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I read mark’s article in the Sunday TImes; “the costa is far from clear” – well, I have to disagree – the ley de costa is very clear and any lawyer knows this; part of the conveyancing process would be to check with “Costas” who will tell you in two minutes what the situation is.
Who was their lawyer? their agent? that is where the problem is; not with the Spanish law which is just like most coastal laws in any continent in the world………….
If people continue to leave their brains on the airplane seat before looking for their dream homes then they have only themselves to blame……… this goes for any country in the world. It goes without saying that most of the lies and hoodwinking is done by their own countrymen masquerading as helpful agents !!! wake up; oh and by the way 99% of foreign owners are delighted with their Spanish property purchase and their new life style !!
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When one talks about law. One talks not only of the legislation. One talks about the whole legal fraternity. In this instance the drafter of the law, its intended purpose, the way it involves, the custodians i.e the lawyers, judges, the supervisors, the college & the Law minister.
Drafting a law in itself is not the question.
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UBEDA
I agree, many lies are indeed told by fellow countrymen, but mainly because they operate in an area where lies and cheating is common place. The lies are carried through by far to many Spanish lawyers, developers, town hall officials, mayors, etc, right through to the justice system in some cases. I’m not tarring them all with the same brush, but let’s face reality!.
The laws might well be there, but if not implemented, as is often the case, they are just a waste of time!. As for your 99% claim?, straight out the agents book of bull**it!
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In my (blinkered) view the problem lies fairly and squarely with the lawyer acting for the buyers.
The law isn’t the problem – we all should have a level playing field and whatever the law says we should be aware of it.
The agent isn’t the problem – we should all be aware that they are acting for the vendor and will be keen to secure a sale.
The problem is with the lawyer who should protect the buyer and explain that the law is and should also protect the buyer from deviant agents.
In the UK (I know, we are in Spain) the lawyer will in 99% of cases safeguard a stupid buyer, avoid dodgy agents and will explain all the issues affecting a purchase.
Sadly, the majority of Spanish lawyers simply can’t be bothered to provide a quality service to explain issues which later come back to bite buyers in the proverbial.
A good example is the poor explanation of the importance of the Property Register and the Catastro.
In Spain many of the problems (illegality, corruption and overbuilding) would not have been possible had it not been for bent lawyers exploiting loopholes and then ensuring buyers didn’t pick up on issues.
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Aunty Val and Shakeel; you are both right – however i do not believe a law firm gave the green light knowing the “house” falls in this protected area – I use the word law firm – Did they use one? A Spanish registered one ? or a Brit masquerading as a conveyancing expert in cahoots with some tin pot Brit masquerading as an agent ???
Also, why haven’t the Taylor’s taken legal action against their legal advisor?? all very fishy if you ask me ?
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@UBEDA wrote:
Aunty Val and Shakeel; you are both right – however i do not believe a law firm gave the green light knowing the “house” falls in this protected area – I use the word law firm – Did they use one? A Spanish registered one ? or a Brit masquerading as a conveyancing expert in cahoots with some tin pot Brit masquerading as an agent ???
Also, why haven’t the Taylor’s taken legal action against their legal advisor?? all very fishy if you ask me ?
I don’t know what the position is of the Taylors but the trouble is not that we left our brains on the plane – it is surely that most of us expect that when European well qualified professionals tell you something it is likely to be true. There are those of us who bought off plan from the largest property company in Europe (rated on the stock exchange) – used local lawyers who were also buying on said developments only to find there are no bank guarantees and no ways of recooping deposits. I feel as numb as I am sure the Taylos do – after all this is Spain not some third world place where you might expect corruption and poor standards to be rife. I obviously did leave my brains somewhere – too trusting by half – never again. I am truly wary now – and still without the property I want.
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UBEDA,
I used a Spanish Lawyer (yes a real one with no association with developer), we bought off plan from a Spanish Builder. I am not a fool and did’nt leave my Brain on the plane.
I still got ripped off. You cannot blame the purchaser, my Lawyer was lazy and didnt insist on the BG.
When you employ a Lawyer things should be looked after, that’s what we engage them for and the way it works in the developed world…..
Legal action against a Lawyer in Spain is difficult… hard to get a solicitor to sue another, diffucult to prove, a toothless Law Society, you will most likely lose.
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Shakeel’s attitude is always the best one to take. Yes, research the law of each country, and yes, second guess everything. Believing you are entitled to trust anything without research is just not realistic. I am very sorry for those who have been victimized. A rough lesson to learn the hard way.
As an American lawyer, we live in a fair amount of fear of being sued for malpractice or having a professional complaint registered against us. We carry lots of insurance against this and any client who believes our bad advice has cost him/her money or other loss can sue us and believe me there is always another lawyer willing to help him/her to do that! It’s a profit center like any other. This system holds us accountable in a very real way. I get the impression there is no similar system regarding lawyers in Spain. What does hold lawyers in Spain accountable? Is there anything?
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ces/conn/Aunt val
good to see you recognising who is really to blame. I’m sick of seing posts blaming decent people for being conned by crooks masquerading as legal experts, and getting away with daylight robbery.
SherryfromSeattle
I think if Spain had even gone half way to your U.S system, most of the current problems in the property market wouldn’t exist. As you say, who or what holds Spanish lawyers accountable? That could also be said for every step when buying in Spain. Because of this, matters of clearly right and wrong common sense issues are not dealt with at a local level and end up in long and costly court battle which sadly, often holds little more hope of real justice. It’s just a bloody mess, and has come back to bite Spain in a big way!
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My nightmare has been going on for 6 years now with thousands of euros paid out no BG, change of solicitors, a house that is built but has no licence and the builders have not complied to Town hall regulations, an uninterested builder who won’t cooperate, a law suit going ahead. The outlook doesn’t look good, it just seems that the buyers are treated shabily and the solicitors and the builders and agents are the only ones who come out of this dam mess with anything its us that lose out.
We have done everything to try and get our money back which was half the cost of the property I think in the end we will just have to admit defeat.
What makes me angry is that the builder has had thousands of our money, not fullfilled his part of the contract, we are left with an illegal house if its knocked down we get nothing, hes had our money probably had a few holidays on us 👿 , the solicitors have been paid , the agents have had their commission. What about us surley the system can’t be right. I feel let down and so angry that so many lives have been ruined all over Spain in situations like ours. You trust the professionals expecting that they will look after your interests as their clients you hope they would be on your side. Fat chance ❗ We shouldn’t have to be experts on Spanish Law but if we want any kind of fare play I think we will all need to be more savvy about the unjust system currently inplace.Ive no time for any of them they can all rot in a very hot place for all I care 😈 😈
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axwhale
you, me, any many others. If we had realised that legal contracts often mean nothing, finding an good lawyer is so hard, laws are often not implemented, common sense not used, many offices, planning etc, being corrupt or negligent at best and justice patchy (to say the least), i don’t think many would have bought.
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Hello. I am one half of the Taylors. One half of the family that ‘left their brains on the plane.’
I only wish I had seen this post before. I hope UBEDA is still around to read this.
Yes, it really did happen us. No one made this story up.
We had a Spanish estate agent.
We had a Spanish lawyer. And by the way we had used the same Spanish lawyer to previously purchase another property in Spain. Stupidly, we put our faith in them. We thought that is what people paid lawyers for – to safe guard them against any problems. How stupid we were. Not only that, but we paid a hefty sum for their ‘services.’
We spent every penny of our savings to buy the property, plus a lot more.
We had never heard of the ‘Ley de Costas.’ A Spanish architect, whom we hoped would renovate the house found out when he was doing the plans.
We paid tax to the Spanish government for a house that we don’t even seem to own. I can sort of understand why it beggars belief.
We have employed (at even more expense) a Notary Public. He is trying (without success so far) to find a Spanish lawyer who would be willing to litigate against our Spanish lawyer. So far we have discovered that Spanish lawyers have a code that says they won’t litigate against another Spanish lawyer.
I can see, to the uninitiated that it seems simple. it is far from simple UBEDA.
One dream completely and entirely shattered. Faith in humanity destroyed.
I can’t and I won’t give up. It is killing us but I have to get justice. Believe me though – it is far from easy! -
H Taylor, our lawyer has sued our original lawyer. We won the case, the judge condemned our first lawyer. Unfortunately for us, this lawyer has absolutely no respect for any laws or judgement and has appealed the verdict to refund the large sum of money we paid to them. Hopefully, the Judge will make them pay up in the end.
I do not know what region of Spain you are in but I could put you in touch with our lawyer who is based on the CDS, if you so wished. -
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