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Another major under arrest between 20 more.
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It must be a fantastic job being a Mayor in Spain, a licence to receive back-handers as with just about any aspect it seems of Spanish Property transactions whether it’s an agent (not tarring all), Developer, Lawyer, Notary, Uncle Tom Cobbly and all.
There are some who don’t like us posting on here because we highlight such corruption, they also think it happens just the same in the UK, which of course it doesn’t. Only in Spain does it happen in such vast numbers.
The Spanish Gov’t? wouldn’t trust them with a bargepole, they do nada about corruption! Maybe they are corrupt to!
Spanish property is in freefall, it will remain so all the time their Gov’t doesn’t weed out the crooks.
Buy in Spain? BUYER BEWARE! Who/where do you go to for honest advice?
No doubt the usual people will say that it happens in this place and that but ‘IT DOESN’T IN SUCH VOLUME’! 🙄
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It must be a fantastic job being a Mayor in Spain, a licence to receive back-handers as with just about any aspect it seems of Spanish Property transactions whether it’s an agent (not tarring all), Developer, Lawyer, Notary, Uncle Tom Cobbly and all.
There are some who don’t like us posting on here because we highlight such corruption, they also think it happens just the same in the UK, which of course it doesn’t. Only in Spain does it happen in such vast numbers.
The Spanish Gov’t? wouldn’t trust them with a bargepole, they do nada about corruption! Maybe they are corrupt to!
Spanish property is in freefall, it will remain so all the time their Gov’t doesn’t weed out the crooks.
Buy in Spain? BUYER BEWARE! Who/where do you go to for honest advice?
No doubt the usual people will say that it happens in this place and that but ‘IT DOESN’T IN SUCH VOLUME’! 🙄
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Charges are reported to be influence peddling, perversion of the course of justice and money laundering. The illegal collection of commissions in exchange for the granting of works licences is thought to be at the centre of the allegations.
Article in English: http://www.typicallyspanish.com/news/publish/article_17002.shtml
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Charges are reported to be influence peddling, perversion of the course of justice and money laundering. The illegal collection of commissions in exchange for the granting of works licences is thought to be at the centre of the allegations.
Article in English: http://www.typicallyspanish.com/news/publish/article_17002.shtml
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Things are bad on the Costa del Sol… no they’re not…
http://www.theentertaineronline.com/news.php?item.473.5 -
Things are bad on the Costa del Sol… no they’re not…
http://www.theentertaineronline.com/news.php?item.473.5 -
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Re. the ‘Leading Property Agents’ Association:
Their spokesman, Ian Bateman, says that ‘Recently, news of possible demolitions, frauds and other similar stories to do with urban corruption have appeared in the foreign press.
This has created alarm – in many cases without basis in fact – in the Costa del Sol market’.Think he should be confronted to name some of these cases then that had no basis.
When will the BS end ❓ 🙁 -
Re. the ‘Leading Property Agents’ Association:
Their spokesman, Ian Bateman, says that ‘Recently, news of possible demolitions, frauds and other similar stories to do with urban corruption have appeared in the foreign press.
This has created alarm – in many cases without basis in fact – in the Costa del Sol market’.Think he should be confronted to name some of these cases then that had no basis.
When will the BS end ❓ 🙁 -
Charlie, you’re so right about the B— S–t on the Costas, it’s so strong it can now be smelt all along the coast. Have just emailed Bateman about his ‘waccy baccy’ statement, be interesting to see if he posts here to justify it. Laugh I almost cried! 😆
Beware many agents on the Costas just telling a fat load of porkies! 😉
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Charlie, you’re so right about the B— S–t on the Costas, it’s so strong it can now be smelt all along the coast. Have just emailed Bateman about his ‘waccy baccy’ statement, be interesting to see if he posts here to justify it. Laugh I almost cried! 😆
Beware many agents on the Costas just telling a fat load of porkies! 😉
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to be fair to the agents and developers speaking twaddle…..you have to remember that they have been conditioned to be that way. After doing it for so long it must be difficult to change.
Only the other day the BBC interviewed an estate agent who expected UK house prices to ‘pick up again by the end of the year’. These people are deluded but they feel if they believe it strongly enough maybe they will keep their business going.
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to be fair to the agents and developers speaking twaddle…..you have to remember that they have been conditioned to be that way. After doing it for so long it must be difficult to change.
Only the other day the BBC interviewed an estate agent who expected UK house prices to ‘pick up again by the end of the year’. These people are deluded but they feel if they believe it strongly enough maybe they will keep their business going.
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angie wrote:Quite right Kingy they’ve been conditioned to lie through their gnashers, whether in the UK or Spain, 😆
They have to talk the market up, their income and lifestyle depend on it.
The problem is that people will read their quotes and think that because it is in the paper or on the radio it must be true. As I have commented here before the media needs advertising to survive they will print or say anything to sell space. In over 30 years here and reading the local press and latterly listening to the local radio stations mainly for a good laugh as most of the tripe they come out with is on a par with a Marx Brothers film,the latter were geniuses the former are ……..I have only read one bad report about a restaurante,someone asked me for my opinion on a local newspaper, my reply was “The only thing I believe in that rag is the date at the top of the front page and it has been known for that to be wrong.”
If this guy or” leading property expert “reckons that stories of corruption are basically lies , he is either mad, under the influence of a toxic substance or is in the wrong profession. I am afraid a local journalist should not give space to cretins , liars, substance abusers or whatever the so called “leading propert expert”is.
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angie wrote:Quite right Kingy they’ve been conditioned to lie through their gnashers, whether in the UK or Spain, 😆
They have to talk the market up, their income and lifestyle depend on it.
The problem is that people will read their quotes and think that because it is in the paper or on the radio it must be true. As I have commented here before the media needs advertising to survive they will print or say anything to sell space. In over 30 years here and reading the local press and latterly listening to the local radio stations mainly for a good laugh as most of the tripe they come out with is on a par with a Marx Brothers film,the latter were geniuses the former are ……..I have only read one bad report about a restaurante,someone asked me for my opinion on a local newspaper, my reply was “The only thing I believe in that rag is the date at the top of the front page and it has been known for that to be wrong.”
If this guy or” leading property expert “reckons that stories of corruption are basically lies , he is either mad, under the influence of a toxic substance or is in the wrong profession. I am afraid a local journalist should not give space to cretins , liars, substance abusers or whatever the so called “leading propert expert”is.
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@angie wrote:
Have just emailed Bateman …..
Any reply yet Angie?
As he feels some of the foreign press have “created alarm”, if he reads some of the threads on this forum he’d have a cardiac arrest.
If you’re out there Mr. Bateman, suggest you take a look at:
http://www.spanishpropertyinsight.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=10Your comments welcome……
Enjoy! 😀
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@angie wrote:
Have just emailed Bateman …..
Any reply yet Angie?
As he feels some of the foreign press have “created alarm”, if he reads some of the threads on this forum he’d have a cardiac arrest.
If you’re out there Mr. Bateman, suggest you take a look at:
http://www.spanishpropertyinsight.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=10Your comments welcome……
Enjoy! 😀
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Returning to topic, El País newspaper reports this morning that the corruption in Estepona had so much money accumulated that it allowed councillors to ‘take money personally, pay municipal activities, and finance the two parties which governed the town, the PSOE Socialists and the PES local Estepona party’.
The paper says that a second set of accounting books was controlled by the Mayor, Antonio Barrientos and the Councillor for Hacienda, Francisco José Zamorano, with later the spoils being paid out between the councillors.
Among those to declare before the judge on Wednesday were Luis Fernando Linares from the real estate promoter Valle Romano, and the President of the Grupo Prasa from Córdoba, José Romero, one of the most important businessmen in Andalucía.
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Returning to topic, El País newspaper reports this morning that the corruption in Estepona had so much money accumulated that it allowed councillors to ‘take money personally, pay municipal activities, and finance the two parties which governed the town, the PSOE Socialists and the PES local Estepona party’.
The paper says that a second set of accounting books was controlled by the Mayor, Antonio Barrientos and the Councillor for Hacienda, Francisco José Zamorano, with later the spoils being paid out between the councillors.
Among those to declare before the judge on Wednesday were Luis Fernando Linares from the real estate promoter Valle Romano, and the President of the Grupo Prasa from Córdoba, José Romero, one of the most important businessmen in Andalucía.
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Charlie, he has emailed me back to ask for my full name and contact details, so he can back up his statement!
Confirms that LPA is obviously suffering the same as most agents on the Costas.
Really not sure how he can possibly back up his statements when corruption is all around him on the Coast, he could be ‘backing up’ for years! 😉
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Charlie, he has emailed me back to ask for my full name and contact details, so he can back up his statement!
Confirms that LPA is obviously suffering the same as most agents on the Costas.
Really not sure how he can possibly back up his statements when corruption is all around him on the Coast, he could be ‘backing up’ for years! 😉
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Angie, why not send him the link to SPI’s Spanish Property Blackspots: http://www.spanishpropertyinsight.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=10
and ask for his informed comments.He should be reminded this link is only contributed to by members of SPI and therefore is probably only the tip of the iceberg. How can the media be accused of causing alarm when the real culprit is simply called ‘reality’.
This list of Blackspots also puts paid to the myth supported by some members that the corruption only affects ‘a few’. When tens of thousands of people are affected, it matters not whether this figure represents 1%, 5% or whatever % compared to happy/successful purchasers. It is too many and will not simply be sorted out in time – this corruption has created a situation that will affect thousands emotionally and financially for many many years to come.
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Angie, why not send him the link to SPI’s Spanish Property Blackspots: http://www.spanishpropertyinsight.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=10
and ask for his informed comments.He should be reminded this link is only contributed to by members of SPI and therefore is probably only the tip of the iceberg. How can the media be accused of causing alarm when the real culprit is simply called ‘reality’.
This list of Blackspots also puts paid to the myth supported by some members that the corruption only affects ‘a few’. When tens of thousands of people are affected, it matters not whether this figure represents 1%, 5% or whatever % compared to happy/successful purchasers. It is too many and will not simply be sorted out in time – this corruption has created a situation that will affect thousands emotionally and financially for many many years to come.
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angie wrote:Charlie, he has emailed me back to ask for my full name and contact details, so he can back up his statement!
Confirms that LPA is obviously suffering the same as most agents on the Costas.
Really not sure how he can possibly back up his statements when corruption is all around him on the Coast, he could be ‘backing up’ for years! 😉
He will probably say no one has been found guilty ,yet ,by the courts. Which to an extent is true due to reasons I had better not go into here otherwise Mark will be in trouble.
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angie wrote:Charlie, he has emailed me back to ask for my full name and contact details, so he can back up his statement!
Confirms that LPA is obviously suffering the same as most agents on the Costas.
Really not sure how he can possibly back up his statements when corruption is all around him on the Coast, he could be ‘backing up’ for years! 😉
He will probably say no one has been found guilty ,yet ,by the courts. Which to an extent is true due to reasons I had better not go into here otherwise Mark will be in trouble.
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@katy wrote:
Back on Topic! The list of those arrested in the Estepona case includes many Constructors and some Lawyers, plus a “small” Estate Agent.
what a terrible advert for spain . I know many brits that were thinking of buying in spain but don’t trust the spanish property system/property values anymore
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@katy wrote:
Back on Topic! The list of those arrested in the Estepona case includes many Constructors and some Lawyers, plus a “small” Estate Agent.
what a terrible advert for spain . I know many brits that were thinking of buying in spain but don’t trust the spanish property system/property values anymore
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The Mayor is reported to be very depressed and affected by what has happened, after spending three days in police cells. 🙁
Well, Snr Barrientos, that is nothing compared to the depression and what it’s like to be ‘affected’ by the actions of corrupt mayors.
Every bribe that mayors/town halls accepted could possibly result in someone eventually losing their home. Many are tied up financially and emotionally for many years in court cases trying to get money back on developments that corrupt mayors gave a nod and wink to.If the allegations turn out to be true, I hope you spend many years in jail and learn what it is really like to be depressed.
Credit crunch aside, corrupt mayors are as instrumental as anybody for destroying buying-confidence in Spain. -
The Mayor is reported to be very depressed and affected by what has happened, after spending three days in police cells. 🙁
Well, Snr Barrientos, that is nothing compared to the depression and what it’s like to be ‘affected’ by the actions of corrupt mayors.
Every bribe that mayors/town halls accepted could possibly result in someone eventually losing their home. Many are tied up financially and emotionally for many years in court cases trying to get money back on developments that corrupt mayors gave a nod and wink to.If the allegations turn out to be true, I hope you spend many years in jail and learn what it is really like to be depressed.
Credit crunch aside, corrupt mayors are as instrumental as anybody for destroying buying-confidence in Spain. -
kingy
is it such a bad advert though? In the long term, the fact that arrests are being reported, at least shows that something is being done to try and put things right. It may well be far to little, far to late, but it’s a start. If the ‘bad’ guys continue to be rooted out, and probably just as importantly, Spain tells the world they have had enough of the corruption, lack of regulation, and the costa’s being being the ‘joke’ of euro hot spots, then perhaps it can start to recover?
I realise this may well be wishful thinking, but a few years ago the low-life were ruining Spains costas quite happily without a care for anything apart from their own greed.
In the short term the arrests look dreadful for Spain, but they have to happen, to cut out the rot and present a face of decentcy where there has been so much wrong doing.
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kingy
is it such a bad advert though? In the long term, the fact that arrests are being reported, at least shows that something is being done to try and put things right. It may well be far to little, far to late, but it’s a start. If the ‘bad’ guys continue to be rooted out, and probably just as importantly, Spain tells the world they have had enough of the corruption, lack of regulation, and the costa’s being being the ‘joke’ of euro hot spots, then perhaps it can start to recover?
I realise this may well be wishful thinking, but a few years ago the low-life were ruining Spains costas quite happily without a care for anything apart from their own greed.
In the short term the arrests look dreadful for Spain, but they have to happen, to cut out the rot and present a face of decentcy where there has been so much wrong doing.
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I could hardly believe my eyes when I read what This Ian Bateman has said. Angie, and a couple of others have mailed him on it? I would mail him also to put him straight on a few things but I do not know his contact details.
I have however mailed the entertainer and asked them to forward the letter to him.
I wonder if Mr Bateman has been at the receiving end of the corruption in Spain? I wonder if he had to endure sleepless nights worrying about his money being taken , I wonder if he ever had to go to court to try and get his money returned from them and hand over thousands of euro in legal fees to solocitors/courts for to recover what was mine in the first place?
I think not! NO! … I forgot …he thinks it is not happening! -
I could hardly believe my eyes when I read what This Ian Bateman has said. Angie, and a couple of others have mailed him on it? I would mail him also to put him straight on a few things but I do not know his contact details.
I have however mailed the entertainer and asked them to forward the letter to him.
I wonder if Mr Bateman has been at the receiving end of the corruption in Spain? I wonder if he had to endure sleepless nights worrying about his money being taken , I wonder if he ever had to go to court to try and get his money returned from them and hand over thousands of euro in legal fees to solocitors/courts for to recover what was mine in the first place?
I think not! NO! … I forgot …he thinks it is not happening! -
I’ve sent this link to Mr Bateman.
His email is info@holmesotogrande.com -
I’ve sent this link to Mr Bateman.
His email is info@holmesotogrande.com -
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Would be interesting if Mr. Bateman would join us as did Chris McCarthy from Viva Estates on the Estate Agents Fees thread back in 2006.
What a great lengthy debate that turned out to be. But all power to Chris at the time for being up for the challenge for a debate.
http://www.spanishpropertyinsight.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1160&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15Mr. Bateman?
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Would be interesting if Mr. Bateman would join us as did Chris McCarthy from Viva Estates on the Estate Agents Fees thread back in 2006.
What a great lengthy debate that turned out to be. But all power to Chris at the time for being up for the challenge for a debate.
http://www.spanishpropertyinsight.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1160&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15Mr. Bateman?
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What a shameless bare faced liar this Bateman character is. I have never met such a bunch of crooks as the estate agents in the port of Sotogrande so I’m not surprised that’s where he lives.
Looking at the absurd prices on his website I can see why someone joked about him smoking wacky baccy.Every time these people open their mouths they reinforce all the negative stereotypes that many have of Spanish estate agents.
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What a shameless bare faced liar this Bateman character is. I have never met such a bunch of crooks as the estate agents in the port of Sotogrande so I’m not surprised that’s where he lives.
Looking at the absurd prices on his website I can see why someone joked about him smoking wacky baccy.Every time these people open their mouths they reinforce all the negative stereotypes that many have of Spanish estate agents.
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where is it all going to end ? I think that there are so many people involved that as soon as each one of them is caught the paper trail leads to all the others like a spider web. It is happening from the top down, God only knows how many palms have been greased ? I would say we will be hearing of a lot more arrests before the week has even ended.
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bettyboo wrote:where is it all going to end ? I think that there are so many people involved that as soon as each one of them is caught the paper trail leads to all the others like a spider web. It is happening from the top down, God only knows how many palms have been greased ? I would say we will be hearing of a lot more arrests before the week has even ended.
Bettyboo, everyone should remember that this system has operated in Spain since time began. Palms have been greased at all levels. In a town I know quite well on the Costa Blanca, a former mayor ,who had been an assitant bank manager managed to accumulate a fortune from nothing during his occupancy of the mayorship.
It was common knowledge all along this coast at least that the mayors were on a nice backhander for each approved development . These kickbacks went through the planning department etc. Even now the average Spaniard is not appalled by the level of corruption , they take the view that” it has always gone on,you can´t stop it so why worry about it. It is the way things are in Spain.” This is the attitude to the Spaniards I speak to at least.
Even now we see the courts ready to do deals so that people who should be locked up for donkeys years get off with light sentences. Of all the people implicated in Malaya, Vera,and other cases how many are banged up to rights.? Hardly any.
Going back even further, does anyone know if the infamous Sr Gil of Malaga ever served time in prison.? I remember he was in hot water with the Franco government because some flats he had built collapsed due to bad construction, and if i remember correctly lives were lost ; but do not think he spent ant time in jail.
We know that politicians are generous with the truth. A woman who was expected to launch a campaign to be leader of the PP party , but in the end did n´t run, announced the other day that due to the plight of the Spanish economy she would not take a pay rise this year, very good I say: but what she did n,t say was that she received a 7% pay increase only two months before . Ok she did n´t lie , but did forget ? to mention her recent pay increase.
Spain is a contradiction that is difficult to explain , in many ways they are the kindest people in the world in other ways they are the cruellest. They will do anything for children, but will park illegally all day on invalid parking spot. Some pets are treated like royalty , others not even fed and watered.
As a northern european by birth and upbringing I must admit I will never understand how the Spanish mind works. They would probably say the same about me though. Complete lack of compassion for people like the Pryors but very kind to others.
To misquote a British politician who would have done well in Spain in whichever field he entered , he has n´t done too badly financially in the UK. The Spanish are a Contradiction, Contradiction, Contradiction.
Excuse my ramblings on what is supposed to be a forum about property , but the workings of the Spanish mind has always fascinated me, perhaps fellow forum members could help me out , with what ,I was going to say,
makes this country tick. -
@135yearswaiting wrote:
….does anyone know if the infamous Sr Gil of Malaga ever served time in prison.? I remember he was in hot water with the Franco government because some flats he had built collapsed due to bad construction, and if i remember correctly lives were lost ; but do not think he spent ant time in jail.
Apparently Gil was sent to prison a couple of times, and was involved in more than 80 court cases.
I think the incident you refer to may be this one:In 1969, aged 36 he built a complex in ‘Los Angeles’ in San Rafael (Segovia), which was to land him in jail for the first time.
Before the cement had time to set 700 people were eating in the restaurant attached to the complex. The roof fell in and 58 people died with many more seriously injured.
Gil had been dining in the restaurant at the time and had left for a few minutes to show a plot to a potential buyer. He was fined 400,000 pesetas and jailed for 18 months when Franco pardoned him.Famous Gil quote regarding politicians:
“Politics is a shelter for incompetents. I wouldn’t have them as bellboys in my company.”Some more (brief) info on Jesus Gil’s life in case of interest:
http://www.andalucia.com/history/people/jesusgil.htm -
charlie wrote:135yearswaiting wrote:….does anyone know if the infamous Sr Gil of Malaga ever served time in prison.? I remember he was in hot water with the Franco government because some flats he had built collapsed due to bad construction, and if i remember correctly lives were lost ; but do not think he spent ant time in jail.
Apparently Gil was sent to prison a couple of times, and was involved in more than 80 court cases.
I think the incident you refer to may be this one:In 1969, aged 36 he built a complex in ‘Los Angeles’ in San Rafael (Segovia), which was to land him in jail for the first time.
Before the cement had time to set 700 people were eating in the restaurant attached to the complex. The roof fell in and 58 people died with many more seriously injured.
Gil had been dining in the restaurant at the time and had left for a few minutes to show a plot to a potential buyer. He was fined 400,000 pesetas and jailed for 18 months when Franco pardoned him.Famous Gil quote regarding politicians:
“Politics is a shelter for incompetents. I wouldn’t have them as bellboys in my company.”Some more (brief) info on Jesus Gil’s life in case of interest:
http://www.andalucia.com/history/people/jesusgil.htm%5B/quoteHe certainly was a character,thanks for the update Charlie all very interesting. I remember when he was Chairman of Atletico Madrid in one season they had 4 or 5 managers,he was quoted at the time as saying, “I change managers as often as others change the brand of beer they drink”
When one considers he faced over 80 court cases, indirectly was responsible for the death of 58 people and hardly served anytime in prison, to me at least it explains a lot about the Spanish character. If one has the right “enchufes” for non Spanish speakers I will explain this is a term used for people with good “connections” in the system and the seats of power, then court cases have a teflon finish.. One leading developer was said to have more “connections” than Iberdrola the electricity company.
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He certainly was a character. In the 90’s there was a TV program called
” La Machina de verdad ” The program had three question that he had to answer. The subject was the disaster that Charlie mentions above.
I believe that the company concerned was operated with the family & called GILMAR. I have seen the name of the company in the Marbella area.The machine found him lying in reply to all three questions. In any other Country he would have been dead in Commercial/political terms. In fact any self respecting citizen would not even enter the program knowing that he/she would have been exposed once the truth is know as “Gerald Ratner” would have confirmed.
To the best of my knowledge he went on strength to strength. His son was also the mayor of Estepona for a while. The company Gilmar is now operating in Morocco.
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Rob6578
“I hate to be picky but Gerald Ratnor wasn’t a liar or cheat, his problem was that he told the truth!”
You are not being picky at all. The parallel that I was trying to make was that if you come on TV/media & say negative things about your product, staff, management etc, It is akin to a commercial suicide and that was what Gerald Ratner did even though he meant in a tongue & cheek manner, as I cannot believe such a clever man who had taken years to build his reputation would have uttered those words, that he did.
As you probably know that he has not recovered commercially and perhaps it is difficult to quantify in monetary terms. As a result he is now subject of case studies for all the wrong reasons.
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Yes, Katy, they are in Marbella & indeed his son is the owner.
As I had posted before his son was the Mayor of Estepona. GILMAR is now developing in Tangiers on the Atlantic coast a development by the name of TANJAH. True to family traditions, practises, the development is riddled with problems, lack of paper work, information, problems with site as apparently it gets flooded.The people who bought there are having and will continue to have problems. They have not done the due diligence and than go blame all under sundry.
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