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@scottbella wrote:
has anybody else in this forum involved with martinsa fadesa there is about 12,000 people affected by there collapse .i would like to chat to them ❓
😳 i am one ofthe 12,000 people i was wondering what the other people who have been caught up in this fiasco were thinking of the chance of getting any money back?????????
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Scotts bella. If it helps, two of my friends are involved with Matrinsa Fadesa.
The first one in Marbella, where the block is ready and in some cases the units are complete & lived in. All are without the FLO. The utilities are provided by Martinsa Fadesa, I sure that soon to be disconnected as administrtors of companies are not known for the generosity. Martinsa Fadesa had offered an incentive of €3000, to complete without the FLO.
I had advised my friend against it. My friends solicitor has advised him to not to worry as his property is complete & the administrator can convert his unit in cash for distribution to the creditors.
Second friend of mine is in a similar situation at Costa Esuri. His solicitor has advised him the same. The two solicitors are different.
I hope it helps.
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thanks for your reply but i am sorry i dont know what flo is? our property is completly finished but there has been problems with golf course license but has now been granted we were due to sign in oct.would you give me your opinion would you go on creditors list or complete on the property it is in fuerteventura i am at a loss what to do????
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Have a read of the articles in this section. Might give you a better idea of your options.
http://www.spanishpropertyinsight.com/buff/?cat=69
Mark
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@scottbella wrote:
has anybody else in this forum involved with martinsa fadesa there is about 12,000 people affected by there collapse .i would like to chat to them ❓
Hi Scottbella
We are one of the 12500 people affected by the collapse of MF. Things don’t look good – we stand to lose about 60,000 euros. Our property is on the Costa Esuri complex – it is finished but a poor quality – we were trying to get it exchanged when all this happened. It did not have any electricity until last month. Not sure if it has a LFO. Cannot get any straight answer from the solicitor. We have been trying to get sight of the so called bank guarantee our solicitor says we have but it is an untruth or I am sure he would have provided it. Very difficult to get any honesty from anyone it seems. Our solicitor has registered our claims and to do so is very costly. If we have no chance of recovering our money or getting a property at the end of it then I would rather just walk away and not spend any more . Sadly it will mean an end to our hopes of ever having anywhere in Spain. I feel we have been deceived.
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thanks for your post.we have been waiting since nov 05 for them to release our property which is totally finished but they have said there was lots of problems with golf course license, water,bones,yes bones and other things . like you we have had all our dreams shatered by fadesa we have no written bank gaurentee we were told that it is law in spain but they never gave us it in writing i have asked for it but never recieved one.we are in the process of informing courts have you appointed a person to represent you in court with a power of attorny ? our lawyer is getting back to me on tuesday with cost. hopefully i will know more then. this web site has been very good i found more info on here than anywere else (thanks mark)
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@scottbella wrote:
have you appointed a person to represent you in court with a power of attorny ? our lawyer is getting back to me on tuesday with cost.
Hi Scott
As we thought we would only have a couple of weeks to get our claim in we have left the authority with our current solicitor even though they had failed to ensure we had a completion date written on our contract and don’t seem to be able to show evidence of a bank guarantee. Problem is we thought it would be really difficult to get all the paperwork together – from the solicitor and get another solicitor on board by the 30th September given we did not know about it until quite late. We have never had a word from Martinsa Fadesa even thought they were supposed to contact all clients. Now of course the deadline has been extended but we have made a commitment and returned all our receipts to the solicitor.The cost to register with our solicitor is 1500 euros but what I have discovered is that the cost of the barrister in A Coruna is a further and more substantial cost – it is likely to be a set fee if unsuccessful but if successful it could be as much as 5% or more of what you have yet to pay.
Our place is built too but in fact we had been trying to change it for about a year – as the cashflow of MF diminished so did the quality of the build so we did not feel it matched our expectations – it certainly did not match earlier builds. When we first bought we were not shown any of the vacant houses on the completed blocks – only told this was what to expect – we were only able to choose from this one – we were told earlier blocks were sold which as we now know was an untruth. So we have been trying to exchange for the best part of a year – even got shown around by MF staff but that was it – got no further. Decided in the end that they did not want our money. There are now lots of resales on the various sites and we could buy similar now for about 10k euros more than the cost of the balance we had to pay (forget about the deposits). Alomost worth walking away for the hassel – just buy fresh! Trouble is the sites are building sites and that will take a long time to change. Prices may come down even more although it won’t compensate for the lost money on the exchange rate. If we had completed when we should it was nearer 1.50!
Anyway we are doing nothing for now – out in late October to try and find out more but I am not hopeful.
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The cost to register with our solicitor is 1500 euros but what I have discovered is that the cost of the barrister in A Coruna is a further and more substantial cost – it is likely to be a set fee if unsuccessful but if successful it could be as much as 5% or more of what you have yet to pay.
A Barrister in the Spanish Courts is not what a Barrister is in the UK. They are tantamount to “paper shufflers” They just get the correct papers to the correct people at the appropriate time. You have to pay for them though. Do you mean by Barrister, a Litigation Lawyer?
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@Claire wrote:
The cost to register with our solicitor is 1500 euros but what I have discovered is that the cost of the barrister in A Coruna is a further and more substantial cost – it is likely to be a set fee if unsuccessful but if successful it could be as much as 5% or more of what you have yet to pay.
A Barrister in the Spanish Courts is not what a Barrister is in the UK. They are tantamount to “paper shufflers” They just get the correct papers to the correct people at the appropriate time. You have to pay for them though. Do you mean by Barrister, a Litigation Lawyer?
I was told it was a barrister – someone who represents you in court – locally based. Not really sure what they do for the money
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Scottbella: If, I was you I would send the details personally. Stating in the letter that your lawyer ( giving his/her name & address ) is not capable or cannot meet the dead line of the 25th October 08.
Once, you have sent it personally, try and send the lawyer one ASAP. I think in a situation like this any notification to the administrator is better than no notification.
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@scottbella wrote:
lawyer not keen to take up the court case with mf still not sent us details for what she needs to register to the court time ticking on any suggestions???what about sending details myself got the form off the webb page and contacted them . do you really need lawyer ??
😳 its a mine field 😳Scott – you should at least register yourself. The documentation can be sent by registered post. The letter has to be written in Spanish. The main disadvantage is that all future correspondence will be maintained in Spanish which will prove complicated if you do not speak the language. Also I was told that by not appointing a lawyer in the procedure you will lose the right to vote in the decisions taken. It was not recommended it but is definitely better than not doing anything at all.
The following are needed I think: original contracts, bank guarantees (if applicable), bank transfer orders and receipts for any payments made towards the construction of your property. I was told you have to indicate in writing in a covering letter how much you have paid in total to the developer to avoid any misunderstandings or payments being ignored.We just felt we could not do all of this ourselves and our Spanish is much too basic.
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Spoke to someone from MF today about exchanging – she seemed surprised at our problems – said they were completing on lots of properties now. As what we have left to pay would not really buy what we want I still think we would be happy to complete if we could get the right property and even better if there is some discount. Better than waiting and paying for something we might not get. She said she would look into it for us. Money is all in Santander – how safe is that bank – do I need to spread the load? ❓
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Typical of Fadesa. Non one knows what is happening. Why are these so called managers not called to Madrid from their respective Countries/offices & be told what is the state of play in a given set of circumstances.
Caution should be applied in the absence of an LFO, e.g in Marbella. no completion should take place even if pressured by the administrators as in the absence of LFO, the particular property will be probably worth less than most people would have to Fadesa as stage payments.
Talking about Administrators. It curious that Fadesa bought the Campos de Guadelmina parcela from the Administrators of KIO. ( Kuwait investment office) and they will now be having fire sale themselves. Isn’t life wonderful.
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been in touch with lawyer today she is now going to take up our case and fill in all necessary paper work.feel happy that things are moving forward.are you sure mf are telling the truth they have only told us untruth after untruth for the last 3 years.i was told on the day they went bust that we would sign for certain in oct so i went and booked the flights with xl then they went bust.dont know about the banks but lets hope they are telling the truth that there is no problem with there banks.
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Scotbella. Pleased that things are moving. Don’t sit back keep the pressure on your lawyer.
In so far as truth is concerned. I think the truth lies some where in between. i.e. some of it that Fadesa is lying and others don’t know what is happening. Welcome to Spain, even though you are not there yet thanks to XL.
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@scottbella wrote:
thanks shakeel i will take your advice and keep on to lawyer
Had some paperwork in Spanish at the weekend from Fadesa – think it is to do with registering our credit. It was all in Spanish of course. I had thought our solicitor was doing all of this so have emailled him – tried calling but only got an answer phone. Always seems to be th ewrong time. I don’t know whether they have sent these forms out just to those who have yet to register or to everyone. If just those to register then it would appear our claim has not been registered.
With regard to the apartments I understand they all have LFO in Costa Esuri but of course cannot confirm as I have not seen them. But all the blocks are completed now – at least the ones MF own. However electricty has only recently been connected to some so don’t know if that is significant.
Scott I think we have to keep the pressure up but Shakeel you are right – get used to Spanish ways if you want to live there. I must admit I am finding it hard. Friends who spend time there and speak the language say direct language and banging on the table are the only ways to get the message across. Never thought of myself as too polite!
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@CES wrote:
Had some paperwork in Spanish at the weekend from Fadesa – think it is to do with registering our credit. It was all in Spanish of course. I had thought our solicitor was doing all of this so have emailled him – tried calling but only got an answer phone. Always seems to be th ewrong time.
That’ll be because yesterday was a bank holiday across Spain! Keep an eye on the holiday dates here and then you won’t take it personally 😉
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The uncertainty that is created by the so called professionals in this instance I am talking about the the lawyers.
I begrudge dealing with them for reasons:
1) Paying the ridiculous 1% of the purchase price to the lawyers. The works involved in buying a property costing €200k or €2,000k is the same, generally speaking.
2) The necessary works are invariably not carried out or not carried out fully & comprehensively. The forum is full of incidences of such nature.
3) Dead lines are not met,
4) Conflict of interest.
5) Absence of communications, including matters that are critical & where the client is nervous/stressed about.
6) The client, ends up monitoring and making sure that the lawyer is up to date and in monitoring the progress or lack of it.
7)Fraud & theft.
8) No come back for negligence etc.
Keeping, the above in mind I might as well give the 1% purchase price to charity or help a fellow member, who I share the planet with.
It is for reasons above that I am not in favour of handing a power of attorney and suggested to Scottbella to not to assume that all is in order just because the lawyer is onto the case.
Over, the years I have bought & sold off plan in Spain and have never used a lawyer for reasons above. However if one is buying a Cortijo, land etc. Than it is vital to have legal assistance due to boundary disputes, family distributions rights, illegal builds, etc.
Sadly, the colegio de abagados/legal profession is not serving its profession & the image of its country.
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we got paper work from mf on saturday it was the form on the web page of mf and the letter was all in spanish as usual from what we could make out it was telling you to fill in the form and send it to courts by the 25th oct. faxed it to the lawyer will ring tomorrow to check it out. the mf agent is still on the payroll we think things might be ready to move on our why would they keep paying him??
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“why would they keep paying him?? “
Scottbella: I can see how & why you are drawing the conclusion that you have done. Its completely understandable in the absence of concrete information, uncertainty, whilst trying to think rationally in a commercial sense.
The Spanish commercial rational is totally opposite to UK/Anglo Saxon. The staff could be there for many a unidentified role /function. He or she could be related to the Mayor & MF don’t want to sack him/her as MF needs favours in the future.
I hope that I am wrong for your sake. All I am trying to say is that reading in between the lines in Spain is a futile exercise.
Remember : Spain is different.
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scottbella wrote:i still cannot get it in my head that spain is different.you are right lack of information keeps making me grasp at staws but i am trying to think possitive about the mf situation but after all this time i need to face facts :oops:[/quote
Yes I agree Scott. You tend to think professionals such as lawyers are going to be straight wherever they are. I can’t get over that MF seems keen to help us complete (we are trying to get an exchange) but our solicitor only wants to register us as a creditor. Is ignoring all our questions about a completion. Just don’t know why.
Carol
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scottbella
the lack of what we see as logic and common sense in Spain really caught me out as well. Assuming like we do in the UK, that someone you are paying to work on your behalf is doing that, or that if you have a black and white case in your favour you will get justice, can be a big mistake.
This plays straight in to the hands of the bad guys, as so many areas are grey instead of being black and white if common sense (not corruption)was applied.
They really often do play with a different set of rules that make a mockery all we are grown up to believe is obviously right/wrong. Other times it’s as you might expect?, and you certainly can’t take consistantcy on that for granted!
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@scottbella wrote:
are mf in the possition to let you complete now i thought it was out of there hands,or are they up to the usual lies and more lies??
Hi Scott
I have been in touch with a member of MF team in London who has helped me get in touch with MF staff in Spain. We are still pushing for an exchange. All the apartments are completed on Costa Esuri – there is no logical reason for them not getting people to complete – it is cash in the coffers – i just have not been able to fathom it out. Anyway we are going out to look again – we won’t complete on our original choice as it is poor quality. I have no way of knowing whether it is better luck this time.
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