What offer to make

This topic contains 27 replies, has 12 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of SurveySpain SurveySpain 3 months, 2 weeks ago.

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  • #194051
    Profile photo of treetops
    treetops
    Participant

    Hi,

    Going to spain in New year to view some properties with hopefully intention of  buying one.  We previously owned a property in relatively same area but sold in 2012.  Some prices I am looking at are a little overpriced, on average what percentage below asking price should I offer if I see something suitable.  Or alternatively what is the average price per sq meter or square foot in south costa blanca.  Any advice would be grateful

     

     

  • #194133
    Profile photo of Chris Nation
    Chris Nation
    Participant

    As I recall from my own property search, the main portals, fotocasa and idealista, give the price of a property in sq metres and the average price for the district and the % + or –

     

     

  • #194134
    Profile photo of treetops
    treetops
    Participant

    Thanks for reply Chris.  I have been looking on Kyero and that info does not seem to be available on there will have a look on your suggested to see if properties are listed there.  Happy New year.

  • #194140
    Profile photo of BeeLazy
    BeeLazy
    Participant

    The average price per sq mtr in Alicante Region is now around €1300.  Of course location location location will also add a premium.

    Bee

  • #194141
    Profile photo of treetops
    treetops
    Participant

    Thanks for that reply Bee, so say a property is 90 sq meter and plot is 100 sq meter, do you calculate on the build rather than the plot.

  • #194143
    Profile photo of BeeLazy
    BeeLazy
    Participant

    The €1300 sq mtrs is build price.  I am not familiar with how they price plot size the normal quoted sale  price is house sq mtr price.  I presume within that asking price they build in the price of the plot plus the house which will account for the different prices quoted per sq mtr for an apartment and a  house on its own plot.  Again it will depend on the location of the property.  You will find that any property within a desirable area close to the sea and with a sea view will be a smaller sq mtr property with a higher price than say a larger apartment farther away from the sea.

    Bee

     

  • #194144
    Profile photo of treetops
    treetops
    Participant

    Thanks Bee for your input.  I used to own a property and sold in 2012 now looking to return to buy an investment property to rent out.  Some properties are well priced but some properties are way over priced.  The MLS system used in america is great you get all the information you need.

  • #194145
    Profile photo of BeeLazy
    BeeLazy
    Participant

    Treetops I am not familiar with MLS.  Is that a type of property register.   We have a property register in Ireland where you can check what price a property sold for.  Unfortunately nothing like it in Spain which is a pity.

    Bee

  • #194212
    Profile photo of treetops
    treetops
    Participant

    Just to follow up on this discussion.  Have been over to spain (costa Blanca) during the last week.  Seems to be a lot of building going on lots of cubes being built, estate agents on every corner and some operating out of cars!  Looked at some very over priced properties in not very good locations, other in good locations but needed a bit of TLC.  Viewed property which was in good location and in pristine condition and lived in, viewed it twice and checked out area several times we know the area very well, we put an offer in, the first offer was very low ball which was rejected put in a decent offer but which was still 13% below asking price, intially it was rejected but then it was accepted, fingers crossed all will go well with regard to closing.  There are not many good properties in good locations left.

    • #194253
      Profile photo of drpetyag
      drpetyag
      Participant

      Hello,

      I am going there in April . Could you suggest based on what you’ve seen where in Costa Blanca are the best rental potentials ? I think I can afford a property in Denia, but I hear Javea is better for rental income, yet properties there are on times 2000 + EU/sq meter ,way overpriced .

      Good job on your offer and best of luck !

      petya

  • #194256
    Profile photo of treetops
    treetops
    Participant

    Hi Petya,

    I focused on south costa blanca as i know the area having previously owned an apartment there which I sold in 2012.  I went out with an open mind, my husband wanted to invest in spain, I was more pro investing in florida but when Trump became president and having researched the overheads of owing a property in florida it wasn’t a runner.  We went on a three day trip organised by ourselves so we had a busy two days looking a properties which we organised via email to various agents.  One piece of advice and one thing we learned some “agents” actually don’t have an office but rather operate out of the back of their car so having met some I would be wary what agent you buy from – go with a long established practice that have a physical office not to say they can’t go belly up overnight either.  So on to property search we looked at a lot of properties which were in my opinion way over priced not good locations.  Your location is everything for us our criteria not far from sea, walk to shop, restaurant, bar etc. – you have to think form potential renters point of view.  From researching a 3 bed 2 bath with pool is what people look for.  The area we looked at was Orihuela Costa, Punta Prima, Playa Flamenca all around that area,  there is a lot of building going on and a lot of cube like villas being built up around Campoamor.   The La Zenia Boulevard is a big success story in that area and apart from the lovely beaches the area has to offer this shopping center has brought in a lot of tourism and employment, there seems to be a shortage of rentals in the area particularly for long term rentals.  We couldn’t believe the difference in 5 years since we sold our property.  Some of the bars that used to be there that were tacky have got a make over and are now more upmarket, area seems more established and overall upeat which we were happy about.  Even the hotel we stayed in brilliant location on the beach but it got a complete makeover and we were very impressed.  The villa we put a deposit on was our favourite even before we went to view and fingers crossed all will go according to plan for closing.  Some of the estate agents I won’t mention name but were telling us what to offer if we were interested in a particular property – they would not pass on an offer if they deemed it too low ball.  Lastly research the area yourself, make sure you would be happy to buy there, see what area has to offer, inform yourself of average price per sq met in area and view properties with an established agent.  I can pm you the name of agent we viewed with and feel happy dealing with.  We were cash buyers so I feel that helped in getting a discount, banks can mess around with finances.

     

    Good luck on your quest.

    • #198119
      Profile photo of drpetyag
      drpetyag
      Participant

      Treetops,

      Thanks for your detailed info, I hope your deal went through ! If I may ask how much below the initial price was your offer and was it accepted ? I hear anything 10-20 % below on average can do ?

      thanks

    • #198121
      Profile photo of treetops
      treetops
      Participant

      <h1 class=”entry-title”>drpetyag,</h1>
       

      Hi Petya,

      Initially we offered 13% below asking price and it was accepted this was based on good faith – we were informed all planning was up to date with permission form Urbanisation.  It transpired it was not but the Vendor is getting it sorted we hope to complete in May now but because of this delay we offered 16% below original asking price  – this was due to the delay in completion and we were out of pocket because of this – the vendor accepted our lower offer.  Fingers crossed all will go according to plan.  Just to reiterate we were not going for mortgage – we were ready to go buyers so we did not need to wait for bank approvals – just a pity the vendor was not ready to go.

  • #194264
    Profile photo of Mark Stücklin
    Mark Stücklin
    Keymaster

    Hi Treetops,

    Would you mind letting me know by PM you opinion of the agents you dealt with?

    Thanks in advance.

  • #194354
    Profile photo of BeeLazy
    BeeLazy
    Participant

    Treetops do you mind saying what you paid per sq mtr.  I had no sooner posted the €1300 when I read that  sought after properties are now edging up to €1600 per sq mtr in both Torrevieja and Orihuela Costa

     

    Bee

  • #194356
    Profile photo of treetops
    treetops
    Participant

    Hi Bee

     

    I will PM you.

  • #194394
    Profile photo of BeeLazy
    BeeLazy
    Participant

    Thanks Angela.

     

    Bee

  • #194449
    Profile photo of Capo1
    Capo1
    Participant

    Buying at the right price in Spain is easy providing you are prepared to be hard (not ridiculous) when you make an offer. We bought in Mijas (Malaga) in 2010. The agent showing us the house was at pains to explain that the owners had paid 730K Euros in 2003 and were now offering it for sale at 550K and that was rock bottom for them. To be fair, compared to everything else we had seen it looked good value. 800 sq mts site, three bedrooms, 3 bathrooms and a large heated pool. We eventually sealed a deal at 470K and have loved it for 6 summers. In September last year (2016) we sold at 600K. Our asking price was 695K and the 600 we accepted included the furniture. We had several offers around 550K which we rejected. The house was on the market for 12 months and the buyer interest increased dramatically in the last 6 months, especially from the Scandinavian countries. Since then we have bought again in Mijas. The new (not new) house is much larger, has a even bigger pool and is on 5000 sq mts with amazing views. We offered 23% below the asking price and despite the agent assuring us we had no chance of success, he presented the offer, and it was reluctantly accepted. We are fortunate in that we were cash buyers but that is not really the secret to success. Once you have found the right house you need to be nosey and prod the agent to find out why the vendor is selling and any other info that may help you.  The more you know the greater the power in your hands when you negotiate a buy price. Never listen to an agents opinion of what the property is worth. We bought both houses from the same agent. He is honest, trustworthy and runs a tight ship but in the end he just wants to make a sale. For both transactions we used a small law firm based in Marbella. He was happy to come to come and meet with us. Frankly, he has been a gem, speaks good English and I could sincerely recommend him.

  • #194817
    Profile photo of johnez
    johnez
    Participant

    Hi

    I have started to look at apartment in the surround areas at Torrevieja and in central Torrevieja.

    The intention is to have the apartment for vacation but I also want to be able to rent out the apartment.

    Is the prices seemed to hit the bottom now in Torrevieja?

    (The only statistic i have is for 2014 and then the prices was still declining in Torrevieja.)

    What areas in Torrevieja is best to buy if you want to rent out, central Torrevieja?

    How many days per year can you calculate to rent out the apartment?

    (When looking at airbnb is seems that apartments in Torrevieja is not booked at all during the vinter period)

    A lot of questions I had, but I would be very happy if I get answer from someone with experience about Spain/Costa blanca.

    Thanks

  • #197106
    Profile photo of Larquia
    Larquia
    Participant

    In my experience the €/sq m prices which appear in the listing in property websites are very misleading. They divide the selling price by the sq meters indicated in the add, however, there is not an uniform way to determine how many sq meters your property have. For example, some promotional ads include the living space and some other the living space plus a parking space. In spain is not unusual to sell the property with or without parking space. So when comparing, for example, two flats in the same gated community, one flat might seem cheaper than the other because one includes the parking space and the other does not.
    As a private investor with properties both in the UK and in Spain, I have faced the same issues than you are mentioning above, so I have decided that there is a gap in the market for a good buyer broker, i.e. somebody who acts solely in the interest of the buyer. Local state agents act in the name of the seller so their main interest is to sell the property so that the earn their commision. A buyer broker acts in the interest of the buyer, therefore, will compare prices in the market based in their knowledge of the market.
    I would suggest that you look into this route to avoid surprises.

  • #197115
    Profile photo of beechwood
    beechwood
    Participant

    Hi I have just come back from that area last week not sure what type of budget you are looking at but we were looking for a small holoday home we were a bit dissapointed with what we saw what i can only say is we saw a lot of old tat with prices all over the place , we how ever did find what we think is a little gem a property that is pristine we came back and negotiated from the UK and no we did not nick i we will be paying a decent price for a good property i am actually an estate agent over here its all about quality, and not so much price, focus on the property and not the discount good luck

  • #197454
    Profile photo of jp1
    jp1
    Participant

    Cap01,

    Call me sceptical but your story just not ring true.

    As an former and current multiple Spanish house owner, I have followed the Spanish market avidly since I first bought 15 years ago.

    According to Tinsa Spanish house prices fell by a total of 41.4% (46.8% inflation-adjusted) from Q4 2007 to Q3 2015.  And we all know the real figure was much higher, probably around 60%. Some of the largest falls in the latter years

    • In 2011, house prices fell 7.64% (-10.11% inflation-adjusted)
    • In 2012, house prices fell 12.05% (-14.67% inflation-adjusted)
    • In 2013, house prices fell 8.31% (-8.48% inflation-adjusted)

    But you claim over this period you have sold at profit of 28% !!!

    You go on to say that interest in your property had dramatically increased over the last 6 months implying an improving market, and thus only a small reduction (13%) from your asking price. But then when you have purchased later into an even more buoyant one you have negotiated a 23% reduction in asking price .

    You pedal the old adage about being a cash buyer. As a seller I would not care where you obtain your money from. It is one of those statements that people regurgitate to imply success or sophistication in ones financial affairs, without even for one second considering what it means.

    “Oh you don’t need to get a mortgage let me have the honour of giving my house away to you for 100k Euros less”  !!!

    I do not recognise the Spanish property market as you have described it !!

  • #197456
    Profile photo of Capo1
    Capo1
    Participant

    jp1

    You may be sceptical, but calling me a liar is downright insulting.

    Let me give the sceptic a few more details. Our first  property was in the urbanisation of Mijas la Nueva. The vendors paid 730K in 2003 and owed 483K to the Bank of Scotland by way of 1st mortgage. The house had been rented out and neglected and looked scruffy but most things were superficial. We bought in 2010 when owners were bailing out and the odd bargain presented itself. Everything else we looked at had an asking price of at least 150K more for an equivalent villa. In 2016 we sold to a lovely Danish couple for 600K including furniture. Yes, it took a year to sell but we were not in a hurry.  A 3 bed, 3.5 bath with an 8m x 4m pool on 830 sq mts of land, it was worth every penny of 600K.

    So to our new villa. The asking price was 1.1 M for a spectacular 350 sq mt  villa  on 5000 sq mts of landscaped gardens with amazing views over Fuengirola and the Med (also in Mijas). We offered 910K with conditions.  It was initially accepted but the vendor was unable to meet our conditions. We withdrew the offer and re-submitted at 870K without conditions (I’m a hard bastard). The vendor almost spat the dummy but reluctantly accepted. I am spending around 180K on remodelling the interior and I believe it will be worth 1.4M to the right buyer when I have finished. We have no intention  of selling in the short term anyway. This is our northern hemisphere retreat for 3 months of every year.

    All of the above is factual. I am not influenced or driven by statistical data. I leave that to people like you. Calling me a liar because I don’t fit into the right box is narrow minded bean counter mentality. In suggesting that an unconditional cash contract does not influence the vendors decision you are exhibiting the naivety of someone who has never been in the position to make a cash offer. Do you think our vendor would have accepted our offer if we had said “We may buy it at 870K, but we may not. We’ll let you know in a couple of months time”.  The Spanish property market (as you know it) is no different to any other. A willing and sometimes anxious seller, and a willing and sometimes hard nosed buyer are a deal in the making.

    • This reply was modified 4 months ago by Profile photo of Capo1 Capo1.
  • #197664
    Profile photo of jp1
    jp1
    Participant

    Since you added some extra detail…

    The Spanish House Price index was sitting at 1240 in Jan 2003 and 2283 in Dec 2010

    That broadly means your vendors having bought at 730k in 2003 would be sitting on a property worth 1.34 million, but they sold it to you for 470k!!!

    And the fact that you say everything else was 150k more than this 550 asking price (so 700k) has just highlighted your post is rubbish. All those similar properties would have been broadly at the index value as that is how it is calculated, so around 1.2 – 1.4 million

    I am sorry but your post makes absolutely no sense and having bought myself in 2003, 2005 and sold one property in 2009, I know what the market was doing.

     

     

  • #197665
    Profile photo of jp1
    jp1
    Participant

    Edited to add, I decided to challenge your post as it has one of those typical styles an agent posing as as genuine buyer may use.

  • #198406
    Profile photo of Capo1
    Capo1
    Participant

    @jp1

    Wrong yet again. I suspect you have had a miserable life of being wrong quite often. Each and every comment I have made is factual. Your data is fundamentally flawed. Tell your foolish bean counter stories to the countless Brit owners in the Costa del Sol who bought between 2001 and 2008, and who now cannot get their money back, that your Spanish House Price Index says they should be getting millions for their villas. Your ‘index’ is patently absurd.  It presumes that all sales are orderly and transact within a set of price guidelines.

    The GFC placed almost all Spanish property outside those guidelines, and for some sellers who could not wait, their sale price became a calamitous disaster. The house we bought fell squarely into that category. A desperate vendor and a cashed up buyer. But that can’t be right, can it ???  After all, your ‘Index’ says its not possible.

    Don’t you get tired of being ‘righteously correct’ all the time.

    • This reply was modified 3 months, 2 weeks ago by Profile photo of Capo1 Capo1.
  • #198444
    Profile photo of tm uno
    tm uno
    Participant

    hi all

    this is our very first post so please be gentle.

    we are looking at putting an offer on a villa in the tosalet fase 3 area it is on the market for 380k we are not sure what offer to make, it looks like it has been on the market for a while as it has been reduced.

    market conditions in javea?

  • #198448
    Profile photo of SurveySpain
    SurveySpain
    Participant

    As a RICS Chartered Surveyor, did anybody in this string have their property surveyed? Your lawyer can have the paperwork 100% correct, but they rarely visit the property and certainly don’t look for defects. Armed with a building survey report you can justifiably knock thousands off the price.

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