What’s going on in the off-plan investor market?

Spanish Property Insight Forums Spanish Property Forums Spanish Real Estate Chatter What’s going on in the off-plan investor market?

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    • #51280
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Are you an off-plan investor?
      If so are you looking for a buyer or have you recently managed to sell on?
      If you are still looking for a buyer, how long have you been trying to sell for, and what has the response been like?
      What is your price strategy? Do you think you will make any money out of the investment, or may you have to sell on for a loss? What do you think is happening to prices?

      …just some of the questions we need to answer.

      Anyone out there with recent experience of off-plan investing in Spain please share your experience with the forum (please let us know which area your experience refers to). There are too many people operating in the dark (relying on estate agents for all their information). Only a public debate in a forum like this can shed some light on the present state of the market.

      ¡Vamos!

      Mark

    • #59071
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Speaking from the Costa del Sol, I’d be interested to hear of any investors that managed to sell on before completion for a worthwhile profit – I’ve never met one who did, even going back a few years. The agents generally make twice the commission selling off plan over resale so aren’t likely to push the resales.

      That’s not to say everyone has lost, many have been able to sell on after completion but if a mortgage etc. was involved those costs will have cut hard into the profits. Some have turned to renting, and in some areas are making a tidy annual income from this but in many other areas the rentals market is now pretty saturated, and the investor has an unwanted second home in the sun whether he likes it or not.

      I myself bought off-plan here some five years ago and have done very nicely out of it – but my idea was to buy a home, not an investment.

    • #59072
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Whilst not an off plan investor, I did consider buying an off plan resale.

      In March 2005 I was interested in a two bed, two bath townhouse on the La Torre Polaris World Golf Resort due for completion in first half 2006. The asking price for this property was 260,000 €. The original contract price for the property in October 2003 was 179,000 €. At the time I asked the question on several forums and of the agent, how can the difference in price (81,000 €) be considered for tax purposes. My understanding was that it would not and was part of the common practice of “underdeclaring”. So when I would com eto sell the property, I would also underdeclare to ensure I would not be liable for CGT on the difference. The consistent legal advice was that the Spanish authorities will clamp down on this. As yet, this one issue still to be resolved regarding off plan investing.

      The asking price of property I was interested in has steadily reduced since March to a current price of 195,000 €, just 16,000 € above the contract price. Now considering the posts on estate agent comissions, the 9% profit is probably the agents cut, and the vendor is just trying to get his money back.

      Consider PW is in Murcia, which is supposed to be the latest “hotspot”, it does not bode well for the off plan speculator.

      Regards
      Kevin

    • #59073
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Hi All
      I am involved with two off plan developments , one of which i intend to live in , and the other to rent out. However i think that it has to be viewed as a long time investment and not to make a quick profit.
      I now believe that there is little chance of selling before completion , and certaintly not to make a profit. In Fact my one site which is coming up for finish , there are completed resales on the market for 5000euros less than what i am paying for mine which is still not complete. I have wasted 2 years , when i could have waited and bought a finished appt for less
      Think hard before buying off plan , the agents are full of bullshit.

      Mike

    • #59075
      Anonymous
      Participant

      We bought two properties on Costa del Sol both off plan in Jan 2004. One for our own use and to rent out, the other to sell on before completion.
      We have had both on the market since March 2005 with our agent who guess what! hasn’t sold them despite telling us at the time there would be no problem selling them on and making a good profit.
      One property is due to complete at end of October the other Jan 2006. We cannot afford both and unless we sell one we will have to pull out of the property due 2006 and will lose 50% of monies paid to date.
      Having recently found this site and read all the horror stories I wish I had never gone out to Spain.
      I totally agree with Mike, the agents are full of bullshit and we too have wasted years investing in off plan when you can now buy on the same development at a lower price.

    • #59076
      Anonymous
      Participant

      I agree with Mike6 ‘s comments.

      We also bought two off plan properties. Hoping to live in one and sell on the other before completion. With the ammount of new builds and re-sales, its almost impossible. Our agent said it would be so easy but I can assure you its not, our agent hasn’t informed us of any interest in it at all. Our ads on the internet gave us an interested party but he decided he could go for a re-sale much cheaper and have the use now of the property. We too have now decided that the only option is to rent out the apartment when its completed.Have no option. At this present time I don’t think buying off plan to sell on before completion for a profit is guaranteed.Trouble is we listen to these agents and through rose coloured glasses we see a profit from our investment for doing nothing. In most cases “it aint” so. Much better if you have the money just stick it in a high interest account. Less hassle!!!!!!.To buy off plan with the intension of selling on before its finished you should always make sure you have funds available if needed to complete the purchase. Otherwise it can be a very expensive gamble. Lets face it when do things ever go smoothly in Spain.
      Yet we love the place
      The area we are buying in is Almeria region 😀

    • #59085
      Anonymous
      Participant

      We also were one of those wearing the rose coloured glasses at the airport. We had 2 apartments – one we did manage to sell shortly after putting the initial deposit on. The other one is due for completion in the Duquesa area early next year. We have had it on the market for nearly a year. We were originally going to keep it, but unfortunately personal circumstances have changed and we really need to sell it. We are currently marketing it at €15,000 below what we paid 2 years ago, and about €80,000 below the developer’s price. But still not sold!!! Doesn’t that tell you something. I see on one of the Auction sites that there are resales for even less!!!

    • #59097
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Okay, no surprises there.

      So did anyone ever make money out of off-plan investing in Spain? Did anyone in this forum, or does anyone know of anyone who did? Obviously the people trying to get out now are in trouble, but what about those who were exiting their investments in the late 90’s and early 2000?

      There’s another problem with off-plan investing that you don’t find out about until you manage to sell on – the agent’s commission.

      Time for an example.

      You invest in a 200,000 Euro property off-plan.
      You pay 50,000 plus VAT = 53,500 Euros to the developer as a 25% stage payment, the remainder to pay at completion / escritura.
      You then try and find a buyer prepared to pay 250,000 plus VAT for the property. That would mean them paying the remaining 150,000 plus VAT = 160,500 to the developer, and 100,000 to you in cash, total cost to new buyer 260,500 Euros.
      Lovely for you to get 100,000 in cash, equivalent to your 53,500 investment plus a tax-free profit of 46,500.
      Problem is that you won’t find an agent prepared to get out of bed for anything less that the commissions paid by developers, i.e. anything from about 7.5% upwards, but more like 10% of the value of the property. In this case that means a commission to the agent of 25,000 Euros plus VAT = 29,000 Euros, which reduces your tax free profit to 17,500 Euros, somewhat less than what the agent takes out, despite that fact that you took all the risk. Agent’s commissions can quickly turn a small profit into a big loss for you. It won’t make you feel better, but don’t forget that the agent also made 10% when you bought from the developer.

      There are all sorts of other problems, like having to deal with large amounts of cash, and the need to find buyers who are prepared to pay in cash, and therefore take on a CGT risk. Of course few people realise this when going into the investment, and estate agents are not the sorts to enlighten them.

      But I’d still like to know, has anyone ever made a success of it?

      Another very important question. Where do you all see the market going? Is it time for the bottom-fishers to start snapping up properties on the cheap, or does the market still have some way to fall?

      Mark

    • #59101
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Mark

      I read this section with a lot of interest.

      I have recently posted a topic on another forum which challenges book price versus resale price versus eventual price.

      Indeed it is extremely interesting but also quite simple, in my opinion, to comprehend the way in which the Spanish property market is at the current time.

      Firstly, I think one has to make a distinction between developers – what constitutes a good developement that people will want to either ‘buy’ in to or choose to rent when completed versus a develepor that does not ooze trust, enthusiasm and the ‘desire’ to purchase. Secondly, I believe that sector categories need to be establised and identified – by this I mean coastal, golf, alternative inland, city inland.

      This simple part as I have mentioned, is that you will not make money buying and selling off plan. By way of making money, I mean serious money. This is not happening and it is creating market confusion with new builds.

      The mixture of buyers as we all know are speculators, buy to let, and buy to live. The latter two I believe are the winners as medium to long term they will succeed, in the current conditions. The former are not succeeding with their financial desires, and as a consequence, are having a detrimental effect on the latter two.

      I think this is an informative forum, and I feel dreadfully for the people that have been left high and dry by certain developers and unltimately lost money.

      Wine and Jonathan Ross are now on offer……..

      All the best and rgs
      Darren

    • #59106
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Mark I couldn’t agree more about your mention that it appears to be the agent who wins all the time because od his ‘fat’ commission.

      I’ve said it before, property bought in Spain has to rise enormously to return a reasonable profit to the client simply because of the agent often sticking 7.5% to the price. He’s already taken 10% + when he sold it off-plan, then add your 11% completion costs and any property taxes afterwards, then he has the cheek to say the property has risen 25-40% in a year, meanwhile the client makes ‘nothing’ or worse still, cannot sell even for a discount.

      Why?

      Because the same agent is now ‘pushing’ new builds off-plan again and couldn’t care less about his clients.

      Property boom built mainly on lies and ex-timeshare sales people chasing a fast buck, then moving on. Take Awful Estates for example!

    • #59111
      Anonymous
      Participant

      ive bought on polaris world golf resort , with intentions to get a better rent yield than the uk market, so i have decied to rent it as well as have holidays there, i have also bought on covera golf and country same again with intentions to rent , the new airport in the region murcia will be coverea with better access the property prices there are bound to shoot up so guys if u bought in these areas long term u are laughing , short term lets so u gus are crying, get onto the polaris world property forum which discusses all the polaris world property potentials and pitfalls guys
      im gianni@talktalk.net remember polaris is advertised on tv and is a good buy longterm not short term……

      remeber as on the advert it say s tommorow jack………polaris world.com

    • #59114
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Guest,

      You mention that the new airport in the Murcia region will be in Corvera – this was preciely the reason I bought in Hacienda del Alamo 2 years ago.

      However, I don’t think the new airport is going ahead anymore! All the estate agents still insist that it’s happening – and use this as a marketing tactic. However my bank manager at Caixa Catalugna bank says that the national government have refused funding for the airport – and they’re saying that is Murcia needs a new airport then the regional government should pay for it. The bank manager has no vested interest in pretending there will be a new airport (unlike the developers/agents).

      I’ve driven around Corvera – and there’s not a single sign of a new airport.

      Sorry to bring on some disappoint news – I was a little upset when I first heard this.

      Of course, I sincerely hope that I am wrong! If you have further details on the proposed airport, please, please post here.

    • #59115
      Anonymous
      Participant

      There are a few threads on the PW forum of a similar vein to this one. One in particular has several posters looking to get out of their PW off plan contract and buy a resale because they are cheaper than what they originally paid.

      In my opinion, the market in Murcia/Costa Calida is not far behind the CDS market in terms of being depressed and suffering from unscrupulous agents pushing off plan guaranteed profit opportunities to gullible amateur speculators.

      Regards
      Kevin

    • #59119
      Anonymous
      Participant

      @Anonymous wrote:

      ive bought on polaris world golf resort , with intentions to get a better rent yield than the uk market, so i have decied to rent it as well as have holidays there, i have also bought on covera golf and country same again with intentions to rent , the new airport in the region murcia will be coverea with better access the property prices there are bound to shoot up so guys if u bought in these areas long term u are laughing , short term lets so u gus are crying, get onto the polaris world property forum which discusses all the polaris world property potentials and pitfalls guys
      im gianni@talktalk.net remember polaris is advertised on tv and is a good buy longterm not short term……

      remeber as on the advert it say s tommorow jack………polaris world.com

      Sounds like a DESPERATE Polaris world employee to me !!!! 🙄

    • #59120
      Anonymous
      Participant

      My advice is to avoid Polaris World like the plague. Construction is about to come to a halt, and won’t start again until the drought is over. Could be years, and there’ll be no compensation as it’s nobody’s fault. Except maybe the current central government who’s first act was to scupper the project to pipe water to the area from the north.

    • #59125
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Hi Bert

      Interesting you say PW will come to a grinding halt. There is a big anouncement on the PW website saying that PW will not be affected by the drought as they are building there own de-salination plant. That in itself has enviromental consequences but that is another issue.

      Can you substantiate the halting of building?

      BTW, I am not a PW owner (but nearly was)

      Regards

      Kevin

    • #59126
      Anonymous
      Participant

      They must have spent a fortune advertising PW. Investors should realise that golfers do not want to stay on a golf course, they want to play on several and stay close to night life.

    • #59127
      Anonymous
      Participant

      http://idealista.com/pagina/boletin.comentarios;jsessionid=E47BC52CF5D8482E74286516886FD6C4.acaps2?id_noticia=20053601

      Linky-poo. In Spanish, I’m afraid. The desalination plant hasn’t been started yet, and even if it was fully functioning it’s hard to see how it could really provide for 30,000 odd houses. Construction requires enormous quantities of water.

      Polaris World can hardly come out and say they’re in trouble. Not while they still have all those unsold units.

    • #59128
      Anonymous
      Participant

      @Anonymous wrote:

      They must have spent a fortune advertising PW. Investors should realise that golfers do not want to stay on a golf course, they want to play on several and stay close to night life.

      Exactly. They want to drive to golf in the morning, but the last thing they want is to have to drive anywhere at all after a night on the town.

    • #59130
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Bert

      Would be interesting to get an English translation of that link and post it on the PW forum, don your tin helmet, duck behind the parapet and await the brickbats.

      Interesting comment about what golfers require. My understanding is that PW will allow you to play on any of the 8 they are developing (although only one with 9 holes is open). The resorts do seem to be a bit light on entertainement (Mar Menor has one club/restaurant, with a hotel due next year)

      Time will tell if they are right.

      BTW, the townhouse I referred to in an earlier post has now sold for 195,000€

      Regards
      Kevin

    • #59132
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Forget it. Do your own translations. 😀

    • #59133
      Anonymous
      Participant

      ROFL

      Coward 😀

    • #59708
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Hi Mark

      I know of only two people who have made money out of off plan developments. These were very small developments in good locations. One was a block of 6 apartments which sold for €140,000 off plan 18 months ago and the agent (who co-funded the development) guaranteed that they would not force the buyer to buy before they had sold (in both cases)

      The second was an adosado in a development of 14. The people in question bought 3 of them and sold one on almost 6 months after the development completed.

      In both cases the agent guaranteed them how much they made on top of their original investment. Anything over this then it was a 50/50 split between the agent and the investor – so the commission for the agent was to try and get more than the agreed price.

      They sold 8 properties like this and in all that time never forced one person to buy that didnt want to. Unusual to say the least but thats the difference when the agent is also the funder of the development. Also although the property went over time in one case (by 6 months) it was the agent who ensured the project moved on.

      The difference being is that this is Costa Blanca where such developments are rare and investing in off plan is not as available as it is in Costa Del Sol. And also that these were small developments that people would actually want to be in (the 14 adosados were on a small urbanisation of around 140 properties)

      Finally because the agent basically bought the development (with a large investor) upfront, he was able to get the development at an excellent price. He made his money but then the investors only had to put down 10% of the purchase price until sold or until they got their Certificate of habitation (if they elected this route)

      It can work but from what I have seen on here it isnt something Iwoudl entertain – certainly not in the Costa Del Sol and certianly not on a big urban sprawl

      Best wishes

      Vince

    • #59508
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Hi Mark

      I know of only two people who have made money out of off plan developments. These were very small developments in good locations. One was a block of 6 apartments which sold for €140,000 off plan 18 months ago and the agent (who co-funded the development) guaranteed that they would not force the buyer to buy before they had sold (in both cases)

      The second was an adosado in a development of 14. The people in question bought 3 of them and sold one on almost 6 months after the development completed.

      In both cases the agent guaranteed them how much they made on top of their original investment. Anything over this then it was a 50/50 split between the agent and the investor – so the commission for the agent was to try and get more than the agreed price.

      They sold 8 properties like this and in all that time never forced one person to buy that didnt want to. Unusual to say the least but thats the difference when the agent is also the funder of the development. Also although the property went over time in one case (by 6 months) it was the agent who ensured the project moved on.

      The difference being is that this is Costa Blanca where such developments are rare and investing in off plan is not as available as it is in Costa Del Sol. And also that these were small developments that people would actually want to be in (the 14 adosados were on a small urbanisation of around 140 properties)

      Finally because the agent basically bought the development (with a large investor) upfront, he was able to get the development at an excellent price. He made his money but then the investors only had to put down 10% of the purchase price until sold or until they got their Certificate of habitation (if they elected this route)

      It can work but from what I have seen on here it isnt something Iwoudl entertain – certainly not in the Costa Del Sol and certianly not on a big urban sprawl

      Best wishes

      Vince

    • #59711
      Anonymous
      Participant

      I thought urban sprawl was a costa blanca speciality. the places I have visited certainly are. Some of the urbanisations are set out like the old alleyways in Lancashire terraces.

    • #59511
      Anonymous
      Participant

      I thought urban sprawl was a costa blanca speciality. the places I have visited certainly are. Some of the urbanisations are set out like the old alleyways in Lancashire terraces.

    • #59713
      Anonymous
      Participant

      I guess in places such as Calpe, javea, Torrevieja, Moraira and Benidorm it is. I fortunately live in the very North on the border between Costa Blanca and Azahar – actually officially i live in the Costa Azahar my other property is 2kms inside Costa Blanca.

      One notable difference is that the law here forces promoters to complete urbanisations before they are granted permission to build. So the roads, light and water etc are all in place before a brick is laid. Although this is something recent it does mean you have tarmac road to your door before your door is built (not always the case and it does depend on the council)

      But the Costa Blanca is nowhere near as bad as the Costa Del Sol – and I don’t wish to get into a battle of where is better or worse – it is merely an observation that when I visited Gibraltar last year and the year before it was relentless there wasnt a spot of green or unbroken development that I could see from Nerja to Gib. This region does have its problems with over development – but not quite on the scale it is in CdS – although still too much. You can at least see some mountains which dont have urbanisations onthem and green fields with orage groves on them – when this will end is anybody’s guess

      Regards

      Vince

    • #59513
      Anonymous
      Participant

      I guess in places such as Calpe, javea, Torrevieja, Moraira and Benidorm it is. I fortunately live in the very North on the border between Costa Blanca and Azahar – actually officially i live in the Costa Azahar my other property is 2kms inside Costa Blanca.

      One notable difference is that the law here forces promoters to complete urbanisations before they are granted permission to build. So the roads, light and water etc are all in place before a brick is laid. Although this is something recent it does mean you have tarmac road to your door before your door is built (not always the case and it does depend on the council)

      But the Costa Blanca is nowhere near as bad as the Costa Del Sol – and I don’t wish to get into a battle of where is better or worse – it is merely an observation that when I visited Gibraltar last year and the year before it was relentless there wasnt a spot of green or unbroken development that I could see from Nerja to Gib. This region does have its problems with over development – but not quite on the scale it is in CdS – although still too much. You can at least see some mountains which dont have urbanisations onthem and green fields with orage groves on them – when this will end is anybody’s guess

      Regards

      Vince

    • #59717
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Hi everyone, been reading this forum for a while, really useful but haven’t felt the need to contribute before. However, vbtudor you say you don’t want to get into a battle but then continue to give your opinion…ok.

      overdevelopment… If anyplace has a costa to its name unfortunately its already overdeveloped.

      Costa Blanca…I spent some time with friends and from their terrace I counted 20 cranes. Just read other peoples perceptions on other forums. Of course I am generalising I don’t know everywhere as you obviously don’t know the costa del sol.. Have lived there for many years and I have a uninterupted view of the sierra de las nieves and over pine woods looking down to the sea. the smallest plot on the urbanisation is around 1800m2 and we don’t have the land grab law (yet!!) and the highest building is 2 floors.

      Also I don’t have an agenda, I am not selling anything.

    • #59517
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Hi everyone, been reading this forum for a while, really useful but haven’t felt the need to contribute before. However, vbtudor you say you don’t want to get into a battle but then continue to give your opinion…ok.

      overdevelopment… If anyplace has a costa to its name unfortunately its already overdeveloped.

      Costa Blanca…I spent some time with friends and from their terrace I counted 20 cranes. Just read other peoples perceptions on other forums. Of course I am generalising I don’t know everywhere as you obviously don’t know the costa del sol.. Have lived there for many years and I have a uninterupted view of the sierra de las nieves and over pine woods looking down to the sea. the smallest plot on the urbanisation is around 1800m2 and we don’t have the land grab law (yet!!) and the highest building is 2 floors.

      Also I don’t have an agenda, I am not selling anything.

    • #59718
      katy
      Blocked

      Don’t know why I am a guest i have just registered as Katy!

    • #59518
      katy
      Blocked

      Don’t know why I am a guest i have just registered as Katy!

    • #59723
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Hi there Guest and Katy

      Actually I don’t have a vested interest either – I am a professional musician and part time writer – yep would love everyone to listen to my music but am a realist. Perhaps it isn’t to everyone’s taste – but you know what – I bet you have never ever seen a post by me pertaining to my (obviously brilliant) music – of that I can be assured. But people who hear it love it. So my vested interest being?

      I run a website to inform people about the joys and pitfalls about living in Spain and have contributed much to helping people achieve their objectives. Started from being ripped off myself – even bothered to write a book about it – and whilst it is available for sale any info contained in it I am more than happy to pass on to people – based on my experiences here – nothing else. So yes – would like to sell my book – but the info I will pass on to those who ask for it – and the vested interest is?

      I live just inside/outside the most fertile place in Spain – own natural underwater reservoir, by the beach, end of the Costa Blanca beginning of Costa Azahar – can’t see many cranes from my terrace – certainly not as many as Costa Del Sol, but this is only one part of the area. No I dont know the Costa Del Sol Katy but I have visited there a number of times and couldnt see anything else but cranes for 300Kms

      As for the Land Grab Law – actually you might find that Andalucia has its own version – brought in a couple of years ago – but obviously not something they want to publiclise – already has taken effect. So hope you never become part of it.

      The difference being at least in Valencia it is publicised so people know about it – in Andalucia – which forgive my ignorance but I believe covers Costa Del Sol – they dont – so you are blissfully unaware.

      Bad thing because if it is like LRAU (and apparently it is worse because developers in CdS are even more unscrupulous than CB) then you are not that well off.

      I don’t know the Costa Del Sol and don’t profess to – it is a place I don’t wish to know, but having been there on a number of occasions and had a Spanish person who lived there – ask why I spoke Spanish – (albeit in Fuengirola) I couldn’t understand why you would want the Spanish life – if this was your reference point.

      But then that is not my call it is that of those who live there and I wish you luck. My point about not wanting to get into a battle had nothing to do with offering an opinion.

      However I hope that your sea view stays – in spite of any laws they have – the good thing about LRAU for CdS is hopefully they may put into law the things the EU ask for LRAU – but as not many people have complained from Andalucia as yet, it doesnt have the exposure it does in CB – but it will. And then will you worry about your view – I hope it is safe wherever it is. By the way the Andalucian Land Law came into effect in 2003.

      So in short – I have offered a lot of advice on this forum without any agenda – dont need to sell anything to make my life here in Spain easier. I do so because when I moved here I got ripped off and spent a lot of time trying to inform people coming here to watch out – then wrote a book about it. If this is an agenda thats bad then I apologise – but if what I say hits home to just one person and they wake up and smell the coffeee then I am happy to be labelled a person with an agenda – remember I have bought personally two properties here and my familiy four more – thats enough to know how it goes.

      Regards and good luck

      Vince

    • #59523
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Hi there Guest and Katy

      Actually I don’t have a vested interest either – I am a professional musician and part time writer – yep would love everyone to listen to my music but am a realist. Perhaps it isn’t to everyone’s taste – but you know what – I bet you have never ever seen a post by me pertaining to my (obviously brilliant) music – of that I can be assured. But people who hear it love it. So my vested interest being?

      I run a website to inform people about the joys and pitfalls about living in Spain and have contributed much to helping people achieve their objectives. Started from being ripped off myself – even bothered to write a book about it – and whilst it is available for sale any info contained in it I am more than happy to pass on to people – based on my experiences here – nothing else. So yes – would like to sell my book – but the info I will pass on to those who ask for it – and the vested interest is?

      I live just inside/outside the most fertile place in Spain – own natural underwater reservoir, by the beach, end of the Costa Blanca beginning of Costa Azahar – can’t see many cranes from my terrace – certainly not as many as Costa Del Sol, but this is only one part of the area. No I dont know the Costa Del Sol Katy but I have visited there a number of times and couldnt see anything else but cranes for 300Kms

      As for the Land Grab Law – actually you might find that Andalucia has its own version – brought in a couple of years ago – but obviously not something they want to publiclise – already has taken effect. So hope you never become part of it.

      The difference being at least in Valencia it is publicised so people know about it – in Andalucia – which forgive my ignorance but I believe covers Costa Del Sol – they dont – so you are blissfully unaware.

      Bad thing because if it is like LRAU (and apparently it is worse because developers in CdS are even more unscrupulous than CB) then you are not that well off.

      I don’t know the Costa Del Sol and don’t profess to – it is a place I don’t wish to know, but having been there on a number of occasions and had a Spanish person who lived there – ask why I spoke Spanish – (albeit in Fuengirola) I couldn’t understand why you would want the Spanish life – if this was your reference point.

      But then that is not my call it is that of those who live there and I wish you luck. My point about not wanting to get into a battle had nothing to do with offering an opinion.

      However I hope that your sea view stays – in spite of any laws they have – the good thing about LRAU for CdS is hopefully they may put into law the things the EU ask for LRAU – but as not many people have complained from Andalucia as yet, it doesnt have the exposure it does in CB – but it will. And then will you worry about your view – I hope it is safe wherever it is. By the way the Andalucian Land Law came into effect in 2003.

      So in short – I have offered a lot of advice on this forum without any agenda – dont need to sell anything to make my life here in Spain easier. I do so because when I moved here I got ripped off and spent a lot of time trying to inform people coming here to watch out – then wrote a book about it. If this is an agenda thats bad then I apologise – but if what I say hits home to just one person and they wake up and smell the coffeee then I am happy to be labelled a person with an agenda – remember I have bought personally two properties here and my familiy four more – thats enough to know how it goes.

      Regards and good luck

      Vince

    • #59726
      Anonymous
      Participant

      http://www.mybulgaria.info/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=6694

      So you guys are having the same problems, 👿

    • #59526
      Anonymous
      Participant

      http://www.mybulgaria.info/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=6694

      So you guys are having the same problems, 👿

    • #59737
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Hi Vince, I think your help is valuable to most contributors and your knowledge and experience is worth the read. As for C del Sol you are probably better off not knowing it, certainly all down the coastal strip for a few miles or so inland, I think it is more or less spoilt or scarred for life, and yet there are still loads of cranes. It is so over developed and over priced by the big rogue agents I don’t see much chance of anyone making a decent profit for years on their off-plan these agents keep pushing to them, any profit is eaten by their fat commissions.

      Personally, I think a bit of land grab will soon visit that coast too and not forgetting all the illegal builds there which will have to come down no doubt with no compensation to the owners affected.

    • #59537
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Hi Vince, I think your help is valuable to most contributors and your knowledge and experience is worth the read. As for C del Sol you are probably better off not knowing it, certainly all down the coastal strip for a few miles or so inland, I think it is more or less spoilt or scarred for life, and yet there are still loads of cranes. It is so over developed and over priced by the big rogue agents I don’t see much chance of anyone making a decent profit for years on their off-plan these agents keep pushing to them, any profit is eaten by their fat commissions.

      Personally, I think a bit of land grab will soon visit that coast too and not forgetting all the illegal builds there which will have to come down no doubt with no compensation to the owners affected.

    • #59739
      Anonymous
      Participant

      I was telephoned this morning by some guy from Spain “selling” “land investment”(!!!) or something like.? Anyway, he was saying it had been several years since he was in the C de S, and he said he was quite shocked by how much it had developed. He likened it to Blackpool 🙁 I think that was a tad harsh. Even where I live it has “grown” a lot since we moved here 17 years ago. The traffic has trebled ! The old story of “supply and demand.”

    • #59539
      Anonymous
      Participant

      I was telephoned this morning by some guy from Spain “selling” “land investment”(!!!) or something like.? Anyway, he was saying it had been several years since he was in the C de S, and he said he was quite shocked by how much it had developed. He likened it to Blackpool 🙁 I think that was a tad harsh. Even where I live it has “grown” a lot since we moved here 17 years ago. The traffic has trebled ! The old story of “supply and demand.”

    • #59741
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Hi Paul

      I wonder if you would be good enough to drop me an email – I have an idea that may help you and others

      regards

      Vince

    • #59541
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Hi Paul

      I wonder if you would be good enough to drop me an email – I have an idea that may help you and others

      regards

      Vince

    • #59744
      katy
      Blocked

      Still think you are writing a load of drivel Vince. Refer to your other post re. trying to tap into the USA market. In your dreams buddy! Most americans don’t even want to leave the US let alone buy elsewhere. there are hundreds of Americans at the air base in Rota who never leave it.

      I have seen your “web” site and it also has property ads, no wonder you are asking people to e-mail you, its people like you who mess up forums by trying to gain without paying for advertising.

    • #59544
      katy
      Blocked

      Still think you are writing a load of drivel Vince. Refer to your other post re. trying to tap into the USA market. In your dreams buddy! Most americans don’t even want to leave the US let alone buy elsewhere. there are hundreds of Americans at the air base in Rota who never leave it.

      I have seen your “web” site and it also has property ads, no wonder you are asking people to e-mail you, its people like you who mess up forums by trying to gain without paying for advertising.

    • #59745
      Anonymous
      Participant

      The property on my own site is either direct from the owners (it actually states this on the home page that any owner can have a free account) or it is a local estate agent who uses my database because his own site gets few visitors.

      As for the Americans – whilst it may be true most Americans would prefer to stay in USA – only 10% have passports – thats 25 million people . If 0.1% of Americans want to leave (and I believe it is many more) thats 250,000 or thereabouts.

      The post you mentioned was to advise someone trying to sell their house – I advised to try something dfifferent. This person only needs one buyer – he doesnt need 2, 10 250 or 250,000. So if only one person buys his house – job done.

      Now that has got to be better than waiting for your friendly estate agent to bring someone along – which isnt in their interest because the commission isnt good enough. Or would you disagree?

      Aslo take it in the context – I also mentioned in the same post some free websites and cheap websites where they could advertise not to mention other avenues they could try – but you dont mention this – only one line of a long post.

      As for people like me messing up forums – I have only ever tried to help others – the requests to go visit links are generally because of an article which may be of interest in general.

      If messing up a forum – is giving advice and trying to help people out – translating for someone on the phone – from this forum, how to find info, avoiding paying too much for your property, giving people an alternative place to advertise their property – for free, then I apologise and perhaps I will keep my drivel comments to myself and just go on the offensive and attack anyone who dares to disagree with me.

      But then that is hardly in the spirit of the forum.

      Regards

      Vince

    • #59545
      Anonymous
      Participant

      The property on my own site is either direct from the owners (it actually states this on the home page that any owner can have a free account) or it is a local estate agent who uses my database because his own site gets few visitors.

      As for the Americans – whilst it may be true most Americans would prefer to stay in USA – only 10% have passports – thats 25 million people . If 0.1% of Americans want to leave (and I believe it is many more) thats 250,000 or thereabouts.

      The post you mentioned was to advise someone trying to sell their house – I advised to try something dfifferent. This person only needs one buyer – he doesnt need 2, 10 250 or 250,000. So if only one person buys his house – job done.

      Now that has got to be better than waiting for your friendly estate agent to bring someone along – which isnt in their interest because the commission isnt good enough. Or would you disagree?

      Aslo take it in the context – I also mentioned in the same post some free websites and cheap websites where they could advertise not to mention other avenues they could try – but you dont mention this – only one line of a long post.

      As for people like me messing up forums – I have only ever tried to help others – the requests to go visit links are generally because of an article which may be of interest in general.

      If messing up a forum – is giving advice and trying to help people out – translating for someone on the phone – from this forum, how to find info, avoiding paying too much for your property, giving people an alternative place to advertise their property – for free, then I apologise and perhaps I will keep my drivel comments to myself and just go on the offensive and attack anyone who dares to disagree with me.

      But then that is hardly in the spirit of the forum.

      Regards

      Vince

    • #59746
      katy
      Blocked

      I take it the property ads on your site are all put there out of the goodness of your heart and you don’t make a charge for this. Much of the info you have offered on this site has been available on many forums for a long time and they have put it more concise. I do think the people on here deserve better than to have someone pushing ads they are already vunerable, it takes away the impartiality of the site.

    • #59546
      katy
      Blocked

      I take it the property ads on your site are all put there out of the goodness of your heart and you don’t make a charge for this. Much of the info you have offered on this site has been available on many forums for a long time and they have put it more concise. I do think the people on here deserve better than to have someone pushing ads they are already vunerable, it takes away the impartiality of the site.

    • #59749
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Actually Katy I don’t need to earn money from my site – I write and play Music and this gives me a great time and a good income. I also write for magazines and a newspaper in addition to having investment properties – that have fortunately been successful (unlike many I read about). And in the main I have done the selling of said properties myself – so having done that can advise what has worked for me.

      So yes I do put the properties on out of the goodness of my heart. If someone puts their property on and sells their house through it then great – I am truly happy. Perhaps because I didn’t live in the UK too much – only really spent 10 years after I left home – I haven’t been bitten by the need to earn money form everything I do.

      “It’s good to have money and the things that money can buy, but it’s good, too, to check up once in a while and make sure that you haven’t lost the things that money can’t buy” – Benjamin Franklin

      I still remember vividly being here the first time and openly trusting people I thought were only trying to help out. And actually just wishing I had someone I could turn to for a friendly word of advice to make sure I was doing the right thing. It was bewildering because I didn’t speak the language

      Sometimes such memories live with you a long time. So when I was a buyers agent and saw the same thing in others – coming here placing blind trust in people – I tried to ensure they didn’t get fleeced even wrote a guide to ensure they were more informed – and aggravated a lot of agents into the bargain because I negotiated down the price of a property for buyers (in most cases by substantial amounts.)

      I don’t doubt the information is available in other places – but if it were that easy to find why are people asking the question on here. And sometimes it is better to drop a question then come back tomorrow and find the answer than trawling the internet looking at the substantial amount of useless info available before getting a golden nugget.

      “The opposite of creativity is cynicism” – Esa Saarinen

      I think this is getting a bit off subject. I am happy to discuss with you any matter you wish – you may call me what you want (and I have been called worse believe me) but I think it is better off line rather than in the forum.

      Now that is what messes up forums.

      my email address should you wish to get in touch is displayed in the contact details for me – or on my website – which you know the address of already. No point in being accused of getting cheap hits to my website is there?

      Regards

      Vince

    • #59549
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Actually Katy I don’t need to earn money from my site – I write and play Music and this gives me a great time and a good income. I also write for magazines and a newspaper in addition to having investment properties – that have fortunately been successful (unlike many I read about). And in the main I have done the selling of said properties myself – so having done that can advise what has worked for me.

      So yes I do put the properties on out of the goodness of my heart. If someone puts their property on and sells their house through it then great – I am truly happy. Perhaps because I didn’t live in the UK too much – only really spent 10 years after I left home – I haven’t been bitten by the need to earn money form everything I do.

      “It’s good to have money and the things that money can buy, but it’s good, too, to check up once in a while and make sure that you haven’t lost the things that money can’t buy” – Benjamin Franklin

      I still remember vividly being here the first time and openly trusting people I thought were only trying to help out. And actually just wishing I had someone I could turn to for a friendly word of advice to make sure I was doing the right thing. It was bewildering because I didn’t speak the language

      Sometimes such memories live with you a long time. So when I was a buyers agent and saw the same thing in others – coming here placing blind trust in people – I tried to ensure they didn’t get fleeced even wrote a guide to ensure they were more informed – and aggravated a lot of agents into the bargain because I negotiated down the price of a property for buyers (in most cases by substantial amounts.)

      I don’t doubt the information is available in other places – but if it were that easy to find why are people asking the question on here. And sometimes it is better to drop a question then come back tomorrow and find the answer than trawling the internet looking at the substantial amount of useless info available before getting a golden nugget.

      “The opposite of creativity is cynicism” – Esa Saarinen

      I think this is getting a bit off subject. I am happy to discuss with you any matter you wish – you may call me what you want (and I have been called worse believe me) but I think it is better off line rather than in the forum.

      Now that is what messes up forums.

      my email address should you wish to get in touch is displayed in the contact details for me – or on my website – which you know the address of already. No point in being accused of getting cheap hits to my website is there?

      Regards

      Vince

    • #59752
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Katy,

      As a matter of interest, why are you using the forum, apart from ripping into Vince, whom I know is a decent guy.??? You have not written anything of interest or substance.

    • #59552
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Katy,

      As a matter of interest, why are you using the forum, apart from ripping into Vince, whom I know is a decent guy.??? You have not written anything of interest or substance.

    • #59753
      katy
      Blocked

      Because although I have not contributed I have been reading the forum with interest since I read Marks page in Sunday Times (particularly your situation which BTW think your developers are a bunch of thieves). I think Vinces blatant advertising cancels out any info he may have.

      Bert Prest is an agent, has he ever advertised? I think the stuff vince wrote about off-plan in his area is too good to be true and you know what they say, if its too good to be true there is something wrong with it. Just because its a different area doesn’t make the developers anymore honest sometimes they are the same people under a different name. He is not impartial because his site is commercial and as you have said in previous postings you do know him.

      I won’t be entering into anymore discussion on this topic, just thought its a pity a good forum allowing blatant advertising, Have you seen what he’s selling for 20$?

    • #59553
      katy
      Blocked

      Because although I have not contributed I have been reading the forum with interest since I read Marks page in Sunday Times (particularly your situation which BTW think your developers are a bunch of thieves). I think Vinces blatant advertising cancels out any info he may have.

      Bert Prest is an agent, has he ever advertised? I think the stuff vince wrote about off-plan in his area is too good to be true and you know what they say, if its too good to be true there is something wrong with it. Just because its a different area doesn’t make the developers anymore honest sometimes they are the same people under a different name. He is not impartial because his site is commercial and as you have said in previous postings you do know him.

      I won’t be entering into anymore discussion on this topic, just thought its a pity a good forum allowing blatant advertising, Have you seen what he’s selling for 20$?

    • #59754
      katy
      Blocked

      Forgot to point out I did contribute to capital gains topic around 5pm but sorry I don’t have anything more info, I’ve been lucky. Doubt if I would buy again in Spain again after reading this forum though!

    • #59554
      katy
      Blocked

      Forgot to point out I did contribute to capital gains topic around 5pm but sorry I don’t have anything more info, I’ve been lucky. Doubt if I would buy again in Spain again after reading this forum though!

    • #59757
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Thanks, Katy. I am glad you are a “bona fide” person…not just coming here to kick up a ruck !! 🙂

    • #59557
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Thanks, Katy. I am glad you are a “bona fide” person…not just coming here to kick up a ruck !! 🙂

    • #59758
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Enoughs , enough, Mud slinging helps no-one. 🙄 Lifes too short !

      This is a great site with loads of valid and sound advice.
      Lets all use and enjoy it.

      Axwhale 😉

    • #59558
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Enoughs , enough, Mud slinging helps no-one. 🙄 Lifes too short !

      This is a great site with loads of valid and sound advice.
      Lets all use and enjoy it.

      Axwhale 😉

    • #59759
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Another thread coming to a natural end as it wonders off topic. However the question of what’s happening to the off-plan investment business is both interesting an important, so I’ll start up a new thread in short while on this subject.

      Mark

    • #59559
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Another thread coming to a natural end as it wonders off topic. However the question of what’s happening to the off-plan investment business is both interesting an important, so I’ll start up a new thread in short while on this subject.

      Mark

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