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We are considering buying an off plan apartment in a small typical spanish village in Granada. It is very near to ski resort, golf course, lake and Granada City, and only 15 minutes from airport. I have read a lot of posts on this forum, so would be extremely careful with an off plan, and would question everything and not use agents lawyers etc. As my husband and son both ski and play golf, and it is only 15 mins from city, we think it seems to be a really good buy. However, I always get cold feet when reading the horror stories about off plan on this forum. The village location and the closeness of golf, ski, city etc ticked all the boxes with what we are looking for. I just hope we are doing the right thing! We have visited Granada in the last week, we hired a car and drove all around the areas around the city, we loved the countryside, city and villages, we seemed to be the only english everywhere we visited, so had to use our spanish phrase book, and had some fun ordering meals in spanish! We are looking at off plan because it is cheaper than a resale in this particular village. Anybody live or bought in Granada city area who could give us some advice?
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Hi gk,
We looked at a development at Monochil – off plan. Granada is a great city but remember the skiing is poor and it’s at least an hours drive to the sea. If you go ahead offer at least 30% below the asking price etc. Proceed with extreme caution.
The general advice on this forum is avoid off-plan. This might be especially good advice at this moment as the market looks uncertain. Also ask yourself – ‘Do I really want the stress of buying and owning in Spain?’ I’m really glad I didn’t.
🙂
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Hi gk,
We looked at a development at Monochil – off plan. Granada is a great city but remember the skiing is poor and it’s at least an hours drive to the sea. If you go ahead offer at least 30% below the asking price etc. Proceed with extreme caution.
The general advice on this forum is avoid off-plan. This might be especially good advice at this moment as the market looks uncertain. Also ask yourself – ‘Do I really want the stress of buying and owning in Spain?’ I’m really glad I didn’t.
🙂
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Hi, thanks for advice. We are looking at buying for holiday home purposes. People were still skiing when we visited the ski resort last week, although it was the end of the season and had started to melt. We are not avid skiers and would not be buying purely for that purpose, we just thought it would be a amenity that was a plus that would come with the purchase. Also, we are not bothered about the distance to the sea, as we prefer the mountains, lakes and spectacular scenery. And the city is another bonus being 15 mins away.
The only concern we have at the moment is while we did look at properties with an agent (found through a property locator) whilst we were out there last week, we were shown an off plan property that was nearing completion in the village we preferred. The property had just come back onto the market apparently a purchaser had decided not to go ahead with the sale, and was selling the contract. The price of the 2 bed apart property is 142,470 euros, but the declared price is 124,449 euros. plus the usual IVA and commission of 8760 euros, which by the way seems a lot to us. We had expressed an interest in another off plan property that hasn’t been started yet, which we preferred as it had more facilities and was cheaper than the one they were telling us was a better investment and within our price range as we would not need to take out a mortgage. They have now come back to us this morning to say that the 2 bed we are really interested in has been reserved by another buyer. They again told us in their opinion the one we are not really interested (and we would also have to borrow more money for this one) is a better buy, but have sent us details of the one we like “just incase the apart we do like falls through.” We are disappointed, but we will not be buying the one they are pushing on to us, and are prepared to walk away from buying any. The feeling is they are desperate to sell the contract of the property they are advising us to buy whether we are interested in it or not!!!
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Hi, thanks for advice. We are looking at buying for holiday home purposes. People were still skiing when we visited the ski resort last week, although it was the end of the season and had started to melt. We are not avid skiers and would not be buying purely for that purpose, we just thought it would be a amenity that was a plus that would come with the purchase. Also, we are not bothered about the distance to the sea, as we prefer the mountains, lakes and spectacular scenery. And the city is another bonus being 15 mins away.
The only concern we have at the moment is while we did look at properties with an agent (found through a property locator) whilst we were out there last week, we were shown an off plan property that was nearing completion in the village we preferred. The property had just come back onto the market apparently a purchaser had decided not to go ahead with the sale, and was selling the contract. The price of the 2 bed apart property is 142,470 euros, but the declared price is 124,449 euros. plus the usual IVA and commission of 8760 euros, which by the way seems a lot to us. We had expressed an interest in another off plan property that hasn’t been started yet, which we preferred as it had more facilities and was cheaper than the one they were telling us was a better investment and within our price range as we would not need to take out a mortgage. They have now come back to us this morning to say that the 2 bed we are really interested in has been reserved by another buyer. They again told us in their opinion the one we are not really interested (and we would also have to borrow more money for this one) is a better buy, but have sent us details of the one we like “just incase the apart we do like falls through.” We are disappointed, but we will not be buying the one they are pushing on to us, and are prepared to walk away from buying any. The feeling is they are desperate to sell the contract of the property they are advising us to buy whether we are interested in it or not!!!
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An off-plan property not completed always has more facilities, problem is they don’t usually materialize. The agent maybe trying to channel you into what they want you to buy, I would try another agent they all have the same on sale anyway. Apart from the usual problems with off-plan if you buy something completed or nearly completed you can use it now. Something not started always takes about 3 years no matter what they say.
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An off-plan property not completed always has more facilities, problem is they don’t usually materialize. The agent maybe trying to channel you into what they want you to buy, I would try another agent they all have the same on sale anyway. Apart from the usual problems with off-plan if you buy something completed or nearly completed you can use it now. Something not started always takes about 3 years no matter what they say.
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Hi katy, it does sound like the agent is trying to channel us into buying the one they want to sell. It doesnt have a pool, but the other development will have one. The two or even three year off development has got two bathrooms and two smaller terraces, with communal pool, communal rooftop terrace, views, and is priced at 119,000 euros, against the price of the one that is due to be completed in August this year. Is it still practice to under declare the price of a property? This is something Iwondered about, even though we will not be buying that property. We would not mind waiting for 2/3 years, as we would still go on holidays while waiting for an off plan to be built. We would hope that it would be worth a little bit more than 119,000 by the time it is built and would hold on to it for a few years.
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Hi katy, it does sound like the agent is trying to channel us into buying the one they want to sell. It doesnt have a pool, but the other development will have one. The two or even three year off development has got two bathrooms and two smaller terraces, with communal pool, communal rooftop terrace, views, and is priced at 119,000 euros, against the price of the one that is due to be completed in August this year. Is it still practice to under declare the price of a property? This is something Iwondered about, even though we will not be buying that property. We would not mind waiting for 2/3 years, as we would still go on holidays while waiting for an off plan to be built. We would hope that it would be worth a little bit more than 119,000 by the time it is built and would hold on to it for a few years.
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Hi GK,
It sounds to me that they are pushing you to the August one as they will get paid a lot quicker and also a lot more than the other property. I think that if you stick to your guns the other one you like will suddenly become available as any sale is better for them than no sale.
I wouldnt get involved in any under declaring if i was you. Its not worth the long term consequences as the only person likely to get caught will be you. If anybody wants black money now I would suggest sticking to your guns again and demand all is handled properly or you will walk away.
And finally if you do go for the offplan make sure a bank guarantee is available to you free of charge and use an independant lawyer of your choosing andf not theirs.
Kind regards
Bernard
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Hi GK,
It sounds to me that they are pushing you to the August one as they will get paid a lot quicker and also a lot more than the other property. I think that if you stick to your guns the other one you like will suddenly become available as any sale is better for them than no sale.
I wouldnt get involved in any under declaring if i was you. Its not worth the long term consequences as the only person likely to get caught will be you. If anybody wants black money now I would suggest sticking to your guns again and demand all is handled properly or you will walk away.
And finally if you do go for the offplan make sure a bank guarantee is available to you free of charge and use an independant lawyer of your choosing andf not theirs.
Kind regards
Bernard
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Good advice from Bernard and keep away from the dodgey stuff.
Those who have limited interest or have no property in Spain are often for some reason the first to give advise.
Some are perhaps to quick to give advice as they want to share the bad experience they may have had themselves so understand that they have genuine reasons in many cases be negative.
Also remember that some may wish to talk the market up as they will just not admit that they made the wrong call.
The best advice is its you thats intending to buy so listen to as many different views and then make the informed decision yourself.
Your lucky as in 2002/2003 some of us could not have obtained advice like you have today however dont let that cloud the bottom line.
Remember though that even the those times the majority are very happy with what they have in Spain.
Sounds to me like you are doing your homework and suggest you go carefully ,appointed a recommended lawyer to ensure the paperwork is 100% and as its a buyers market at the moment its you that call the shots.
The one bit of advice I can give you is that the profit will not be in what you sell it for in future years its what you pay for it now.
Remember that also that prices can go down as well as up and if your O.K with that then bingo.Good Luck g.k
Regards
Jim -
Good advice from Bernard and keep away from the dodgey stuff.
Those who have limited interest or have no property in Spain are often for some reason the first to give advise.
Some are perhaps to quick to give advice as they want to share the bad experience they may have had themselves so understand that they have genuine reasons in many cases be negative.
Also remember that some may wish to talk the market up as they will just not admit that they made the wrong call.
The best advice is its you thats intending to buy so listen to as many different views and then make the informed decision yourself.
Your lucky as in 2002/2003 some of us could not have obtained advice like you have today however dont let that cloud the bottom line.
Remember though that even the those times the majority are very happy with what they have in Spain.
Sounds to me like you are doing your homework and suggest you go carefully ,appointed a recommended lawyer to ensure the paperwork is 100% and as its a buyers market at the moment its you that call the shots.
The one bit of advice I can give you is that the profit will not be in what you sell it for in future years its what you pay for it now.
Remember that also that prices can go down as well as up and if your O.K with that then bingo.Good Luck g.k
Regards
Jim -
Having just returned from a 2 week trip to Granada I can fully understand why you are attracted to buy there.
Personally I wouldn’t touch any off-plan particuarly in Spain…..also I’d be tempted to wait a few months to see if this crash in property stocks starts to extend to the property market.
The time you’d have to wait for this off-plan to complete may be better spent waiting by the sidelines to bag yourself a bargain in 2010.
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Having just returned from a 2 week trip to Granada I can fully understand why you are attracted to buy there.
Personally I wouldn’t touch any off-plan particuarly in Spain…..also I’d be tempted to wait a few months to see if this crash in property stocks starts to extend to the property market.
The time you’d have to wait for this off-plan to complete may be better spent waiting by the sidelines to bag yourself a bargain in 2010.
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Not sure what you are on about Jim, I have posted twice on here, do live here, legal property, no probs. In no way is my advice coloured by my experiences, just those of friends and contacts. I feel my advice is valuable, definately no agenda, only experience, people can take it or leave it without your input. Btloptingout…there will be bargains before 2010…or I will eat my sombrero 🙂
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Not sure what you are on about Jim, I have posted twice on here, do live here, legal property, no probs. In no way is my advice coloured by my experiences, just those of friends and contacts. I feel my advice is valuable, definately no agenda, only experience, people can take it or leave it without your input. Btloptingout…there will be bargains before 2010…or I will eat my sombrero 🙂
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@katy wrote:
Btloptingout…there will be bargains before 2010…or I will eat my sombrero 🙂
Bet not taken……I’m sure there will be!
Typically a domestic driven bust is a slow played out affair….but Spain is a significant speculator/luxury/lifestyle market and hence ought have a crash cruise speed significantly more than that of USA/UK…..
Even still, peak to trough ought take a few years so there will be bargains for several years with trough around 2011/12. Personally I’m hanging on for 2010 ish…which is the right timing for me to “lifestyle change”
😆
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@katy wrote:
Btloptingout…there will be bargains before 2010…or I will eat my sombrero 🙂
Bet not taken……I’m sure there will be!
Typically a domestic driven bust is a slow played out affair….but Spain is a significant speculator/luxury/lifestyle market and hence ought have a crash cruise speed significantly more than that of USA/UK…..
Even still, peak to trough ought take a few years so there will be bargains for several years with trough around 2011/12. Personally I’m hanging on for 2010 ish…which is the right timing for me to “lifestyle change”
😆
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Hi GK
as you will have gathered from posts on here and in recent news that the Spanish market is a little on the toppling side. My advice would be similar to Meatloaf
STOP RIGHT THERE!
Why – because at the moment there are (figures vary according to who you listen to) 200,000 new built properties built last year that dont have a buyer a further oversupply expecting in building sarts of about the same amount., with a predicted downfall in the market of 7% (less buyers not price drop)
Add to this mix the fact that by the end of this year (the way things are going it may be sooner) many developers that are starting those builds will not be in existence PLUS a rapid tightening of credit facilities by the banks to developers
and what you have is a recipe for a dropping market. Therefore my advice to yuo would be to hold off. One thing is for sure the market is not going to go up this year (in spite of optimistic reports) except in a few isolated cases.
There is an old maxim in property investment – (and I think it has been either repeated in this post or in another thread) – buy at the bottom of the cycle.
We are currently at or near the peak therefore to buy now at the top of a cycle would be madness (imho of course) and it will take you more than a few years to even break even, I think 3-5 years would be optimistic.
If you buy now at €119,000 – assuming as everyone is saying – the market is 30% overpriced. That means with taxes you would be paying 131,000 or thereabouts. Assuming the market then drops over the next few years to 30% below – your property in 2010 will be worth around 83,000
With an optimistic 10% rise per annum afterwards it will take you until 2015 just to get back the money you paid initially – not including estate agents fees for
Please dont think that because it is off plan it must rise in the next few years – why do you think many speculators have lost money recently and got their fingers burnt.
Because they made the very same assumption.
My advice would be to wait – it may be the bubble as it is will not burst and we are in for a soft landing. It may be the market remains flat, or it may be that the market drops like a stone
However given the possibility of the market actually rising at the moment over the next two years I would say the prudent move would be to take a breath and wait 6 months – the property will still be available (doubt very much the agent has another buyer)
Sorry this post is so long but having tried to advise clients in the past in placing their money in wise property investments (and them totally ignoring what I said – only to find they are stuck with expensive white elephants) I want to make sure you have a full appraisal of what you are letting yourself in for by buying now before going ahead.
Good luck in your purchase if you do decide to go ahead and just make sure that whoever you are using (solicitor, agentt, bank etc) are acting on YOUR behalf – not theirs
Regards
Vince
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Hi GK
as you will have gathered from posts on here and in recent news that the Spanish market is a little on the toppling side. My advice would be similar to Meatloaf
STOP RIGHT THERE!
Why – because at the moment there are (figures vary according to who you listen to) 200,000 new built properties built last year that dont have a buyer a further oversupply expecting in building sarts of about the same amount., with a predicted downfall in the market of 7% (less buyers not price drop)
Add to this mix the fact that by the end of this year (the way things are going it may be sooner) many developers that are starting those builds will not be in existence PLUS a rapid tightening of credit facilities by the banks to developers
and what you have is a recipe for a dropping market. Therefore my advice to yuo would be to hold off. One thing is for sure the market is not going to go up this year (in spite of optimistic reports) except in a few isolated cases.
There is an old maxim in property investment – (and I think it has been either repeated in this post or in another thread) – buy at the bottom of the cycle.
We are currently at or near the peak therefore to buy now at the top of a cycle would be madness (imho of course) and it will take you more than a few years to even break even, I think 3-5 years would be optimistic.
If you buy now at €119,000 – assuming as everyone is saying – the market is 30% overpriced. That means with taxes you would be paying 131,000 or thereabouts. Assuming the market then drops over the next few years to 30% below – your property in 2010 will be worth around 83,000
With an optimistic 10% rise per annum afterwards it will take you until 2015 just to get back the money you paid initially – not including estate agents fees for
Please dont think that because it is off plan it must rise in the next few years – why do you think many speculators have lost money recently and got their fingers burnt.
Because they made the very same assumption.
My advice would be to wait – it may be the bubble as it is will not burst and we are in for a soft landing. It may be the market remains flat, or it may be that the market drops like a stone
However given the possibility of the market actually rising at the moment over the next two years I would say the prudent move would be to take a breath and wait 6 months – the property will still be available (doubt very much the agent has another buyer)
Sorry this post is so long but having tried to advise clients in the past in placing their money in wise property investments (and them totally ignoring what I said – only to find they are stuck with expensive white elephants) I want to make sure you have a full appraisal of what you are letting yourself in for by buying now before going ahead.
Good luck in your purchase if you do decide to go ahead and just make sure that whoever you are using (solicitor, agentt, bank etc) are acting on YOUR behalf – not theirs
Regards
Vince
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@glassman wrote:
Those who have limited interest or have no property in Spain are often for some reason the first to give advise.
Some are perhaps to quick to give advice as they want to share the bad experience they may have had themselves as a sort of crusade.Jim , I’m tired of seeing your snide remarks. With your track record, you are hardly in a position to offer advice yourself. I would listen to Katy anyday…she lives and breathes the Spanish air ..24/7
Just to add to the doom & gloom:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/04/26/wspain26.xml
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@glassman wrote:
Those who have limited interest or have no property in Spain are often for some reason the first to give advise.
Some are perhaps to quick to give advice as they want to share the bad experience they may have had themselves as a sort of crusade.Jim , I’m tired of seeing your snide remarks. With your track record, you are hardly in a position to offer advice yourself. I would listen to Katy anyday…she lives and breathes the Spanish air ..24/7
Just to add to the doom & gloom:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/04/26/wspain26.xml
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hi gk.
we are buying off plan on the balcones de lznalloz complex which is also just outside of granada. we too loved the area, and like youselves, the idea of being able to get to the coast and the slopes but still be away from it all was very appealling, and i think as this is an expanding area for new builds the prices of property seem good.
we asked for and received copies of all the legal documents (building licence, blue prints, bank guarantee awaiting our collection) before we proceeded with the purchase and we are being kept well informed as things progress on the building side. so far so good. there is also an excellent web site for the development at granadaliving.comgood luck and i hope you find what you are looking for.
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hi gk.
we are buying off plan on the balcones de lznalloz complex which is also just outside of granada. we too loved the area, and like youselves, the idea of being able to get to the coast and the slopes but still be away from it all was very appealling, and i think as this is an expanding area for new builds the prices of property seem good.
we asked for and received copies of all the legal documents (building licence, blue prints, bank guarantee awaiting our collection) before we proceeded with the purchase and we are being kept well informed as things progress on the building side. so far so good. there is also an excellent web site for the development at granadaliving.comgood luck and i hope you find what you are looking for.
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I feel much better after reading everyones opinions and advice.
We have been looking for an investment holiday home since last year. We are not in a hurry and will now wait and see what the market does.
We looked in the Murcia region last year. I was not impressed, it was mostly scrubland. Part of the golf development was finished, but most of the apartments seemed to be empty I remember thinking, this is a ghost resort, we are in the middle of nowhere here, where is the lovely spanish culture, villages etc! And the apartments were very expensive!
If we buy in Spain, we would want to be in a village or nearby, not in a purpose built community. I am a very slow decider, and like to research reseach research. I have to say we did get good feeling about the mountain village of Monachil we stayed in Granada, the towns and villages around the area where lovely, and we noticed how the village was being “spruced up” due to the few residential developments being built in it, and was very picturesque.
We didn’t bump into any english while we were there and realised that we would definitely have to speak the language. We are going to wait and see if anything else becomes available and take our time deciding. We are believers in fate, and will know when we find the right property.
jm1830 we had intended on visiting Iznalloz, but fell in love with the village of Monachil while we were staying there. The website for your development is very informative, good luck with your sale!
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I feel much better after reading everyones opinions and advice.
We have been looking for an investment holiday home since last year. We are not in a hurry and will now wait and see what the market does.
We looked in the Murcia region last year. I was not impressed, it was mostly scrubland. Part of the golf development was finished, but most of the apartments seemed to be empty I remember thinking, this is a ghost resort, we are in the middle of nowhere here, where is the lovely spanish culture, villages etc! And the apartments were very expensive!
If we buy in Spain, we would want to be in a village or nearby, not in a purpose built community. I am a very slow decider, and like to research reseach research. I have to say we did get good feeling about the mountain village of Monachil we stayed in Granada, the towns and villages around the area where lovely, and we noticed how the village was being “spruced up” due to the few residential developments being built in it, and was very picturesque.
We didn’t bump into any english while we were there and realised that we would definitely have to speak the language. We are going to wait and see if anything else becomes available and take our time deciding. We are believers in fate, and will know when we find the right property.
jm1830 we had intended on visiting Iznalloz, but fell in love with the village of Monachil while we were staying there. The website for your development is very informative, good luck with your sale!
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Claire.
So your record is good then ❓ 🙂
Why do you assume that I was refering to you as this wasnt the case. 😕
Happy to accept katys advice as well as anyones on board as long as its constructive in one way or another
As you say katy owns property and breaths the air in Spain.
Katy request on the Marbella thread and if you can help please do soRegards
Jim 😀 -
Claire.
So your record is good then ❓ 🙂
Why do you assume that I was refering to you as this wasnt the case. 😕
Happy to accept katys advice as well as anyones on board as long as its constructive in one way or another
As you say katy owns property and breaths the air in Spain.
Katy request on the Marbella thread and if you can help please do soRegards
Jim 😀 -
Quote:
Those who have limited interest or have no property in Spain are often for some reason the first to give advise.
Some are perhaps to quick to give advice as they want to share the bad experience they may have had themselves as a sort of crusade.Because Jim, you have said it so often on here and particularly on EOS when refering to charlie & I in derogatory terms. All I am saying is…please don’t keep bringing out the same old tiresome line! Telling people of bad experiences is not a crusade.
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Quote:
Those who have limited interest or have no property in Spain are often for some reason the first to give advise.
Some are perhaps to quick to give advice as they want to share the bad experience they may have had themselves as a sort of crusade.Because Jim, you have said it so often on here and particularly on EOS when refering to charlie & I in derogatory terms. All I am saying is…please don’t keep bringing out the same old tiresome line! Telling people of bad experiences is not a crusade.
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Claire
Not intended in anyway to refer to you or Charlie as hopefully that is well behind. 🙂
Sorry if you got the wrong end of the stick as snide remarks do none of us any good.
Read it again and cant see why Katy was upset but what ever it was ,sorry 🙁
Will edit it for good measures (seem to do alot of that as well you know)Go get em Gal ❗
Regards
Jim 😀 -
Claire
Not intended in anyway to refer to you or Charlie as hopefully that is well behind. 🙂
Sorry if you got the wrong end of the stick as snide remarks do none of us any good.
Read it again and cant see why Katy was upset but what ever it was ,sorry 🙁
Will edit it for good measures (seem to do alot of that as well you know)Go get em Gal ❗
Regards
Jim 😀 -
Hi gk,
Yes I agree, Monachil does have a lot going for it. We so very nearly bought until I looked into the fine detail and realized how poorly constructed the project was going to be and that the developer did not have all the licenses in place. Also the English property finder told me he had bought an apartment for an investment. This turned out to be a bare-faced lie!
Having said that, if you wait a while and keep an eye on the market and buy at the correct time, I feel sure that Monachil could be a good location, especially if they develop a ski-station there.
Incidentally, the skiing is limited. They had a very late snow fall this year which possibly coincided with your visit.
Good luck with your search.
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Hi gk,
Yes I agree, Monachil does have a lot going for it. We so very nearly bought until I looked into the fine detail and realized how poorly constructed the project was going to be and that the developer did not have all the licenses in place. Also the English property finder told me he had bought an apartment for an investment. This turned out to be a bare-faced lie!
Having said that, if you wait a while and keep an eye on the market and buy at the correct time, I feel sure that Monachil could be a good location, especially if they develop a ski-station there.
Incidentally, the skiing is limited. They had a very late snow fall this year which possibly coincided with your visit.
Good luck with your search.
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