- This topic has 106 replies, 21 voices, and was last updated 14 years, 4 months ago by
.
-
Posts
-
-
A question, because I’m confused.
I’ve just read that the Conservatives polled as many votes as Tony Blair did in 2005 – but back then it was sufficient to deliver Labour a 66-seat majority.
So what happened this time round, that the Tories didn’t end up with even a small majority?
Was it all down to the tinkering with constituency boundaries?
If so, was that Labour’s doing or an all-party-agreed activity?
-
-
-
-
@katy wrote:
I am confused too. Something wrong with a system that gave
Labour 29% of the vote =258 seats
Lib-dem 23% of the vote = 57 seatsWTF!!
This is exactly why the Lib-Dems are trying to get the PR.
Lib Dems got 23 per cent of the vote and with PR would get 23 per cent of the seats in the Commons (150 MPs).
On the other hand, BNP got 562,000 votes with no seat. Under PR they would get at least 10.
-
flosmichael – what you say is absolutely right, the share of seats v. votes is totally unfair.
Unfortunately, with PR there would be permanently a ‘hung’ situation where no-one would have a majority to govern – everything would rely on deals between the parties. Too many concessions does not always lead to strong government but a hotch-potch of different ideas trying to appease everyone. So I personally don’t think unadulterated PR is the answer, maybe a compromise of both systems.What we’re seeing now is a micro-version of what PR would be like and it will be interesting to see the outcome. And currently this is only negotiations between two parties, imagine the problems when it involves several.
Just hearing the Welsh, Scottish and Irish willing to help with a coalition but issuing their ‘shopping lists’ including demands for 100’s of million of pounds proves to me self-interest will always reign as a priority before the interests of the country. Whereas PR does work in some countries, it seems British politicians are unable to kick their self-interest into touch and simply do what is best for the country as against what is best for their own parties. 35 billion wiped off the FTSE on Friday because of the uncertainty re. the outcome of this election – frightening. I just wish the times were not so serious while this is going on.In normal times, there isn’t the pressure to get agreements or worry too much about concessions. Unfortunately we’re in the middle of this crisis with this huge debt to face and manage. And again, unfortunately the gap between the parties as to how this should be handled is great. The Tories – start dealing with it now. The Lib Dems – leave it until next year.
In my mind, our voting system is not priority right now. Getting it right re. how to handle this crisis is. That should be the prority of all negotiations going on. If the Lib Dems dig their heels in over demanding PR as a condition for a coalition, they should be booted back to oblivion where they would deservedly belong if that is their criteria.
In my mind, fiddling with the boundaries has brought on this situation and I feel this solution could be helped by making each constituency having approx. equal number of voters. The Lib Dems would also benefit from this.
‘Fiddling while Rome burns’ – let’s hope these negotiations don’t last too long. The markets don’t take hostages.
-
I agree that the economy should be the no.1 priority at the moment, and hope that the different parties can come to a rapid agreement to start send a clear message to the markets, and do everything possible to bring the UK economy back to health ASAP.
However, I do feel that this constant worrying about the markets is somewhat inappropriate, I understand the reasons why we need to keep the “markets” confident. And, I guess it is essential at this time. I would though, like to see the UK able to start governing itself without this constant unelected influence. It’s starting to feel as though the markets have control over a significant portion of world politics, and this just feels wrong to me. It’s about time that governments worked towards significantly reducing this dependence on credit for government financing.
As for PR, I rather like the idea that no single party has a clear majority. Sure, it means that the party(s) in power cannot easily force through legislation, but this seems appropriate to me. I don’t see why it is acceptable for a party to be able to force through any & all legislation. It is obviously more difficult to get cross party support in a hung situation, but I feel that this is the nature of democracy, legislation should be passed because most MP’s agree with it, rather than because a party whips the members to fall into line. Maybe this way people could vote for the best MP to represent them, rather than just a party.
-
Now we are being shafted like Gordon did to the Icelanders. As ye sow , so shall ye reap !
-
I’m not really clear how that story has anything to do with this topic, but it’s interesting to read. Especially as the news coverage that I heard this morning was reporting that the UK is refusing to participate in the new bail out initiative.
However this on the pinko politically biased BBC, and not the strictly impartial Telegraph 😀
-
-
-
-
One of the aftermaths is the bloody awful news channels. Breaking News…Brown has gone to church, Cameron has gone to buy a newspaper yadda yadda 😈 Lots of highly paid journalists trying to guestimate what will happen. Bit more breaking news NOW. Brown has left the FO and crossed over the road and entered his own front door 🙄
-
@katy wrote:
One of the aftermaths is the bloody awful news channels. Breaking News…Brown has gone to church, Cameron has gone to buy a newspaper yadda yadda 😈 Lots of highly paid journalists trying to guestimate what will happen. Bit more breaking news NOW. Brown has left the FO and crossed over the road and entered his own front door 🙄
More breaking wind than breaking news
-
Talking of ‘breaking wind”, I think this man is full of it.
At the weekend, Gordon Brown sent an e-mail to Labour supporters in which he wrote:“My resolve has not, and will not, change. I pledged to do everything in my power to fight for the people of this country – to secure the recovery, to protect their livelihoods and to continue to fight for a future fair for all.”
Hasn’t anyone told him he lost the election? 😯
Gordon Brown going into Downing Street yesterday by the rear entrance -
-
I’m not so sure if it will be anytime soon. I feel the two parties are outwardly putting a positive glow on these negotiations to help maintain confidence in the markets.
The likes of Simon Hughes keeps banging on about PR, PR, PR being THE priority like a rabid dog. It’s about time the Libs should just feel pleased they could come out of this with maybe four cabinet ministers – not bad for a party who polled third of the three main parties.
To me it proves that the hierachy of the Libs is still party first, country second – they should belt up and let Clegg come to a swift solid agreement with the Tories so minds can be concentrated on tackling the financial crisis.And anyway, who said the country necessarily agrees with them that PR should be the way to go? A referendum on that would be interesting.
I doubt the ramblings of Simon Hughes et al are doing PR any favours if this is the way they behave in a ‘negotiation’ situation. “If we can’t have our way, then we’re not going to play anymore”. -
As I said , if Scotland, who have their own Parliament, were taken out of our voting system, David Cameron would have had a runaway victory. As it is the Conservatives will always have an uphill struggle as the Scots are pretty much wall to wall Labour supporters. Hell will freeze over before that ever changes.
-
@Claire wrote:
As I said , if Scotland, who have their own Parliament, were taken out of our voting system, David Cameron would have had a runaway victory. As it is the Conservatives will always have an uphill struggle as the Scots are pretty much wall to wall Labour supporters. Hell will freeze over before that ever changes.
If you remove all the Conservative area’s of England, then Labour would have won. As much as I would like to cast Scotland out of the Union, you get election you are given not the result you want.
-
So Clegg has met with Brown again this morning! If I were Cameron I would kick Clegg and his useless bunch out of the front door and try to go it alone. There will be another election soon anyway.
One or two of the papers are blaming Cameron for trying to be too similar to New-Labour in the election campaign and thought if he had kept to traditional Tory policies they would have decidedly clinched the votes…I wonder.
There is a third way Labour and Tory could do a deal. Send the Lib-dems off to oblivion, Brown too. 😆
-
-
This govt will be a poisoned chalice. Whoever takes power now will take much of the blame for the serious pain to come. Cameron should leave it to a Lib-Lab pact, then sweep to power on a landslide in year’s time (or however long it takes for them to fall apart). Of course, I’m sure that has occurred to them, so I wonder what the game is.
That said, I don’t think Cameron was smart to try and ape Blair and Nu Labour. I think he should have rejuvenated the Conservatives with new energy and talent, but still run on a Conservative ticket, giving people a Conservative alternative, and a genuine choice of principles. The job is then convince voters that Conservative principles are best for them, rather than offer reheated Labour ideas in a shameless bid for power (that didn’t work). If the British don’t want Conservative policies, then too bad. Better to be in opposition, staying true to principles, and offering people a genuine choice, than offering a fake choice of ‘Coke or Pepsi’.
-
Breaking News:
William Hague, who is leading the negotiations for the Tories, emerged after 90 minutes to say there had been ‘further progress’ and headed off to report back to David Cameron.
Moments later, the Lib Dem team also left the Cabinet Office, declared the two sides are ‘working well together’ and rushed to meet with their leader Nick Clegg to discuss the latest developments.
Gordon Brown, still battling to cling on, refused to simply ‘watch and wait’ as his fate is decided so held his second clandestine summit with Mr Clegg in 24 hours.
Meanwhile one of Charlie’s cats killed a field mouse this morning, brought it into the house and nearly received a good slapping with a ‘strong and stable’ hand. This was preceded by a ladybird having to be flipped over back onto its tummy after landing upside down on Charlie’s terrace.
Can life get anymore exciting???? 🙄
-
Mark I agree, better a few more months of pain than what seems to be happening now.
One good thing after this the Lib-Dams may be set back for another decade if they get into bed with the Tories.
I am not excited, I am dismayed and bored….Charlie you are seriously off-topic, I don’t have the emoticon 😉 😆 Could we have a gossip and rumour thread
-
-
@mark wrote:
Cameron should leave it to a Lib-Lab pact, then sweep to power on a landslide in year’s time (or however long it takes for them to fall apart).
And what happens to the UK in the meantime while this fiasco would be taking place? A very expensive game-play.
@mark wrote:
Whoever takes power now will take much of the blame for the serious pain to come.
I keep reading this line of thinking. I think we should give people more credit re. understanding who caused the pain in the first place.
@katy wrote:
Charlie you are seriously off-topic…..
🙁
Well it was blimmin’ “Breaking News” in our household at 7 0’clock this morning! (the mouse, not the ladybird)I’m getting confused now with all this. Does Cameron actually have the option/the right to decide to go it alone with a minority government? If no agreement with the LibDems is reached, wouldn’t Labour then just rumble on regardless, excercising their right to stay on?
Apprently Brown’s offer to Clegg of a referendum on voting reform is already being shouted down. He’s being told by his party he doesn’t have the right or mandate to make such an offer. -
Interesting debate last night on BBC News 24hrs, between 4 analysts, the concensus of opinion pointed to allowing Labour and Lib Dems to form the coalition because this would suit the Tories when it falls apart in the not too distant future.
Apparantly this is due to the fact (not fiction) that the Tories have already seen/analysed the UK’s Debt figures etc and they are much worse than Brown, Darling and Labour are actually telling us. There is a strong indication that their figures are positively fraudulent, this word being used several times on the programme. This could seriously rock the boat!!!
-
-
angie wrote:Apparantly this is due to the fact (not fiction) that the Tories have already seen/analysed the UK’s Debt figures etc and they are much worse than Brown, Darling and Labour are actually telling us. There is a strong indication that their figures are positively fraudulent, /quote]
No surprises there then 🙄 .
-
-
-
-
Cameron should leave it to a Lib-Lab pact, then sweep to power on a landslide in year’s time (or however long it takes for them to fall apart).
Fully agree with Marks statement. Just seen on Channel 4 that many Labour MPs are not happy about a lib/lab government. I really hope nasty Clegg gets egg on his face and gets the square route of SFA at the end of the day…whenever that arrives. 🙄 It’s farcical.
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
We in Ireland have Coalition Governments since 1989. They have worked pretty well for most of the time.
No system is perfect especially when politicians are involved!
One very good result from a coaliton government is the fact there is an increase in checks and balances.
Single party Government results in an increase of arrogance and remoteness from the ordinary people.
(No difference here between British and Irish politicians).
I believe the Cameron/Clegg Government may well turn out to be as good a Government the UK has had for many a year.
Time will tell.
But, boys oh boys, does it have very tough financial/budgetry decisions to make! -
-
Hi Katy
I see from some of your comments you – through no fault of your own – have little or no idea how Coalition Government works.
I obviously have an advantage because we have had no single party rule in Ireland since prior to 1989.
I can assure you politicians can come up with what appear, to you and me, the strangest of compromises just to hold on to power.
Clegg as deputy PM (one heart beat away from PM!) is a no-brainer if there was ever going to be a coalition.
Like I said in an earlier post Coalition introduces its own set of ‘checks and balances’ which is something positive because as we all know Politicians are the most arrogant of people and are more so if they govern as a single party and not depending on another party.
Better get used to it – coaliton government that is – Katy. -
Congratulations to David Cameron.
Let’s just hope the Limpy-Dems don’t get above themselves and make every damn thing a struggle.
As for thirteen years of Labour…..it gives a whole new meaning to the phrase ‘unlucky 13’.Having to watch Simon Hughes (“wot’s innit for meeeee……”) give the odd interview over the last few days, I’d forgotten what an odious man he is.
It seems I’m not the only one:Quote:
Tory MPs expressed a desire to see Mr Hughes – whose awkwardness does not even endear him to his Lib Dem colleagues – take a job with international travel.
“He should be sent off to climate change conferences so we don’t have to listen to him back here,” one Tory frontbencher said.
“Failing that, we should make him ambassador to North Korea.”Was thrilled to see the likes of Labour’s Communities Minister Shahid Malik get booted out of Dewsbury on Thursday. Hopefully we’ll have less of this kind of crap:
http://www.wikio.co.uk/video/shahid-malik-muslim-labour-mp-937098 -
In an ideal World, a strong, one party government would be the choice. It isn’t, so a compromise is necessary. Better to have the enemy on the inside where you can see them! Both parties have had to compromise on their mandates. I hope it works out OK. ANYTHING beats another term of GB at the helm. Good riddance to him. I feel sorry for his sons for some reason. “Daddy” ruling the roost 24/7! 😯 Old habits die hard.
-
I still don’t understand why the Conservatives gave so much to a party which has only fifty odd seats and actually lost seats in the election! The LD’s LOST three seats to the conservatives in Cornwall 😯
I only found out today that Vince Cable used to be a Labour Councillor 😮 Now he is working with the Tories…I don’t have an emoticon for this!
-
I only found out today that Vince Cable used to be a Labour Councillor Now he is working with the Tories
I’d forgotten that one! Not so good.
When I come down from my elation at GB going, I think I’ll feel like you Katy. Anyway, time will tell all. Watch this space!]…
I don’t have an emoticon for this
I’m sure Charlie will come up with an emoticon. 😉 -
It’s bizarre how all 3 leaders were at each other’s throats in the run-in, and then they the Lib Dems are prepared to deal with either party which offers them the best deal, so now they’re all buddies. How much compromise will the Tories and Lib Dems have to do?
How it will pan out I just don’t have a clue!?
It just feels marginally better than a Lib/Lab coalition, and good to see the back of Brown and his cronies!
-
Although I didn’t vote in this election, I must confess that I am pleased with the outcome. I wasn’t too enthusiastic about any the parties winning but at least in a coaltion both parties have to modify some of their “undesirable” policies in the interests in making it work
I also think that Cameron and Glegg appear to be a breath of fresh air in politics and I wish them both well. In some respects I think Cameron will be glad that it has turned out in this way because when the new government has to make unpopular cuts the conservatives will not have to shoulder the full repsonsibility for doing so. One of the reasons that I think they didn’t win the election was that a significant number of people felt uneasy about their economic policies and decided not to vote for them. That unease would be magnified at the next general election if they had governed as a single party and cut public spending in the way they have suggested.
Having said that the road they are travelling on is perillous and only time will tell whether they are successful.
Richard
-
-
@katy wrote:
I only found out today that Vince Cable used to be a Labour Councillor 😮 Now he is working with the Tories…I don’t have an emoticon for this!
How about “eeeekk”!!
……or is that a bit OTT. 🙂I’ve just watched the pair of them give their first press conference in no.10’s garden. Thought their united front rather touching. Let’s hope they stick to their word – if so, this could just work.
Bet Brown watched it as well and is spitting feathers. 😆
-
@katy wrote:
I only found out today that Vince Cable used to be a Labour Councillor 😮 Now he is working with the Tories…I don’t have an emoticon for this!
Oh, I do!
-
I watched the Rose Garden press conference and I was impressed, especially when Cameron spoke of a Liberal Conservative coalition, to last five years. We now have a coalition government like most of Europe. It’s what the People voted for, they didn’t want right-wing Conservatives, nor left-wing Socialists.
Most importantly, the pound is going up and all the spongers in the UK, and a few over here, will be quaking and might have to work like the rest of us.
Unfortunately, I’ve got no idea what will happen to property prices in either place.
-
I still don’t understand why the Conservatives gave so much to a party which has only fifty odd seats and actually lost seats in the election! The LD’s LOST three seats to the conservatives in Cornwall 😯
First, those seats are the deal maker, thats the Government majority. Second, the total vote count is far more important, especially to a party who wants Proportional Representation and is going to get some sort of vote on it. LD got quite a lot of votes.
I didn’t vote either (didn’t matter, my MP for Battersea was booted out and a Con put in place as I wanted) but I’m quite pleased with the result as well. Should stop some of their (both parties) nuttier ideas coming out. But whats needed is tax rises and spending cuts asap, hope they can do it.
-
@angie wrote:
It’s bizarre how all 3 leaders were at each other’s throats in the run-in, and then they the Lib Dems are prepared to deal with either party which offers them the best deal, so now they’re all buddies. How much compromise will the Tories and Lib Dems have to do?
How it will pan out I just don’t have a clue!?
It just feels marginally better than a Lib/Lab coalition, and good to see the back of Brown and his cronies!
politicians don’t have any principles, its power and money they want, no matter how they get it. A friend of a friend who is a MP said the rule is ‘don’t get caught by the press’.
-
Sterling has only increased slightly against the euro, mainly due to the euro being weak! A large Conservative majority and it would have soared to around 1.25.
As for it is what the people want…do they really. I didn’t see anything that said the conservatives would throw out an equal partnership to some sandal wearing bearded Lib-Dems when I studied the form and voted!
-
I agree Katy that from many angles, this just doesn’t seem right or democratic. Especially with NicK Clegg ending up as Deputy Prime Minister for goodness sake. In my view, Hague deserved that.
However I’m trying to view this as a lesser of two evils. With the tinkering of boundaries to Labour’s advantage plus massive vote fraud, I was actually fearful that we would have ended up with more years of Labour. And we could have.
The irony is instead of Cameron now having to make endless concessions to the Libs, he needed to have made only one concession at the start of the campaign – a referendum on the EU – and he would have had that landslide. Bet he’s kicking himself now.
-
-
@katy wrote:
Sterling has only increased slightly against the euro, mainly due to the euro being weak! A large Conservative majority and it would have soared to around 1.25.
As for it is what the people want…do they really. I didn’t see anything that said the conservatives would throw out an equal partnership to some sandal wearing bearded Lib-Dems when I studied the form and voted!
Unfortunately Katy we vote for a local MP who happens to belong to a political party (or not) and not for a government. We have no other control on the national outcome.
It has provoked some thought about the present system and may have included some capable individuals in government ie Vince Cable. So whatever our political leanings cleaning up the behaviour of MPs can only benefit the country. -
We live in a democracy. The Tories didn’t win enough seats to form a government, nor did Labour. The only viable coalition was between the Conservatives and the Liberals, the other one was arithmetically impossible.
We’ve got the Tory jackboots being linked with the sandal-wearing Liberals, thank God. And we’ve got Ken Clarke to keep us in Europe.
If people wanted anything else, they had UKIP and the BNP, and some other assorted nutters.
I’m totally satisfied with the result.
-
-
I am not an idiot, I understand perfectly about majorities etc. but I still don’t see how the Tories had to conceded so much for a wish washy party with 56 seats. When I saw them this afternoon I thought of Tweedledum and Tweedle dee and sure enough it has been mentioned in the media this evening. I am not exactly alone
I can see Private Eye will have a field day. Todays issue was a corker, excellent value for £1.50.
Please don’t anyone else post and try to patronise me as if I don’t know the score, disagree with me, I don’t mind. I do know however, I am not alone in my perceptions of this mess!
-
-
“but I still don’t see how the Tories had to conceded so much for a wish washy party with 56 seats.”
The Tories were not electable due to their lack of credibility and capability. The Tories had a ‘mere’ not-enough-seats-to-form-a-government.The ‘wishy-washy party’ have put a conservative in the PM’s chair when he was unable to do it otherwise. I think you should be more grateful, you are obviously a Tory yourself, would you prefer Brown to be still in power?
-
@peterhun wrote:
“The Tories were not electable due to their lack of credibility and capability. The Tories had a ‘mere’ not-enough-seats-to-form-a-government.
You are clearly not a Tory fan.
-
The week following the general election has been fascinating and the unfolding of our new cabinet yesterday was pure drama. From the outset David Cameron has been bold and decisive in his actions towards the Liberals, he had very little choice if his premiership was to last for any length of time.
The electoral system we have is grossly unfair but that has suited the two bigger parties, up until now. The Tories have unfailingly supported and refused to alter the first past the post system. We have a winner takes all system and because the Tories cannot command a majority of the new house they are every bit as much losers of this election as everyone else.
To secure a strong administration Cameron has given some power –in fact a considerable amount of power- to his coalition partners. In the long run this will strengthen his administration, or should we really think of it now as there administration.
Two minor points, people really ought not to put a veneer of the American system onto ours, they are completely different beasts. Nick Gleg is “not a hearts beat away from being Prime Minister”. If Cameron dies or is unable for what ever reason to carry on permanently as PM the Tories will elect a new leader and he or she would become the new Prime Minister. Although I don’t know what the rightwing press would make of yet another unelected PM being foisted on them, whatever that phrase means.
As to the Scottish question raised much earlier it’s usually called the West Lothian question after Tam Dalyell a very “Old Labour” Politian and doughty supporter of the union.Dit
-
@mark wrote:
This govt will be a poisoned chalice. Whoever takes power now will take much of the blame for the serious pain to come. Cameron should leave it to a Lib-Lab pact, then sweep to power on a landslide in year’s time (or however long it takes for them to fall apart). Of course, I’m sure that has occurred to them, so I wonder what the game is.
That said, I don’t think Cameron was smart to try and ape Blair and Nu Labour. I think he should have rejuvenated the Conservatives with new energy and talent, but still run on a Conservative ticket, giving people a Conservative alternative, and a genuine choice of principles. The job is then convince voters that Conservative principles are best for them, rather than offer reheated Labour ideas in a shameless bid for power (that didn’t work). If the British don’t want Conservative policies, then too bad. Better to be in opposition, staying true to principles, and offering people a genuine choice, than offering a fake choice of ‘Coke or Pepsi’.
I think Mark had some good points here!
Yes we do need to wait and see. We need to have a first 3 months thread…in 3 months time, of course
According to the news the Liberals will have at least 30 of their MP’s with posts in the new Government 🙄 👿
-
Katy: “but I still don’t see how the Tories had to conceded so much for a wish washy party with 56 seats.”
peterhun replied: “The Tories were not electable due to their lack of credibility and capability. The Tories had a ‘mere’ not-enough-seats-to-form-a-government”.Katy: “I still don’t understand why the Conservatives gave so much to a party which has only fifty odd seats and actually lost seats in the election!”
peterhun replied: “First, those seats are the deal maker, thats the Government majority. Second, the total vote count is far more important, especially to a party who wants Proportional Representation and is going to get some sort of vote on it.”😆 This is like trying to get a straight answer from a politician!
Katy, I don’t think you’ll get your answer to WHY the Tories conceded SO MUCH power to the Lib Dems. I agree it’s certainly not in proportion to their bad performance in the election which is so obviously the point you were making.
Some of us ‘get it’ and are as bewildered as you. 😉 -
-
You are clearly not a Tory fan.
No, I hate them, but I voted for them before and would have done so this time, except I’m abroad. All politicians are thieving, lying scum and I would never contemplate the concept of becoming a fan. We have elections so that we can put them in their place when they start to imagine they are our masters, not servants.
-
I must say I was impressed with the cabinet presented to the public earlier today. In the national interest? Without a doubt. The necessary hatchet men are in place, their job made much easier by the ministers pay cut and freeze for five years; the appeasers are there to keep the peace, and the modernisers are free to get rid of the dragons on either side, but mainly on the Tory far right which has no place in a modern world.
In my selfish world I’m looking for UK property prices to rise rapidly and Spain’s to rise more slowly, but rise nevertheless. The last bit worries me a little, the pound’s bound to rise anyway when the markets look at the present cabinet and compare it with what’s on offer elsewhere in the world.
Cameron and Clegg are political geniuses.
-
@peterhun wrote:
You are clearly not a Tory fan.
No, I hate them, but I voted for them before and would have done so this time, except I’m abroad. All politicians are thieving, lying scum and I would never contemplate the concept of becoming a fan. We have elections so that we can put them in their place when they start to imagine they are our masters, not servants.
Hmm. 😕 “Hate” is a strong emotion. Personally I would not, could not support anyone/thing that I hated.
-
Katy I completely agree that th elosers seem to have a disproportinate amount of powere. Guess we’ll just have to wait and see if it works….
In the meantime what I haven’t heard from any party or indeed any other Eurpoean government is a review of the cost of the EU and it’s gravy train parasites. There must be billions of pounds/euros savings to member states to be had in this organization from MEP’s obscene and often fraudulent expenses, which Nick Clegg openely admits to, to the cost of running two locations in Brussels and Strasbourg for no apparant benefit to the taxpayer, and all the other reasons the accounts have not be signed off for years. The party that had this in it’s manifesto would sweep to power in any Euorpean country.
-
@Rocker wrote:
The last bit worries me a little, the pound’s bound to rise anyway when the markets look at the present cabinet and compare it with what’s on offer elsewhere in the world.
Cameron and Clegg are political geniuses.
Not like the City to be slow on the uptake! The way sterling is right now I would say a bit of a lukewarm welcome to the new Government.
Cleggy is a Eurocrat, he and his wife have spent many years working in the EU. Or maybe I should use WAS instead of IS a Eurocrat. Maybe he will drop that in the pursuit of power 🙄
-
It will take a long time for the new boys to unravel Gordon Brown’s mess
Long after it is buried, New Labour will continue to inflict economic pain, says Jeff RandallWith the corpse of New Labour’s government still warm on the mortician’s slab, an inquest into the death of its salesmen has already begun. David Miliband, the bookies’ favourite to take over as leader, says he will tour the country to find out what went wrong. At the risk of doing his party an undeserved favour, let’s save Bananaman the cost of a trip.
Read the full article at The Telegraph: It will take a long time for the new boys to unravel Gordon Brown’s mess
-
Mark – what an excellent, descriptive article by Jeff Randall. An master wordsmith as well as being ‘on the button’.
I loved the bit:
“…..Mr Campbell, who, having battled gamely to overcome alcoholism, appears to have succumbed to an even more powerful intoxicant: the fumes from his own exhaust.”I can think of a few agents on this forum like that. 😆
(excluding Fuengi of course)
-
Re. the new cabinet formed to try and deal with this absolute pig-sty of a mess Labour have left, I am somewhat bewildered at one appointment – that of the Lib’s Chris Huhne as Energy & Climate Change Secretary.
He will need to deal with UK’s second biggest urgent problem after the economy. If this problem isn’t adddressed in the right way, UK could be playing snakes&ladders by candlelight instead of watching their plasma screens in years to come.
Chris Huhne is a staunch supporter of wind farms who has often clashed with the Tories over their determination for the construction of nuclear power stations. When in opposition, he always ferverently opposed this solution to our energy needs.
The coalition agreement between the parties will allow him to publicly oppose nuclear power. 😕
So Katy, in answer to your question as to why Cameron was so generous re. terms of the coalition, on reflection I’m wondering now if the deal was made extra sweet in the hope that the Libs will toe the line and not cause waves. However I fear for troubled waters ahead the more I think about it.
-
It seems clear that VAT will increase in the UK, however this will mean that the Black economy which is large already, will also increase significantly where possible.
Also, it was said that Capital Gains Tax on 2nd homes sales (UK or abroad) will rise from 18% to 40%, a huge jump. Could mean many homes going on the market before it comes in, and less holiday homes bought.
Loopholes will be sought to avoid/evade such measures no doubt!
-
I find it impossible to defend Brown, and I’m not going to try, but someone needs to say that the ‘mess’ in the UK is about the same as the mess elsewhere in the world right now. The recession wasn’t caused by Brown or anyone else in the UK, including our bankers, it was caused by injudicious ad ridiculous mortgage lending in the US, nothing else, and the global nature of finance spread the rot around the globe.
Forgetting Brown, every single political leader in Europe and the rest of the world was unable to stop the ‘mess’ from happening. To blame Brown for the recession is journalism at its dimmest.
-
-
When David Cameron meets with Alex Salmond, the SNP leader today, it is said that he, Alex Salmond, will be asking for an increase in funding from London. I would suggest that Scotland reinstates charging for prescriptions, University fees and Care home fees, as we in England have to pay for these services and in Scotland all of these are free. I’m sure that would fill their coffers and balance their books somewhat.
Great descriptive writing in the Telegraph. 🙂
-
Without dancing on anyone’s grave, it’s obvious to most people from the entire political spectrum that we need an urgent reform of the UK welfare system.
We need to somehow stop single mothers, just out of school, from having baby after baby with different indifferent fathers and moving into welfare funded homes to live on welfare for the rest of their lives.
We need to stop the work-shy from living comfortably on welfare payments with all sorts of lame excuses to drag their laziness out for years, if not their entire lives.
And we need to do these things without hurting people in real need.
And we need to remember that we are still a rich country, and so is the US, and their deficit is much higher than ours.
-
@Poppyseed wrote:
Katy I completely agree that th elosers seem to have a disproportinate amount of powere. Guess we’ll just have to wait and see if it works….
Two losing parties combined to form a government, that’s the nature of a coalition. Neither party are fit, on their own, to govern, together they may be.
I would suggest that Scotland reinstates charging for prescriptions, University fees and Care home fees, as we in England have to pay for these services and in Scotland all of these are free.
To be precise, they are paid for by English taxpayers.
And we need to remember that we are still a rich country, and so is the US, and their deficit is much higher than ours.
No, the UK is only rich in debt and over valued property (which exceeds the GDP like never before). AFAIK, UK deficit is higher than the US, they also have the advantage of the reserve currency (a gift from a bankrupt UK in return for a loan in 1945).
-
@Rocker wrote:
We need to somehow stop single mothers, just out of school, from having baby after baby with different indifferent fathers and moving into welfare funded homes to live on welfare for the rest of their lives.
Sterilization? Or more radical? 🙄
@Rocker wrote:
We need to stop the work-shy from living comfortably on welfare payments with all sorts of lame excuses to drag their laziness out for years, if not their entire lives.
First create jobs for them. In North-West there are no jobs.
UK government has to use this painful period in order to boost the real economy, not the one where people sell houses to each other and everybody feels rich… -
@Rocker wrote:
The recession was caused by injudicious ad ridiculous mortgage lending in the US, nothing else, and the global nature of finance spread the rot around the globe.
Sorry, are you living in 2008 or 2010? In 2008 some people still believed that it was only caused by US mortgage lending.
In 2010 (almost) everybody knows that the causes are deeper and involve UK lending, Spanish lending,
books cooking by banks and hedge funds, etc. -
@flosmichael wrote:
@Rocker wrote:
We need to somehow stop single mothers, just out of school, from having baby after baby with different indifferent fathers and moving into welfare funded homes to live on welfare for the rest of their lives.
Sterilization? Or more radical? 🙄
If the teenage mothers were living at home when they became pregnant then their families, and those of the father..if known 🙄 .. should have to provide for the grandchild and mother until the mother is able to do something more productive within the community than beget more offspring. Perhaps this will make people more responsible.
Child allowance should only be paid for the first 2 children because all the initially expensive necessary equipement, that is never worn out, has been paid for.
roll:@Rocker wrote:
We need to stop the work-shy from living comfortably on welfare payments with all sorts of lame excuses to drag their laziness out for years, if not their entire lives.
First create jobs for them. In North-West there are no jobs.
UK government has to use this painful period in order to boost the real economy, not the one where people sell houses to each other and everybody feels rich…No-one can create jobs out of thin air but all but the most disabled unemployed should assist in the vast voluntary sector in their communities in order to get their beer/drug (oops sorry) 😉 ‘dole’ money.
This at least would give some work experience not to mention a feeling of worth. And as volunteers don’t get paid this wouldn’t tread on the toes of any union .Councils should tighten up on housing and council tax benefit. Unless there would be desparate overcrowding then close relatives, for perhaps a small increment, should house those who otherwise would be homeless.
Plus ALL benefit ,or indeed, any fraudsters whenever possible should pay back at least threefold what has been scammed.
Signing over assets to other family members should be deemed illegal.Well that’s my rant over 😉 .
-
-
-
I suppose I should put this on the Humour Thread, but on reflection…..this thread will do just as well.
While walking down the street one day a “Member of Parliament” is tragically hit by a truck and dies.
His soul arrives in heaven and is met by St. Peter at the entrance.
‘Welcome to heaven,’ says St. Peter.. ‘Before you settle in, it seems there is a problem. We seldom see a high official around these parts, you see, so we’re not sure what to do with you.’
‘No problem, just let me in,’ says the man.
‘Well, I’d like to, but I have orders from higher up. What we’ll do is have you spend one day in hell and one in heaven. Then you can choose where to spend eternity.’
‘Really, I’ve made up my mind. I want to be in heaven,’ says the MP.
‘I’m sorry, but we have our rules.’
And with that, St. Peter escorts him to the elevator and he goes down, down, down to hell. The doors open and he finds himself in the middle of a green golf course. In the distance is a clubhouse and standing in front of it are all his friends and other politicians who had worked with him.
Everyone is very happy and in evening dress. They run to greet him, shake his hand, and reminisce about the good times they had while getting rich at the expense of the people.
They play a friendly game of golf and then dine on lobster, caviar and champagne.
Also present is the devil, who really is a very friendly & nice guy who has a good time dancing and telling jokes. They are having such a good time that before he realizes it, it is time to go.
Everyone gives him a hearty farewell and waves while the elevator rises….
The elevator goes up, up, up and the door reopens on heaven where St. Peter is waiting for him.
‘Now it’s time to visit heaven.’
So, 24 hours pass with the MP joining a group of contented souls moving from cloud to cloud, playing the harp and singing. They have a good time and, before he realizes it, the 24 hours have gone by and St. Peter returns.
‘Well, then, you’ve spent a day in hell and another in heaven. Now choose your eternity.’
The MP reflects for a minute, then he answers: ‘Well, I would never have said it before, I mean heaven has been delightful, but I think I would be better off in hell.’
So St. Peter escorts him to the elevator and he goes down, down, down to hell.
Now the doors of the elevator open and he’s in the middle of a barren land covered with waste and garbage.
He sees all his friends, dressed in rags, picking up the trash and putting it in black bags as more trash falls from above.
The devil comes over to him and puts his arm around his shoulder. ‘I don’t understand,’ stammers the MP. ‘Yesterday I was here and there was a golf course and clubhouse, and we ate lobster and caviar, drank champagne, and danced and had a great time.. Now there’s just a wasteland full of garbage and my friends look miserable.
What happened?’
The devil looks at him, smiles and says, ‘Yesterday we were campaigning… …
Today you voted.’
-
-
-
This is payback for exposing the letter from Liam Byrne, shame he would have helped us get back on our feet.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/matthew_parris/article7140642.ece
-
All MP’s a lying crooks. we know that; the Telegraph has had the entire details for a year now.
So why, after eight years of this being ‘common knowledge’ has it allowed the Telegraph to remove him from a position in government?
Well, according to the Telegraph
The Daily Telegraph is running a campaign calling on the Government to protect the savings of small investors and ordinary second-home owners from any rise in CGT.
Note that there are only 250k second home owners in the UK.
So, in order to protect tax break given by vote-buying-Labour (and in contrast to the previous Tory government who increase CGT) the Telegraph is a systematically making personal attacks on Lib-Dem MPs in order to force them to change their core coalition policy.
I wonder how many other MP’s are being blackmailed as well? Note that the replacement, Danny Alexander, hasn’t actually done anything wrong but still they pick him out for special treatment.Pretty disgusting tactics – they are effectively demanding a tax rise for the vast majority of the population instead and using blackmail to do it.
-
You know guys national politics are, quite frankly, out of our reach unless you know an MP and then you will have little influence on them.
If you think national politics are bad take a look locally and how much goes on around you at town / district, country and parish councils, you’ll be gobsmacked. The local county councilor in my area for example used council money and council services to repair an unadopted (private) road in our village. It just so happened that the local branch secretary of the Labour party lives on that very road and she’s Labour. The Standards Board said she had no case to answer, even though I had no say in the spending of my council tax money repairing a private road! This is one of many things that happen locally without you even noticing as the Mail, Times and Telegraph are not the slightest bit interested, even the local rag are to dependant on news and advertising from the local councils to even think about reporting the facts.
Paul
-
I would suggest that Scotland reinstates charging for prescriptions, University fees and Care home fees, as we in England have to pay for these services and in Scotland all of these are free.
To be precise, they are paid for by English taxpayers.
Total crap..!..Please at least get your facts correct before you spout nationalistic nonsense.
I pay my taxes like everyone else…there are plenty of spongers south of the border, who fleece the system…as well as our share of them up here.
I’ve never been a Scottish Nationalist, or wanted independance, but there are times when the attitudes of ‘some’ people edge me towards these goals.
1. Prescriptions are not free ( although a plan to reach free prescriptions has been published )
2. Care fees are not free ( for private nursing homes )..there is a scheme ( I believe…but not being of a certain age…I cannot be 100% positive ) for free care for the elderly through NHS…but private care is not free.
3. University fees are free for Scottish students….and so they should be. It’s to Engerlunds eternal shame that they charge students for education.
Perhaps the nationalists have a point about the ownership of the offshore oil ….
-
[]This is payback for exposing the letter from Liam Byrne, shame he would have helped us get back on our feet.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/matthew_parris/article7140642.ece[/quote]
That article is total rubbish. Laws “outed” himself in an attempt to save his own skin. He played the “gay” card like some black people play the “race” card. Maybe his parents didn’t know (bet they had a good idea) but everyone else in the Commons knew. It is NOT a gay issue, the point is he is a liar, hypocrite and a cheat. I had a look at his website. At least 2 pages are spent saying how he has never claimed a cent blah, blah. It is not just the 40,000 (I think the media has been very kind to him) they flipped houses too.
If they keep appearing on TV saying they are going to stop some blokes fifty quid a week benefit and stuff the middle class then the old saying still goes…people in glass houses etc.
Why is Laws now being spoke of as the countries saviour ❓ He has never proved himself. He was an investment banker… 😛 He only worked in the real world for 7 years after leaving university. His last banking job lasted 2 years (bet there is some story there). The rest of the time he has worked for the liberal party 😆
Why are we now being stuck with another useless liberal for the job, what was wrong with ken Clarke or someone.
-
@katy wrote:
Why is Laws now being spoke of as the countries saviour ❓ He has never proved himself. He was an investment banker… 😛 He only worked in the real world for 7 years after leaving university. His last banking job lasted 2 years (bet there is some story there). The rest of the time he has worked for the liberal party 😆
Why are we now being stuck with another useless liberal for the job, what was wrong with ken Clarke or someone.
Nobody with any desire to have along term future in politics would volunteer to be the hatchet man for the forthcoming massive tax rises and spending cuts. He/she will be hated by the public and/or destroyed by the press.
-
@katy wrote:
Why are we now being stuck with another useless liberal for the job, what was wrong with ken Clarke or someone.
No surprise that the most recent coalition government ‘hatchet man’ appointment is a junior minister, and a Liberal Democrat.
Back in the day, the senior minister, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, was usually labelled the ‘hatchet man’ in austere times.
The Tories, and the Tory press, know what they’re doing.
-
Katy
He leased a room from a partner his gay partner, if he had leased a room from a woman partner he would be just as guilty. I don’t think he would have used the gay card just to get out of it do you? The rules say you can’t lease property from a partner, from what we can see from the press he wasn’t his gay partner when he first started leasing the room but they became gay partners and so by leasing the room he is and was always breaking the “rules.” Even Ken thinks he’ll get off!
Maybe some people use the white middle class card too often.
Iano
That’s not my quote could you correct your post please, thanks.
-
@iano wrote:
@katy wrote:
@p800aul wrote:
Why are we now being stuck with another useless liberal for the job, what was wrong with ken Clarke or someone.
No surprise that the most recent coalition government ‘hatchet man’ appointment is a junior minister, and a Liberal Democrat.
Back in the day, the senior minister, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, was usually labelled the ‘hatchet man’ in austere times.
The Tories, and the Tory press, know what they’re doing.
Yes, trying to get the labour party back into power. Once the LibDems run out of their own MP’s they will start giving jobs to Labour MP’s, the coalition agreement specifies certain jobs for the LibDems, they are not going to give that up becuase of the actions of the Tories.
The most probable result of the Telegraph’s actions is a new election and a Labour or possibly Lib-Lab government.
-
@peterhun wrote:
the coalition agreement specifies certain jobs for the LibDems.
Do you mean the ‘unofficial’ camclegg deal, the agreement not for public consumption?
Don’t recall the official agreement stating the role of Chief Secretary to the Treasury should be Lib Dem for the duration of this Parliament.
PS Quote now attributed correctly p800aul, sorry for putting those words in your ‘mouth’! 😮
-
I wish I hadn’t bothered to vote 🙄 No-one has got what they wanted. What a shower, even labour MP’s coming out to support him (well they would wouldn’t they) and now it’s all the nasty Telegraph’s fault.
BTW my OH and myself keep separate bank accounts and sometimes have different social lives….any allowances we could get 😉
-
……or is that a bit OTT. 🙂
- The forum ‘Spanish Real Estate Chatter’ is closed to new topics and replies.
