May 24, 2006 at 10:42 pm #51847
Been looking at the property off plan stuff for a couple of years – but now only really into a position to actually do something. After 2 or 3 years of magazines, tv, and twice yearly trips out to the “murcia” area I am getting closer to the point of actually buying …..
…. until thankfully I have just found this forum ( for a guy in IT that is quite shamefull!!!).
Anyway – long term “investment” is something I am looking for – with some free holidays and some rental to get a little cash for my outlay.
My feeling now is leave well alone for two years minimum. However, this is also an emotional investment and I believe there are still some reasonable buys to have if you take your time and a long term view ( ie not in an immediate hurray and get independant advice).
I guess I am looking for some advice on developments such as Jumilla and Tres Molinos. Is this more of the same or a reasonable bet?
The facilities look fantastic when eventually completed. I suppose that may take many many years until the development is fully commercially viable (Hotels, shops, restaurants and all that stuff).
Any thoughts or advice would be greatly appreciated!!!!!!!!!
May 25, 2006 at 8:04 am #62404
I think that you will get a flood of people saying “ DON’T BUY OFF PLAN!” There is so much resale property available in what is now a buyers market. All these off-plan developments look fantastic …on paper. What you might actually get can be a different story. You are far better to buy something that you can actually see and physically put your key in the door. Also you need to see what is surrounding the property and if there is likely to be other buildings put up that may change your view and environment in the future.
From our own experience and having read those of others posting here, we would NEVER go the off-plan route again. It is lunacy to do so at this time.
May 25, 2006 at 7:18 pm #62421
It seems that offplan no longer offers the big discounts and value that it used to and with the downturn in resales it is probably a better bet to fish around there.
Guess I am asking if it is worthwhile looking at anything in spain this year – even modest increases in terms of prices over a year or two (5-10%) can equate to quite a lot of money.
Secondly – anyone any news or opinions on jumilla – nice properties there for around 100000 euros.
Thirdly – these places take time to develop I would think – where it might take 3 or 4 years before all the facilities are in place. I guess it takes time for the small communities and commerce to develop – again guesswork – what do you think?
I think long term these places look like a decent bet – after all the fundamentals are always in place ie weather, proximity to UK for tourism etc.
May 25, 2006 at 8:41 pm #62422
I would think that Jumilla is a bit far from the coast for most tourists.
May 26, 2006 at 9:20 am #62424
5-10% increase? This is unatainable at the moment, more like a 10% loss (and thas a conservative figure)
May 26, 2006 at 9:44 am #62425
Don’t forget, if you wanted to sell in the very early years, out of ANY profit, you have non resident CG tax currently 35% (set to change to 18% EVENTUALLY), legal fee’s 1% and EA fee’s 5-7.5%, so unless you buy the bargain of the century, you’d be lucky to see any profit.
May 26, 2006 at 12:12 pm #62428
correct me if im worng but Murcia isnt really full of millions of resales, as its not really an established area
May 26, 2006 at 12:37 pm #62429
Spain – Murcia may not be as ‘established’ as other areas but many people who bought off plan there are trying to sell before completion – I know of some personally. They had been told by the agent that there would be no problem selling on before completion at a good profit – a rather large fairytale as they have had no interest whatsoever from buyers. When you think about it this is not surprising – why would you buy someone elses off plan before completion, giving them a profit – with all the thousands of apartments being built in Murcia, and with the (according to agents) buoyant growing market (!!?) why would buyers not buy their own off plan to try and make a profit on it !
May 27, 2006 at 12:15 am #62441
Tend to agree must be nearly impossible to sell before completion with the competition / options of the new stuff around you being developed.
Seems to me that this “economy” is completely different from the general housing market. There is a definate demand and as long as the legislation is in place and as long as the developers do not spoil things long term that these places are good bets in the 10 years+ term once mature and estabilshed.
Problem is in the short term there seems to be over supply. This could of course affect the ability of these developments to progress and be commercially viable areas.
I know jumilla is far away from the coast but if the facility is allowed to develop over time and the main town and surrounding area stays the same I really do think that this could become a marketable option (for sale or rent) further down the line.
I am trying to think long term as there is no easy money to be made short term these days….
May 28, 2006 at 4:58 am #62452
If you are looking for a sound investment then think about what other people really want to buy in Spain. Most want to have a quiet nights sleep, a morning dip in the pool, a stroll in to town for the market and then to have lunch by the beach with a couple of drinks. Many off-plan properties I have seen can certainly promise the quiet nights sleep and the pool, but then you need to get in a car to get anywhere else. A place that is remote will not attract a holiday rental or long term tenant either. If the places you are interested in appear cheap because of where they are consider keeping you money in the bank!
May 29, 2006 at 10:43 am #62467
chrisc -just wanted to pick up on a point that you made about long term investment.
One thing that struck me as odd when I came to Spain was that many house hunters are only looking for new or nearly new property.
When I started to look around myself I realised why. In general the build quality on the CDL is substandard. Your average urbanisation that is 5 to 10 years old looks very tatty.
Add to this the regular problems with damp, insulation and low quality door and window fittings that can make the properties unpleasant to live in during the winter. Also, there is so much land being shifted -and 10 minutes later a house pops up -no such thing as subsidence in Spain???
In my opinion this applies to the market in general, and not just the cheaper developments.
While I have held back on purchasing because I think that the market is overvalued, my biggest reservation is the quality of the product itself.
Like I said this is a generalisation, and my experience is limited to the CDL, but my point is this -the market may well have moved up in 10 years time -but what state will your “investment” be in?
June 24, 2006 at 8:11 pm #63058
Buying off plan, has its uses, horses for courses and all that. Dont know about the rest, but there doesnt seem to be the originality that you used to find only a few years ago. If your serious about Murcia and it has a lot to offer and in our humble opinion is very much in the ascendancy, why not design your own:
June 24, 2006 at 9:13 pm #63061
Forestfire I live in a house that is approx 30 years old and part of an urbanisation the house itself is rustic and beautifully built , so is the urbanistation, I have had no problems whatsoever with it and it is very cosy in the winter. Just really to say that all is not bad! Look around and you can find lots of lovely properties. 🙂
June 24, 2006 at 10:31 pm #63065
Surely ANDY G posts are clearly trying to promote his own company isn’t this a breach of the forum rules and regs
don’t mean to be a killjoy but rules are rules and I think that the majority if not all of his posts have been for the sole purpose of promoting a commercial venture.
June 25, 2006 at 9:10 am #63070
I have to agree in part with Ronnie.
When I looked at the general forum posts and saw that AndyG had replied to most topics I thought,” Hmm, I wonder who this is?” Yes he is obviously “advertising” his company, but giving “knowledgeable” advise at the same time (I hope). Maybe he should just say he is a Tax Consultant. Anyway, Mark will decide on his fate, I’m sure! 😉
June 25, 2006 at 9:35 am #63072
We bought our apartment in 1985 for about £20,000 all in furniture, fees etc. Over all it has probably cost us over the years a further £20,000 maximum for upkeep including community fees, utility standing charges, IBI, taxes, redecoration etc. The furniture is original and still in good condition as it has only had the equivalent of say 2 years occasional wear and tear. We have enjoyed about 40 holidays to our apartment and have at least doubled our money. Would we have made the same sort of profit or had as much pleasure from any other investment? I very much doubt it.
We bought in a completed phase of an unfinished complex so could see what we were getting for our money. Although the community did have a fight with the developer to get him to build the promised swimming pool. So there was, as with every investment, a certain amount of risk involved.
June 25, 2006 at 9:36 am #63073
To all the users who accuse me of promoting a business I must apologise. It is obvious there are users who are operating businesses in the property sector but I realise no names are mentioned and we will respect that. All we want to do is to contribute to the debate and hopefully pass on the benefit of our experience in this area to other users who have questions on aspects of spanish life that are totally alien to them. We will conform to the requirements of the forum. It can be difficult however because when you have a poster who refers to another business or website, how can we be sure that the poster does not have a connections or interest in that business? We will in future if permitted to do so, to contribute on a personal basis because information is power and there are a lot of powerless individuals who are completeley bewildered by their experiences in Spain and need help. Thats all we want to do.
June 25, 2006 at 11:00 am #63076
Welcome to the forum. 🙂 I’m sure there will be people who will appreciate your advice when needed. We are always grateful to the contributions of “learned” people.!
June 25, 2006 at 2:30 pm #63078
reading through his posts there doesn’t seem to be much information. The tax statements are a bit waffly. Only exception being that we now know we can design our own villa 🙄
June 25, 2006 at 7:22 pm #63079
Any contributions and passing on of tips, information etc that can help anyone is great I appreciate all the help I have had from the forum.
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