- This topic has 47 replies, 16 voices, and was last updated 11 years, 8 months ago by
.
-
Posts
-
-
Hi 😀
I could really use some Sound advice.
I have finally saved up, and lend enough money to buy a small flat with a view in beautiful vejer de la frontera.
But the current economic situation in spain makes me wonder if this is the time. Should i wait a year or two, or maybe just use the fact in a negocion about the Price?I love vejer, but am also interested in areas north of bcn – not more than 20 km from the coast.
If you Can offer any kind of advice, i Will be so grateful.
Kind regards
Bolette, copenhagen -
-
Yes Bolette wait for the market to bottom out. There is no prospect of prices rising for a considerable time and every prospect of further declines. I know Vejer de la Frontera and agree it’s a great region but property is still over priced there in my view compared to the rest of Spain.
If you can wait and don’t need to buy to live there then do so. There are too many uncertainties surrounding the market.This chart suggests steady declines in prices compared to the Spanish average should continue. My own opinion is those declines need to hit an average 60% from peak to be anything like realistic value.
http://www.kyero.com/house_prices/6474-vejer-de-la-frontera-house-prices
-
ditto mgspain, rent first, RENT FIRST SHOUTING IT OUT LOUD!!!!!!!!!!! If you still really love the area then go ahead by offering way below the asking price. Give it a try. If you don’t like it then great, you haven’t lost out that much. With renting you can change areas to find out what you really like as well.
-
When you say Vejer do you mean the old town or the vicinity ??? Before I go further be aware of dampness problems in the old arabic houses built on top of Vejer. Sadly people have added additional floors without permission & with lack of respect or sensativty obstructing the views of others and destroying the charater.
If you are planning to to buy in the old village I do not see much change in prices besides using the current situation & offering a reduced price could be a ploy than you can use besides those houses are in great demand & there is constraint. The question than comes will the tax authorities accept the declared buying price !!!
If you are planning to buy in the new areas than you can wait as prices will drop. Any it is not a bad idea to rent and see how it goes. Day to day problems some times takes the shine off Spain.
Sorry, what is BCN ??? If you are talking about Barcelona ??? than I am afraid you are floating over Spain & not be able to square the circle. -
Sorry, but not quite sure what the expression about what square and circle means? First language is Danish 🙂
Thank you all for answering – Will Think some more.
I have visited vejer and Barcelona many times and they are my favorites places in Spain – different as they are. Therefore my thoughts as to which areas i am thinking about.Is vejer especially expensive for that region?
Again – Thank you for taking your time to answering 🙂
-
@bolett4 wrote:
Hi 😀
I could really use some Sound advice.
I have finally saved up, and lend enough money to buy a small flat with a view in beautiful vejer de la frontera.
But the current economic situation in spain makes me wonder if this is the time. Should i wait a year or two, or maybe just use the fact in a negocion about the Price?I love vejer, but am also interested in areas north of bcn – not more than 20 km from the coast.
If you Can offer any kind of advice, i Will be so grateful.
Kind regards
Bolette, copenhagenSpain is no longer a beautiful country. It was a beautiful country once back in the 1950’s and 1960’s but not anymore. Greed and endemic corruption has ruined Spain. The Spanish Government are heavily in debt and need to get as much money as they can and if you buy a property in Spain the Spanish Government will fleece you for every Euro you have got. Don’t touch property in Spain even with a ten foot barge pole. Spain is in a ten year long depression.
-
I am going to go against all the other comments for the following reasons. Life is about living.
I remember listening to a financial pundit on the radio about 20 years ago in the UK taking about why you should buy a house as a home not an investment. I have a slightly different philosophy although similar, about applying that attitude to all aspects of life.
If you have found something that you like, can comfortable afford it and have real reasons for wanting a house in that region then buy it. We are already into 5 years of declines (nearly entering 6!) who knows what will happen, but you have the knowledge that you have already have gained from a large price drop. You are also in a strong position as it’s a buyers market. Will it be like this next year, almost certainly, 2014 probably, 2015 no idea.
What is the house worth to you and if it reduced in price by another 20% what would you feel. If it reduced by 10% but you lost it what would you feel?
Just as an aside.
I sold my second Spanish property at a huge discount in 2009. It had no value to me. I didn’t use it as I had a better and larger apartment, so I put in on a price to sell to get on with my life and stop worrying of course I lost a lot of money, but it sold in 4 weeks!!
A family friend about the same had a property that he no longer used after his wife died. When his wife was alive they used it as a out of town retreat away from Madrid. My friend is very elderly and he would regularly check on the property by driving to it. This nearly killed him as he had a car accident one day in doing so. I advised his daughter before the accident that her father would be dead before the market improved so sell it at a price it will sell at and get on with life. Today it is now at half the price it was back then around 2008, they even had an offer around a year ago but turned it down. Now they are trying to sell at 30,000 Euros less than the offer of a year ago!!!!
I really believe now that the father will die before the house is sold. He could have sold it 6 years ago when it had no value to him at a price of double of that of today, but for the sake of not wanting to sell for probably 20~30,000 less than market value, they have lost out big time and of course he has lost out on enjoying spending the money from the property on his family!
What you are doing is just the same but trying to catch the bottom of the market. You just need to balance the worth of the property to you and your life against any financial losses you could make.
-
I agree in principle jp1 good post. The days of property as a money making machine are gone. They will never return in a generation. I also believe that property as a holiday home makes little sense.
Governments and taxes have seen to that.I’m not even sure that Spain for the retired makes sense anymore either because of buying in taxes, maintenance costs and inheritance taxes for spouse on death. A far better solution is long holidays in the winter. Hotels are cheap and comfortable with none of these concerns.
If our thread poster needs or wants to live in Spain that’s slightly different. However buying now is a bad idea for all the reason contributors have written.
There’s an old adage of ‘marry in haste, repent at leisure.’ The same can be said of buying property in a broken market. You can just as easily rent and get on with your life. Being an owner these days will bring you little but increasing costs and aggravation.
-
I’m not even sure that Spain for the retired makes sense anymore either because of buying in taxes, maintenance costs and inheritance taxes for spouse on death. A far better solution is long holidays in the winter. Hotels are cheap and comfortable with none of these concerns.
Logan agree. been there and done it. It is an entirely different ballgame to when we moved in 1995. We are paying substantially less taxes than we paid in Spain. Council tax maybe a little cheaper but there are virtually no services.
I do agree with the “why wait” for a lifestyle philosophy but what is happening now is new territory. Who would want to buy into the train crash that is happening now. For people retiring, young or old there is the concern of crumbling infrastructure, health services etc. Only this week I have read in the Málaga paper some horror stories. A pallative care centre in Málaga without a Doctor, a Marbella school which has such serious electrical problems that it cuts out every 5 minutes and has been so since the beginning of the term in September. Just the tip of the iceburg. I would hate renting but would certainly consider it as the way to go if wanting to live in Spain.
-
Buying v renting, the age of the buyer should be considered, I know of quite a few expats who bought out in the “olive groves” and no have been left high and dry following the death of a partner.
On couple lived on an “expat urb” but they sold up to move to “real Spain” as they put it and , they now say it is the biggest mistake they have ever made, as travelling to doctors, supermarkets etc is a pain.When the owner dies, the family are quite often left with the unwanted property, stuck with the taxes and red tape involed in inheriting and selling, and in many cases the parents only enjoyed a couple of years living in the sun, before ill health or death scuppered their plans.
Adding the purchase price extras, the improvments to the property, price crash, selling commisons and death duties, proved to be a lot more expensive than renting, and with much more hassle.
-
Thank you all for your views and advice 🙂
Still thinking… My idea is to buy a small flat – and spend our holidays there. I am 42, and have work, kids in schools etc, so no plans to move to Spain for good. Just in love with the country, the People and the weather.
Have a really hard time imagining having to wait – it has been my Dream for a long time, and now finally possible.At the same time i have no hurry, and am willing to wait a year or so.
Thank you all again 🙂
-
same age, same dream, same position, although I’m looking at a villa with pool rather than an apartment and I’d need to borrow 20% of the purchase price.
I have just come back from a viewing trip (North Costa Blanca) this week and I’m at ‘decision time’
guess I have to make my mind up or let this one go.
could do with some advice
-
Listen it basicly comes down to your own life and your situation.
From a logical economic stand point I don’t think you have anything to gain from acting quickly at the moment. This crisis will be felt for a long time in Spain and in the rest of the world and it’s not like it’s going to fix itself quickly and especially when it comes to real estate in Spain because of several well known factors.
I would recommend to rent first whatever you decide to do. If you love it and you still feel you want to buy then do it. Transactions costs are really high in Spain so if you buy it should be looked at a minimum 10 year.
Nice to see a fellow scandinavian on here.
The best deals I have ever made is when I have done the exact opposite of what everyone else believes and who knows if this ain’t one of those situations.
-
It’s impossible to give more than the general advice and information this thread has already produced unless you provide more personal details. What you want to use the property for and how you see it in the future.
The market is unsafe for investment for many reasons which you can find if you trawl back through previous forum posts. Basically don’t so it unless you have a very solid financial reason.
-
Well – for me it will be a holidayhome, that i plan to use 5-6 weeks a year. Maybe some long weekends too. I have saved and borrowed about 75.000 euros in total. I have looked and investigated kyero, idealista, fotocasa and a few other websites. It is still very much a dream for me, but am trying to be patient about it, and wait… Not sure that i will be able to though 🙂
-
-
For that period of time you need to consider the annual costs and tax implications. Add them up and include annual increases of around 3%. Consider also inheritance tax, none resident tax, maintenance and depreciation costs, security costs, buying in taxes and your own personal expenses just to use it.
Then there is capital risk in a falling market and likely mortgage interest increases in the future. If you decide to rent it out costs for property management and the legal obligation to declare the income to your revenue collectors.
If you still believe it’s worth it ask other people who have done the same thing. You will find many people desperate to sell and cannot because the property has become a financial millstone round their necks. You cannot predict the future and how your own circumstances may change.
Most people eventually become tired having to go to the same place year in year out for a holiday just because they bought a property there.
My best advice is it makes no sense, keep your money and invest it. Enjoy a holiday from the income it produces. Remember financial investment is a business decision not an emotional one.
-
I’m currently paying around £3000 a year in holiday rental villas and like visiting the same area. I would prefer this money to be put towards the running costs of my own place. Since 2007 I have been going to different places all around the Med which is driveable, St Tropez to Murcia and everywhere in between and I have found my spot. I’m into boating and eventually would like a power boat on the Med (bigger the better) I’m also looking to split my time between spain and the uk as I can work from anywhere being internet based. My other half works in a school and gets all of the school holidays off. She would want to stay out there all summer (but I’d want to get a few high value rentals!) My parents-in-law are retired and would spend the winter out there and pay towards running costs until I’m retired myself (hopefully soon lol) I could see it being used most of the time by extended family and would not be looking to rent it out to strangers.
My offer is in…………
-
-
@pizzacheaze wrote:
I’m currently paying around £3000 a year in holiday rental villas and like visiting the same area. I would prefer this money to be put towards the running costs of my own place. Since 2007 I have been going to different places all around the Med which is driveable, St Tropez to Murcia and everywhere in between and I have found my spot. I’m into boating and eventually would like a power boat on the Med (bigger the better) I’m also looking to split my time between spain and the uk as I can work from anywhere being internet based. My other half works in a school and gets all of the school holidays off. She would want to stay out there all summer (but I’d want to get a few high value rentals!) My parents-in-law are retired and would spend the winter out there and pay towards running costs until I’m retired myself (hopefully soon lol) I could see it being used most of the time by extended family and would not be looking to rent it out to strangers.
My offer is in…………
You seem very confident in your plans and intentions. That begs a question why you asked for advice on this thread? 😕
-
-
I am a couple of years older at 44 and want the same as you pizzachease also on the northern costa blanca (around the moraira area for me)i have added it up roughly and last year spent over 10k on holidays and as much as i want to take the leap a voice in my head is saying wait, maybe its the same one that told me not to go and live there when i had the chance 7years ago.I see prices are dropping now as the bank start to release their stock.Only yesterday i stumbled across exactly what i am looking for and at just under 400k still what i can afford as a holiday home.
But i really don’t want to spend that much i was hoping to spend 300k + fees so to wait and watch and hope it doesn’t sell makes sense i also believe what will be will be.Have already paid a deposit to rent this summer coming and just a 5 minute walk from the mariner i haven’t stayed so close so it will be another thing checked on the do i like it list.
Which is the town you have chosen to buy in -
@logan wrote:
You seem very confident in your plans and intentions. That begs a question why you asked for advice on this thread? 😕
Before spending the most money I have ever spent in my life I would say it would be a sound move to ask for advice, especially from people who have already got the tshirt. Whether I accept advice is another thing. I always like to weigh up all the options before jumping in. One things for sure, anyone buying in this economic climate is taking a huge risk.
@UBEDA wrote:
go for it pizzacheeese!!! you only live once; never mind the pennypinchers and cassandras; re boats, get a White shark with two big outboards!!! 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂
lol, offer is in, if accepted I will 🙂 tank it up with fuel, grab some bikini babes and we are off to ibiza.
@dartboy wrote:
Which is the town you have chosen to buy in
Javea or Moraria (in the hills) is my chosen location. Luxury property at affordable prices, pity its a little far out from the airport, but its an easy drive. Has everything I need within 5 min drive and its quiet.
-
-
@dartboy wrote:
Which is the town you have chosen to buy in
Javea or Moraria (in the hills) is my chosen location. Luxury property at affordable prices, pity its a little far out from the airport, but its an easy drive. Has everything I need within 5 min drive and its quiet.[/quote]
Good choice. Personal recomendation for you try eating at the rondo its just off the road out of moraira towards calpe as you come down the hill after the pepe la sal supermarket and just before the bridge on the 180 bend run by a scotish family great food and not expensive like some places.
-
Advice given my me on here not to invest in Spanish property at this time is not about penny pinching, or dislike of Spain or any other of the critical epithets attributed to me. Usually by those who want to send the other message for their own reasons.
I study markets and economic trends on a daily basis. It’s what I do. Any advice is based on first hand knowledge of the market and the economic times in which we live. If you listen to any debate between economists or market insiders there will always be worthwhile arguments on both sides of the bull/bear market spectrum. One persons opposite view to mine is not wrong or right if it’s sincerely held and not done simply to promote their own market interests.
Investment decisions in any market is not a science it’s based on many factors, usually years of experience and knowledge of how things work. Together with quantified guess work on how markets may perform in the future and projected returns.
When investing in a market such as Spanish property it tends to become an individuals emotional choice and not based on sound business sense. That’s when things usually go badly wrong.
The poster here asked for advice on the basis of 5-6 weeks usage per year. In fact he had far wider intentions than that which makes the advice somewhat different.
That’s my point really. It makes no sense to buy a property for limited use for short holidays, hoping you will rent for the remainder of the summer months to pay for it. Extended use and family use can make it worthwhile in some circumstances.
However it is not a sound investment decision, it’s an emotional one. Just be aware of that. -
I think the advice you give is very valid logan but of course you are looking at it from a purely economic view.I would use my place for probably 10 weeks of the year with a couple of weekends aswell. In the area i am looking at most villas are already booked for next summer renting it out wouldn’t be a problem although not something i would do.My mum and my inlaws would also use it as would any one of my 3 sisters or my wifes 2 brothers.It seems like a good thing to do for me even thou probably not a sound financial choice,having read what you and so many others have written and that together with my own research have decided to wait awhile longer as i work hard and long hours for my money and although not an investment for me but a lifestyle choice i wouldn’t want to spend more than i have to and even when i do put in the offer to purchase you can be sure i will be haggling.It will also need to be the right place as i intend retiring to it in the future.I am sure if i buy in 2 years time prices will have gone down but also that if i wait 20years till i am ready to retire there will probably be another crash either on the cards or in mid flight.
-
I think the ideal is to invest in property for both financial reasons or as a life style choice without risk to that capital or burdening yourself with future unseen costs you cannot afford.
In order to achieve that you need to make the investment at the right time, right price and place and in a market that is stable so you can predict with reasonable certainty the outcome.
Currently in Spain,IMO none of these conditions exists. So Dartboy you have made the right choice. Your life style can still be enjoyed by renting someone else’s financial burden.
-
logan you have logical views on it.
If one buys for life style reasons it’s also very important that it doesn’t become a tough economic burden since it will destroy whatever fun you can have from it.
Buying something for 10-30k and enjoying it with a risk of loosing half of it is not such a bad thing but when you buy something for 200k and saddle the family with debt it will give you so many problems down the road. The cheaper alternative will still be burdened by high % wise transaction costs so it’s not like it matters that much when the value of that property goes down 50% more.
What I’m trying to say is that it makes more sense to buy cheap property in this current market situation if you intend to use it for a long time.
-
-
-
-
-
When it comes to buying Spanish property in these difficult times, the obvious advice is not to, at this time. But life isn’t like that for most people, it is not all work and saving money for a rainy day, endlessly shifting your money around to get the best deal, or shopping at Lidl to get a few pence off the price of bananas.
If you can afford that villa in the mountains of Javea, go for it. You will lose money if you need to resell in the short term, but just to hear the pine trees whispering to you when you open your doors in the morning is worth every lost penny.
Can you put a price on the pleasure of watching a fishing fleet limp into the harbour at sunset followed by swirling seagulls? Or buying a car with a five-litre engine that you know you can’t really afford?
I remember walking along a Spanish beach from where I could see the Rif mountains in the distance. When I got home I started packing. My Spanish purchases didn’t make any sense whatsoever and nearly floored me, but I’ve had a smile on my face ever since.
-
@Ardun wrote:
Congrats! Enjoy your new home. Tell us the details how you handled it.
Basically I went in very low and stuck to my guns. Don’t want to go into too much detail until contracts are signed. There are some real bargains out there.
@Rocker wrote:
When it comes to buying Spanish property in these difficult times, the obvious advice is not to, at this time. But life isn’t like that for most people, it is not all work and saving money for a rainy day, endlessly shifting your money around to get the best deal, or shopping at Lidl to get a few pence off the price of bananas.
If you can afford that villa in the mountains of Javea, go for it. You will lose money if you need to resell in the short term, but just to hear the pine trees whispering to you when you open your doors in the morning is worth every lost penny.
Can you put a price on the pleasure of watching a fishing fleet limp into the harbour at sunset followed by swirling seagulls? Or buying a car with a five-litre engine that you know you can’t really afford?
I remember walking along a Spanish beach from where I could see the Rif mountains in the distance. When I got home I started packing. My Spanish purchases didn’t make any sense whatsoever and nearly floored me, but I’ve had a smile on my face ever since.
Cheers Rocker 😀
-
-
-
Well – this is within my pricerange – and looks fine from the outside. Any views or do and don’ts?
Best wishes Bolette -
-
-
-
@bolett4 wrote:
Well – this is within my pricerange – and looks fine from the outside. Any views or do and don’ts?
Best wishes Bolettemy thoughts.
My personal feeling is that it is overpriced because of the following:no outside space except communal roof terrace (assuming it is as apt is on first floor and terrace on roof).
no views to speak of.
based on photos, limited public parking parking.
12 km inland, expect cold winters
property receives little sun, not much help in summer, disadvantage in winter.
location in relation to the town looks good, near main street. so what shops/etc… should be nearby. Probably make it even harder to park.
ground floors and 1st floors tend to be less popular
if 3 bedroom, should have 2 bathrooms
1 of the bedrooms is only going to be a single room (possibly 2 of them)
could be quite noisy.
If on the side street, expect the neighbouring building to be about 3 metres away.But I do not know what prices are like there, this could be an outstanding bargain, based on sales prices of the area.
-
This is another flat that has me interested – but! Should i be worried?
The flat is on offer in fotocasa.es, but the whole house is for sale on idealista.eshttp://www.idealista.com/inmueble/2251076/
I am so confused 😉
-
@bolett4 wrote:
This is another flat that has me interested – but! Should i be worried?
The flat is on offer in fotocasa.es, but the whole house is for sale on idealista.eshttp://www.idealista.com/inmueble/2251076/
I am so confused 😉
The idealista advert is flagged as being over 6 months since the last update. So it looks like they’ve given up on the idea of selling the whole thing and are now trying to sell the flats separately, but haven’t bothered to remove the original advert from idealista.
-
-
@bolett4 wrote:
Does that meen that it is a rental now? Am absolutely no expert in these matters 🙁 What consequences could this have regarding monthly expenses? I meen if the rest of the house are renters?
Thank you all for all the advise and knowledge 🙂
It doesn’t necessarily mean it’s a rental – the rest of the building might be vacant, for sale, sold to other people, or they might have decided to live in it themselves and only sell off the top part. Who knows? You’ll need to contact them to find out. Either way, somebody owns the rest of the building and, regardless of whether they are renting out other flats or not, they will be responsible for paying their share of the building expenses. Again you’ll need to contact them to get the details.
-
@Chopera, whilst I agre with your posting as to what the real situation could be. However the reality if the building is owned by a company or a non corprate identity they may not pay their share of the “gastos de communidad” a big problem in the current climate.
I have seen whole blocks have been ignored and as a result are getting into early stages of neglect. Of course the asking prices had not been reduced and if some poor sod buys. He or she at a later stage need to pay for the cost associated to bring to standard this could be in 000’s.
Responsibilty in Spain means, I do not have to do or take the comsequences !!!!!
-
- The forum ‘Property Questions & Answers’ is closed to new topics and replies.
