there will be both pros and cons. I suppose I was just a bit ticked off to get comments like “you don’t know what you are talking about” from some members when they could have said “fair question but these might be better posted on the “settling In forum”
Far too many hormones on the site maybe!!!
I might be in the wrong place on the forum, but hopefully it’s not the end of the world and I have been very grateful for the comments and interesting facts of people like Melosine, jiminspain and many others. Nervously hoping no one is offended!!!! Bopsy -
@jiminspain wrote:
Its no good for us to only tell people “don’t use that developer” “don’t use that solicitor” “don’t use that estate agent” “don’t go to that Area” we should also suggest “consider that developer” “consider that solicitor” “consider that estate agent” “consider that Area”, “this is good” “that is good” etc etc.
Jim
Actually Jim, we do also suggest/recommend solicitors, agents etc. – but a lot of correspondence goes on behind the scenes via pm’s.
As Melosine well knows, recommendations of – for example, lawyers – do go on behind the scenes. And anyway, a lot of naming and shaming cannot go on publicly on the forum (Mark, the site Administrator has been threatened by court action in the past) –
so please do know Jim that a lot of ‘good stuff’ goes on off-screen.Having said that, if you go through past threads on the General Forum, you will often find people posing questions re. what do you think of this area, this development, has anyone heard of this firm of lawyers etc., and in nine out of ten cases, there will replies the same day from people with varying opinions/experiences.
The forum does work well – the proof of the pudding? Many many times you will see posted words to the tune of “oh, I wish I had found this forum before” and “I have learnt so much from the forum”.
As an information tool for many, I believe the forum is successful.
Unfortunately, many people (and I include myself in this) did not have a clue about the purchasing process in Spain when they went ‘shopping’. I had certainly never heard of a Bank Guarantee, let alone my legal rights, and certainly most of the (illegal) clauses in my contract were just gobbledy-gook to me at the time.
A year down the line, and I have even had people send me copies of their contract to decipher what they have actually signed up to – (their lawyers often send them an English translation that doesn’t match!). This is all part of the positive aspects of the forum that maybe isn’t seen, but I assure you it does go on.As far as worrying about this forum not airing “sound positive advice” – just read some of the threads – there is plenty of that.
And “....ensuring they do not make the same mistakes” is for the greater part, what this forum is all about.I am genuinely pleased that for you, your experience and life in Spain is such a positive one. And of course I have no problem with people posting positive comments.
I just sometimes feel that people who have only negative/worrying stuff to write about are viewed as ‘doom and gloomers’.Having been, admittedly, a ‘doom and gloomer’ myself when I was embroiled in a Spanish court action in connection with my purchase, maybe I am a bit overzealous in supporting these type of posts. I know how valuable the replies received at the time were to me.
Continue to enjoy Spain Jim – I wish you well.
Barbara -
Quote Bobsy: “I suppose I was just a bit ticked off to get comments like “you don’t know what you are talking about” from some members when they could have said “fair question but these might be better posted on the “settling In forum”
Bobsy, when you wrote:
@Bopsy wrote:
Why are some fed up that we might add extra questions, is this a governed web site with strictly enforced items for discussion?
Bopsy ❓
…perhaps you should have been a little less ‘accusing’. I did not write I was fed up, you do not know me enough to know if I am fed up or not, hence my statement.
Yes, I could have said “fair question but these might be better posted on the “settling In forum” – but the politeness wouldn’t have matched the tone of your post. I’m afraid I found your whole sentence laced with a dash of sarcasm.
Barbara
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Hi EVERYONE
One thing hopefully I know we can agree on ,forum aside, is that none of us is perfect. If not please don’t start a new posting !! 🙄
What is wit to one is perceived as sarcasm to another. What one person can brush off another feels the need for retribution…that’s life unfortunately.I am sure none of us means to deliberately anger another but the written word comes across much harsher sometimes than the poster means it to. In fairness to the people here (too many so no names but me included) who try to help others . often without realising it ,the frustration kicks in hard when it is obvious that logical,sound advice is repeated constantly only to be questioned further and then likely ignored
We are just the amateurs,who through our own experiences good and bad offer to help. How the lawyers on this site must feel when assisting with FREE legal advice…I don’t think I want to know…. just VERY grateful to themBarbara, forgive my suggestion ,but would it not be preferable to advise those who pm you with dire problems to put their messages on this site ?
No two experiences are exactly the same and some don’t even express themselves well so one is never quite sure WHAT the problem is initially.Just a suggestion
Cheers all
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 26, 2006 2:12 pm Post subject:
Hi EVERYONEOne thing hopefully I know we can agree on ,forum aside, is that none of us is perfect. If not please don’t start a new posting !! Rolling Eyes
What is wit to one is perceived as sarcasm to another. What one person can brush off another feels the need for retribution…that’s life unfortunately.I am sure none of us means to deliberately anger another but the written word comes across much harsher sometimes than the poster means it to. In fairness to the people here (too many so no names but me included) who try to help others . often without realising it ,the frustration kicks in hard when it is obvious that logical,sound advice is repeated constantly only to be questioned further and then likely ignored
We are just the amateurs,who through our own experiences good and bad offer to help. How the lawyers on this site must feel when assisting with FREE legal advice…I don’t think I want to know…. just VERY grateful to themBarbara, forgive my suggestion ,but would it not be preferable to advise those who pm you with dire problems to put their messages on this site ?
No two experiences are exactly the same and some don’t even express themselves well so one is never quite sure WHAT the problem is initially.Just a suggestion
excuse me but I dont remember giving you a proxy to vote on my behalf!
The forum is fine as it is, as other posters have pointed out its for PROPERTY questions. Its not a jolly happy place where you can make new friends to discuss your jolly friendly spanish neighbours who are such good friends of yours (yeah right!) If you want that go to A.com or one of the many GENERAL forums available on the net.
Personally I don’t care if people get insulted – it will teach them not to post illinformed junk or stupid self evident questions.
I for one (don’t speak for me on this board) like the “dire problems” you want Barbara to have PMed.
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I wrote;
my suggestion ,banushouse wrote;
excuse me but I dont remember giving you a proxy to vote on my behalf!EH !!!!! 😆 LOL
Am I losing the plot here…obviously my comprehension of the English language is going down hill ? 😯
Never realised that writing my suggestion was from anyone but me the poster..Melosine !!!!!
Didn’t realise your name was MY so sorryBanushouse wrote
I for one (don’t speak for me on this board) like the “dire problems” you want Barbara to have PMedI wrote
those who pm you with dire problems .
Must have had you in mind then when I suggested this to BarbaraThanks banushouse for giving me such a laugh
Enjoy this beautiful day
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Quote:.
Many of us are here, on this forum, because we have been badly bitten by our experiences of purchasing property in Spain and we hope to prevent others from suffering in the same way. It’s not the easiest of decisions – we know that by telling our stories on an open forum we leave ourselves wide open to accusations of being stupid, naive, brainless, greedy etc. and certainly those comments have been made on several threads.
unquote]Exactly, Tilly.
And this is also why sometimes people prefer to seek advice via pm’s. The last person who sent me one started by saying “I feel such a fool……”.Also pm’s are good in a situation where lawyers’ and developers’ names have to be mentioned, and in ‘certain circumstances’ people are hesitant to do this on the forum for legal reasons.
Banushouse – when I read the jibe about hormones I realised this thread had sunk to a level that was not for me, so have decided to bow out gracefully of this one – suggest you do the same.
However, am pleased to have found someone else who agrees that this forum is fundamently a property forum – and not a place for pages on how great life in Spain is. Was beginning to think I was the only one 🙄
Personally, I feel it rather rubs salt in the wounds of those who are on here needing help/advice because, as Tilly says, they have been ‘badly bitten’.
Though I appreciate not all, thankfully, are here for that reason.Meet you one-day on another thread? 😉
Barbara
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Sorry for keeping this thread going but i would like to say i agree with keeping the site for property info (with maybe an aside along the way)
as you know i’m new to the property search mallarky and there are many questions that i need to ask and there is nothing worse than trawling through pages of crap trying to find the info you need.
hope this doesn’t offend anyone but it’s my opinion and i fight anyone…………Chilly 8)
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 8:19 pm Post subject:
tapas,
jamón serrano
gambas al pil-pil
beautiful sunsets
nice people
sunny weather
cheap way-of-life
good standard of living
gazpacho
paella
morcilla de burgos
relaxed lifestyle compared to ther countries
tinto de veranoGood answer not sure about the Morcilla and you forgot Musica. 😛
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