- This topic has 50 replies, 10 voices, and was last updated 17 years, 8 months ago by
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If your house needs major works doing, then it is highly likely you will require a major works licence for which you will require the services of an architect.
So, why not save yourself a lot of hassle and employ an architect now, get them to prepare the schedule of works and specification and ask them to go out to tender to builders on your behalf? -
@hillybilly wrote:
If your house needs major works doing, then it is highly likely you will require a major works licence for which you will require the services of an architect.
So, why not save yourself a lot of hassle and employ an architect now, get them to prepare the schedule of works and specification and ask them to go out to tender to builders on your behalf?There is to be no alteration to the size or shape of the house.
Only internal work. Like a working toilet and stuff. 😯
Plus the raising of floors and dampproofing of walls.Most builders obtain the licences anyway from what I hear. 😕
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Here we ago again. Don’t let’s waste our money on professional fees, let’s listen to the builder and when things go wrong, expect sympathy.
If a working toilet, raising floors, damp proofing isn.t quite major, unless you know what your doing, what is.
I assume you will reply on the builder for the floor spec., type of dpc and remedial works after, to specify and just believe what he says and pay for what he asks?
Read the numerous sob stories and perhaps you will take professional advice then.
My response may not be appreciated, but at least it make make the person asking the question think just a little?Finally “Most builders obtain the licences anyway from what I hear” if you rely on what you hear and not what you know. SEEK PROFESSIONAL ADVICE.
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@mg wrote:
Here we ago again. Don’t let’s waste our money on professional fees, let’s listen to the builder and when things go wrong, expect sympathy.
If a working toilet, raising floors, damp proofing isn.t quite major, unless you know what your doing, what is.
I assume you will reply on the builder for the floor spec., type of dpc and remedial works after, to specify and just believe what he says and pay for what he asks?
Read the numerous sob stories and perhaps you will take professional advice then.
My response may not be appreciated, but at least it make make the person asking the question think just a little?Finally “Most builders obtain the licences anyway from what I hear” if you rely on what you hear and not what you know. SEEK PROFESSIONAL ADVICE.
My husband is working with architects in Madrid who will help us to sort out the plans and specs to make sure they are up to scratch.
We have been dealing with a lot of Spanish agents over the last two years so we are not totally naive.
We even managed to get our own NIEs…. wow. not really a problem.Don’t you think that some people try to overcomplicate things?
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@Laury wrote:
Why is no one just a little bit helpful for a change?
Well, I did try but I guess the advice wasn’t what you wanted to hear.
You’re obviously having a problem obtaining quotations from builders, otherwise you wouldn’t have posted your request surely?
You need the plans, schedule of works, specifications etc in place BEFORE you try to get quotes, otherwise, what are they quoting for? They’ll all come up with quotes on the back of fag packets for their own different interpretations of what you want.
Do things in the right order and employ a professional if you don’t have the relevant experience or time.
It WILL save you time and money in the long run. But then that’s not what you want to hear is it?! Best of luck. -
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Hi Laury,
From what I can tell you have already got an Architect working for you to redesign your house? Can they find builders or are these the useless ones!!
Sorry, I can’t answer your original question but are going to pick up on something else instead – licenses.
Unfortunately, a lot more is classed as “major works” than in the UK..you need a minor works license for everything that does not alter the structure of the house or change its use..this starts with painting the inside… minor licenses are pretty easy to get, you simply fill in the correct form and hand over your money at the ayuntamiento! The license also means that you are covered if your builder has an accident whilst on site etc..builders are not meant to start work until you have the license…but having said that, it depends on the area, the builder etc as to what happens in reality!
Good luck.
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I also tried to help – “SEEK PROFESSIONAL ADVICE”
“Don’t you think that some people try to overcomplicate things?” – No, haven’t noticed, it is usually people try to over simplify by thinking that what has taken years of study and experience, can also be done by every man and his dog.
That is until things go wrong. -
Yes thanks heatherpsk. The architect is in Madrid though and we need someone in the Costa Blanca for the work.
A london architect wouldn’t know a yorkshire builder, would he?I understand that the licence costs are based on the material costs of the reform and that the application states the cost and we pay the 1% charge for this.
We tend to do a lot ourselves and don’t do like many others and leave it to a company to do everything for you from flying you out to signing on the dotted line.
We employed our own solicitor and have a chap out there to keep an eye on things.
We also got to know the Spanish neighbours who are more than willing to keep an eye on things too. 🙂There are no Brits in the immediate area.
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@Laury wrote:
The architect is in Madrid though and we need someone in the Costa Blanca for the work.
So, approach the College of Technical Architects/Aparajedores for your area and ask them to provide you with some local contacts. They keep a database of professionals and their specialisations.
We all like to do things ourselves as much as possible but if you needed an operation you wouldn’t perform it yourself, would you? You’d employ the services of a surgeon I hope 😉 You weren’t averse to employing a solicitor after all.
p.s. Technically, raising floors falls under the category of Major Works not Minor. -
@hillybilly wrote:
@Laury wrote:
The architect is in Madrid though and we need someone in the Costa Blanca for the work.
So, approach the College of Technical Architects/Aparajedores for your area and ask them to provide you with some local contacts. They keep a database of professionals and their specialisations.
We all like to do things ourselves as much as possible but if you needed an operation you wouldn’t perform it yourself, would you? You’d employ the services of a surgeon I hope 😉 You weren’t averse to employing a solicitor after all.
p.s. Technically, raising floors falls under the category of Major Works not Minor.Which is why I asked if anyone knew of a good builder in the area. 😀
We will be applying for the licences too but you need the costings first. The licence is based on the material costs.
I think we are talking in circles a bit here. 😕 -
Laury
Your clearly receiving replies that are of no help to your simple request
I think you are asking too much of the ones that have replied.
Please be assured that some of us have better manners to a ladies question and reply in a helpfull manner.
These type of replies always cause offence and suggest you seek advice elsewhere and trust you will not respond.Regards
Jim -
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“These type of replies always cause offence and suggest you seek advice elsewhere”
OK so it is wrong to suggest that people seek professional advice. Next we will read that it is recommended to buy of plan, believe the salesman, use the developers lawyer and believe them when they say all is OK.
Try telling that to the purchasers who have property subject to demolition orders.
ALWAYS SEEK PROFFESIONAL ADVICE. Or risk your hard earned cash. -
@mg wrote:
“These type of replies always cause offence and suggest you seek advice elsewhere”
OK so it is wrong to suggest that people seek professional advice. Next we will read that it is recommended to buy of plan, believe the salesman, use the developers lawyer and believe them when they say all is OK.
Try telling that to the purchasers who have property subject to demolition orders.
ALWAYS SEEK PROFFESIONAL ADVICE. Or risk your hard earned cash.Excuse me but we are not buying offplan or using a developer’s lawyer or whatever. We arranged our own money our own transfers- our own NIE etc.
We have found our own property after 2 years of hunting. It is not a modern illegal build.
Why do you generalise and assume that everyone is thick? -
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Another idea, so simple you have probably done it..have you asked your neighbours, in the local bar, the agent you brought through, the ayuntamiento (OK getting desperate now but…), seen any building work going on and asked there…I think we asked anyone and everyone we came into contact with..
We have pretty much the same here, its very hard to find a builder that can start work within a year…we found ours through someone who worked at the estate agents we brought through, although bizarrely he was recommended by 2 others too..
Although MG has made a valid point about seeking professional advice, he/she has no reason to answer so aggressively. I’m sure there is a name for people who deliberately stir up things on forums, an IT one, not a rude one…probably best ignored I think!! Hang in there, this forum is normally full of really helpful people,
Heather
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I’m not being hostile nor implying the OP is thick!
They are having problems finding a builder, so whatever method has been employed up until now to obtain one obviously hasn’t worked.
Nobody has made a personal recommendation, and so I and another contributor are suggesting that a local professional architect or technical architect be engaged now, pre-contract, to assist with finding one. Simple! They can go out to tender, check quotes, draw up a contract, ensure that the spec is complied with, the correct licences obtained and oversee the works, as the OP’s architect is in Madrid. It’s not overcomplicating things, just the opposite. The OP is in the UK so going into the local bar and asking for a builder (who will turn out to be the bar owner’s second cousin once removed) is not really an option. Professionals, in whatever capacity, do exist for a reason.
How can that be construed as in any way offensive or unhelpful or am I missing something here?! -
@glassman wrote:
Laury
Think you may have the wrong forum if you want HELP and advice.
Sorry to say almost all threads start or end in the black.
Try E.O.S as they appear to at least try to help and leave this one to post everything negative as thats what most want to hear.
Regards
JimMark’s going to love that one. 🙄
Laury – I suggest you ignore the above.
It is insulting to many excellent, knowledgable contributors on this forum to suggest this is not a forum for help and advice.
Not all went to the charm school admittedly, but the knowledge, experience and advice is there.
MG is blunt but look at his past posts – his advice is usually painfully true. Heather has invaluable first-hand experience of renovating and Hillybilly is obviously knowledgable through her work. All advice is well-meant am sure.If no offers of recommendations come through in the next few days (give it a bit of time – there are many forum members in your area), suggest you may try sending Mark (the Administrator) a pm. He has good contacts covering all areas of Spain and may just be able to help with a recommendation.
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It is asked “Why do you generalise and assume that everyone is thick?”
It is not a generalisation, it is a comparable.
It is obvious that someone asks questions such as “where can I, how can I, where do I find”, they don’t know the full answer themselves. Rules, regulations etc., are different in UK to most other Countries so a slip up such as considering major item of work to be a minor item of work, can prove to be costly.
If people need to save a few euros then OK, dabble, If not ALWAYS SEEK PROFFESIONAL ADVICE -
I’m sorry but this seems to be getting out of hand.
I only asked if anyone on here could recommend a builder in the Almoradi area.
How did that question cause all the strong retorts about employing professionals?
Isn’t that what I was asking for? A professional?My problem at the moment is that I have 3 “quotes”. Recommended by local Spanish people including the agent I bought from.
These “quotes” are totally vague, open ended, no payment schedules or whatever and just saying it will be done to plan.
Well I am sorry but they weren’t good enough for us. Not “Professional” enough.
So I asked for other suggestions.Not really so complicated is it?
Yes I DO know that we need licences and to increase the value of the house at the town hall.
Please don’t just assume I am an ignorant Brit who wants to hide in an urbanisation with other Brits and think that the Spanish are out to get me.
I love the Spanish. -
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Hello Laury, Just a suggestion – have you tried driving roung the area & getting info from people you can see are having work done on their property? It’s a good way to check out the standard of work & ask the owners for their recommendations/or not ❗ This might sound a bit simplistic bit it’s worked very well for me in the past. All the best to you, Suzanne
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@Suzanne wrote:
Hello Laury, Just a suggestion – have you tried driving roung the area & getting info from people you can see are having work done on their property? It’s a good way to check out the standard of work & ask the owners for their recommendations/or not ❗ This might sound a bit simplistic bit it’s worked very well for me in the past. All the best to you, Suzanne
That sounds good too. As long as the people do proper quotes. 😀
We will have to get out there again soon and do some cruising. 8) -
@Laury wrote:
My problem at the moment is that I have 3 “quotes”. Recommended by local Spanish people including the agent I bought from.
These “quotes” are totally vague, open ended, no payment schedules or whatever and just saying it will be done to plan. Well I am sorry but they weren’t good enough for us. Not “Professional” enough.When employing a builder, YOU, the employer, determine the terms and conditions of the contract – you don’t let the builder tell you when THEY want paying etc. You have the money, you are in the driving seat, not the other way round. The contract and payment terms should already be in the documents you are asking builders to price from.
If the builders are pricing to your pre-prepared drawings, itemised schedule of works and specification there should be nothing vague or open-ended about the quotes. If there is, then I suggest that either the documents you are asking them to price from are vague or open-ended themselves or, yes, the builders shouldn’t be employed because they’ve shown at this early stage that they can’t or won’t follow instructions.
Which is why I am suggesting that if you are not experienced in construction projects, contract documents or with employing builders or don’t have the time or inclination to do it, you a employ a professional – by which I mean a local-to-the-job technical architect – to oversee the whole process for you INCLUDING finding you a builder in the first place.
Trying to cut corners or save time/money by omitting to use the right people for the right job at the appropriate time (now) is just likely to cause you problems, stress and money in the long run.
My advice is not trying to stir things up, it is well meant. I am a civil engineer and building surveyor, have worked in the construction industry for 25 years, on both sides of the fence, and I have seen all too often what can go wrong when people try to do things in the wrong order, without the relevant experience or advice or because there is a lack of information or poor communication – i.e. the customer thinks they are getting one thing and the builder tells them they didn’t include for this that or the other.
Get things right and use the appropriate people at the outset and you are more likely to have a successful project.
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Take Hillybilly’s advice and find someone to oversee the project.
It has been hard enough renovating a house living here..builders needing urgent answers NOW, if they don’t get the answer it will delay the work, getting hold of builders when you need answers, trying to find the right person in the ayuntamiento to give you the right form to complete etc… Sorry if my previous advice sounded impractical but I assumed you might visit your property occasionally 😀 !
Adding to Hillybilly, most builders want half payment up front to pay for materials etc. If you are going to pay by electronic transfer, remember to add in the costs… sorry if you already know this but others might not..
Heather
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No reputable builder should ever want money up front and nor should you ever pay money up front apart from maybe a relatively small “goodwill” gesture (a very small percentage of the overall project cost, NEVER as much as half).
The exception being if you are, for example, ordering custom made windows/doors/kitchen etc which would be useless to anybody else, in which case the builder is quite right to expect you to pay for these in advance.
You should only ever pay for work once it has been completed to your satisfaction. -
The forum by nature is here to help, assist and share experinces
(unfortunately mostly bad) On the forum there are people from all walks of life and all kind of experinces, there are people who were kneive, people used the so called professional and were badly let down, people who were/are shrewed, streetwise, professional etc. Its a mix bag and this is healthyThe slant you will get on a forum will be a reflection of peoples education, life experices and their personality.
Laury asked a very simply question. If you knoew a builder Yes/or no, the tangent that this has gone onto, could have been her follow up postings/request
signed off by
KOFI ANNAN ( COMING OUT OF RETIREMENT ) -
Thank you for the recent replies which are far more helpful. 😀
I do want someone on the ground to keep an eye on things and we thought we had someone. He is not too good though and needs a kick up the back end from time to time.
My husband is also in the construction industry. He is in project management/building services commisssioning and is working in Madrid for Goldman Sachs at the moment. (or is it Sachs Goldman, I can never remember. )
I have never heard of a technical architect and I would appreciate more information on this please?
We would prefer to choose our own builders though and the last “quote” we had was asking for €6000 up front and a €20k stage payment once the work is half done.
I don’t think we are cutting corners but have spent some time with Spanish thinking people who are more shall we say “relaxed” about things. 😆 -
Technical Architects (and Aparajedores) work with Architects. Their services are cheaper and they are usually the people “on the ground” who carry out the day to day work of overseeing a project.
Here, for example is the website of the relevant Colegio in Alicante:
http://www.coaatalicante.org/
Another alternative would be the Colegio Oficial de Peritos e Ingenieros Técnicos: http://www.coitialicante.es/ -
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Claire (I STAND CORRECTED AS THIS SHOULD READ CHARLIE AND I HAVE POSTED AN APPOLOGY TWICE IN LATER POSTINGS WHICH EVERYONE CAN SEE. SORRY SORRY SORRY.
Mark should love this one.?
I strongly suggests he looks at this thread.Mark should then look at the help that is on offer and the variety of threads on the other forum and maybe bring a few ideas to this one.
Laury asked a simple question and until recent postings had every right to feel unhappy with the replies and this is as she says is for the second time.
Perhaps some may wish to consider that similar replies they have made in the past only causes offence and a simple reply would avoid threads getting out of control.LAURY
“I have only ever asked for help twice on this forum and both times someone has come back hard at me and treating me as a complete idiot.
Why is no one just a little bit helpful for a change? “Not my words ? No wonder this forum appears to be running out of steam when thousands who view see these comments and feel they may not wish to join in or ask for the advice which is clearly now shows is available.
Regards
Jim -
@glassman wrote:
Claire
Mark should love this one.?
I strongly suggests he looks at this thread.Concentrate now, glassman. Your obsession with Claire-bashing on the EOS forum seems to have clouded your brain. It was me that wrote the above, not Claire.
@glassman wrote:
Perhaps some may wish to consider that similar replies they have made in the past only causes offence and a simple reply would avoid threads getting out of control.
That’s a bit rich coming from you considering two threads have been locked by Mark because you degenerated them into personal attacks. You also sent rude and abusive pm’s to both Claire and I for which you were booted off the forum……only to reappear under your new name.
And now you lecture others on causing offence….? 🙄
All advice on this thread has been spot on, given by professionals or those with heaps of experience under their belt – am sure Mark will have absolutely no problem with any of it. And am sure Laury, at the end of it all, is going to be wiser.
mg’s replies may be a little blunt at times, but at least his answers have substance. If I was seeking advice, I would rather that than wading through pages of empty waffle.
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Charlie
Think by now that most know that some are again trying to create or manipulate a thread for your own self interest.
Thankfully I am now not novice to not realise this and totally refuse to enter into any slagging match that degrades a forum or thread.
Claire,please accept my appologise for this genuine error of mixing Charlie and your name.Again not my posting,but ?
She has no reason to answer so aggressively. I’m sure there is a name for people who deliberately stir up things on forums, an IT one, not a rude one…probably best ignored I think!! Hang in there, this forum is normally full of really helpful people,
My postings are here for anyone to view and to which many will have viewed and can conclude as they wish.
I kindly request you now post your attentions towards those who may need your help or advice,Kind Regards
Jim
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Charlie
As stated
My postings are there for all to view and they can draw there own conclusions.
Again as I said, I am now not novice enough to bite so please try to catch another fish.
We know that you will now throw another line with bait but this fish is now a little older and wiser.
I have no problem with advising Laury to go to another forum as she was clearly upset on how she was treated on this one but as you say Mark and you are happy so who am I to argueAgain not my posting.
Guaranteed to make the hackles rise. (not with me so please save the time and effort)Laury may well now go away with a little more knowledge but more important is that she may go away at all but thats what most people do when treated yet again in such a way.
Sadly thats what others see and sadly thats why the forums dying.Regards
Jim -
WOW!! I’ve been away and yet I’m still in the firing line. 😕 This is happening too often me thinks.
Jim,
Would you correct your post please with the right name.Problem is Jim, you make a post which has “controversial” things in it..someone quotes you, or responds to you from that post and then you go back and edit/ delete your post. If we all did that, people would read this forum and related threads and question there sanity. It becomes disjointed
I am not saying what I would like to say because if I did all hell would break loose .
Glassman wrote:
Sadly thats what others see and sadly thats why the forums dying.
From someone who has been a member of the forum for less than 2 months I think that is insulting to Mark. It’s quality of posts that count ..not quantity.
JUST MY OPINION 🙂
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Laury, You have properly given up and gone elsewhere by now as this thread seems to have taken on a life of its own!
I need to clarify what I wrote I think: When our house was renovated we received quotes for each job separately eg kitchen, bathroom, replacing flooring, etc etc and paid for each item as it was completed.
Our builder did ask for 50% up front for the first job he carried out for us, he is not disreputable, just needed to pay for supplies and trust that we would pay up at the end!!
I also seem to have started world war 4 by stating, quite clearly I thought, that I thought MGs reply to you was aggressive, as you seem to agree. Both Hillybilly and Glassman seemed to think this referred to them and I apologise.
I am happy to give advice on this forum, and recommend it to people as I feel theres lots of valuable advice and help to be found here but am a little concerned that in this thread that advice seems to be drowning!
If you yo have any other questions regarding renovation, I am happy to answer them on a “been there done that” basis, but suggest you PM me! I am no expert, but sometimes its nice to moan to someone who has been through it already!!
Heather
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Hi Laury
Don’t know if you have received the answer you want, but depending on the area you live in I know of two excellent builders. One of them has his own Spanish Architect who does all the preparatory work, obtaining of licences etc. They itemise all work to be done and then they sign a contract of works so that both parties know exactly what they are paying for and the service they are getting. (Contracts are in English and Spanish)
They have an excellent reputation. They aren’t the cheapest but they do exactly what they say they are going to do and will not take on a job that needs to cut corners. They also, I believe, guarantee their work and get sign off by the ayuntamiento when the works are finished.
If you let me know where you are I can let you know if they cover this area and put you in touch with them
Best wishes
Vince
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Claire
I did post an appology for getting the your name wrong 8.20 last night?Not altered or deleted or reposted .its there to be seen and again Sorry.
Respect your opinion but the comments for reasons regarding all hell let loose are perhaps not quality are they I simply got your name wrong ? 😆Heather psk At no point did I think that any thing referred to me ?
No offence/No hassle/No problemRegards
Jim, -
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Hi Laury
Glad to see that you may – at last – be getting the constructive advice that will help. As I said before, give it some time (it’s only been a few days since your original post) and usually the right advice/help appears. Vince is knowledgable/experienced going by his posts in the past so a recommendation from him should be good. And Heather does have all the hands-on experience, having been through renovation in Spain, so hopefully you will now have all the help you need.
I know you disagree with me re. mg as you feel “all he does is shout “get a professional” which you said is what you were looking for in the first place. But going by your posts earlier on, you were only looking for a professional builder.
With respect, I believe mg’s point (put in his own ‘charming way’ 😉 ) was to get a professional in the form of a technical architect who can go out to tender, check quotes, draw up a contract, ensure that the spec is complied with, the correct licences obtained and oversee the works – as recommended also by Hillybilly.
It seems you are now interested to go down that route which hopefully will reduce the stress/risk of undertaking your project.Wish you good luck!
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Some may not like my comments, especially when they are to the point “ALWAYS SEEK PROFFESIONAL ADVICE”, no problem, I can take the flak and do not appologise for it.
But if that what if it takes to get people to listen and do the sensible thing, then so be it.
I do get fed up of the sob stories, especially when people have done things so save a few €.
ALWAYS SEEK PROFFESIONAL ADVICE, unles you are suitably qualified and conversant with the regulations and laws yourself. -
@mg wrote:
Some may not like my comments, especially when they are to the point “ALWAYS SEEK PROFFESIONAL ADVICE”, no problem, I can take the flak and do not appologise for it.
But if that what if it takes to get people to listen and do the sensible thing, then so be it.
I do get fed up of the sob stories, especially when people have done things so save a few €.
ALWAYS SEEK PROFFESIONAL ADVICE, unles you are suitably qualified and conversant with the regulations and laws yourself.Is a Madrid architect not professional then?
There is still no need to shout. I find it highly offensive. -
If you are using the services of a “professional”, then I am surprised that you need to seek out builders yourself?
You mention “I have had two companies out to give quotes but the written quotes are useless”. Isn’t that within the brief that the professional you employ operates?
You also mention “Most builders obtain the licences anyway from what I hear”. Why are you employing a professional and listening to hearsay?
It is mentioned “My problem at the moment is that I have 3 “quotes”. Recommended by local Spanish people including the agent I bought from.
These “quotes” are totally vague, open ended, no payment schedules or whatever and just saying it will be done to plan.
Well I am sorry but they weren’t good enough for us. Not “Professional” enough”
Your employed professional should be attending to these matters.
There is something here that doesn’t make sense.
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