- This topic has 14 replies, 3 voices, and was last updated 11 years, 6 months ago by
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Do they have to give receipts for cash by Law? If they pay some of your money in cash drawn from their client account to a vendor at the Notorio’s office -do they have to count it out in your presence? -If they do not must they get a receipt from the vendor as proof they paid it. A Uk lawyer told me it no use going to the College of Abogados because they look after their own -also that spanish abogados can always find receipts for miscellaneous monies that they can legitimately claim to cover themselves. Not suggesting all abogados are untrustworthy.
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PS Previous poster -they have different laws and procedures in different countries as they are entitled to and you have to learn the laws and practices in these countries and to find out when you don’t know what is the fact. I write here legitimate questions that one might ask if one purchases a property in Spain. A reply might be not only useful to me but to otherts who think that something was not right and what they should do-and would be very welcome from anyone who has the knowledge . Muchas Gracias
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PS Previous poster -they have different laws and procedures in different countries as they are entitled to and you have to learn the laws and practices in these countries and to find out when you don’t know what is the fact. I write here legitimate questions that one might ask if one purchases a property in Spain. A reply might be not only useful to me but to otherts who think that something was not right and what they should do-and would be very welcome from anyone who has the knowledge . Muchas Gracias
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Hi Ptr – I don’t know what UBEDA’s problem was with your post, I understood every word.
It is a sad fact that many lawyers in Spain have abused Power of Attorney – and in one of the two cases I know of personally the lawyer was English! I’ve heard of several other cases via postings on other forums. It’s also a sad fact that it is correct to assume the Colegio de Abogados do nothing to address complaints which is probably why so many lawyers try it on. From personal experience our complaints to the C of A fell on deaf ears, where our original lawyer failed on practically every count re. protecting our interests/ undertaking legal requirements during our purchasing process. In the UK the Law Society is a completely different animal where they take illegal and legally-negligent actions by lawyers 100% seriously.
Yes, unscrupulous lawyers can ‘blind you with science’ and produce receipts to account for monies they’ve taken by billing you for every e-mail, every phone-call, every letter, visit to the notary etc. which is why it is important from the start to establish a set fee. As for any monies paid on your behalf to a third party, whether it is at the notary or not, of course should bear a receipt. Every euro paid should.
Something possibly worth a try: In Spain there are offices called OMIC (Oficina Municipal de Información al Consumidor) which handle complaints from the public about anything including matters connected with the purchase of property. It’s a bit like the UK equivalent of the Consumer Protection Agency. I don’t know exactly where your purchase is in Gran Canaria but am sure there will be an office in your nearest major town.
Whereas I don’t expect they would deal specifically with a lawyer problem (they are really if you have trouble with traders/suppliers etc) we found the lady in the OMIC office in Marbella a mine of information re. guidance which route to take with our problems. She even stepped out of her remit, telephoned our developer and gave them a rollocking, the result being a Bank Guarantee which we had been fruitlessly pursuing for months suddenly appeared! OMIC actually have a lot of clout in Spain.
Not everyone finds their local OMIC office that helpful unfortunately, it’s just luck of the draw who you end up sitting infront of. But if you get someone good in your local office, they may just be worth a visit. Not just on this but on any other matters. Ask for the dept. that deals with ‘housing and planning’ but be aware you cannot expect them to speak English, although you may be lucky.
UBEDA – if you don’t understand a word of that, don’t worry about it. 😆
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Hi Ptr – I don’t know what UBEDA’s problem was with your post, I understood every word.
It is a sad fact that many lawyers in Spain have abused Power of Attorney – and in one of the two cases I know of personally the lawyer was English! I’ve heard of several other cases via postings on other forums. It’s also a sad fact that it is correct to assume the Colegio de Abogados do nothing to address complaints which is probably why so many lawyers try it on. From personal experience our complaints to the C of A fell on deaf ears, where our original lawyer failed on practically every count re. protecting our interests/ undertaking legal requirements during our purchasing process. In the UK the Law Society is a completely different animal where they take illegal and legally-negligent actions by lawyers 100% seriously.
Yes, unscrupulous lawyers can ‘blind you with science’ and produce receipts to account for monies they’ve taken by billing you for every e-mail, every phone-call, every letter, visit to the notary etc. which is why it is important from the start to establish a set fee. As for any monies paid on your behalf to a third party, whether it is at the notary or not, of course should bear a receipt. Every euro paid should.
Something possibly worth a try: In Spain there are offices called OMIC (Oficina Municipal de Información al Consumidor) which handle complaints from the public about anything including matters connected with the purchase of property. It’s a bit like the UK equivalent of the Consumer Protection Agency. I don’t know exactly where your purchase is in Gran Canaria but am sure there will be an office in your nearest major town.
Whereas I don’t expect they would deal specifically with a lawyer problem (they are really if you have trouble with traders/suppliers etc) we found the lady in the OMIC office in Marbella a mine of information re. guidance which route to take with our problems. She even stepped out of her remit, telephoned our developer and gave them a rollocking, the result being a Bank Guarantee which we had been fruitlessly pursuing for months suddenly appeared! OMIC actually have a lot of clout in Spain.
Not everyone finds their local OMIC office that helpful unfortunately, it’s just luck of the draw who you end up sitting infront of. But if you get someone good in your local office, they may just be worth a visit. Not just on this but on any other matters. Ask for the dept. that deals with ‘housing and planning’ but be aware you cannot expect them to speak English, although you may be lucky.
UBEDA – if you don’t understand a word of that, don’t worry about it. 😆
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A very good and helpful reply Charlie and so early in the morning. I have to say that in England we complain about EU interference in harmonising things like fishing and other aspects of life here and we complain sometimes how the French seem to be less zealous than we are. But the position regard to Immobilliria and property transcations in Spain is more akin to a 3rd World’ country. What I find so unbelievable is that in several years of Socialist Government nothing has been done. It seems reasonable to say small tax evasion by individuals is not uncommon in our country but in Spain it is encouraged by agents and lawyers -the latter even complaining that they have to get involved. What the Spanish Lawyers need to do is clean up .The first thing that needs to be done is to make it a criminal offence for an agent to sign a contract with vendor and buyer at different prices and that a Contrato de Compraveta HAS TO BE SIGNED WITH BOTH PRESENT before going to the Notary and for it to be again a criminal offence for either agent or lawyer to charge any more than they have AGREED IN WRITING for any transaction -they are intermediaries and service providers-but they believe they are entitled to exploit for themselves. In fact standard charges need to be set out nationally with provision of course for small variations dealing with particular individual circumstances. I note your mention of OMIC the Consumer Office which could be helpful . I really am going to have some words with our Euro MP . I personally had a horrible experience like being ravaged by vultures in a country where I previously was happy to visit . I put it down to the recession -in bad times these intermederies are desperate for money . I have to say I still find the ordinary Spanish OK-my agent was not Spanish.-Another result of the EU it has brought in alien standards to this once very Catholic country. I woud have thought it more likely to have this experience in Egypt but I am told I could not be more wrong. When you buy in Spain CAVEAT EMPTOR !!!!!!!!
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A very good and helpful reply Charlie and so early in the morning. I have to say that in England we complain about EU interference in harmonising things like fishing and other aspects of life here and we complain sometimes how the French seem to be less zealous than we are. But the position regard to Immobilliria and property transcations in Spain is more akin to a 3rd World’ country. What I find so unbelievable is that in several years of Socialist Government nothing has been done. It seems reasonable to say small tax evasion by individuals is not uncommon in our country but in Spain it is encouraged by agents and lawyers -the latter even complaining that they have to get involved. What the Spanish Lawyers need to do is clean up .The first thing that needs to be done is to make it a criminal offence for an agent to sign a contract with vendor and buyer at different prices and that a Contrato de Compraveta HAS TO BE SIGNED WITH BOTH PRESENT before going to the Notary and for it to be again a criminal offence for either agent or lawyer to charge any more than they have AGREED IN WRITING for any transaction -they are intermediaries and service providers-but they believe they are entitled to exploit for themselves. In fact standard charges need to be set out nationally with provision of course for small variations dealing with particular individual circumstances. I note your mention of OMIC the Consumer Office which could be helpful . I really am going to have some words with our Euro MP . I personally had a horrible experience like being ravaged by vultures in a country where I previously was happy to visit . I put it down to the recession -in bad times these intermederies are desperate for money . I have to say I still find the ordinary Spanish OK-my agent was not Spanish.-Another result of the EU it has brought in alien standards to this once very Catholic country. I woud have thought it more likely to have this experience in Egypt but I am told I could not be more wrong. When you buy in Spain CAVEAT EMPTOR !!!!!!!!
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@Ptr wrote:
……and so early in the morning.
Not so early, we’re two hours ahead of the UK. 😉
@Ptr wrote:
Another result of the EU it has brought in alien standards to this once very Catholic country.
According to many on this forum, you’re wrong there. Apparently all these so-called ‘standards’ are caused by (and excused by) the years under Franco. 😀
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@Ptr wrote:
……and so early in the morning.
Not so early, we’re two hours ahead of the UK. 😉
@Ptr wrote:
Another result of the EU it has brought in alien standards to this once very Catholic country.
According to many on this forum, you’re wrong there. Apparently all these so-called ‘standards’ are caused by (and excused by) the years under Franco. 😀
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My experience in Spain Charlie has been until recently only as a tourist. I was lucky enough to go there inthe late Franco days and remember as a student hitch hiking accross France catching a train from Beziers to Cerbere in the night in April and arriving at Port Bou and buying a cup of coffee at the train station for 7 pesetas. Then buying my train ticket to Girona for 22 pesetas the exchange rate then being 164 for £1. I remember the station master benging the gong for the train to depart at each station. One has to admit things have changed and in so many ways the Spanish peoples lives have improved but we cannot blame Franco for everything I think there were good aspects ! But whilst not being a socialist I think that the situation regarding property transactions needs to be a priority for any political party. It will greatly improve confidence in the property market if things are more transparent -it is often said that we in England are over protected and it is this that causes the new buyer in Spain to sometimes be a bit unwary -particularly when you are not so young happen to go out on your own and unfortunately use a hungry agent that hasn’t seen much in the way of buyers in a long winter. Is so called ‘black money’ a good or bad thing -its certainly been a reality.If it were really made impossible it would need phasing because of buyers who have paid some cash and would be unable to get it back ! But very annoying when one just wants to do decent deal with a vendor and one has an agent in the way – equally though when one wants to buy something the last thing you want is someone else getting it -so it is easy not to be as hard enough with the agent at the time -but there is no excuse for exploiting clients by misrepresentation
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My experience in Spain Charlie has been until recently only as a tourist. I was lucky enough to go there inthe late Franco days and remember as a student hitch hiking accross France catching a train from Beziers to Cerbere in the night in April and arriving at Port Bou and buying a cup of coffee at the train station for 7 pesetas. Then buying my train ticket to Girona for 22 pesetas the exchange rate then being 164 for £1. I remember the station master benging the gong for the train to depart at each station. One has to admit things have changed and in so many ways the Spanish peoples lives have improved but we cannot blame Franco for everything I think there were good aspects ! But whilst not being a socialist I think that the situation regarding property transactions needs to be a priority for any political party. It will greatly improve confidence in the property market if things are more transparent -it is often said that we in England are over protected and it is this that causes the new buyer in Spain to sometimes be a bit unwary -particularly when you are not so young happen to go out on your own and unfortunately use a hungry agent that hasn’t seen much in the way of buyers in a long winter. Is so called ‘black money’ a good or bad thing -its certainly been a reality.If it were really made impossible it would need phasing because of buyers who have paid some cash and would be unable to get it back ! But very annoying when one just wants to do decent deal with a vendor and one has an agent in the way – equally though when one wants to buy something the last thing you want is someone else getting it -so it is easy not to be as hard enough with the agent at the time -but there is no excuse for exploiting clients by misrepresentation
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