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Hi All,
Despite feeling as though I’m only 20 years old in fact I’ll be retiring at the end of this year. I currently live in Switzerland at 1,030 masl in the Alps but want to move somewhere with better (warmer) weather, hence I’m looking at Spain.
Now the questions 🙂
Some of the estate agent websites are very poor, any recommendations? I’ve already signed up with Rightmove.co.uk, I’m looking around the Costa Blanca area.
How do asking prices for villas in the ~ 500k euro range compare to the prices being paid? I will be a cash buyer in early 2013 with a maximum price of ~ 550k euro or so.
The experience of members here will be invaluable.
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Hi,
I´m not an expert – but I´m watching part of the market since 2 years .
There are a lot of traps and funny things going on here just one example
:http://www.rightmove.co.uk/overseas-property/property-20297691.html
I had a look at this house and it was on offer about 6 month ago for 230.000 € 😉
Now I saw it again on rightmove and someone is now asking 385.000 € 😯
As a potential buyer of a holiday home I feel total insecure and I think I´m not the only one.
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@katy wrote:
Retiring at 20…are you a wind-up or is it that you are pushing the website…probably the latter 🙄
I feel as though I’m 20, in fact I’ll be 55 in October. Fit, fertile and free 😉
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The website has Simon’s DOB!!!
And if he was pushing his website, he has really chosen the wrong forum. I mean given the average age on this site most forumites have difficulty attaching an image to a post!!!! So pushing RF related software would be like trying to push Zimmer frame ads to a Under-14 football team 🙂
Simon
I think http://www.fotocasa.es is the way forward. Most ads are private individuals, forget about the agent.
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@katy wrote:
Retiring at 20…are you a wind-up or is it that you are pushing the website…probably the latter 🙄
Why are your accusations always way off beam?
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@jp1 wrote:
The website has Simon’s DOB!!!
And if he was pushing his website, he has really chosen the wrong forum. I mean given the average age on this site most forumites have difficulty attaching an image to a post!!!! So pushing RF related software would be like trying to push Zimmer frame ads to a Under-14 football team 🙂
Simon
I think http://www.fotocasa.es is the way forward. Most ads are private individuals, forget about the agent.
Yes, I thought fotocasa or even Kyero were the ones to watch in Spain. Do rightmove have a decent Spanish selection?
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@jp1 wrote:
I think http://www.fotocasa.es is the way forward. Most ads are private individuals, forget about the agent.
Thanks, just what I’m looking for.
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I sold my property through fotocasa, a young Spanish couple contacted me directly and we took it from there, which is basically agreeing a private sales contract. No agent required!
A 500k Euro villa is more high end that the average apartment so owners are probably more likely to use an agent. However, the agent will simply add the property to fotocasa.
Personally I thinks it’s an excellent site for getting a very good picture of the properties in an area and understanding the huge price differential between identical apartments/properties which of course allows you to really know where the current bottom of the market is.
Assuming villas are no different to apartments then there are many cases where you can see a price differential of around 50% between identical properties. So a price range 100k to 150k.
So assuming a 500k villa is a mid point It would not surprise me to see identical villas ranging from 400k to 600k.
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I would not buy for cash for reasons:
a) If you are sold an illegal property, you will not recover your money. If you have a mortgage than the Bank has to take the hit.
b) If Spain leaves the € & devalues.. The new currency will be much weaker and as such your mortgage will be reduced against other stronger currencies.
c) Death duties will be negated to the extent of your mortgage.
e) Cash will always be King, today & in the near future.Sorry, I am having problem in posting. The curser is not moving or seams to have one two many Tintos
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@Simon Brown wrote:
Also I’m a cash buyer which could / should help.
Ahhh the human psychology and myths spouted by agents to turn the hand of an impressionable seller
Trust me when I am selling, I don’t care where the money is coming from!!
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@DBMarcos99 wrote:
@katy wrote:
Retiring at 20…are you a wind-up or is it that you are pushing the website…probably the latter 🙄
Why are your accusations always way off beam?
Ok so I speed read…guilty. My posts are not always “off beam” if you check. Anyway, how would you know, unless you have been around the block. 😆 Still think he came on to push his website.
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We too are thinking of buying this year. We will rent first, see if we like it. By then the politicians / bankers will have a better idea as to the future of the euro – hopefully. We are holding a strong currency, Canadian $, and we will have to get a substantial discount off current prices before we take the plunge. At some stage in the future we will have to resell so we have to get a realistic purchase price now.
With your budget you should be able to afford a different bedroom for each day of the week! -
@jp1 wrote:
@Simon Brown wrote:
Also I’m a cash buyer which could / should help.
Ahhh the human psychology and myths spouted by agents to turn the hand of an impressionable seller
Trust me when I am selling, I don’t care where the money is coming from!!
It’s positive thing though since you don’t have to take in consideration that the bank will pull out of the deal before everything is settled.
But I agree with your point though. 😀
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Simon, try Idealista.es ……… you’ll end up using an agent anyway once you find how frustrating it is dealing with vendors direct – the vendors that try and sell privately are not usually motivated or realistic……………
welcome to Spain, it’s great here despite what the moaning minnies say!!!!!!!!!!!!! illegal properties??? well, i guess you’d use a lawyer, no?? and not one recomended to you by the local barman or freeelance estate agent??? 😆 😆
get the suntan lotion and beach towel and get down to the costa blanca !!!!!!!!!! and anyway at 55 who cares about the Euro, Spanish unemployment, recession etc……… if you have a few bob there is no point in hanging about!!!!!!!!!
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@UBEDA wrote:
Simon, try Idealista.es ……… you’ll end up using an agent anyway once you find how frustrating it is dealing with vendors direct – the vendors that try and sell privately are not usually motivated or realistic……………
welcome to Spain, it’s great here despite what the moaning minnies say!!!!!!!!!!!!! illegal properties??? well, i guess you’d use a lawyer, no?? and not one recomended to you by the local barman or freeelance estate agent??? 😆 😆
get the suntan lotion and beach towel and get down to the costa blanca !!!!!!!!!! and anyway at 55 who cares about the Euro, Spanish unemployment, recession etc……… if you have a few bob there is no point in hanging about!!!!!!!!!
Thanks, and I do agree with your comments. I have good lawyers and surveyors available, I am not worried in the least about a house losing value as this will be the last time I move (England – Germany – Belgium – Switzerland – Spain). Also I have no relatives at all, so any estate would be left to medical research or similar. And I also have a friend who is *very* clued up when it comes to buying property, he’s just bought in Calpe.
I’m not one for beaches too much, more the general climate and walking inland.
And I’m not trying to ‘peddle’ my website, I doubt there are few here who know what my website’s about 🙂 and for those who do – I’m also HB9DRV.
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@jp1 wrote:
@Simon Brown wrote:
Also I’m a cash buyer which could / should help.
Ahhh the human psychology and myths spouted by agents to turn the hand of an impressionable seller
Trust me when I am selling, I don’t care where the money is coming from!!
There are people who need to sell very fast; but not needing a mortgage and having lawyers & surveyors ready I can proceed very fast.
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@Mexberry wrote:
We too are thinking of buying this year. We will rent first, see if we like it. By then the politicians / bankers will have a better idea as to the future of the euro – hopefully. We are holding a strong currency, Canadian $, and we will have to get a substantial discount off current prices before we take the plunge. At some stage in the future we will have to resell so we have to get a realistic purchase price now.
With your budget you should be able to afford a different bedroom for each day of the week!Re: currency – I’m roughy 50 : 50 GBP and Swiss Francs (where I live now).
As for the future of the Euro – my money is on the eurozone staying with Spain a member.
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@Simon Brown wrote:
@Mexberry wrote:
We too are thinking of buying this year. We will rent first, see if we like it. By then the politicians / bankers will have a better idea as to the future of the euro – hopefully. We are holding a strong currency, Canadian $, and we will have to get a substantial discount off current prices before we take the plunge. At some stage in the future we will have to resell so we have to get a realistic purchase price now.
With your budget you should be able to afford a different bedroom for each day of the week!Re: currency – I’m roughy 50 : 50 GBP and Swiss Francs (where I live now).
As for the future of the Euro – my money is on the eurozone staying with Spain a member.
I’m no so certain -already Greece is threatening to pull out in 3 months. And you know what? I think “Merkozy” may just be prepared to see them off, without realising it will set in motion a domino effect.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2012/jan/03/greece-warns-over-euro-exit?CMP=twt_gu
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@katy wrote:
@DBMarcos99 wrote:
@katy wrote:
Retiring at 20…are you a wind-up or is it that you are pushing the website…probably the latter 🙄
Why are your accusations always way off beam?
Ok so I speed read…guilty. My posts are not always “off beam” if you check. Anyway, how would you know, unless you have been around the block. 😆 Still think he came on to push his website.
Yes he obviously came on a Spanish property forum to push his website about software for radios 🙄
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@Simon Brown wrote:
Thanks, and I do agree with your comments. I have good lawyers and surveyors available, I am not worried in the least about a house losing value as this will be the last time I move (England – Germany – Belgium – Switzerland – Spain). Also I have no relatives at all, so any estate would be left to medical research or similar. And I also have a friend who is *very* clued up when it comes to buying property, he’s just bought in Calpe.
I’m not one for beaches too much, more the general climate and walking inland.
And I’m not trying to ‘peddle’ my website, I doubt there are few here who know what my website’s about 🙂 and for those who do – I’m also HB9DRV.
Why don’t you take the opportunity to spend a couple of years travelling around Spain in order to get a feel for the place and the areas you like? If you’re not too bothered about beaches then you will save a lot of money by moving inland, but you may find you prefer somewhere like the Picos de Europa and the northern coast (if you don’t mind the rain) or the Alpujarras for example. By not being “tied” to the coast you have many more options available to you.
If you don’t fancy doing that then you still should spend at least 6 months renting in an area before buying anyway, especially if you plan to move there permanently. Many places that appear great to begin with can soon reveal previously hidden problems – such as becoming a ghost town during winter and flooding during Spring. Even if you do find a bargain now, the purchase costs will be 10% and if you find you don’t like it then it may take you a long time to sell it.
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@Simon Brown wrote:
Some of the estate agent websites are very poor, any recommendations? I’ve already signed up with Rightmove.co.uk, I’m looking around the Costa Blanca area.
.Why only Costa Blanca? Does it include Castellon and Valencia or only Alicante?
Do you want areas with lots of English speakers or any nation would do?
Why only Spain? South of Italy, Malta, Cyprus, Crete all have warm climates.
Do you like skiing? If yes, consider Aragon, Girona or Lleida. If you like sking as much as the Sun then around Granada would be OK.
Spain is a huge country with many, many offerings.
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@flosmichael wrote:
@Simon Brown wrote:
Some of the estate agent websites are very poor, any recommendations? I’ve already signed up with Rightmove.co.uk, I’m looking around the Costa Blanca area.
.Why only Costa Blanca? Does it include Castellon and Valencia or only Alicante?
Do you want areas with lots of English speakers or any nation would do?
Why only Spain? South of Italy, Malta, Cyprus, Crete all have warm climates.
Do you like skiing? If yes, consider Aragon, Girona or Lleida. If you like sking as much as the Sun then around Granada would be OK.
Spain is a huge country with many, many offerings.
Actually anywhere on the south / east coast. I was brought up near the sea on the Isle of Man, always feel a bit odd being stuck inland.
I speak French, German, English and understand some American 🙂 It’s Spain because of the location, the only other area I’m considering is Provence but Spain is my preference. I live in a ski resort but no longer ski, FWIW look at this for my current weather: http://www.laax.com/de/skigebiet/wetter-pistenbericht/webcams/ it’s warm with heavy snow.
And I just do *not* care about the euro / GBP exchange rate, a house is for nesting. Anyone trying to make a killing out of property gets what they deserve.
Someone else mentioned internet – this is an essential consideration, at least ADSL will do.
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Mortgage hedging
Hello;
While I do not claim to have expert knowledge how a euro break-up would unfold (better to read
Willem Buiters articles), maybe one should consider the origin of the bank that holds the mortgage
as well as the currency?
If the weak countries were to leave the euro the result might be an increase in the value of the euro
versus most other currencies.
If the mortgage is held in a spanish bank then it might be converted to “new psetas”, but if held in an
english or german bank then the debt would still be in euros ?
In Hungary I believe that eventually the mortgages taken out in CHF etc were converted to HUF
but in this case the mortgage holders were local entities to austrian banks etc.
In case you have a mortgage with an “on-shore” bank maybe it would be better to hedge the euro exposure with derivatives ? -
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@mr bean wrote:
Mortgage hedging
Hello;
While I do not claim to have expert knowledge how a euro break-up would unfold (better to read
Willem Buiters articles), maybe one should consider the origin of the bank that holds the mortgage
as well as the currency?
If the weak countries were to leave the euro the result might be an increase in the value of the euro
versus most other currencies.
If the mortgage is held in a spanish bank then it might be converted to “new psetas”, but if held in an
english or german bank then the debt would still be in euros ?
In Hungary I believe that eventually the mortgages taken out in CHF etc were converted to HUF
but in this case the mortgage holders were local entities to austrian banks etc.
In case you have a mortgage with an “on-shore” bank maybe it would be better to hedge the euro exposure with derivatives ?AFAIK all Spanish mortgages are registered with Spanish banks. Even if the bank “holding” the mortgage has a name like “Barclays”, “Halifax” or “Deutsche Bank” it is in fact still a Spanish bank that happens to be owned by a foreign bank, so if Spain left the euro the mortgages with those banks would also be converted to the new currency.
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@Chopera wrote:
@mr bean wrote:
Mortgage hedging
Hello;
While I do not claim to have expert knowledge how a euro break-up would unfold (better to read
Willem Buiters articles), maybe one should consider the origin of the bank that holds the mortgage
as well as the currency?
If the weak countries were to leave the euro the result might be an increase in the value of the euro
versus most other currencies.
If the mortgage is held in a spanish bank then it might be converted to “new psetas”, but if held in an
english or german bank then the debt would still be in euros ?
In Hungary I believe that eventually the mortgages taken out in CHF etc were converted to HUF
but in this case the mortgage holders were local entities to austrian banks etc.
In case you have a mortgage with an “on-shore” bank maybe it would be better to hedge the euro exposure with derivatives ?AFAIK all Spanish mortgages are registered with Spanish banks. Even if the bank “holding” the mortgage has a name like “Barclays”, “Halifax” or “Deutsche Bank” it is in fact still a Spanish bank that happens to be owned by a foreign bank, so if Spain left the euro the mortgages with those banks would also be converted to the new currency.
Are you totally sure about the converting part? The interest should be much higher on goverment bonds and the likes if that is the case.
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@brianc_li wrote:
Anybody wanting to buy right now should only do so if they are offered an amazing deal on a property they cannot resist.
Even without the very real risk of the euro breaking up, which would mean a 30%+ devaluation overnight, prices look set to fall for at least the next year, probably longer.
Very true – I’m sitting on a pile of cash until Jan. 2013.
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@Ardun wrote:
@Chopera wrote:
@mr bean wrote:
Mortgage hedging
Hello;
While I do not claim to have expert knowledge how a euro break-up would unfold (better to read
Willem Buiters articles), maybe one should consider the origin of the bank that holds the mortgage
as well as the currency?
If the weak countries were to leave the euro the result might be an increase in the value of the euro
versus most other currencies.
If the mortgage is held in a spanish bank then it might be converted to “new psetas”, but if held in an
english or german bank then the debt would still be in euros ?
In Hungary I believe that eventually the mortgages taken out in CHF etc were converted to HUF
but in this case the mortgage holders were local entities to austrian banks etc.
In case you have a mortgage with an “on-shore” bank maybe it would be better to hedge the euro exposure with derivatives ?AFAIK all Spanish mortgages are registered with Spanish banks. Even if the bank “holding” the mortgage has a name like “Barclays”, “Halifax” or “Deutsche Bank” it is in fact still a Spanish bank that happens to be owned by a foreign bank, so if Spain left the euro the mortgages with those banks would also be converted to the new currency.
Are you totally sure about the converting part? The interest should be much higher on goverment bonds and the likes if that is the case.
I’m no expert but surely the whole point of a country like Spain leaving the euro would be to devalue debt (both public and private) by converting it into the new currency, otherwise there’s no point. That is, if Spain left the euro and all Spanish mortgage debt remained in euros then virtually all Spanish mortgages would become sub-prime overnight – people simply wouldn’t be able to repay them, the Spanish banks would collapse, there’d be a huge bailout and Spain would be back to square one with a huge public debt, leading to yet more devaluation, and so on. A classic debt spiral.
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@Chopera wrote:
I’m no expert but surely the whole point of a country like Spain leaving the euro would be to devalue debt (both public and private) by converting it into the new currency, otherwise there’s no point. That is, if Spain left the euro and all Spanish mortgage debt remained in euros then virtually all Spanish mortgages would become sub-prime overnight – people simply wouldn’t be able to repay them, the Spanish banks would collapse, there’d be a huge bailout and Spain would be back to square one with a huge public debt, leading to yet more devaluation, and so on. A classic debt spiral.
I think they would do what Iceland did and just by convert all loans. Iceland broke all sort of treaties but who gives a crap when you have been swindled by big bankers. Iceland had no obligations than to it’s own population.
They got threatened by IMF and the rest of the world but now people are lendning to them again and they are way ahead of Ireland, Greece and the rest of the PIGS.
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@Simon Brown wrote:
Some of the estate agent websites are very poor, any recommendations? I’ve already signed up with Rightmove.co.uk, I’m looking around the Costa Blanca area.
How do asking prices for villas in the ~ 500k euro range compare to the prices being paid? I will be a cash buyer in early 2013 with a maximum price of ~ 550k euro or so.
The experience of members here will be invaluable.
Why not move to the place you want to live in and rent there for a year. That way you get to know the area a lot better, you get an idea of which agents you can relate with better and I would bet, depending on what you rent of course, that the style of property in which you are interested will have fallen by a greater amount than that you pay in rent.
I looked at the website, fotocasa.es, and at Medina Sidonia in particular. The prices are very attractive, the properties that I would be interested in are about half the price they were going for when I left. But I think they will fall further. There was never any reason for them to be so high except speculation from Northern Europeans. I imagine they are trying to sell up now but still expecting to get what they think is a reasonable price (50%). I reckon that when prices halve again a significant number will give up the fight and sell for whatever they can get.
As for the recovery in Spain. What? When? How? I can imagine another property boom in 15 years when all this has been forgotten but I think they would have to demolish a lot of existing property before then.
best of luck, I enjoyed my time in Spain.
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The property boom was fuelled by the banks shovelling out cash at low interest rates. Property won’t come back to the prior unrealistic levels unless the banks get back to their bad ways. Now we have the ECB shovelling out low cost 3 year loans to the banks so they can buy bonds from Italy and Spain. The ponzi scheme continues!!
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@mark wrote:
The supply of paper money is expanding fast. It’s only a matter of time before it unleashes high inflation. Surely that will then make property a better store of wealth than Government I.O.Us?
I wish it were not so.
Yes this is very true. But according to the Merkel and Co The PIGS should concentrate on making wages lower etc. That will not raise prices. If they start pumping out money it will destroy other parts of the eurozone though.
In my opinion this will not be enough though and eventually if they want to keep the current eurozone they will need to pump out money.
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@mark wrote:
The supply of paper money is expanding fast. It’s only a matter of time before it unleashes high inflation. Surely that will then make property a better store of wealth than Government I.O.Us?
I wish it were not so.
High inflation is and will be in:
– food prices
– petrol prices
– cloth prices
– heating prices
– electricity prices
– insurance prices
This eats all the disposable income that fortunate people might still have. There is no money to engage in buying houses.
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@flosmichael wrote:
@mark wrote:
The supply of paper money is expanding fast. It’s only a matter of time before it unleashes high inflation. Surely that will then make property a better store of wealth than Government I.O.Us?
I wish it were not so.
High inflation is and will be in:
– food prices
– petrol prices
– cloth prices
– heating prices
– electricity prices
– insurance prices
This eats all the disposable income that fortunate people might still have. There is no money to engage in buying houses.
Why not? If the additional money ever makes it as far as the general public then the effect will be to inflate the value of everything and deflate the value of debt. This would be the perfect scenario for house price inflation if it wasn’t for the fact that many people are too scared about the economy to take on large debts right now.
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@Chopera wrote:
@flosmichael wrote:
@mark wrote:
The supply of paper money is expanding fast. It’s only a matter of time before it unleashes high inflation. Surely that will then make property a better store of wealth than Government I.O.Us?
I wish it were not so.
High inflation is and will be in:
– food prices
– petrol prices
– cloth prices
– heating prices
– electricity prices
– insurance prices
This eats all the disposable income that fortunate people might still have. There is no money to engage in buying houses.
Why not? If the additional money ever makes it as far as the general public then the effect will be to inflate the value of everything and deflate the value of debt. This would be the perfect scenario for house price inflation if it wasn’t for the fact that many people are too scared about the economy to take on large debts right now.
What are you are saying makes perfect sense in an usual period of high inflation, when the prices and salaries grow by similar percentages.
Unfortunately now the price inflation is about 10 times more than the salary rises and people (at least 99% of them) are becoming poorer and more percentage of the income is directed towards paying for survival needs (food, clothes, utilities).
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@flosmichael wrote:
@mark wrote:
The supply of paper money is expanding fast. It’s only a matter of time before it unleashes high inflation. Surely that will then make property a better store of wealth than Government I.O.Us?
I wish it were not so.
High inflation is and will be in:
– food prices
– petrol prices
– cloth prices
– heating prices
– electricity prices
– insurance prices
This eats all the disposable income that fortunate people might still have. There is no money to engage in buying houses.
The banks also are scared shitless of lending out money.
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@flosmichael wrote:
…
What are you are saying makes perfect sense in an usual period of high inflation, when the prices and salaries grow by similar percentages.Unfortunately now the price inflation is about 10 times more than the salary rises and people (at least 99% of them) are becoming poorer and more percentage of the income is directed towards paying for survival needs (food, clothes, utilities).
I think Mark was commenting on what might happen if all this paper money ever found itself in general circulation. I agree that right now the inflation that the UK and (surprisingly) Spain is getting has nothing to do with extra money in circulation because there isn’t any at the moment. It’s what the BoE calls “external factors” but the effect is, as you say, that people have less money available for taking on debt or buying non-essentials.
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@Chopera wrote:
@flosmichael wrote:
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What are you are saying makes perfect sense in an usual period of high inflation, when the prices and salaries grow by similar percentages.Unfortunately now the price inflation is about 10 times more than the salary rises and people (at least 99% of them) are becoming poorer and more percentage of the income is directed towards paying for survival needs (food, clothes, utilities).
I think Mark was commenting on what might happen if all this paper money ever found itself in general circulation. I agree that right now the inflation that the UK and (surprisingly) Spain is getting has nothing to do with extra money in circulation because there isn’t any at the moment. It’s what the BoE calls “external factors” but the effect is, as you say, that people have less money available for taking on debt or buying non-essentials.
The paper money will not find itself in general circulation in the near future. there are so many debt holes to be covered before the money becomes excesive.
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