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An article a few days ago says that properties on the CDS will take between 4 to 8 years to sell and that there is also nil demand. Many of the successful agents have shut up shop around here even the ones who deal mainly with Spanish or Germans.
Add to this today’s unemployment data…over 4 million unemployed, 17.3% nationally and 27% in Andalucia things are sure on a downward spiral.
But, I (stupidly) agreed to hold a key for a friends who are on a long holiday to New Zealand. They did not trust agents with the keys (they make copies!). They had not had a viewing since Christmas so I did not forsee any problem. In the past 4 weeks they have had so many viewings I have lost count, maybe 15. Seriously interfering with my routine. British, German, Spanish and even a Mexican! One agent said there has been an increase in viewings but no sales.
I am beginning to feel sorry for agents, traipsing round with these unbuyers 😆 One thing the viewers had in common, most were such unlikeable people, the sort of comments they come out with!
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Hi Katy,
yes there are buyers around, just whether there are properties at the budgets they are looking for. Or if not that properties that would be willing to drop.
About how long it takes to sell property. If I remember correctly, 2/3 years ago it took on average 18/24 months to sell a property. Which to a degree is understandable. unlike say the UK 100% were not generally available, so people had to save or borrow money to buy a property. The average spaniard (bit of a generalisation) was priced out of the property market from about 2004 onwards, etc….
For example took a deposit on a property yesterday for a front-line property in Fuengirola. the asking price was 160,000€, they bought in 2004 for 130,500 (officially). They have accepted the offer at 130,000€. After reviewing the figures with them yesterday, what they are doing with the money, paying of another mortgage, taking some funds back to the UK, etc… we worked out how its more beneficial to sell at this price than wait god knows how long for another offer.
About your friend property, was the feedback positive/negative? was there any feedback for that matter! No point wasting your time or the owners. 15 (-/+) should result in at least one offer.
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@katy wrote:
In the past 4 weeks they have had so many viewings I have lost count, maybe 15. Seriously interfering with my routine. British, German, Spanish and even a Mexican! One agent said there has been an increase in viewings but no sales.
I am beginning to feel sorry for agents, traipsing round with these unbuyers 😆 One thing the viewers had in common, most were such unlikeable people, the sort of comments they come out with!
I think there are several explanation:
1) it is the Spring season, when people think the most about buying property.
2) many have heard that prices in Spain have dropped a lot and now are trying to see what property for what price can they get. maybe some are making tours of Andalucia or just Malaga area and trying to see as many properties as possible.
they do not see a property because they want to buy it *at least not initially) but just
to see about 100+ properties and then to compare.The negative comments are expected as they can then say “drop another 10K
because this and that”.3) viewers had a different expectaiton from a property from what it is presented to them.
I perfectly agree that this is the worst time for the agents. The ones that got loaded with money during the boom can use their savings and wait for better times.
The new-entrants will be washed out as there isn’t enough dough.Then there is the problem with the mortgages…
The only escape is for sellers to decrease the prices such that (especially) cash buyer will be satisfied with their purchase.
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Yes, there are really buyers. I am one, with cash in the bank.
What I have found however is that most of the vendors (on CDS) are still asking unrealistic prices for their properties. They think a drop from a peak of say 200k three years ago to 180k now represents a bargain for the purchaser. It doesn´t.
Once I see the property I want at 30-40% lower than the ridiculous prices that were being asked for in the middle of this decade I´ll buy. I´m sure there are lots of others in my position.
I have been very clear about my position with the agents I have been it touch with. Thus far most of them seem to be clinging on to the ´The market is just about to turn´ mentality. Doesn´t bother me. I´m in no hurry and am quite happy to wait for some reality to come into the market.
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@Fuengi wrote:
For example took a deposit on a property yesterday for a front-line property in Fuengirola. the asking price was 160,000€, they bought in 2004 for 130,500 (officially). They have accepted the offer at 130,000€. After reviewing the figures with them yesterday, what they are doing with the money, paying of another mortgage, taking some funds back to the UK, etc… we worked out how its more beneficial to sell at this price than wait god knows how long for another offer.
They should be the happiest persons in the world. To get the almost peak price of
2004 with a slight 20% reduction from the peak is an excellent outcome.I guess the buyer really was in a hurry or unaware of several things…
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@brianc_li wrote:
Yes, there are really buyers. I am one, with cash in the bank.
What I have found however is that most of the vendors (on CDS) are still asking unrealistic prices for their properties. They think a drop from a peak of say 200k three years ago to 180k now represents a bargain for the purchaser. It doesn´t.
what????
got to ask where/what properties have you been looking at?
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@Fuengi wrote:
@brianc_li wrote:
Yes, there are really buyers. I am one, with cash in the bank.
What I have found however is that most of the vendors (on CDS) are still asking unrealistic prices for their properties. They think a drop from a peak of say 200k three years ago to 180k now represents a bargain for the purchaser. It doesn´t.
what????
got to ask where/what properties have you been looking at?
Fuengi, your example was a mere 30K reduction of price i.e. about 20% out of 160000.
Do you know of much better deals (i.e. price reductions for buyers)?
Brian was mentioning that he expects for 30%-40% reduction not 20%. -
@flosmichael wrote:
They should be the happiest persons in the world. To get the almost peak price of
2004 with a slight 20% reduction from the peak is an excellent outcome.I guess the buyer really was in a hurry or unaware of several things…
mmm. I would say prices really peaked in 2006 more than 2004.
anyway, these people have been searching for the last 2 years for a property that met x, y ,z characteristics. And they feel they have found it.
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@flosmichael wrote:
Fuengi, your example was a mere 30K reduction of price i.e. about 20% out of 160000.
Do you know of much better deals (i.e. price reductions for buyers)?
Brian was mentioning that he expects for 30%-40% reduction not 20%.the difference between 2004 and 2006 prices are quite substantial.
the equivalent property here sold for around 175,000 in 2006. There is even one in that block which is trying to sell at that price now and won’t accept much of an offer…
I don’t think its really productive to talk about reductions from the last few years because it does not mean too much. I’m willing to bet anyone here could show properties that in the last year or 2 have been reduced by 40 to 50% but are still overpriced.
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@Fuengi wrote:
@flosmichael wrote:
They should be the happiest persons in the world. To get the almost peak price of
2004 with a slight 20% reduction from the peak is an excellent outcome.I guess the buyer really was in a hurry or unaware of several things…
mmm. I would say prices really peaked in 2006 more than 2004.
anyway, these people have been searching for the last 2 years for a property that met x, y ,z characteristics. And they feel they have found it.
I said almost peak. 2004 was already 2+ times more than at the bottom of the trough in the 90’s. Between 2004 and 2006 the increases were negligible.
It seems that “don’t fall in love with a property” is a good saying.
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@Fuengi wrote:
@flosmichael wrote:
Fuengi, your example was a mere 30K reduction of price i.e. about 20% out of 160000.
Do you know of much better deals (i.e. price reductions for buyers)?
Brian was mentioning that he expects for 30%-40% reduction not 20%.the difference between 2004 and 2006 prices are quite substantial.
the equivalent property here sold for around 175,000 in 2006. There is even one in that block which is trying to sell at that price now and won’t accept much of an offer…
I don’t think its really productive to talk about reductions from the last few years because it does not mean too much. I’m willing to bet anyone here could show properties that in the last year or 2 have been reduced by 40 to 50% but are still overpriced.
From 175 to 130 is still only a 25% reduction… An expected at least 30% reduction would bring the price to about 120K.
The person who wants to sell it for 175K now is wasting everybody’s time.
I would think any estate agent should refuse to deal with such sellers.What do you consider to be the best sale deal (for buyers) that you witness in say the last month ?
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I did not get the feedback. Maybe my friend got it by e-mail. They are touring so only logging in every few days. A swedish couple viewed twice but the agent told me they had returned without buying anything.
The only comments I know were said whilst I was there. One couple said it wasn’t private enough for them (you could swim in the nuddy in their pool 🙄 ). Given the budget and they want views and close to the sea I would defy anyone to find anything much more isolated.
Another asked why no CH (they could have found that out before!) and at the price they could easily install it.
I did nearly lose it once when the agent spent a long time discussing other properties she had that they could view. I said (politely) that I was waiting to leave and could they discuss their other viewing timetable off the premises 😆
Another whinge, why do agents keep calling and want to arrange a viewing within an hour. Not just one agent, they all do it. I do really sympathise with you guys though 🙁
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@Fuengi wrote:
@flosmichael wrote:
I said almost peak. 2004 was already 2+ times more than at the bottom of the trough in the 90’s. Between 2004 and 2006 the increases were negligible.
Flosmichael not going to argue with you, not much point.
I can only go by personal experience.
You said an increase from 160K (2004) to 175K (2006). This is 9%, not much.
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One agent told me that he does not expect prices to fall much more 😕 I do know that the couple i have posted about have reduced substantially and will not go much lower as they wanted to buy a smaller property and release some money. they have said if it doesn’t sell now they will just stick with it. Think a lot of owners here think likewise.
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@katy wrote:
One agent told me that he does not expect prices to fall much more 😕 I do know that the couple i have posted about have reduced substantially and will not go much lower as they wanted to buy a smaller property and release some money. they have said if it doesn’t sell now they will just stick with it. Think a lot of owners here think likewise.
Katy, if they do not want to decrease the price anymore than expect at least another 100+ “timewaster” who will see the house and never return with a call…
If buyers do not buy in April 2009 (when the economic situatios is still OK), they will not buy later when the s*** will really hit the fan…
But the sellers who do not really want to sell should not be bothered by that. They just have to recover their love for their current property. 😀
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@flosmichael wrote:
From 175 to 130 is still only a 25% reduction… An expected at least 30% reduction would bring the price to about 120K.
The person who wants to sell it for 175K now is wasting everybody’s time.
I would think any estate agent should refuse to deal with such sellers.What do you consider to be the best sale deal (for buyers) that you witness in say the last month ?
again talking about % seem rather pointless. The could have sold before at 240,000. Does not mean it should sell now at 168,000 now.
I agree selling at 175,000 is unrealistic, don’t know whether it was the agent or buyer that pirced it at that.
As it is the property we’ve taken a deposit on should have been on hte market for 145,000€.A very high quality development we know of had a resale penthouse. 3 bedroom, 2 bathroom, 120m2 plus 150m2 terrace (off proeprty and roof). sold for 252,000. 2/3 years ago selling at 390/420,000€.
Best i can think of right now. -
@flosmichael wrote:
@Fuengi wrote:
@flosmichael wrote:
I said almost peak. 2004 was already 2+ times more than at the bottom of the trough in the 90’s. Between 2004 and 2006 the increases were negligible.
Flosmichael not going to argue with you, not much point.
I can only go by personal experience.
You said an increase from 160K (2004) to 175K (2006). This is 9%, not much.
if id did i apologise. in 2004 130K.
And i might misunderstand, when i refer to peak i mean that prices reach the highest price they were selling, or better the highest price people were willing to pay.
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@Fuengi wrote:
@flosmichael wrote:
@Fuengi wrote:
@flosmichael wrote:
I said almost peak. 2004 was already 2+ times more than at the bottom of the trough in the 90’s. Between 2004 and 2006 the increases were negligible.
Flosmichael not going to argue with you, not much point.
I can only go by personal experience.
You said an increase from 160K (2004) to 175K (2006). This is 9%, not much.
if id did i apologise. in 2004 130K.
And i might misunderstand, when i refer to peak i mean that prices reach the highest price they were selling, or better the highest price people were willing to pay.
Sorry, it was my mistake. You indeed said 130K in 2004. Then a 30% increase in 2 years was huge, poor souls the ones who bought in 2006…
Anyway, you know much better than me the situation. From afar, I consider
that to pay now a 2004 price is way too much, considering that many properties had a 30% reduction only in the last 12 months. But I do not know the circumstances so maybe the buyer was lucky to buy the property of his dreams. -
@flosmichael wrote:
Sorry, it was my mistake. You indeed said 130K in 2004. Then a 30% increase in 2 years was huge, poor souls the ones who bought in 2006…
Anyway, you know much better than me the situation. From afar, I consider
that to pay now a 2004 price is way too much, considering that many properties had a 30% reduction only in the last 12 months. But I do not know the circumstances so maybe the buyer was lucky to buy the property of his dreams.most people who bought in 2006 bought whatever/wherever as prices could ONLY GO UP!¡! many are going to have problems selling at what they bought for then.
Any property that has been reduced by 30% in the last 12 month are still (in general) too expensive.
I’m not going to say this property is a bargain as such things are subjective. Maybe in 12 months that same property will sell for 100,000 or maybe at 150,000. All i can say is between myself and my colleagues we thought it was a realistic/reasonable figure.
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If buyers do not buy in April 2009 (when the economic situatios is still OK), they will not buy later when the s*** will really hit the fan..
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Hi Flosmichael; what’s going to happen? we can’t bear much more !! –
From what i hear there are many “buyers” with deep pockets but they all want to pay 1/2 price ; ie peak prices reached in 2003 less 50% – Apart from isolated sellers this makes the agents job almost impossible….. I’m not talking about sub prime areas sold by the “ace” agents to flipper buyers……..they can’t sell at any price and should just give their investments away now !!
What is good anyway is that there is still a lot of interest in Spain and always will be …….. we just have to swallow the bitter pill that our properties here are worth a lot less then we think !!
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@UBEDA wrote:
If buyers do not buy in April 2009 (when the economic situatios is still OK), they will not buy later when the s*** will really hit the fan..
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Hi Flosmichael; what’s going to happen? we can’t bear much more !! –
Just much more people unemployed. Budget cuts, continously falling house price,
austerity, people living withi their means. Just a slight turn back of time to
periods where people wanted to buy less and nobody gave them money to keep-up-with-Jonesses.“peak prices reached in 2003 less 50%”
Those investors really are generous. 😀
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Fuengi, I´ve been offline for a few days hence my delay in replying.
The particular place I am looking at is Nerja. There are a few bargains around but at present they are few and far between. I´ve been monitoring the market there closely for the past six months or so. It appears that very little is selling, pretty well every property that was on the market when I started looking is still up for sale. The few people who have been realistic about their asking prices have managed to shift their properties.
Lots of denial around methinks.
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@brianc_li wrote:
Fuengi, I´ve been offline for a few days hence my delay in replying.
The particular place I am looking at is Nerja. There are a few bargains around but at present they are few and far between. I´ve been monitoring the market there closely for the past six months or so. It appears that very little is selling, pretty well every property that was on the market when I started looking is still up for sale. The few people who have been realistic about their asking prices have managed to shift their properties.
Lots of denial around methinks.
well brian its the same along the coast.
not so familiar with Nerja. Can you give examples of waht sold? plus average price of unsold?
thanks
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What I have been particularly looking at is apartments.
The two that I have seen shift reasonably quickly (In 1-2 months) had been reduced. In one case from 189k to 125k, in the other from 175k to 120k. at this price both represented decent value, around 1100 per sq meter and were in decent condition in good locations and established communities. In the end I didn´t go for either as they didn´t tick enough boxes for me.
On my last viewing trip (in Feb) I felt that the vendors of most of the places I saw were living in cloud cookoo land. Many were wanting well over 2k per sq meter for what were very ordinary properties. I looked at 15 places in total, all but the two I mentioned above are still on the market. What price reductions there have been on them thus far are in the region of 10%.
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@mjw wrote:
Looks like people are buying la torre golf resort ( polaris world ) apts now selling at 100k euro not to long ago selling well over 160k euro.
There is a big difference between:
– sellers asking 100k euro not to long ago selling well over 160k euro
– sellers getting 100k euro not to long ago selling well over 160k euro
It is true that prices have fallen there but this does not mean people are buying.
Who knows what is going to happen to all the Polaris World stuff in the future?I guess you can already offer 60K, maybe somebody will sell. If not now, for sure in 1 year from now.
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flosmichael this tells me people are buying http://www.theresorts.co.uk/polaris-world-resales-ltgr.html my friend has just bought
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@mjw wrote:
flosmichael this tells me poeople are buying http://www.theresorts.co.uk/polaris-world-resales-ltgr.html my friend has just bought
OK, so what kind of advise would you like to receive from us?
If you want to buy , there are sites advertising for 99K, maybe less. If you like golfing and do not mind being in the middle of nowhere, it might be a good purchase.
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Sorry i thoght this topic started with is any one buying, i was just saying YES people are buying, and no i do not work for polaris world, if you look closer at the web site you will see its not polaris world but a agent that sells polaris world resales. flosmichael,you ask what kind of advise would you like to receive from us. NONE THANKS if i need advice ill google it, thanks for the offer, NOT
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@goodstich44 wrote:
flosmichael
£60.000 sounds about right for the location?!
I do not know if £60K is about right. Depends whether you want to live there or not.
I have been once there. If I were a golfer, I would have probably enjoyed it more.
But as a non-golfer it can be boring as it is quite faraway from everything.Besides, thre are so many owners that want to sell and do not pay the fees so I am not sure how well is the resort taken care of. The community fees are high.
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@Fuengi wrote:
@mjw wrote:
This resort is complete with a very nice hotel on it, Inez do you they will go as low as 60k ?
that was the original selling prices.
euros not pounds.
When was that price?
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@flosmichael wrote:
@Fuengi wrote:
@mjw wrote:
This resort is complete with a very nice hotel on it, Inez do you they will go as low as 60k ?
that was the original selling prices.
euros not pounds.
When was that price?
2001. BUT i am kind of wrong… 60,000gbp as goodstich/Inez have mentioned. Advertised at the time a 89,000€ and 83,000€.
I know of some that sold below that, but no clear figures. I believe some sold at about 60,000€. Don’t hold it to me though
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@Fuengi wrote:
@flosmichael wrote:
@Fuengi wrote:
@mjw wrote:
This resort is complete with a very nice hotel on it, Inez do you they will go as low as 60k ?
that was the original selling prices.
euros not pounds.
When was that price?
2001. BUT i am kind of wrong… 60,000gbp as goodstich/Inez have mentioned. Advertised at the time a 89,000€ and 83,000€.
I know of some that sold below that, but no clear figures. I believe some sold at about 60,000€. Don’t hold it to me though
Thank you for the information Fuengi. I guess falling under 80K Euros will be disastrous for many people who bought there… But they will have to live with it…
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@flosmichael wrote:
@mjw wrote:
flosmichael,you ask what kind of advise would you like to receive from us. NONE THANKS if i need advice ill google it, thanks for the offer, NOT
Then why do you bother us with your dubious resale site?
I did not think i would get all this sh-t when i joined from polaris world buffs sat in the cds or in there garden sheds thinking of buying in spain one day, keep wishing dreamers.
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There was nothing offered at la Torre under €160,000 when the project was first released around 2003!
Yes it was over-priced, but not anywhere near the price fuengi is claiming for La Torre.
Polaris were offering Golf Suites at Condado de Alhama in 2007 for €89,000 but they were not 2 bed, they were 1 bed pokey hovels in the worst part of the development, even though they claim to be located in a superior part of the resort.
It is possible to buy a 2 bed 1 bath apartment on La Torre now at €90,000, virtualy half the original price, but the original price was 30% more than the real value in the first place.
They are worth €90,000 if you are prepared to hang on to them until the new Murcia airport is fully operational in around 2013 as I genuinly think they will show a decent profit over 60 months or so.
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Hi peter you are right. I was generalising about polaris world, not any specific project there, never sold that way. Had one of their bloody sale people in our office every now and again . If i gave the impression otherwise, apologies.
@mjw wrote:
I did not think i would get all this sh-t when i joined from polaris world buffs sat in the cds or in there garden sheds thinking of buying in spain one day, keep wishing dreamers.
bit of an extreme reaction don’t you think?
although people on this forum can be wary of new posters at times you second post is straight to a resale site where just enough properties on it are sold to make it look like you better buy now or else… understandable people might be a bit dubious, no? -
Fuengi wrote:Hi peter you are right. I was generalising about polaris world, not any specific project there, never sold that way. Had one of their bloody sale people in our office every now and again . If i gave the impression otherwise, apologies.
quote]Not to worry Fuengi, PW at best are a confusing company, they will offer a 2 bed 1 bath apartment for €166,751 and next door offer a similar one at €189,988!!!
I don’t unerstand how they arrive at these prices, especially the oddments at the end of the prices, why not round them to the nearest 5k????
You may have had Edith as your PW rep. She was our sales manager for 1 year or so, not only quite beautiful, but also excellent at her job and honest too. Perhaps she moved further round to Puerto Banus and you never met her.
Pity Fuengi, you would have been quite impressed 🙂
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not so much that it was confusing, I just took an extreme dislike to the developments.
A self enclosed development that contributes nothing whatsoever to the surroundings. Whereas we can all criticise certain aspects of the building boom at least most of the building created stakeholders in the local community and allowed for the new home owners to contribute/add to the local culture. Polaris world does none of that.
No different from those resort hotels where people visit, stay within the hotel for the full holiday then go back home. argh
(bit of a generalisation i know, just personal opinion)
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@Fuengi wrote:
not so much that it was confusing, I just took an extreme dislike to the developments.
A self enclosed development that contributes nothing whatsoever to the surroundings. Whereas we can all criticise certain aspects of the building boom at least most of the building created stakeholders in the local community and allowed for the new home owners to contribute/add to the local culture. Polaris world does none of that.
No different from those resort hotels where people visit, stay within the hotel for the full holiday then go back home. argh
(bit of a generalisation i know, just personal opinion)
Mmmm not so sure about enclosed and not contributing Fuengi, the Spanish businesses around the PW resorts have done very well out of the British owners there.
Los Alcazares/Balsicas/Valle del Sol etc have grown very rich from the Polaris owners buying air-con, furniture, plants, building extenions, pools, spa’s, and every other kind of purchase.
I have seen peasant bar owners acquire Mercedes SL500’s, shoddy domestic appliance shops extend into large warehouses and everything else in between.
That doesn’t take into account the 7% purchase tax that the government have taken on 20,000 properties or the local lawyers, banks and accountants who help many of the Polaris World owners set up homes and businesses.
In my local venta on Sunday mornings where I stop for a coffee and cognac before my cycle ride, the locals always ask me “when Los Ingleses will come back”? They don’t mean the people, they mean sterling!!
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@Peter Good wrote:
It is possible to buy a 2 bed 1 bath apartment on La Torre now at €90,000, virtualy half the original price, but the original price was 30% more than the real value in the first place.
They are worth €90,000 if you are prepared to hang on to them until the new Murcia airport is fully operational in around 2013 as I genuinly think they will show a decent profit over 60 months or so.
If you were to choose between say a 90K Euros 2 bedroom apartment in
a) La Torre Resort
b) almost new close to the sea in Los Alcazares
c) almost new on on La Manga del Mar Menor stripwhich one would you say is a better deal?
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@flosmichael wrote:
@Peter Good wrote:
It is possible to buy a 2 bed 1 bath apartment on La Torre now at €90,000, virtualy half the original price, but the original price was 30% more than the real value in the first place.
They are worth €90,000 if you are prepared to hang on to them until the new Murcia airport is fully operational in around 2013 as I genuinly think they will show a decent profit over 60 months or so.
If you were to choose between say a 90K Euros 2 bedroom apartment in
a) La Torre Resort
b) almost new close to the sea in Los Alcazares
c) almost new on on La Manga del Mar Menor stripwhich one would you say is a better deal?
That depends on what I had to spend Flosmichael, I certainly wouldn’t get b) for 90k and I wouldn’t give a thank you for anything on La Manga strip which is part ghost town for 9 months of the year. La manga strip is truly awful, I stopped offering anything there 3 years ago, as walking clients past scruffy apartments in the old part of town dodging needles and syringes, or taking them to overpriced new areas with 65m2 apartments at €265,000!
I would honestly prefer €90,000 La Torre, only 15 mins to Los Alcazares and wouldn’t care if I never saw La Manga strip again!
La Torre is quite well occupied all year round now, the golf course is very nice and there is a half decent community building there, so, I would go for La Torre.
I don’t honestly know where many people get their view of Polaris World resorts from, especially as the vast majority of critics come from the CDS and have never visited Murcia let alone a PW resort.
They may not be for everyone, but, for the golfer and leisure tourist, they are really quite OK.
If your not a golfer, why even contemplate them in the first place! They do what they say on the label.
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@Peter Good wrote:
That depends on what I had to spend Flosmichael, I certainly wouldn’t get b) for 90k and.
This is not quite correct:
are just some fast example. I guess an 80K Euro offer would be easily accepted for any of this.
About La Torre. My interest would have been in:
– having gas central heating which is essential during the almost freezing
winters in Murcia.
– being closer to Murcia city and the Sierra Espuna.
But a 200+ Euros/month community fees are a deal killer. -
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Thank god for Peter Good he is the only person on this topic who has the facts also here is another agent that sells polaris property lets see how long it is before someone tells me i work for them also. http://www.murciagolfproperties.co.uk/
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Well, you seem to just spend your time here telling people they are wrong. 🙄
I reckon that the example you give is indeed UK based, the website is .co.uk & registered to an address in Harrogate, and the website says the the UK office is in Harrogate, with “Showhouses” in Spain. That’s not my idea of being based in Spain!
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@mjw wrote:
how long it is before someone tells me i work for them also. http://www.murciagolfproperties.co.uk/
You might not work for them but you are wasting your time here. Whoever wanted to buy in PW resorts did that already or is still waiting for the prices to drop further.
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El anciano barclays banks are registered in London are they not, do they not offices in spain, yes they do . flosmicha i would take my chance on buying on la torre 20 min from the sea in the middle of a field , than buy that rubbish you showed for 90k it look 90 years old if nothing else your easly please. have you got more info on the 200+ Euros/month community fees cant wait to see which properties they are on ( if any)
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@mjw wrote:
El anciano barclays banks are registered in London are they not, do they not offices in spain, yes they do . flosmicha i would take my chance on buying on la torre 20 min from the sea in the middle of a field , than buy that rubbish you showed for 90k it look 90 years old if nothing else your easly please. have you got more info on the 200+ Euros/month community fees cant wait to see which properties they are on ( if any)
Hey Mjw, then buy in La Torre, who cares what you are doing?
If you knew how to read a bit of Spanish (ignorant people like you usually don’t learn foreign languages)
you would have understood that those properties are about 5 years old. They were just examples, I would never buy property next to dirty and smelling lakes like Mar Menor.About the community fee in La Torre. The 200 Euro/month was the amount that my friend (who owns the villa we visited there) told me about. It is not my fault if he exagerated.
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@mjw wrote:
barclays banks are registered in London are they not, do they not offices in spain, yes they do
Oh, I see now, you are trying to change the meaning of the word based. Katy said “based”, In normal english usage, within the context of an organisation, this does not mean that they have branches, offices or showrooms in other locations.
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flosmichael so what will you be buying then wiseman of spanish property (if anything) please tell us , on a budget 100k euro. i bet its on polaris resort but you dont want to us, when can i book in to learn foreign languages from you.have you got 200+ Euros/month community fees yet for us all to look at.
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@mjw wrote:
El anciano barclays banks are registered in London are they not, do they not offices in spain, yes they do .
normally i try to be nice to new people, but this is getting stupid now.
you are wrong about barclays
Barclays Banks Plc is based in london:
Barclays Bank PLC. Registered in England. Registered No: 1026167. Registered Office: 1 Churchill Place, London, E14 5HP. Barclays Bank PLC adheres to the principles of the Banking Code. A copy of the Code is available on request. “The Woolwich” and “Woolwich” are trading names of Barclays Bank PLC.whereas for Spain:
All of the products and services contained in this website are provided by both BARCLAYS BANK, S.A. and its affiliate companies (hereinafter referred to as BARCLAYS) in accordance with the regulations in force regarding banking services and under the supervision of the Bank of Spain and the National Securities Market Commission and other regulatory entities. BARCLAYS BANK, S.A. is an entity registered at the Bank of Spain with registration number 0065, business address at Plaza Colón 1 and Fiscal Identification Number (CIF) A47001946.whereas the estate agency you have referred to is an Ltd registered in the UK with a showhouse in one of the polaris world projects, no CIF number, etc… NOT THE SAME THING
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can we forget about those bloody urbanisations now? If Peter Good could confirm whether he has seen an increase in enquiries/sales in the area, that would be helpful as he is better informed that most of us on the area.
Same for Costa Blanca, etc… if anyone has any info.
the thread is: “is anyone buying”
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@mjw wrote:
flosmichael so what will you be buying then wiseman of spanish property (if anything) please tell us , on a budget 100k euro. i bet its on polaris resort but you dont want to us, when can i book in to learn foreign languages from you.have you got 200+ Euros/month community fees yet for us all to look at.
I guess you need to learn a bit more English before learning foreign languages…
What you wrote does not make much sense.Anyway, as I said before, I do not care where you want to buy and I care even less about PW resorts.
End of discussion.
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@flosmichael wrote:
I guess you need to learn a bit more English before learning foreign languages…
What you wrote does not make much sense.Anyway, as I said before, I do not care where you want to buy and I care even less about PW resorts.
End of discussion.
well clearly on 100k you can only buy in Polaris world. Nothing in all of spain at those prices.
that and he wants you to teach him a foreign language. looks like you’ve made a friend!
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@Fuengi wrote:
@flosmichael wrote:
I guess you need to learn a bit more English before learning foreign languages…
What you wrote does not make much sense.Anyway, as I said before, I do not care where you want to buy and I care even less about PW resorts.
End of discussion.
well clearly on 100k you can only buy in Polaris world. Nothing in all of spain at those prices.
that and he wants you to teach him a foreign language. looks like you’ve made a friend!
Thanks for the translation Fuengi. 😀 Now it makes more sense. 😀
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OK, back on topic.
As for the CB, I know that some are selling at the moment, as a house I was trying to get a mortgage on is now sold. And I am aware of another sale recently in my area. It seems that the agents in my area are busier now, but I still feel sales are slow, and there is certainly nothing like a healthy upturn in the market.
I feel really torn about the future if the market in this area. The Spanish I know are very pessimistic about housing (and the economy in general), so it seems that things will be slow for a good while yet. However, the other side of this argument is that mortgages are available at good terms, and the market seems to be getting more affordable across the board.
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@El anciano wrote:
OK, back on topic.
As for the CB, I know that some are selling at the moment, as a house I was trying to get a mortgage on is now sold. And I am aware of another sale recently in my area. It seems that the agents in my area are busier now, but I still feel sales are slow, and there is certainly nothing like a healthy upturn in the market.
I feel really torn about the future if the market in this area. The Spanish I know are very pessimistic about housing (and the economy in general), so it seems that things will be slow for a good while yet. However, the other side of this argument is that mortgages are available at good terms, and the market seems to be getting more affordable across the board.
Anything from oportunidadescam? It seems that the number of properties there is increasing…
About how much was the house you were trying to buy and in about which area?
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No, nothing from that source, although I would seem that they have cleared through some stock.
The trouble with the the CAM stuff, is that it is just in the wrong areas (at least for me). However, I do keep my eye on the site, as I guess it’s just a matter of time.
Also, I’m pretty sure that they only put a small number of there repos on the site. I am aware of 2 houses that were repo’d by CAM, and one never went on the site, the 2nd one seems as though it is not available for sale. Maybe these will go to bank employees.
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BTW, one significant change in my area has been that many Spanish agents have seemed to dramatically drop asking prices. The Brit agents are still mostly high, and need a lot of haggling to stand a chance of getting a good deal. We are about to try a whole bunch of Spanish agents, and it’s looking quite promising at the moment.
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@El anciano wrote:
BTW, one significant change in my area has been that many Spanish agents have seemed to dramatically drop asking prices. The Brit agents are still mostly high, and need a lot of haggling to stand a chance of getting a good deal. We are about to try a whole bunch of Spanish agents, and it’s looking quite promising at the moment.
Which area are you looking? Around Denia/Javea?
We will be for 1 week in El Campello at the end of July.
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I did wonder if the property market would improve because of other investments also being either risky/paying low returns 😕
People having large sums in banks are getting little return on savings, stock market volatile. Why not invest in property 💡 and also be able to spend more time in the sun. Maybe (some) property will drop lower but the bargains maybe the ones not wanted by anyone sane 😉 Some say wait a couple of years but, you could miss the boat…and lose out of two years use of said property. If I want something I want it now, or asap 😀
Not saying I am correct…just throwing it around!
As for Polaris, I havent been. Have read and heard enough negativity about it. Some golfers from my club went and they weren’t impressed. Most golfers, owners and tourists don’t actually want to stay on them, just play several decent courses in a week.
Polaris may be the cheapest but so was Bulgaria and Egypt 😆
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No, I would like to live up there (Javea/Denia), but it is too far a commute for us. We are currently focusing on the area between Elche & Alicante.
I firmly expect to buy in that area in the next 6 months, we just need to find a realistic seller, and although the situation is much better now, we are still seeing plenty of dreamers. In one case we saw 3 very similar houses, and the prices (after negotiations) ranged from 190K to 380K! Needless to say that we tried to buy the least expensive.
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Katy,
I can see that you are trying to stay optimistic but property, particularly in Spain, is at present a very poor investment. If you look at all the fundamentals, in particular the affordability indexes, it looks like a one way street at present and that is heading downwards. Next to that 1-2% return from a bank looks positively attractive.
As I have posted elsewhere I am looking to buy at present but it will be a lifestyle purchase rather than an investment. As long as the basics are so clearly showing that the market is heavily overvalued I simply don´t believe the guff that you see every few weeks `Signs of optimism´, ´Market has turned´, etc etc. IMO that is PR put out by those with a vested interest in selling Spanish property. When Tinsa indicate the market is close to bottoming I´ll take notice. Not before then.
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@brianc_li wrote:
As long as the basics are so clearly showing that the market is heavily overvalued I simply don´t believe the guff that you see every few weeks `Signs of optimism´, ´Market has turned´, etc etc. IMO that is PR put out by those with a vested interest in selling Spanish property. When Tinsa indicate the market is close to bottoming I´ll take notice. Not before then.
I completely agree, however it does (of course) depend on the sale in question. I feel that there are a few really good buys out there, but you really have to work at it. The market as a whole is certainly not at the point were sensible people would buy as an investment. However, there are always a few foolish investors, that will believe the hype, and buy an “investment” now.
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@brianc_li wrote:
. When Tinsa indicate the market is close to bottoming I´ll take notice. Not before then.
forget about TINSA, only last winter they were reporting price increases in Andalucia.
I’ve heard of two “large” sales in the Marbella are this week;both are houses that have been on for just over €4,000,000 for the last three years. They are going through at just over €2,000,000. Also, a group of Spanish friends of mine have just bought a couple of townhouses in Nueva Andalucia (Marbella) for half price from the banks…. so whilst i wouldn’t say there are green shoots, like any market (stock market for example) the brave and solvent are buying whilst the meek wait for the upswing.
I’m not trying to talk the market up, but do see good buys happening at 50% off. Outlying areas/ grade 2 areas etc will probably be in the doldrums for the next five years, by which time they will need total renovation or demolition!!
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UBEDA
I’m no expert, but 50% sounds about right I should think. As you say, what will happen to all the undesirable properties? Probably have to flog them off at almost any price in the end? Hard to see recovery while so much money is tied up in property that for various reasons is not being sold/used. The old argument that properties won’t be sold because they arn’t worth the amount owing on them must crack sooner or later I would have thought in a damage limitation sort of way?
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Just to answer a couple of points raised further up the thread.
Flosmichael put 3 links to properties in Los Alcazares. Link No2 was actually a property in Los Urrutius, about 10 mins south of Alcazares. It’s a pretty grimy part of the Mar Menor and in need of a serious facelift. Some people like it because it’s a bit like Spain from the 1960’s but property is very cheap there, on the whole about 50% less than the desireable parts of Los Alcazares.
Properties 1 & 3 claim to be in Alcazares but I would doubt that, they are probably in Los Nietos or nearby, but many agents list their properties as being in Los Alcazares because it is the nearest big town, even though they can be 10-15 km away.
In answer to Fuengi’s question about sales on La Torre, or any other PW resort, I would have to say, they are no different to any other resorts in Murcia, very few sales anywhere except for the sub €90,000 buyers.
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@Peter Good wrote:
Just to answer a couple of points raised further up the thread.
Flosmichael put 3 links to properties in Los Alcazares. Link No2 was actually a property in Los Urrutius, about 10 mins south of Alcazares. It’s a pretty grimy part of the Mar Menor and in need of a serious facelift. Some people like it because it’s a bit like Spain from the 1960’s but property is very cheap there, on the whole about 50% less than the desireable parts of Los Alcazares.
Properties 1 & 3 claim to be in Alcazares but I would doubt that, they are probably in Los Nietos or nearby, but many agents list their properties as being in Los Alcazares because it is the nearest big town, even though they can be 10-15 km away.
In answer to Fuengi’s question about sales on La Torre, or any other PW resort, I would have to say, they are no different to any other resorts in Murcia, very few sales anywhere except for the sub €90,000 buyers.
Hi Peter,
I wonder what are the desirable parts of Los Alcazares… I thought it was quite an ugly city. I think Las Urrutias is much nicer, no crowds. The 60m from the Sea would be the main attraction for me.
Anyway, considering that the prices have come down more or less everywhere, I decided to concentrate my research only on the areas I really like which are Malaga, Granada (Costa Tropical or close to Sol y Nieve resort) or Denia/Javea/El Campello areas. Two holidays in Murcia were enough for this life. 😀
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I wouldn’t disagree in your preferences flosmichael in your comparisons to Murcia.
I chose Murcia area for it’s future prospects more than anything else.
I also prefer the less intensive sales areas as I only wanted to earn a living at my own pace as opposed to being caught up with the society that exists in other more popular or developed areas.
Now the boom has died away, I am really enjoying the area again. No stress, lot’s more time for fishing and cycling among other things.
Sitting out this recession is to me, far nicer than running flat out in a boom.
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@Peter Good wrote:
I wouldn’t disagree in your preferences flosmichael in your comparisons to Murcia.
I chose Murcia area for it’s future prospects more than anything else.
I also prefer the less intensive sales areas as I only wanted to earn a living at my own pace as opposed to being caught up with the society that exists in other more popular or developed areas.
Now the boom has died away, I am really enjoying the area again. No stress, lot’s more time for fishing and cycling among other things.
Sitting out this recession is to me, far nicer than running flat out in a boom.
Hi Peter,
I perfectly agree that Murcia is a relaxing area. But I love hiking and skiing and I suffer enough because I live on an (almost) flat island… My wife loves swimming and Sea so I guess Granada or Malaga will have to be…
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flosmichael wrote’
Two holidays in Murcia were enough for this life.
and
But I love hiking and skiing and I suffer enough because I live on an (almost) flat island… My wife loves swimming and Sea so I guess Granada or Malaga will have to be…Suggest flosmichael IF you stayed out of the purpose built 2nd trashy home market ,built on areas of flat land in the middle of nowhere, and investigated Murcia properly you might be pleasantly surprised.
No actual skiing where I live but plenty of hills/mountains and within minutes to coast as well.
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@Melosine wrote:
flosmichael wrote’
Two holidays in Murcia were enough for this life.
and
But I love hiking and skiing and I suffer enough because I live on an (almost) flat island… My wife loves swimming and Sea so I guess Granada or Malaga will have to be…Suggest flosmichael IF you stayed out of the purpose built 2nd trashy home market ,built on areas of flat land in the middle of nowhere, and investigated Murcia properly you might be pleasantly surprised.
No actual skiing where I live but plenty of hills/mountains and within minutes to coast as well.
Hi Melosine,
I actually visited Murcia quite thoroughly. I liked Mula, Alhama de Murcia,
Cartagena, Puerto de Mazzaron, Lorca and Aguilas.The Sierra Espugna mountains and Cabo Cope are very nice but I prefer Sierra Nevada or even to the hills/mountains in the Marina Alta region.
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@katy wrote:
But, I (stupidly) agreed to hold a key for a friends who are on a long holiday to New Zealand. They did not trust agents with the keys (they make copies!). They had not had a viewing since Christmas so I did not forsee any problem. In the past 4 weeks they have had so many viewings I have lost count, maybe 15. Seriously interfering with my routine. British, German, Spanish and even a Mexican! One agent said there has been an increase in viewings but no sales.
I am beginning to feel sorry for agents, traipsing round with these unbuyers 😆 One thing the viewers had in common, most were such unlikeable people, the sort of comments they come out with!
Quoting myself here as a long time ago.
Well….I sold the house, through sheer luck 😯
Couple of weeks later I was leaving the property after a viewing. A spanish guy a two houses down the road asked me if they were selling the house (it has been on sale 2 years but no sale sign). He said his Son would be interested as they have a small place and now have 2 kids. He hadn’t realised it was on sale and asked which agents it was with. (he said “phsst! wouldn’t touch them) Long story but the couple are back from New Zealand and accepted their 2nd offer on Friday. So, I saved them agents fees, although they have offered me a nice little sum on completion 8) .
Have to add that it was fate that I just happened to be leaving the house at that moment and spoke spanish. Also luck that the Father is rich and has several businesses, not many like him around and spanish like all their family living close!
Anyone want to employ me 😉 😆
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