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Some months ago I bought a flat at a price I considered quite good for the prices we have seem in these years.
Four months later I have seem the same property for 10.000 euros less. That makes 6% less that the price I paid for it in less than 4 months and if unemployment continues to rise in Spain we can see pretty good bargains in the market.
For a example the flat I am talking about. Here is the link to the advise:
150.000 euros for a 110 m2 flat with 4 bedrooms, private gardems and a swimming pool.
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“but it’s Lorca”
Don’t think you really know Lorca at all Fuengi otherwise you would never make a comment like that.
Some of the most magnificent private properties I have ever seen in Spain are there. And lots of them.
From the traditional to the ultra ultra modern.
A great deal of money has been spent, and still is being spent ,on upgrading the infractructure and IMHO it is becoming a stunning city.Visit some time and take a walk around and make sure visit the millionaires area by the park.
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POSTED
“Sorry, this is called catching a falling knife.”
Oh how I dislike those that sit on fences and then say I could have told you so. 👿
Would love to be more specific but feel it would go straight into the “Take it outside thread then Charlie would tell me off 😉Good on ya Peter and as you say .
Its within budget so bloody well enjoy it bud.
You have clearly done your homework and good luck to you.Just Frank 8)
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@Just Frank wrote:
“Sorry, this is called catching a falling knife.”
Oh how I dislike those that sit on fences and then say I could have told you so. 👿
OK, I shall buy a Spanish house now if you promise you give me the difference between the October 2008 price and October 2009 price.
Do we have a deal?
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Hi Flosmicheal 🙂 DEAL.
Get the solicitor to draw up an agreement and I agree.
Right we both put 50,000 Euros in an account that cant be touched untill October 2009
We need 2 forum members to act as referees
CONDITION.
We need the choice of area/price paid and you give me the balance you make?
How is it going to be funded.The bottom line is those that sit on fences always do and never decide on anything.
Re-phrased those that sit on fences and choose to look down on others when they make a call never put up and always miss the boat.
Next you will be telling us just when the market will bottom out..
O.K You made the call I accept so lets see the dosh.Just Frank 8)
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@Just Frank wrote:
Hi Flosmicheal 🙂 DEAL.
Get the solicitor to draw up an agreement and I agree.
Right we both put 50,000 Euros in an account that cant be touched untill October 2009
We need 2 forum members to act as referees
CONDITION.
We need the choice of area/price paid and you give me the balance you make?
How is it going to be funded.You did not understand what I wrote and I do not have time to explain again.
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Just Frank
yeh’, let’s all rush out now and buy property, and then watch it lose value over the next few months/years……..Doh!
if people are in it for the long term, or don’t care about the loss in value for whatever reason then good luck to them. For those who want to buy at the best price, then sitting on the fence is most probably giving the best view for quite a while yet.
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Hi Flosmicheal 😀
I thought you posted.OK, I shall buy a Spanish house now if you promise you give me the difference between the October 2008 price and October 2009 price.
DO WE HAVE A DEAL.I SAID YEP. Whats there to explain ? Back on the fence with you. 😆
Blah,Blah,Blah.Hi Goodstich 44 🙂 You Posted.
yeh’, let’s all rush out now and buy property, and then watch it lose value over the next few months/years……..Doh!Well the deal is not on with you me ole mucker as you would want to choose the property and sure enough I would loose the bet. 😉
Just Frank 8)
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@goodstich44 wrote:
Just Frank
yeh’, let’s all rush out now and buy property, and then watch it lose value over the next few months/years……..Doh!
if people are in it for the long term, or don’t care about the loss in value for whatever reason then good luck to them. For those who want to buy at the best price, then sitting on the fence is most probably giving the best view for quite a while yet.
The main problem here is there is an average price level that is likely to fall. By what extent who knows?.
That said there will be many ‘bargains’ dotted around that may be below that average price level for whatever reason.
In addition to that even if the average level falls there will be particular type of properties that are limited in numbers that appear infrequently and hence ‘general market price’ movements are largely irrelevant.
A purchaser of a property does not buy the ‘general market’, even in poor markets, property developers or investors exist, they are just more savvy than your average Joe who would buy off plan and then try a flip prior to completion (assuming they were capable of completition :wink:)
There is no ‘one general property’ at ‘one general price’ and ‘one general strategy’.
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Mary Hinge
I totally agree.
There are deals and no one fits all that prices will rise,fall or stay stable.
Catching the deal is another matter and perhaps need people on the ground and the money to pounce.
Its times like this that many make money maybe today/tomorrow or next year.
Generally prices will fall but as they have such a varied valuation or starting point then falls will be difficult to really calculate.
The bottom line is as long as your buying for the right reasons and you can afford payments in good area or an area thats infrastructue is improving then why not.
Could be a simple matter of a habitation licence pending on a technical basis.
Any way whats right for one may not be right for anotherJust Frank 8)
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@Just Frank wrote:
Hi Flosmicheal 😀
I thought you posted.OK, I shall buy a Spanish house now if you promise you give me the difference between the October 2008 price and October 2009 price.
DO WE HAVE A DEAL.I SAID YEP. Whats there to explain ? Back on the fence with you. 😆
Blah,Blah,Blah.And you came out with the 50K Euros. I did not know you were a real punter. 😆
Anyway, the deal would be that you send me 50K Euros,
I put my 75K that I want to actually pay for a property. If the property is still 125K in one year, I send you back your 50K Euros.If it is falling to 75K Euros then you do not see any money back. As far as you think that property in Spain does not fall, than you take the risk and you might prove to the forum members you are a guy who can foresee thye future.
If you agree with the deal, I shall you tell you where to deposit the money.
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Flosmicheal
Youposted
And you came out with the 50K Euros. I did not know you were a real punter. 😆Typical fence sitter : 😀
Always quick enough to tell everyone else how not to do something.
When called outside they always bottle. 😕Go play with the Monopoly money. 😉
If you change yer mind and are SOooooo sure that the price will be lower then give me the nod, take my 50/50 risk and deal the dice.
Game over and back to topic
Kind Regards to you 😀
Just Dan 8)
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@Just Frank wrote:
Go play with the Monopoly money. 😉
If you change yer mind and are SOooooo sure that the price will be lower then give me the nod, take my 50/50 risk and deal the dice.
Game over and back to topic
Kind Regards to you 😀
Just Dan 8)
I told you about the deal, do you want to write in Spanish so you understand better?
Anybody and his dog knows Spanish property prices are going to get hammered
in 2009 (simple supply and demand logic). If you do not know this, start doing your homework before posting on public forums.Bye, bye! It is time to stop this discussion now.
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@Melosine wrote:
“but it’s Lorca”
Don’t think you really know Lorca at all Fuengi otherwise you would never make a comment like that.
Some of the most magnificent private properties I have ever seen in Spain are there. And lots of them.
From the traditional to the ultra ultra modern.
A great deal of money has been spent, and still is being spent ,on upgrading the infractructure and IMHO it is becoming a stunning city.Visit some time and take a walk around and make sure visit the millionaires area by the park.
I have been there. It’s nice enough. But that does not change the prices per m2.
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@peterparra wrote:
For investment this property is a good place to put money cause a University will be finished next year. You can get around 200 euros per room so thats makes about 800 euros month.
I also think prices in Lorca would be around 1000 euros per m2 in the following months.
that seems like quite a high rent. Can I ask where did you get the figures? So what is that? after paying tax and community thats more or less a rental yield of 6%/6.5%?
Fuengi
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Hi Flosmicheal.
“You posted”
Anybody and his dog knows Spanish property prices are going to get hammered
in 2009 (simple supply and demand logic). If you do not know this, start doing your homework before posting on public forums.THEN TAKE UP MY OFFER THEN. 😉 ( Why insult)
When your a player in the Spanish Property market then you to may pass on the avantage of experience.
Goodstich 44.
As always if its the same c–p then dont read its and no excuse to be rude.
I may not agree with some of your postings but I have grown up not to respond.There are many that would like this thread to continue and lets not go down the insult route as you know its not my way of admitting someone is well out of there depth.
I will take the insult,not ask for an apology and totally refuse to enter into anything that would bring the editor to condemn the thread.
Some just may have seen that the threads are here but everyones posting should not be taken to seriously and in particular actual statements like trying to predict the future market for every area in Spain with a one fits all statement.
To many variables I am afraid as while property prices may fall there are and will be some cracking deals then as there are now.Lets give it up guys,dont get to serious have hand yer say and lets get back to topic.
Charlie. Help me ❗
There not being very nice to me. 😉Just Frank 8)
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Charlie 😯
Thought you were my Besty Mate. 😀
Well the forums without me seem SOOoooooo boring somehow or at least thats what I am told by a few.
Some other things by some but what the hell.
😉
Trouble is some cant see a wined up if it smacked them in the gob.
The bet I mean as I was serious about the other points 😈Just Frank 8)
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@Just Frank wrote:
Lets give it up guys,dont get to seroius have hand yer say and lets get back to topic.
Let’s give up guy means let’s give the last the last word to the all-mighty Just Frank (who comes from time to time here to teach us some valuable lessons).:roll:
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Flosmicheal
Now thats really silly 🙂
Everyone knows Just Frank only comes in to teach when its clear that someone is WAaaaay out of their depth. 😉
Now shall we get back to the thread.
Right. How far do you think that prices will fall 😯
1 Percentage and in what area in Spain
Please give reasons that that everyman and his dog can understand2 Do you think that a dramatic fall in the value of the Euro may effect forcasts.
3 Do you think that a fall in Euro interests rates to say 2% would make difference to the market.
4 Do you feel that many U.K residence are totally pi–sed off here and still wish to relocate in say Spain but the exchange rate is causing them problems.
5 What do you think of a property whoes possible poor price is reflected in the fact that it has no habitation licence
When and if licences get issued do you feel that these properties will fall in value.Just Frank 8)
Charlie 😉
Dont worry about me.I am O.K Honest 😀
Dont you worry yourself or I will get annoyed. -
Frank wrote
” What do you think of a property whoes possible poor price is reflected in the fact that it has no habitation licence
When and if licences get issued do you feel that these properties will fall in value.……..of course Frank, properties always plummet when they get an LFO. ….However if it is deemed illegal, then demolished, no doubt it will shoot up in value!
for gawd sake Frank, what are you on?
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that seems like quite a high rent. Can I ask where did you get the figures? So what is that? after paying tax and community thats more or less a rental yield of 6%/6.5%?
When the University is finished and working in 1 or 2 years ahead rooms will be needed by students, teachers and public personal so these properties are quite good for renting.
If we put a clean room in a high quality development I think is quite reasonable to ask between 150-200 euros month for room (these properties have 4 rooms).
So these properties with prices from 150.000 and going down even more are quite interesting. I also know people who bought in these developments at prices quite higher last year and now they are trying to sell at about 220.000 euros.
But is quite clear that if the situation continues like this or even worse we can start to think properties aproaching 100.000 euros in this city.
Next week a very large mall will open its doors in Lorca (Centro Comercial La Almerana). Lets see what the crisis makes to this event!!
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Throught friends that I have in Vitoria (Alava) in the north of Spain I have know today that hight quality firms like Mercedes, Michellin and Trelleborg are firing people and stopping production.
If the companies that are supposed to save the property development driven economy of Spain are also struggling to survice that really scared everyone and also this affect of course the spanish property market.
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Hi Peter
The effects of what you are saying is somewhat being reflected in the U.K
Many are loosing their homes/developers are going bankrupt and as you have read even the banks that lend have big problems
Trying to find value in anything from property to share prices are going to be difficult for long while until the credit crisis has had time to resolve itself.
As in good times,many make money in bad times a few make lots of money by simply being cash rich at the right time.
The advice I had many years ago is that property can be a great asset but if wont pay the bills if the need arise.
The same as with the massive losses on the stock market of late will only become tangible if cashed in now.
Same as property and some will simply have to give up previous gains to sell and those that were on the roundabout at the wrong time with recent purchased property will just have to ride it out or loose.
Not the first time and probably not the last but the worst thing to do is panic in either case.Just Frank 8)
Just Frank 8)
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@Just Frank wrote:
Right. How far do you think that prices will fall 😯
1 Percentage and in what area in Spain
I agree with what Mark writes in Property Buff, a 23% fall in price should do it. Read his article for reasons/forecasts.
Much more for shaddy properties or properties in bad areas.
I wish I had time to answer the rest of your questions but I have a busy week.
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From what I´ve been reading the general consensus is that the market still has a bit to fall. The question is, as always, how much?
The 23% mentioned in Mark´s article, if it came to pass, would probably only show as 10-15% in terms of asking prices. Say small drops of 5% for the next couple of years coupled with inflation.
I´ll readily admit to being a bystander (at present that is, the lower prices now have me looking). I can´t be the only one who is now looking again at what I previously believed to be an over priced market.
In my case I´m planning to buy, almost certainly within the next year. I´ll just keep my eye on the market. In the current climate I´m going to avoid anything off plan. When the right property, in the right place and at the right price comes along, as I´m sure it will, I´ll jump at it.
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I think the prices will take a while to drop. Just looking at the websites, reality hasn’t sunk in. I know now is different from 1995 but things were dire then and still some were asking stupid prices. The bargains came in drips, usually distress sales (not the same as the ones advertised on those present websites). We viewed one where the owners were very old and had returned to the UK. another where the Husband had a stroke and in a wheelchair with absolutely no help from anywhere. One was an inheritance. All were fantastic bargains even though they weren’t what we were looking to buy. Otherwise lots of silly (high) prices.
The low exchange rate is also compounding value for money. Who would buy at today’s rate 😯
You have made a good start though by looking at re-sales. Re-sales don’t look as good as a computer mock-up with “promised” quality and facilities and the furniture may be a bit tired, but, you would be buying all new for an off-plan anyway. Can do the same for a re-sale.
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Hi Flosmicheal
Yep read that so you dont have actual opinions of you own then.?
Also read that its almost impossible to be able to calculate as there are no actual statistic figures from where he or anyone can start from so do I assume you will agree with that as well then.
Mostly its clear that figures are taken from over inflated prices set by developers in many areas.
I know of one development where prices were 180,000 Euros that can be bought today for 110,00 Euros but the development next door the prices are holding well as the first was sheer crap and the other well spect and priced in the first place.
Some properties may indeed be worthless,however depending on many factors prices may be effected less as they were in part not over inflated in the first place.good rental returns etc
Perhaps I am wrong that whatever is predicted is just that and based on whats read in a newspaper or someones personal view however is usually inside a small window.
Plenty of different forcasts around the world at the moment and seem to change everyday
At the end of the day the ole dead cat bouncing statements with no actual reasons is something I tend to leave to those that think they know all.
Facts is that as in any country including Spain the property prices will end up at the figure the buyer and seller agree on until then its very difficult to say if todays buyer will be a winner or a looser over time.Just Frank 8)
Hopefully Goodstich44 will now participate with his own views.
Hopefully Katy will do the same if they are that interested in this particular thread. -
@Just Frank wrote:
so you dont have actual opinions of you own then.?
.I have lots of opinions of my own but I do not have time to talk too much about spanish property prices as they are not my main concern this month.
I have cash and I might spend them for a Spanish property in 2009-2010 if I find a suitable property. This property might be of the type that Katy describes, i.e. a very misfortunate situation for an unlucky person/couple who would be in dire need for cash.
If prices do not fall to my budget, I won’t buy, it is that simple.
Sorry, I forgot. The Pound is today at 1.18 Euros. If it stays this way or if it goes lower, I shall never buy property in Europe, I prefer to buy something in UK with the
junky Pounds. -
Hi Flosmicheal
Seems to me that the motives may be to try to talk down prices in a vain attempt to get them to meet what you are prepared to pay then.
The property markets and the stock markets are full of this at the moment.
As has been pointed out that in difficult times there are those that do loose and those that can make gains if they are in the right place at the right time.
The problem is being there.
Trust me there will be many in front of you ready for such bargains and you would be fortunate to get a look in without someone in the know and on the ground.
If you think the market is waiting for Flosmicheal with his cash then you could be in for a long wait
Whichever I wish you well in pursuit of the bargain you are after.
Personally as I have mentioned they just could be there now albeit very difficult to find.
As some say the rule in investment is to buy when no one else wants it.
One problem as I see it is that the currency situation at the moment alone would make buying very difficult at the moment anyway however the Brits are not the only buyers.Just Frank 8)
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@Just Frank wrote:
Hi Flosmicheal
Seems to me that the motives may be to try to talk down prices in a vain attempt to get them to meet what you are prepared to pay then.You have a wonderful logic. 🙄 Congratulations. 😀
Keep up the good work.
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@Mary Hinge wrote:
Exactly, the exchange rate.
Prices have to fall to keep the Brits at level parity. Its becoming a vicious circle. 20% off property is not even worth a headline for the average UK buyer.
Make it 30% off as of today, at 1.15 official rate (probably parity at exchange office).
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flosmichael
i think your closer. With a combination of poor exchange rate, overbuilds, corruption and poor regulation/justice now bought out in the open, it’s hard to see where prices will bottom out?
According to the news yesterday, many would sell up and come back to UK, but they can’t sell without virtually giving their property away.
I’m sure it will come good again at some stage, the end of the recession will give a boost no doubt, but if Spain continues to bury it’s head in the sand, with regards to the above, then who knows how long a real recovery could be?
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This is my opinion based on the wife and I having a look at property on the Costa Blanca a few weeks ago. In the main the sellers were brits, we did speak to two agents, one brit the other German.
1) The British sellers are in total denial, they want top dollar and further expect you to buy their furniture at near to new prices. They haven’t got a clue what it’s like in the real world, perhaps it’s the sun that’s got to them.
2) The agents are still brass faced, they have always just sold one and have a punter begging them to sell the one they are showing you to them. They don’t help themselves, sales adds in agents window displays are so faded that you can hardly read them, and there were a lot with prices crossed out with the new price hand scribbled on.
3) Don’t expect any help, there are no friends out there. Try to narrow your search to a particular area and then to a development or urbanisation and then become your own expert in that area. We found a property selling for 60,000 euros less than an identical one two doors away but there doesn’t appear to be a queue to buy it as the agent is never off the phone to us.
4) If you don’t need to buy now wait for 6 months or so, IMO prices have further to drop and the pound will not stay weak against the euro for ever.
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Some interesting commentry here ….. more fuel for the debate.
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Mike
Thats some report
Can only speak for myself with a property in Spain and another that I have problems with .
Lets bring it on and get all of the dirty washing brought out in the open.
Have always said that the only way the Spanish Government/Courts and Banks will stand up and be counted is when they are made to from amongst others their European Partners.
Just have feeling that Euro lands banks may not to to happy with the Bank Guarantee situation,
Also perhaps in some sectors it may be good for Spain to suffer as they have had one hell of a party.
At least there may be a line that can be drawn no matter how bad.Just Frank 8)
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Hi Frank,
Some interesting stuff in there but it seems that several institutions are now coming out in the open and saying that ‘the emperor hasn’t got any clothes on’ ……
“A number of banks have now expressed an opinion, most recently Spain’s very own BBVA, who now estimate prices will fall “close to 5% in 2009 and 10% in 2010″ leading to a total fall of 25% by 2011. They thus joinn the Swiss banks Credit Suisse and UBS who have already forecast a drop of 30% over a similar time frame. For my own part I think there are so many unknowns at this point that all estimates must surely be of a rather symbolic nature. All I think that we can say is that the drop is going to be large and substantial.”
For my part, I’ve bought to ‘nest’ but the place needs some serious money spent on it before we can live there full time ……. and with my funds in sterling, and with the rate, we’re having to sit back and wait for the rate to change. Hopefully the end of 2010 will see us continue the work but with the volatility at the moment; one persons guess is as good as another’s.
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Hi Mike
Yep the exchange rate is really one thats giving me bigger problems than those that I have been doing my best to get around.
Stop moving the bloody goal posts and give us harf a chance.
All seems part of a bigger plan somehow but cant seem to find the rules of the game.
Think you may be right that the slow torching down turn with Banks may soon turn into a suicide drop and the problems that will then bring
Hey 😆 I am only guessing here 😕Just Frank 8)
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