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I guess British people do not buy as the Sterling is as valuable as toilet paper. Irish are in debt over their heads. Russian oligarch are becoming
bankrupt and Germans are afraid.Looking after 2 month to Kyero I see that there is mostly no change in price.
Is it because nobody cares anymore or people are,amazingly enough, still in the denial phase? -
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Hello Chris – nice to see you back after more than two years. At least you didn’t disappear in the Brazilian Rain Forest!
My immediate reaction to your comment is that if these two Spanish clients bought purely as a residence for them to move to, it need not necessarily mean it’s the “right time” to start buying in Spain. Buying in their own country can be ‘needs must’ as they’ve sold their current properties. Likewise with “right location”.
This is a very different scenario to expats with their ever-weaker sterling deciding to make the move to Spain (having achieved the near-impossible task of selling their UK house) or deciding to make a second-home investment.
Can you clarify the situation re. your Spanish clients’ decision to buy now – residence, investment, holiday home?
Always useful to know for your marketing purposes. 😉 -
Good morning Charlie and thank you for the welcome.
No, not quite in hiding just yet, having spent a number of years south of the equator in the Middle East before long years in Spain, you can now search for me in deepest North Yorkshire, where I do commute back and forth weekly to the CDS. And yes before anyone asks; that is through the front door of Malaga airport not by fast speed boat from Gibraltar.
As to the two Spanish client’s reasons for purchase:
My understanding from the limited detail I had yesterday was that both clients had bought solely for use, whether residence or holiday I am not sure, I could find out. But my guess was that it was for permanent use.
I doubt whether investment (in a short time scenario) had anything to do with it.
Price was apparently the simple key, alongside the location, this being Calahonda of all places, the coasts sometime described “Little Britain” and being an area where the upper regions have formed something of a concrete wall into the Mijas hills.
Now don’t get me wrong, I actually like Calahonda a lot, I lived there for 18 months or so when I first arrived on the coast in a lovely little development called Jardines de Calahonda, but it is not where I would have thought Spanish families would be buying.
I would not purport that it is necessarily the “right time” to start buying in Spain, I saw the question: Who is buying now? While posting an item on Katy’s thread, and I just happened to know of the two sales yesterday, so popped it on there.
This was indeed a different scenario in more ways than one, for instance the particular project is not one that would boast spectacular views or facilities, basically we are in fact talking poor views and no on site facilities, but this was not a deterrent, obviously the area and surrounding amenities hit the spot regardless for these clients.
And most importantly the price was right for them. They bought and one presumes were very happy to do so, and were off celebrating their purchase last night.
As for expat buyers, well that is another story, but you know some of them are still buying and for a variety of interesting reasons also.
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My Friend has had two viewings this week(after reducing it 225,000 below bank valuation). However, both were Spanish. Anyone buying in sterling would have to be very keen to move here right now.
There must be some sales though as some Agents seem to have a few reps so they must be earning……and a Russian entrepreneur has just bought Los Monteros Hotel 😆
Nice to see you back on the forum Chris, I think a lot of sellers may be looking from ideas from you how to kick-start the market 😉
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Some Irish are still in the market, I had viewing on a villa 10 days ago with one, mainly spanish collecting bargains but even so there is seemngly not a price limit, ie looking ar around 550,000 mark for an apartment, and a Finnish couple bought too.
Main reason is as a second home as opposed to residence.
Only connecting thread is the price! Gotta be low!
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Thanks Katy,
It is nice to be back; especially as I have a bit of time on my hands over the coming days and I can get to talk about Spain while looking out at grey skies until after Three Kings.
Well, your friends two Spanish viewings kind of adds to my information from yesterday and we have at least shown flosmichael that there is someone out there
As to your other point, yes I have a few ideas for sellers, always had more than a few actually, some have been good and some… well hands up they have been bad.
So long as I stay on the right side of not commercially posting I might let a few out as we go but I don’t know if they would be what people would expect me to say. In fact we might start the mother of all arguments, as I have just had a righteous debate and then downright row with a good friend of mine who is selling and thinks my advice is an outrage.
It is a kind of long story to post though, but it may help a few sellers and buyers too, everyone has to win in the end.
It starts with my friend having his property valued at €400,000 in early 2007 and me telling him to sell it today for around €230,000 and he won’t be any worse off.
Want to hear that one?
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@flosmichael wrote:
I guess British people do not buy as the Sterling is as valuable as toilet paper. Irish are in debt over their heads. Russian oligarch are becoming
bankrupt and Germans are afraid.Looking after 2 month to Kyero I see that there is mostly no change in price.
Is it because nobody cares anymore or people are,amazingly enough, still in the denial phase?I think there is still a market for Spanish property from the UK.
The exchange rate is not the main problem for buyers as, if the vendor is returning to the UK, an acceptable lower price for the property can be negotiated so neither vendor or buyer loses out.
The major problem is, getting the buyers property sold in the UK to release funds.
I am certain there is a market for Spanish properties building up in the UK.
Time will tell when the UK property market begins to move again.
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Charlie a real classic.
Hello Chris – nice to see you back after more than two years. At least you didn’t disappear in the Brazilian Rain Forest! 😆 😆 😆Well .Had this email yesterday from a friend of a friend
Someone thats supposed to be in the know has just paid 3m Euros for a property in Elviria thats in need of.
Now he is confident enough to buy this property at this price as building licences are almost impossible to get there.
His big gamble is that he will get planning to develop this building
However at the moment he is having a massive problem with getting the go ahead because of the past problems in Marbella and if he fails then he looses around 2.5 M.
Thats one hell of a gamble now either this guy is a complete idiot or?
Malaga is expanding to accomodate a very different client base .
Thousands of Brits are going to have to bail out on court cases they cant win or afford legal fees or mortgage payments because of the exchange rates.
They of course lose 30/40/50/60/70% deposits and someone bags a bargain.
My reply to who is going to buy now is anyone really apart from the British or anyone with a currency thats going tits up.Regards
Just Frank 8)Great to see your posting Chris.
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Unfortunately Chris some agents are still at it misleading people.
I was in a restaurant recently near Malaga and a couple, husband and wife team, were lying through their teeth to an unfortunate British couple, mainly about capital growth, flipping, rental return etc and they were falling for it, that is until I stepped in to warn them.
More regulation is desperately needed in Spain and elsewhere to restore some credibility but the IMO corrupt Spanish Gov’t can’t bring themselves to do that because of their own greed.
Do you know if Ocean Estates has left Spain yet for Thailand because that would be good for Spain? 😉
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Hi,
All very valid Im sure, however the way to kick start the Spanish market for brits is simple.
Bite the bullet and despatch all those who lied and cheated to prison where they belong.
Recompence the victims and brits will return.
This will also stimulate the building industry as more prisons will need to be built. -
€400 to €230 is not much of a reduction for us brits is it?
€400 was about £280 2 years ago.
€230 is about £230 now.
I would start buying at a 50% discount in sterling.
Wake me up when he’s accepting €140k.
Up ’til then i’ll be happy renting and renegotiating rents, if i move over.
There will be plenty of aged brits forced to sell over the next 2 years as the exchange rate and ailments force repatriation.
I’m only interested in Forced seller pricess. The others (as in UK) will not bother selling and wait for a few years. The sellers’ strike in the UK (look at houses withdrawn from sale) has only just begun.
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ashtondav wrote:€400 to €230 is not much of a reduction for us brits is it?
I would start buying at a 50% discount in sterling.
quote]I wouldn’t hold your breath then ashtondav. Sterling is far too weak a currency to be using in Europe. Spanish property sellers are not looking to the British market to make a sale as, no matter how desperate they are to sell, they will not give away their lifetime investment just because the UK pound is worthless.
I wish I could suggest another market for you to buy an overseas property but, right now, the UK pound has no influence anywhere in the world.
edited due to spelling error.
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FWIW I am still looking to buy, but the market here is still tough for us buyers. So much of what is for sale is just crap (badly built, badly situated etc). But we are seeing some more sensible pricing in a few areas now.
I have a few friends that would like to buy, but at the moment most are not even looking. We are looking for our primary residence.
As for bargains, no there are not many of them about. Most of the big reductions are still based on fantasy starting prices, and few are truly “priced to sell”. Of course the sellers think they are giving them away 🙄
It’s a shame, ’cause I know many sellers are hurting, and they just don’t understand how a house can be worth 30% less at was advertised 18 months ago.
In the areas where prices are still way too high, it seems that it is where prices are set by a few British agents. Areas with a Spanish agent or two are much nearer to reality.
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The reality is, many Spanish property owners (even retired ones) have mortgaged and re-mortgaged to survive the past 2 years, just as people have done in the UK.
It is therefore quite obvious that they cannot give-away that which they do not own.
For those sellers who do not have a mortgage, or perhaps only a small one, they are not so desperate to sell and will sit-out the market until they can get near to their price.
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Fair points, but I think you are missing an important factor here. I know many retired Brits have had enough, and as I heard a lady say to her agent the other day “I just wanna go home”.
For these people the devaluation of sterling is a real advantage (while it lasts, and if they sell).
The problem as I see it is that many are not really in touch with what is happening, they have some idea that it is a buyers market. But, what they do not appreciate so well is the scale of the problem. For example, someone who bought 18 months ago at 320K cannot see why trying to sell at 280K is failing to attract buyers.
Another issue LOCATION, a lot of property was sold that appealed to expats (mainly Brits). In some cases this property is of interest to Spanish buyers, as there is work in the area. However, many urbs are in the middle of nowhere. Frankly, these sellers are between a rock and a hard place.
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@Peter Good wrote:
The reality is, many Spanish property owners (even retired ones) have mortgaged and re-mortgaged to survive the past 2 years, just as people have done in the UK.
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Survive what? If they needed money to survive the last 2 years, what are they going to do in 2009-2010 when the economic situation will be incredubly bad?
Also, why would potential buyers care that the property owners have used their houses as piggy banks?
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@flosmichael wrote:
@Peter Good wrote:
The reality is, many Spanish property owners (even retired ones) have mortgaged and re-mortgaged to survive the past 2 years, just as people have done in the UK.
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Survive what? If they needed money to survive the last 2 years, what are they going to do in 2009-2010 when the economic situation will be incredubly bad?
Also, why would potential buyers care that the property owners have used their houses as piggy banks?
When people began re-financing in 2006/2007 – I don’t think anyone could predict it would get as bad as it has become in the last 6 months.
In relation to using ones house as a piggy-bank, if someone has an 80% mortgage secured on their property, they are not likely to be selling it at 50% of bank valuation!!
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@Peter Good wrote:
When people began re-financing in 2006/2007 – I don’t think anyone could predict it would get as bad as it has become in the last 6 months.
In relation to using ones house as a piggy-bank, if someone has an 80% mortgage secured on their property, they are not likely to be selling it at 50% of bank valuation!!
Only stupid people arrived to 80% mortgage by buying cars, desiner clothes and trips abroad (this applies to Spain, UK, USA or any other country in the world). If they can pay their mortage, then fine.
If not, then tough luck. -
@Paul wrote:
Unfortunately Chris some agents are still at it misleading people.
I was in a restaurant recently near Malaga and a couple, husband and wife team, were lying through their teeth to an unfortunate British couple, mainly about capital growth, flipping, rental return etc and they were falling for it, that is until I stepped in to warn them.
Hi Paul,
Well I think the agents are misleading themselves more than the clients in most normal cases, I don’t see much of a success story going forward for anyone who has that kind of presentation.
If these people were falling for that kind of ‘pitch’ then you do well to put them straight. What a shame though, that the agent had people sitting there in a restaurant near Malaga, and that is all they could talk to them about.
Because there in front of your eyes, were a couple who had come to buy a property in Spain, which is an answer in itself to the thread, that there are indeed real people out there looking to buy.
That much is good news I think.
@Paul wrote:
More regulation is desperately needed in Spain and elsewhere to restore some credibility but the IMO corrupt Spanish Gov’t can’t bring themselves to do that because of their own greed.
Do you know if Ocean Estates has left Spain yet for Thailand because that would be good for Spain? 😉
A certain degree of legislation has been brought in to be fair.
I expect there will be more.
But after 20 years I also begin to despair sometimes.
Yet I really can’t help but love Spain and as when I was in the Middle East I tend to just accept some things for the way they are. When in Rome… Life is too…
Everything has moved on incredibly over my 20 years, but goodness some things have not and how the National / Regional / Local governments could have shot both feet off with the mismanagement of such an amazing project as the CDS leaves all of us staggered I think.
But it is still a great place in so many ways.
Much better than Thailand that’s for sure!
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I cannot understand why the Spanish Government don’t reduce the property sales tax a few points to kick-start the market.
I felt confident when we bought in Florida, very easy and all eventualities covered. I like their way of selling too, very transparent. (having stated that a large UK run one-stop shop crashed leaving $millions owed to Brits). Although, I am not sure that corruption was the only reason for Spain’s property crash. Sales seemed to be slowing before all the major scandals.
Doubt if many would come back into the market from the UK at this exchange rate. (unless they saw an absolute bargain). Some maybe tempted to buy because return on other investments are low and the stock exchange is so risky.
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Well Chris, I have to say well done to you for posting on this site and after taking flak in the past re Viva etc, unlike those in charge of certain once large agents who kept ‘selling the impossible dream’ at vast commission rates.
There will always be Brits looking to buy in the sun but to hear some agents still trying to mislead them after all of our experiences is galling, and those agents were Brits selling to Brits at any cost.
Are you still with Viva in any way, are they still in business, or are you with anyone else, I’m a bit out of touch now with your side of things?
Quite a few bad apples (agents/developers/lawyers) spoilt things for many others selling or buying in Spain and were’nt stopped by the Spanish Gov’t nor AIPP and FOPDAC etc.
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@flosmichael wrote:
I guess British people do not buy as the Sterling is as valuable as toilet paper. Irish are in debt over their heads. Russian oligarch are becoming
bankrupt and Germans are afraid.Looking after 2 month to Kyero I see that there is mostly no change in price.
Is it because nobody cares anymore or people are,amazingly enough, still in the denial phase?Possibly they are holding onto their property in a war of nutrition specifically against people who every day feel the need to post ‘Who buys in Spain now?’ type threads on forums.
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Why is everyone worrying? According to crooksey all this is just a temporary blip.
Why not just take a leaf out of Gordy Brown’s book and spend your way out of the crisis. Borrow five grand to see you through the Winter, play golf, eat out and drink decent plonk. You only live once.
Who knows, with a bit of luck the lender will go bust and you won’t have to pay it back. 😀 -
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