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The Spanish government on July 9, announced that any EU citizen living in Spain for more than three months must prove they will not become a financial burden on the State by producing a job contract or documents confirming they have enough money to support themselves.
If they are jobless, they must also show they are covered by health insurance. The decree, which potentially affects thousands of Britons seeking a new life in the country, declares that Spain will now adopt a stricter interpretation of the ‘free movement’ principle.
The Spanish government has justified the measures by pointing to Article 7 of the 2004 EU directive on free movement, which gives EU member states the power to define it ‘without prejudice to national border controls’ – in other words, entry conditions can be imposed on other EU citizens by member governments.
You cannot any longer rely on the EHIC card for state medicare.
Madrid hopes to save more than €1 billion euros (£780 million) a year by clamping down on ‘economic migrants’ from other EU countries, including the UK.
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In practice how is this new ‘decree’ going to be policed I ask myself? Most people simply stay as tourists, work on the black, drive around in UK plated and un-taxed cars, claim UK benefits and don’t register for anything. If they get sick they use the EHIC system.
As always these laws seem to be more ‘honored in the breach than the observance’.
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Someone has told me this measure may just be an attempt to stop nervous Guiris creating a bank run every time someone tweets negative stuff about the banks… Not sure it would work, but I suppose if you had produced evidence of x amount in the bank to support your residency claim in Spain, you’d be less inclined to take it out and put it back in RBS or Barclays?
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“As always these laws seem to be more ‘honored in the breach than the observance’.
This is what happens if laws are passed without understanding the socio economics needs of a Country and with no desire or the tools to implement the laws. As a result laws are flouted with disdain.
The current situation in Spain in all its aspects is a good example.
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To be very honest even the experienced Government could do little. all the calls are from EU. Besides the Government should be relying on the Civil service to guide them.
The civil service machinery have experienced people and in theory they do not have political affiliation.
I tell my Spanish friends of all colour that this is a fantastic opportunity for Spain to modernise the Spanish economy and all that affects it. …. and blame all & sundry on EU.
Starting with labour laws, unions, office working hours, effeciency. -
I note the EHIC is not now to be relied upon. However if you are over 65 you are entitled to cover under the treaties if in receipt of a UK State Pension. An S1 is apparently required but it has not been the usual course to ask the Pensions office in UK for certificate for UK paymenrt for medical treatment in Spain where the residency is not permanent.I am there in excess of 3 months regularly in winter but I spend more than 183 days in UK Indeed by requesting such documentation you deprive yourself of treatment as a UK resident when you are back in UK.
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Now with the new regulations you are supposed to register at a registration centre or with police and you are placed in a Register of Foreigners. So we are foreigners even in the EU now. But it was always the ‘rule’ that you registered with the police after 3 months to pay 15 euros and get a temporary residence permit but not everybody did this. Has anything much changed ?
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But if you have a property there and you have paid your IBI and your non resident tax and have receipts you have a copy of your State Pension notification have health insurance and you are there for 5 months -what if you just decide to forget about registering as I feel inclined to ? You are an EU citizen and will they be interested ? They are after people who go there and work in the black economy and people who go there and claim food parcels from the social security surely.But perhaps its better to register if you rely on the European Health Card and have no private insurance as registering I think gives you entitlement to a Spanish Doctor and hospital services ?
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@Ptr wrote:
But if you have a property there and you have paid your IBI and your non resident tax and have receipts you have a copy of your State Pension notification have health insurance and you are there for 5 months -what if you just decide to forget about registering as I feel inclined to ? You are an EU citizen and will they be interested ? They are after people who go there and work in the black economy and people who go there and claim food parcels from the social security surely.But perhaps its better to register if you rely on the European Health Card and have no private insurance as registering I think gives you entitlement to a Spanish Doctor and hospital services ?
If you are talking about working age people, there is no free health care unless they are paying into the system.
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No fern -I simply meant that if you stay longer than 3 months and intend to leave before 6 months you have paid your IBI for your property and your non residente annual tax should the Spanish State not be satisfied with that and leave you alone ? Indeed I think they should because they know if you overstay 6 months they can catch you for a Tax Return and I think REPRESENTATIONS SHOULD BE MADE that on production of receipts for current personal and property taxes paid they take no further action.
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@fern999 wrote:
@Ptr wrote:
If you are talking about working age people, there is no free health care unless they are paying into the system.
Unfortunately you are all mixing up two completely separate subjects.
Let’s start with healthcare. Spanish law was changed , due to EU enforcement , before this lot were elected. Zappy introduced the new healthcare which made available healthcare for all legal residents, whether spanish nationals or legally resident foreigners . This was signed in to law in january of this year by Rajoy. This entitles anyone who is living here to healthcare , subject to some conditions , regardless of whether they are employed , unemployed, under retiring age , etc.
Rajoy had no choice in legalising this new law but it was soon realised that measures needed to be put in place to prevent overloading of the system. The first new laws were laughable , to say the least, & in the main totally illegal . Eventually it resulted in the new updated legislation of 24th April for new residency applications.
The april 24th legislation does not apply in any way to foreigners registered legally before that date. they are all entitled to full healthcare , subject to some conditions , the main one being amount of income.
Regardless of the above all UK citizens , even under retiring age, are entitled to healthcare under the ‘ bi-lateral ‘ agreement & Spanish law & which is still in force & states that any citizen ” Not entitled to healthcare in his natural country or any other country is entitled to healthcare in his country of residence”.
The Uk , or any other EU state , will supply what is known as a ” Letter of legislation ” in whatever EU language is required , stating that you are “not entitled to health care in that country , nor are in receipt of a pension or any benefits”.
With this letter all you need in addition is your residents cert; copy of marriage cert( in english ) , & a completed application form , the same one that is used by anyone unemployed & not in receipt of benefits.Anyone Who was not a resident before the 24th April has to comply with the new residency requirements & has no entitlement to healthcare.
In many areas the only ‘ income ‘ requirement for obtaining residency is the sum of 5k deposited in an account.
In other areas they won’t allow any ‘beneficiaries ‘ to be added . I.E . wife, children etc; even though children under 18 have the right to full healthcare regardless of anything. This is mainly occuring in Andalucia where all possible obstacles are being put in place of anyone attempting to register.
@Ptr wrote:Now with the new regulations you are supposed to register at a registration centre or with police and you are placed in a Register of Foreigners. So we are foreigners even in the EU now. But it was always the ‘rule’ that you registered with the police after 3 months to pay 15 euros and get a temporary residence permit but not everybody did this. Has anything much changed ?
No,as an EU citizen you are registered on the EU citizens register. The foreigners register is only for non-EU nationals. Unfortunately when they write about anything it is always written as foreigners register , when in fact it isn’t.
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Hi,gus
I was very interested in the final sentence in your very interesting post,in relation to the Registro Central de Extranjeros and EU citizens
The Spanish government website interior.gob.es/extranjeria defines an” extranjero” as follows in bold type :
“Se considera extranjero..a aquel que carezca de la nacionalidad espanola” (An individual who does not have spanish nationality is regarded as a foreigner)
In relation to applications by EU citizens for registration on the Register the website states:
“los interesados estaran obligados a solicitar personalmente ante la Oficina de Extranjeros de la provincia donde pretendan permanecer o fijar su residencia..su inscripcion en el Registro Central de Extranjeros” (Applicants to apply in person to foreigners office in the province in which they intend to stay or live for registration on Registro Central de Extranjeros)
The certificate when granted is headed Certificado de Inscripcion en el Registro Central de Extranjeros(as a comunitario)
A NIE number is now supplied with certificates,if not already obtained and of course this stands for Numero de Identidad de Extranjero
Of course a register of EU citizens will be kept separately from any others,who apply on different forms and to whom different provisions apply,but taking the languge used by the Spanish authorities into account it appears reasonable to me to describe the registration process as an application for registration on the Registro Central de Extranjeros.The Spanish make no bones about it,we EU citizens are foreigners-,foreigners with significant rights which they may have to acknowledge,grudgingly,belatedly,patchily,but foreigners,al fin y al cabo! -
” The certificate when granted is headed Certificado de Inscripcion en el Registro Central de Extranjeros(as a comunitario) “
The certificate for EU citizens is headed ” Certificado de Registro de Ciudadano de La Union ” .Farther down it does also state that the enscription is also recorded on the Local central foreigners register though ! 😆
An EU reply, some months back, stated that in reply to some simple questions that they were at first amused then amazed that know one from the Spanish ministry could give the same answers!
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It suggests particularly as the Spanish have only grudgingly given EU citizens equal rights with Nationals in matters of taxation -if UK were to exit EU we would experience some very discriminatory taxes ie CGT on sales by no residente owners. I noticed the Spanish have already warned Scotland about their EU status if they leave the UK.
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