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Having read this paper for years and having given contributions to John Arlidge who exposed Spain’s property mis-selling, I have to say that a polite request to their Editor to give a more balanced section that doesn’t always show the expensive properties in the UK and Abroad has been met with very unhelpful responses from someone called Helen Davies there.
It seems even this traditional paper is all about generating money from advertisers now and dis-inclined to show the real problems with property even though it’s at odds with the Paper’s own economists’ views!
However this weekend they will be advertising loads of overseas boltholes at under £250k which with current exchange rates as well as a recession on, which they’ve forgotten, are still likely to be not worth buying not to mention the extortionate completion costs.
And sod it’s readers to boot! No more Sunday Times for me! 😛
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@angie wrote:
Having read this paper for years and having given contributions to John Arlidge who exposed Spain’s property mis-selling, I have to say that a polite request to their Editor to give a more balanced section that doesn’t always show the expensive properties in the UK and Abroad has been met with very unhelpful responses from someone called Helen Davies there.
It seems even this traditional paper is all about generating money from advertisers now and dis-inclined to show the real problems with property even though it’s at odds with the Paper’s own economists’ views!
However this weekend they will be advertising loads of overseas boltholes at under £250k which with current exchange rates as well as a recession on, which they’ve forgotten, are still likely to be not worth buying not to mention the extortionate completion costs.
And sod it’s readers to boot! No more Sunday Times for me! 😛
Soon they will start charging for the online version of Times. They even want to disallow Google access ot any of the Times article.
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There was a time flosmichael, not long ago, when the Sunday Times used to be the most pro-active of all British Papers in exposing the truths about property scams.
Now, it’s all about advertising revenues since they like many papers lost a lot of revenue with the global property slump.
They are not interested in medium priced properties, only what the majority can’t afford, and they are more than happy to take revenue from the likes of Foxtons who act rather like Ocean Estates used to in Spain before they were found out.
I would not pay to read their online paper. 😉
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angie wrote:Having read this paper for years and having given contributions to John Arlidge who exposed Spain’s property mis-selling, I have to say that a polite request to their Editor to give a more balanced section that doesn’t always show the expensive properties in the UK and Abroad has been met with very unhelpful responses from someone called Helen Davies there.
It seems even this traditional paper is all about generating money from advertisers now and dis-inclined to show the real problems with property even though it’s at odds with the Paper’s own economists’ views!
However this weekend they will be advertising loads of overseas boltholes at under £250k which with current exchange rates as well as a recession on, which they’ve forgotten, are still likely to be not worth buying not to mention the extortionate completion costs.
And sod it’s readers to boot! No more Sunday Times for me! 😛
Sorry what else do you expect from a Murdoch newspaper, money, profit that is all his group thinks about. I warned last week about the “green shoots brigade” agents ,media local and international who are seeing rich pickings from commenting on the attractiveness of Spanish property.
The only newspaper that seems to be reasonably truthful is the Daily Telegraph, which maintains a pessimistic line on world economies. Although they have just started a big campaign for the Junta Andaluza stating how wonderful Andalucia is for holidays.
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The Telegraph truthful 😯 cast your mind back a few years to their glowing write ups about the latest B celeb to be buying in some crappy development or just a couple of years ago they were telling us to buy now and earn 30% before completion! They are all the same, advertising revenue rules. They don’t even have real journalists anymore, ever wondered why all the papers carry the same stories almost word for word, it is all copied from press releases and they print without checking. Most of the time we are fed rubbish. ok the Telegraph were good with the MP’s expenses but the property pages !!
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Have not read the Independent yet but might try it, anyone think that might be better?
Agree with the replies on here, that generally all the newspapers now are only interested in advertising revenues or sensational stories.
Interesting how few real life property miseries are being mentioned now by them, that’s because these papers realised they were shooting their revenues in the feet. The trouble is, these papers like the Times, now seem quite happy to not tell about the facts and pitfalls when purchasing property in the UK and abroad, which in turn is misleading people into buying too early again.
The fact is, Gov’ts and Banks are being accused right now of creating asset bubbles again which are unsustainable and will burst again, in order to increase their revenues again. So said the Sunday Times own Business section last week, so the paper is completely at odds with itself!!!
As I said earlier, the S.Times were once a good and responsible paper for exposes but not anymore, even Mark’s regular features appear to have stopped.
No more Times 😡
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When the credit and property boom was in full swing in early 2007, the greedy Sunday Times increased it’s price twice in a few months thinking it could get away with it. Then the crunch came and they’ve not increased since, yet, but probably will.
At two quid a time on Sunday, and 5 euros abroad for a thin version, I dropped the weekday editions, then dropped the Sunday Times because week in week out it’s the same old advertisers aiming at the affluent, same old contributors and very biased in it’s views. They also stopped their previous good work uncovering scams abroad.
As 135 years said, Murdoch is only interested in profit, greedy git!!!!!!!!!!!! Just needs a few hundred thousand now to stop buying their papers:shock: 😡
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@Paul wrote:
Murdoch is only interested in profit, greedy git!
Disgusting. When did anyone run a business to make money?
I am not saying I am a supporter of his, but what a stupid statement.
If your business could get away with increasing prices, bet it would. -
Nothing wrong with profit Timmy so long as it’s not gained by misleading advertising or media tripe designed to part the unwary of their cash as many buying abroad have in the past.
Now, the topic was I believe about how the Sunday Times used to be pro-active once in uncovering the rogues but now appears only interested in it’s revenues, and if so the whole culture of property deception is likely to start all over again.
I stand by my comment about Murdoch though 😆
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charlie
with all we know now, surely nobody could be stupid enough to think that the relative amount of greed involved in buying a property and hoping it will go up in value , is in any way comparable with the greed, lies and deception of the well known many crooks involved in selling Spanish property.
…..or could they?
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So Timmy sounds like someone involved in this property deception, quite likely an agent by the way he’s talking after all it’s the agents who always end up blaming buyers for greed when it’s the buyers who have been conned by the greedy agents. Don’t forget Timmy, you’re supposed to act professionally and with due dilligence if you’re an agent, but of course that’s not heard of in Spain, is it?
BTW the greedy Murdoch is now threatening to sue the BBC for pinching what he believes is his news material. I’m sure the Beeb has it’s own researchers to gather information.
Trying the Guardian and Independent for a change from the biased Sunday Times. 😉
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@angie wrote:
So Timmy sounds like someone involved in this property deception, quite likely an agent by the way he’s talking
Couldn’t be further from the truth, but then, there are always those who like to think that they know things and even some who think know all.
Found one here I believe?@angie wrote:
Don’t forget Timmy, you’re supposed to act professionally and with due dilligence if you’re an agent,
If I was, I would.
Hope others on here can say the same.@angie wrote:
Murdoch is now threatening to sue the BBC for pinching what he believes is his news material.
But often not as efficient as getting hold of it, hence the potential legal action.
Srely you have seen the clips on BBC with the SKY logo on?@angie wrote:
Trying the Guardian and Independent for a change from the biased Sunday Times.
So just how long has it taken you to “see the light”?
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@goodstich44 wrote:
charlie
with all we know now, surely nobody could be stupid enough to think that the relative amount of greed involved in buying a property and hoping it will go up in value , is in any way comparable with the greed, lies and deception of the well known many crooks involved in selling Spanish property.
…..or could they?From what I was informed as recently as last week, I am afraid that there are some that fall for it and despite all the warnings and pain experienced by some (even on here). They can offer an excuse that the fraud, swindles etc., were not brought to peoples attention 5 or 10 years ago, but surely, if some fall for it now they must only have themselves to blame?
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Good for you Jimmy for not being an agent, but you do sound as if you’ve a vested interest in the Spanish market.
No chance of me falling for their scams again, but plenty of chance for me to warn others as many do on here! Look, there will always be newbies who will end up falling for the agents’ scams, there will be those who don’t know of sites like this still.
Regarding ‘seeing the light’, I’d already said the S. Times used to be about the most pro-active that’s why I stuck with it, but will now change.
Yes the Beeb does have it’s own researchers as well.
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I read but didn’t buy the Sunday Times just to see what this property article was like for overseas boltholes for under £250k. Poor!
What rubbish, hardly any properties at all, and those advertised still looked so overpriced, admittedly there was hardly a mention of Spanish property, but if you don’t mind paying a transatlantic airfare you could buy a not so cheap Carribean property or two, or even risk a Turkish property.
Once again the same old advertisers, nothing new really. 😉
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gus-lopez wrote:Timmy wrote:So, there’s not much hope then, based on the evidence!!!
You’ve hit the nail on the head there.You only have to look at the amount of people who have no idea of the tax on fuel or cigarettes to see that there is an avalanche of new buyers just waiting to be scammed. 🙁
People in general have short memories. I expect the worldwide economic
problems to last another two years at least, if then the world economy recovers the lemmings will come out again leaving their brains in airports or aboard the Ryanair flight. Fast talkers will leave the “never paint your house again ” industry or whatever the hot market is at the moment and make Spain sound like a the new Utopia , 1000 times better than the original one. The lambs will be lead to the slaughter just like the good/bad old days. -
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@katy wrote:
I bet Claire, Charley, Goodstitch etc. will be around to remind them 8)
😆
We do our best, despite being slagged off at times for doing so!Was in Uk recently and sitting with a group of friends (in a cosy Devon pub by the fire discussing ideas for retirement…… 🙄 ) the subject of Spain came up. Immediately someone piped up “Oh wouldn’t ever risk buying there, they – including the Government – are just a load of bandits”.
So the message is spreading. Thought ‘bandits’ the perfect description.
They couldn’t believe it when I said the Government still demand taxes on properties they deem illegal.
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charlie
I know what you mean. When I tell people of some of the horror stories that are now virtually considered, ‘normal’ in Spain, they look at me as though I was completely barking mad even considering buying there!
The message is getting through, but I wonder how many people realise just how bad it can still be when following the rules, doing the homework, being a fellow EU country etc?. I bet many think things are vastly exagerated or blown out of proportion?
….if only eh!!
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@Timmy wrote:
Please come back in 10 years time and report, this recession has been forgotten….
Don’t need to come back in 10 years to predict how it will be. The recession may be forgotten by then, but am sure the corruption will still be ‘business as usual’ which is what we are talking about. And no doubt people will still be blaming Franco.
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The point is that the property market slump in Spain began a long time before the recession so did the drop in the number of tourists. I would say the writing was on the wall over two years ago when estate agents began shutting their doors.
The spanish media and politicians blame all spains woes on the “crisis” but it would have happened on the Costas anyway. If we are still around on this forum in 10 years time It will be intersting to see who said wot 😆
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@charlie wrote:
@Timmy wrote:
Please come back in 10 years time and report, this recession has been forgotten….
Don’t need to come back in 10 years to predict how it will be. The recession may be forgotten by then, but am sure the corruption will still be ‘business as usual’ which is what we are talking about. And no doubt people will still be blaming Franco.
But still buying.
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@katy wrote:
I would say the writing was on the wall over two years ago
Sorry to disagree with that, but double it.
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Timmy
the recession may get forgotten in 10 years?, but short of demolition on a grand scale, the thousands of unwanted/decaying buildings and massive debts run up now, will be a constant reminder of the greed and corruption that put Spain’s costa’s where they are today.
katy
yes, I even think the world recession has masked Spains problems to some degree, and shifted far to much blame. How else could it have ended, knowing what we do now?
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@katy wrote:
The point is that the property market slump in Spain began a long time before the recession….
The spanish media and politicians blame all spains woes on the “crisis” but it would have happened on the Costas anyway.
Agree Katy.
Spain depended too much on construction, greed resulted in a (ugly) glut. It was bound to eventually fall flat on its face regardless of recession. -
@goodstich44 wrote:
Timmy
the recession may get forgotten in 10 years?, but short of demolition on a grand scale, the thousands of unwanted/decaying buildings and massive debts run up now, will be a constant reminder of the greed and corruption that put Spain’s costa’s where they are today.But still the Brits will buy.
Remember, developers will just leave the eyesores they once created and take their new customers to the new development Kms away. Do you think the people they show around no (and there are still many) get taken to the earlier unsold and illegal development?
If so, that is naivity. -
@Timmy wrote:
@goodstich44 wrote:
Timmy
the recession may get forgotten in 10 years?, but short of demolition on a grand scale, the thousands of unwanted/decaying buildings and massive debts run up now, will be a constant reminder of the greed and corruption that put Spain’s costa’s where they are today.But still the Brits will buy.
Remember, developers will just leave the eyesores they once created and take their new customers to the new development Kms away. Do you think the people they show around no (and there are still many) get taken to the earlier unsold and illegal development?
If so, that is naivity.Have you looked on Google Earth at Spanish coast? Except some few National Parks, almost all the land in the vicinity of the Sea is now covered with buildings.
Where are they going to build in 10 years from now? Do you imply that many of the current developments will become ghost urbanization, deserted in a few years from now, demolished in 5-6 years and then new stuff build again in 10 years from now?
If yes, who would be stupid enough to buy now anything (ghost urbanization can appear anywhere)?
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@flosmichael wrote:
Have you looked on Google Earth at Spanish coast? Except some few National Parks, almost all the land in the vicinity of the Sea is now covered with buildings.
So you believe that people will only buy on an urbanisation overlooking the ocean?
Think again.
No need for GoogleEarth, just drive around and see how many inland developments there are.
Pick an area, say Costa Blanca. Ever heard of Rojales, Catral, Dolores, etc.,?
What about the development which was porposed at Jumilla. Think in 10 years time that may not be looked at again?@flosmichael wrote:
Where are they going to build in 10 years from now? Do you imply that many of the current developments will become ghost urbanization, deserted in a few years from now, demolished in 5-6 years and then new stuff build again in 10 years from now?
With the very poor standard of construction on many developments, do you envisage that all the housing stock constructed in the last decade will be structurally sound and suitable for habitation in say 15-20 years?
Many developments not more that 5 years old have huge numbers of properties with structural defects now and are unable to get the developers (if still in business) to act.
One good point is that there should be hardcore available in abundance 😆 -
@Timmy wrote:
@flosmichael wrote:
Have you looked on Google Earth at Spanish coast? Except some few National Parks, almost all the land in the vicinity of the Sea is now covered with buildings.
So you believe that people will only buy on an urbanisation overlooking the ocean?
Think again.
No need for GoogleEarth, just drive around and see how many inland developments there are.
Pick an area, say Costa Blanca. Ever heard of Rojales, Catral, Dolores, etc.,?
What about the development which was porposed at Jumilla. Think in 10 years time that may not be looked at again?@flosmichael wrote:
Where are they going to build in 10 years from now? Do you imply that many of the current developments will become ghost urbanization, deserted in a few years from now, demolished in 5-6 years and then new stuff build again in 10 years from now?
With the very poor standard of construction on many developments, do you envisage that all the housing stock constructed in the last decade will be structurally sound and suitable for habitation in say 15-20 years?
Many developments not more that 5 years old have huge numbers of properties with structural defects now and are unable to get the developers (if still in business) to act.
One good point is that there should be hardcore available in abundance 😆I have not been to Rojales, Catral, Dolores but many others have been there and bought there and now they do not know what to do with the properties there…
Look at rental/sale sites, there are hundreds/thousands of properties in South Costa Blanca for rent/sale and nobody wants to buy/rent them…Those properties will sell for peanuts if anybody could be bothered…
Thanks God the developments of Jumilla type were abandoned, one cannot play with water resources forever. They will never be looked again as nobody will be interested, there be will be enough derelict developments of Polaris Woirld type.
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@Timmy wrote:
No need for GoogleEarth, just drive around and see how many inland developments there are.
Who would buy a holiday house at 50-60 km from the Sea? It is too hot during the Summer and too cold over the Winter. Inland development have no value for holiday house, except if they are in some nice areas of Pirinees or maybe around Madrid, Barcelona or Granada.
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@flosmichael wrote:
Who would buy a holiday house at 50-60 km from the Sea?
Try asking some of the hundreds of thousands that do and have.
Do you honestly believe that everyone, 100% of the population, only go on holiday because they are close to the sea?
If so, you have a sheltered life.
Do you know of such things as lakes, mountains, countryside, golf, etc., which, this may come as a shock to you, many millions worlwide enjoy.
I can now understand how easy it may be for rogue developers. Buy a bit of scrub land with a sea view. Throw up some not so good buildings. Market that they are “dream” homes WITH SEA VIEW, and the Brits line up to buy.
Do you believe that all tourists to say Italy or France all head towards the coast?
Do you believe that homes in UK, if close to the sea, are more costly than rural locations, irrespective of quality of the premises and their surroundings? -
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interestingly, most of the off-plans that were marketed to the british and other nationalities only started to become popular with many ‘viewing visit’ agencies when properties on the coast were becoming more expensive. That seems to be when agencies X, Y & Z started to sell them. And the sales pitch? half the prize and only 30 minutes from the coast.
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Timmy
so i’m naive and flosmichael has had a sheltered life, just because we don’t share your opinion?
Some will buy inland of course, but the majority of buyers I think still want ‘a home by the sea’ and as has been said, those desirable locations (and some not so desirable) and land sites some distance behind them, are well and truly built on. What with that and the now available info’ on the potential and real problems involved with Spanish property ownership, I’m not convinced history will repeat itself?. I don’t see another boom, just a return one day when the dust has settled to pre-boom buying at best?. Who knows for sure though?
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@Timmy wrote:
@flosmichael wrote:
Who would buy a holiday house at 50-60 km from the Sea?
Try asking some of the hundreds of thousands that do and have.
Do you honestly believe that everyone, 100% of the population, only go on holiday because they are close to the sea?
If so, you have a sheltered life.
Do you know of such things as lakes, mountains, countryside, golf, etc., which, this may come as a shock to you, many millions worlwide enjoy.
I can now understand how easy it may be for rogue developers. Buy a bit of scrub land with a sea view. Throw up some not so good buildings. Market that they are “dream” homes WITH SEA VIEW, and the Brits line up to buy.
Do you believe that all tourists to say Italy or France all head towards the coast?
Do you believe that homes in UK, if close to the sea, are more costly than rural locations, irrespective of quality of the premises and their surroundings?Answers to some of your questions:
– Murcia or Alicante inland is not the same as Toscana or Piedmonte or Province inland. Read more about the differences.
– I myself prefer to go holidaying inland but most of the people go to the mountains in the Alps and Pirynees (maybe Sierra Nevada too). Not so many go to the mountains in Murcia/Almeria/Alicante. I ski, hike, rock climbing, paraglide, river raft, activities whi can hardly be done next to the Sea. Do you practice any of these or you are too busy flipping properties?
The rest of your questions really are answerless.
Are you another of Frank’s clones by the way? 😆
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@Fuengi wrote:
interestingly, most of the off-plans that were marketed to the british and other nationalities only started to become popular with many ‘viewing visit’ agencies when properties on the coast were becoming more expensive. That seems to be when agencies X, Y & Z started to sell them. And the sales pitch? half the prize and only 30 minutes from the coast.
And then Turkey, Morocco and Egypt became popular too, sold with the same pitch “half/quarter the prize” of Spanish equivalent…
It really should be obvious that most people who bought inland bought there because the coastal prices were too high, not because they decided to buy inland.
Same with the ski resorts, everybody would like to buy next to the gondola but would also gladly pay 1/2 for an apartment 2 kilometers away…
Sour grapes, sour grapes…
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@flosmichael wrote:
Do you practice any of these
Yes and perfected to quite a high standard.
@flosmichael wrote:
you are too busy flipping properties?
Why does ignorance of fact result in ignorance of attitude on here?
@flosmichael wrote:
too busy flipping properties?
Never “flipped” a property in my life and never found the need to. Don’t you realise that true investors are wise investors, therefore, tend not to sell their investments when they are lucrative?
PS. As you are ignorant to the facts regarding myself, I do have a premises in Spain. Not for letting short or long term. For my sole use. Not on an urbanisation.
I never considered the property market (other than commercial properties) to be a good investment opportunity in Spain, so have never been tempted to enter a market which I considered more of a gamble than an investment. -
@Timmy wrote:
ignorance of attitude on here?
Never “flipped” a property in my life and never found the need to. Don’t you realise that true investors are wise investors, therefore, tend not to sell their investments when they are lucrative?
In my book True Investor = somebody who makes tons of money from the investment.
They sell when the price is high and buy again when the price is low.Good luck with your lucrative investments.
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@flosmichael wrote:
In my book True Investor = somebody who makes tons of money from the investment.
They sell when the price is high and buy again when the price is low.Good luck with your lucrative investments.
Sorry, but your “book” is wrong and you are obviously not a serious investor yourself.
Why on earth would any property investment person or company sell any property when it is making money.
‘Property’ people buy and not sell. It is a timely cycle and if you have not the funds, don’t play the game, as you will end up like so many now find themselves in.Buy the dream holiday home, then the market collapses. No buyers out there and nobody seeking to rent. The outcome being it does not ‘wash its face’.
Thank you for your good wishes with my own investments. 😉
Unfortunately for some at present the market is dire, but for the purchasers it is party time. Exact same as the last recession.
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@flosmichael wrote:
buy again when the price is low.
So what does a yield have to be to consider a low price?
Remember, some property sectors are no selling at yields lower that a couple of years ago, subject to the covenants of the tenants.
To the Euro currency companies, there is a huge attraction at present in the UK market, for obvious reasons, therefore, prices are increasing week by week in some sectors.
You must be aware of that, the evidence is there for all to see. -
@Timmy wrote:
@flosmichael wrote:
In my book True Investor = somebody who makes tons of money from the investment.
They sell when the price is high and buy again when the price is low.Good luck with your lucrative investments.
Sorry, but your “book” is wrong and you are obviously not a serious investor yourself.
Why on earth would any property investment person or company sell any property when it is making money.
‘Property’ people buy and not sell. It is a timely cycle and if you have not the funds, don’t play the game, as you will end up like so many now find themselves in.Buy the dream holiday home, then the market collapses. No buyers out there and nobody seeking to rent. The outcome being it does not ‘wash its face’.
Thank you for your good wishes with my own investments. 😉
Unfortunately for some at present the market is dire, but for the purchasers it is party time. Exact same as the last recession.
Hi Tim,
you are perfectly right, I am not a serious investor as I lack the serious money (was lucky though 4-5 times to buy/sell at the right moment in some countries).
But I know the theory. 😆
I agree with everything else you wrote in the last 2 postings.
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