October 16, 2007 at 8:40 pm #53410katyBlocked
2000 people demonstrated last night in marbella against the new PGOU. Many were protesting against the plan to make developers (or owners) pay compensation to the town hall to legalise their properties. I suppose the spanish know as we know that the developers will not pay up and the owners will be left holding the baby…ie. the charge against their property!
October 17, 2007 at 8:26 am #75680
If the developers do not hand over land or pay compensation to the Town Hall, then these illegal properties will not get the LFO. If the owners have to pay a charge then I guess that this is when those who went ahead and completed will be in real trouble. Losing a deposit for non completion maybe a better option in the long term after all.
October 17, 2007 at 10:12 am #75682
Trouble is Claire ,that depending on different contracts,some people will have paid 70% which is a lot of money to loose. It is not an easy sitiuation.On one hand if you don´t complete and the developer goes bancrupt, you stand to loose your deposit, if you do complete at least you have a fair chance that it will be o.k in the end. This depends of course on the development and what irregularities there are.Taking the developer to court also seem iffy since the judges are so different in their opinions as we well know.
October 17, 2007 at 10:53 am #75685InezParticipant
Worse still are the owners who have owned for years.
Really it cant happen and it wont – the european courts would not allow it, but the big problem is at the moment you cant sell any of these proeprties with this hanging over peoples heads!
And this will only increase bankruptcies as if you cant afford to pay the mortgage, you would try to sell it, but now, impossible to sell, so whats the option!
October 17, 2007 at 1:16 pm #75689katyBlocked
The PP (Town Hall) have come out on side of the citizens and said that the junta should compensate for the illegalities!!. Think they have lost sight of the point somewhere. Any “compensation” should be paid by the corrupt developers and councillors.
All this paying to have properties legalised is just what has been happening for years. If this happens the same will happen if/when there is another property boom…what happened to all the demolitions 😕
Inez, you say the EU wouldn’t let it happen, it didn’t stop the land grab or the people on estepona golf getting charges on their properties.
October 17, 2007 at 4:20 pm #75694InezParticipant
I think its because the town hall coffers are empty so the lure of compensation is irresistable.
Also the Junta and the PP are oposing political parties, the Junta want a more hardline approach, the PP are on the side of the owners of course.
And as usual its the innocents who have to clear up the mess.
I know what youre saying Katy, but the land grab was a loophole in an existing law and the infrastructure issue in Estepona was at least benefitting the owners with something, to have a cahrge of 20-40k levied on your property when you have already bought it and paid for it once INCLUDING the taxes to the town hall who are there to ensure it is legal, is ludicrous!
October 17, 2007 at 6:32 pm #75695
Trouble is Claire ,that depending on different contracts,some people will have paid 70% which is a lot of money to loose.
It sure is Laggen!! 😯 I was thinking more of the 30-70% split, which most people seemed to take. (that I know of anyway). I know there were other split options available. If 70% of the purchase price was at stake, then that would take some serious thinking about.
October 17, 2007 at 8:03 pm #75696
If this levy is charged to each property that someone has not completed on how will this effect the valuation for mortgage purposes.
Also this is effectively a charge on the property will this also not make it a little more difficult to sell and in some cases it would mean negative equity
Now I have heard the phrase stop digging but if this government,council are seriuos about bringing any confidence back into the market they should really think about this one as this could be a real timebomb for the media and the property market in Spain.
October 17, 2007 at 8:15 pm #75697
Very interesting point Frank. This levy or ‘penalty charge’ will probably, in some cases, be passed onto the wrong people, ie the innocent buyers. If these ones do manage to add it to their mortgages ( ❓ ) imagine the interest they’ll be paying on top, in the long term ❗ Sounds like a ‘resolution’ which could cause even more problems for the innocent.
October 17, 2007 at 8:31 pm #75698
Well it’s reassuring to know “You can’t go wrong with good ol’ bricks and mortar”
October 17, 2007 at 8:50 pm #75699
Now why do I have the feeling that the banks may not be to interested bringing in this non tangible figure into a mortgage valuation now that the market has slowed and credit is much harder to obtain. 😕
For someone to be able to sell they may have to pay cash for the privilage of gaining legal status as a reward for corruption by the council allowed it to happen. 😕
We then have the situation that if they are granted legal status as has been proved this can be revoked at a later date. 😕
One thing is for sure is that some with just 20 or 30 % deposits will push them over the top, cut their losses and run. 😥
Now why do I have the opinion that we are expected to be allowed to be taken for another ride here.
October 17, 2007 at 9:20 pm #75700
I’ve just erased what I was going to post, as the more you think about it, there are just so many variables; if the developer files for bancrupcy; if he doesn’t but refuses to pay the levies; if the bank takes over the property etc etc etc. It seems to be getting even more complicated each day.
I just hope that enough people put up a HUGE fight rather than deciding to walk/run away, losing their deposits – whatever percentage these may be.
The Demonstration on Monday is just the start of this – hopefully ❗
October 17, 2007 at 11:27 pm #75702
The agents who sold these illegal buildings to unwary purchasers via their ‘recommended’ lawyers, of whom many complaints have been made to the Colegio, should also be made to contribute to these levies/be penalised.
To sell these properties the developers have had to work closely with some agents who’ve made millions in commission, not to mention their lawyers who we now know were undoubtedly aware of the illegality at the time. This complete ‘Triangle’ is culpable.
The one lame excuse I keep hearing; “We sold in good faith”, is unacceptable…..IMO ❗
October 18, 2007 at 6:34 am #75703
Well Suzanne, believe it or not there are still prestigious Marbella real estate agencies who are allegedly selling properties with rulings to be partially demolished according to a local newspaper (which cannot be appealed as they are definitive) so the question is not “if” it’s “when”.
I’ve seen compensations run as high as 100.000 Euros approximately set against each property of an illegal set of houses that will be a charge placed against them at the Land Registry.
But on average they appear to be much lower, anything ranging from 3.000 Euros per property to 40-50.000 Euros. All these numbers are just estimates of the price of the land that has to be bought between all neighbours and then handed over to the town hall.
Let’s see if the Junta leaves the ball on the Town Halls side. The obvious thing to do would be to sell the over two billion euros in assets seized in operation Malaya and with that money compensate Marbella Town Hall purchasing plots and green areas. The problem is that it would take such a long time and they need to solve this sooner.
October 18, 2007 at 7:36 am #75704
there are still prestigious Marbella real estate agencies who are allegedly selling properties with rulings to be partially demolished.
Well, so much for the “we sold in good faith” thingy. 😆
October 18, 2007 at 7:46 am #75705
Yes Drakan, I can believe it, but it’s astounding 😕
Many thanks for the informative link. Another article linked to this in part states (translated):
‘According to the public prosecutor, Roca received more than 30 million euros in bribes on the part of promoters building in Marbella, of which remains 25 million, and only 5 million destined to pay to the council.’END
Am wondering why there aren’t more promoters in jail too, rather than still being out on bail.
Wondering too what further problems will emerge if innocent owners of these illegal properties have to take out loans from Spanish banks to compensate the Town Hall.
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