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Hi all
I wish I had come accross this forum 2 years ago! It’s been a real education and I’ve learnt a lot since I’ve been browsing the posts.
We bought off plan with Polaris nearly 2 years ago and are due to complete in August. Since we bought it, interest rates are up, £ is down so like many others we want out! We are considering pulling out before the completion date since we don’t seem to be able to sell. Has anybody done this? It would be extremely helpful to hear from others about their experiences or to have advice about what’s involved.
Cheers!
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Annoa, I have just come from PW HQ were I was representing a client who wishes to do the same for the very same reasons as you..
The rather helpful advice from the PW commercial was OK but you will lose your 40%. No amount of reasoning was taken into consideration and PW reminded our clients that they can force a completion by law.
In essence annoa, you will lose money, but if you have no choice then it will be the right decision for you.
My clients have decided to stay with their purchase and complete as they do not want to wal away from 120,000€.
PW did remind my clients that interest and exchange rate fluctuations were out of their control.
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Hi Peter
You posted ?
” PW reminded our clients that they can force a completion by law. “
This has been a question that has been on my mind for a long long time.
Surely a contract is between two parties and an obligation on both sides to fullfil that contract.
Now because the market has fallen or people paid deposits on impulse of for financial gain then why should the developer or the banks pick up the tab.Just Frank 8)
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Hi annoa,
I know of several PW buyers who have just returned their contract and not used a lawyer at all.
Most buyers live in the UK and have no intention of coming to Spain to live, or buy again.
You could weigh up whether it is worth spending anymore on leagal fees just to cancel, or gamble that a lawyer could get some of your deposit back.
I don´t know of anyone who has cancelled for your reasons that has received anything at all.
I do know several who have flipped their contract for far less than they have invested already. One instance where a buyer from Southern Ireland paid 89,600€ on an apartment costing 224,000€ in total. He took 30,000€. In his case he had been virtually ruined by investments in Dublin and he was glad to receive the cash.
The other alternative is to continue to market your property up till August (when you say it will be ready) This will take you through the summer where traditionally sales happen!! The odds are PW will be late in completing your property giving you more time to sell.
I suspect the situation regarding PW resales will continue until the Murcia Corvera airport opens in 2010. If you can hang on until then, I´m sure your chances of selling, (even at a modest profit) will be greatly increased.
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@Just Frank wrote:
Hi Peter
You posted ?
” PW reminded our clients that they can force a completion by law. “
This has been a question that has been on my mind for a long long time.
Surely a contract is between two parties and an obligation on both sides to fullfil that contract.
Now because the market has fallen or people paid deposits on impulse of for financial gain then why should the developer or the banks pick up the tab.Just Frank 8)
Yes Frank, it goes without saying that whatever business people are involved in, most would not refund because the client needs the money back. Even those with the highest rated customer service levels would probably only give a credit note, or allow the purchaser to choose another product. It is commercial suicide to just give back money.
If you look at the PW busiess model, their plan revolves around taking 40% up-front followed by 60% 2 years later. What we see now is not only are PW not collecting their 60%, they are being asked for the 40% back too.
I estimate there are well over 2,000 clients attempting this (please don´t ask me to give proof I have non but my gut feelings) what kind of damage does that do to a companys business plan and cash flow????
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When a developer says “complete or lose your deposit” there is a difference in the two situations of
a) the property has all (undisputed and legal) documents including the LFO
and
b) when the building licence is suspended under judicial review (or non-existent) and there is no LFO.In situation b) developers still try this threat of complete or lose your deposit and now even judges are ruling that purchasers must complete in their court cases.
This despite Spanish law saying you are not legally obliged to complete without an LFO. And this when properties later could be deemed illegal and could end up under threat of demolition.
It’s a scary mess.If I was forced by a judge to complete on an illegal-status property that had no LFO, and it was later threatened with demolition, I would sue the pants off the judge – even if it took my last penny.
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I totally agree Charlie.
Forcing a completion of an illegal property is nothing short of scandalous. Total infringement of all human rights, I can see Mugabe doing it but, Zapatera is allowing this to happen in this country and therefore has no right to lecture other despots about moral and ethical policy.
Political decisions on all sorts of difficult and borderline cases such as Human Embryos and Forcing aid on Burma are where political skills and debate win a politician accolades, but, one would think that allowing innocent foreign buyers to be robbed by rogues and then have the legal system force them to part with more money to complete the robbery is at the very heart of a disturbed in incapeable regime. How can these politicians judge the pros and cons of embryo cross fertilisation when they can´t see right from wrong???
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Having read at the week-end, with our own eyes, a judgement on a “black & white” case in Marbella, it is outrageous, disgusting, immoral, and as our lawyer said “crazy” all the reasons the Judge found against the plaintives. A judgement given whilst the judge played on his mobile phone!! We spoke to the persons concerned and they actually attended the court case. They may at some stage, write about their experience on the forum.
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Peter Good said
”one would think that allowing innocent foreign buyers to be robbed by rogues and then have the legal system force them to part with more money to complete the robbery is at the very heart of a disturbed in incapeable regime.”
……..this is so so true, and i think the fact this has gone on for so long has severly damaged Spains reputation as a fair place to buy. The credit crunch is salt in the wound.
several of us on this forum have shown much anger about this, and we have had many sensible replies, but also to my disbelief have had replies like…… ‘it’s your own fault’……. ‘you got what you asked for’……’you’re a doom monger’……you’re being negative…..you’re bitter because you lost the gamble.
what a load of tosh!!. Many people are simply screwed by some agents/developers/lawyers/councils etc, and then after going through hoops to find an honest lawyer, are forced to go to court when it’s blatantly obvious who is in the wrong, only to face the lottery of a judge who will do the right thing!!
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Hi Charlie 🙂
You posted
If I was forced by a judge to complete on an illegal-status property that had no LFO, and it was later threatened with demolition, I would sue the pants off the judge – even if it took my last penny.
Problem is Charlie that I have this feeling thats just what they want with many falling by the wayside due to the total one way street they find themselves in
Developers = No money
Banks = No money
Government = Soon to have no money
Purchasers = No money left as they have and are being continually screwed.
JUDGES 😈 Think we all know that they is one lottery that there is going to be very few winners.Just Frank 8)
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Same development, two different purchasers, identical cases.
One judge tells the developer to return the deposit, that the purchaser should not be penalised as a result of the problems (corruption) going on in the Town Hall.
Another judge for the other case rules the purchaser must complete because the developer should not be penalised because of the problems in the Town Hall.Such inconsistencies (and blatant unfairness) in rulings in Spanish courts just make the Spanish judiciary a laughing stock, and make a mockery of all the laws in place to protect purchasers. No doubt someone will now say the same thing goes on in English courts, but for me that’s irrelevant and doesn’t change what is happening in Spain.
Isn’t the second judge forgetting something? The corruption in the Town Hall is the result of bribes being received for building licences. And who has been paying the bribes – the flippin’ developers.
IMO some of these judges need a good smacking …….and sacking.
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@charlie wrote:
IMO some of these judges need a good smacking …….and sacking.
I´ve heard that UK judges and politicians pay good money for that kind of thing Charlie 😕
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annao wrote:Thanks for your reply. It is a big decision; big loss now or try and wait it out. Do you know if they are going to charge any admin fees? Do we need our solicitor to be involved?
What is the difference between comparable apartments on sale and the price in your contract? Is it bigger than the deposit you pay?
If yes, then losing the deposit is the lower loss. If no, you can still wait and maybe miracles happen…
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I have come across a company that will take on purchase contracts from PW clients and most other legal developments in Spain and pay a small fee of 1,000€ to 5,000€ that will negate any future involvment and obligation for the present distressed owners.
I am checking out their genuinity with a test case and will report back on the findings if anyone is interested!
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@ralita wrote:
What is the difference between comparable apartments on sale and the price in your contract? Is it bigger than the deposit you pay?
If yes, then losing the deposit is the lower loss. If no, you can still wait and maybe miracles happen…
PW are still marketing the appartments at Alhama at the same price I bought at. We were there in early May and they were saying that nearly all the appartments were sold….of course no mention that several buyers wanted to pull out!
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Thanks for the info everyone…. I need to collect all our documents from our lawyer, so I will add this one to the list to check. I am hopeful we have it as it was such a procedure to get electrics in, and there were lots of conversations between our lawyers and Sevillana. Still, nothing is straightforward in Spain, and often not as it should be. Forums like this are so useful… what should I do now if we don’t have this LFO – assuming I can get one retrospectively??? Better to be aware now as we only manage to get down at the moment for short trips and always have so much to do and sort out when over.
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If he refuses to complete or cannot copmplete then I think they are within their rights to cancel the contract for non-performance. He forfiets his deposit and they are still the legal owners and can sell on
I know you can get 50% discounts on some of their stock – I cant be bothered to promote it any more as there is litte interest, but I know a man who can help on that one!
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Hi Annao
As Charlie said
‘When a developer says “complete or lose your deposit” there is a difference in the two situations of
a) the property has all (undisputed and legal) documents including the LFO……………………………………I think that your property won’t have LFO on October so tell your lawyer that you will want your monies back plus interests. The first day of October he should send a certified letter to the developer communicating that they are late. After, he should start with the execution of your bank guarantee. Your lawyer shouldn’t ask you for extra money otherwise you can complain directly to the Bar association. If your lawyer were from Murcia I’ll give you the email of our Dean in the Murcia Bar association. By the way, have you got the original, I mean in your hands, of a valid bank guarantee covering all the money, reservation fee included, that you’ve paid ?
Surely your contract state
‘at the request of the seller at any time following completion of the Property, which shall be deemed completed on issuance of the habitation certificate’
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I know you can get 50% discounts on some of their stock – I cant be bothered to promote it any more as there is litte interest, but I know a man who can help on that one!
Do you mean that you know someone who sells contracts on, or just sells PW properties? Would be interested if anybody could put me in touch with anybody who could sell our contract!
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