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Good morning all.
as the title implies I want to covers one of the more popular topics on this site. Off-plan resales & LFOs. yay!!!
a person i know is interested in selling her property there and I know there are people on this site who have bought or know people who have bought there.
Are properties there selling, at what price?
Has the development got all licenses in place? as I beleive there are people living there now.
She’s asked me to give here a price, as she has not completed yet and want to know what she reasonably expect at this moment in time.
2bed, 2 bath, 90m2 + 30m2 of terrace. meterage based on memory, she has show me her contract yet (tomorrow hopefully).
Thanks
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Fuengi, Los Lagos has quite a problem with legalities. My husband & I attended a meeting in London last w/end. Those present were buyers of Green Hills and Los Lagos. All of them have Court cases ongoing to get deposits refunded as neither development has an LFO. Also present was our Lawyer who represents them. (he also represents many other purchasers who were not present on this occasion). His business partner was also present who is a specialist in Urban Development. He gave us all copies of a private report he was asked to write about Los Lagos. The development was granted a licence for detached houses and terraced houses. Instead 340 properties were built in apartment blocks and 6 terraced properties. The breach of planning not only went against the original plans but also exceeded the parameters of maximum build able area and degree of occupation.
If/When it comes to giving the Town Hall compensation for this situation, the owners may be liable for this compensation, whoever they may be..owner/occupier or developer. There is insufficient land to give back to the local council as compensation and so it could/would come down to monetary compensation by the owners in order for the council to buy additional land for public use
The document is several pages long and the above is simple precis.The advise would be not to buy until things have been resolved at LL.
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Hi
Have to say I agree with Claire and if you have the choice and are asking advice it may be better to consider other developments than G.H and Los Lagos at the moment until matters get sorted.
If Elvira is your chosen location you may find that the habitation licence issue will apply to many many properties.
However at the end of the day its your decision and your advisors to give you advice.
Valuation ? Just how can a valuation be put on properties that are illegal.
Without licence you could say its worthless
With licence market forces will determine prices and this area was and will be sought after as the develolpers didnt have the chance to ruin it
In my opinion possibly the best overall area on the Costa de Sol.Just Frank 8)
Deperate purchaser of one of the above developments and wish someone would kick some arse to sort this whole sorry mess out for the owners and those that find themselves left well and truly up the creek with no paddle.
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damn.
Problem is this person has health problems and wants to sell up.
If properties there are not currently selling cna one of you PM me with the details of whom ever is representing owners there.Again thanks for the information claire/Frank.
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Fuengi, I only know our lawyer who is representing owners of LL. I’m not sure he would be too happy with me for giving out his details. He wouldn’t deal with the re-selling side, just the legals. Maybe Frank could be more helpful on that side of things. Los Lagos and other developments with legal problems, are giving many people health problems. 🙁
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@Claire wrote:
Fuengi, I only know our lawyer who is representing owners of LL. I’m not sure he would be too happy with me for giving out his details. He wouldn’t deal with the re-selling side, just the legals. Maybe Frank could be more helpful on that side of things. Los Lagos and other developments with legal problems, are giving many people health problems. 🙁
if the situation is as you both said, we will not sell it, as without all the paperwork in order we can’t.
decree 218 and all that.i’m hoping the owner can contact this lawyer to see what she can do in regards to pulling out and getting her money back. I don’t want to give her false hope if its unlikely.
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Fuengi
I think that Paul800 thats used to post on the forums may be of help.
With respect Fuengi but if you like this area and this development you could carry out due diligence and if the price is right this could be a very good buying opportunity.
When the licences get issued it may be a very different story.
At the end of the day this development will get sorted despite all the press as its just one of hundreds of developments with problems ,its just fact that this one is in a fantastic location.( thats why it gets the press it does)
Would I go for it ? Yep think I would for the reasons I have given as I truly believe that this area along to El Rosario will one day soon be the area to be
Why do I think that ? Because the area is full of solicitors.estate agents and in general people that perhaps know the area to be in and ticks all the boxes.
Now before I have the wrath put on me for trying to up sell an area where I have property interest I had better shut the gob.
At the end of the day this is an open forum and this is MY genuine opinion.Just Frank 8)
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But as Fuengi says, it is illegal for an agent to advertise a property without the paperwork and that includes an LFO etc. However if its not completed I suppose it doesn’t apply 😕
Agree about the area though, my neighbour is a Lawyer and there are many others living around here, plus other spanish professionals and Doctors etc.
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katy/frank
why hasn’t the development this got a license? Why is it illegal? Is it one that should be ok, given time?
just point me to another thread about it, if easier.
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Goodstitch, read my first post above.
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please lets not talk about buying and selling on this thread. Don’t want to upset mark. theres enough ‘interesting’ threads for him to keep track of without me adding to the pile.
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Fueingi
Just read Claires post and yes I can put you in contact with someone that could give you the run down.
The lady getiing her deposit back ,perhaps as Claire has mentioned could be one reason for her ill health ( it damned wont have helped)
To be Frank 8) 😆 this whole situation could get very messy but there again the possible buying opportunity wouldnt perhaps be there if the problems were or will someday be sorted.
Right . The L.F.O . the owners could have to pay,I doupt it and feel that they will a have to grant an pardon ,but again this is my opinion only.
So negotiate the price that allows you to pay for the legals should you be called upon to do so.
Its one of those cases that damned if you do and damned if you dont and many will have different views.
I take gambles where some on the forum would say is plain stupid because rental yeild y does not equate to z but feel that neither is right or wrong as the most successful businessmen have to take punt at times out of pure gut feeling
No one can tell you to buy or not to buy if you think about it and you would be perhaps silly to base you decision on forum advice
Use it as part of the due deligence and you will only buy if YOU feel its rightJust Frank 8)
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Claire
doh!………….sorry.
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Frank,
You said:
The L.F.O . the owners could= will have to pay,I doupt it and feel that they will a have to grant an pardon ,but again this is my opinion only.
Not that I like to contradict you, 😉 but a pardon will not be granted in this instance. Compensation has to be paid: It is the form of the compensation that is the problem, and its size!
If thorough due diligence is carried out then the whole picture will be realised. -
Decree 218 exists for off plan resales and its a nightmare – the information one has to have in case an official askes for it has ensured I dont promote them anymore either!
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Inez wrote:Decree 218 exists for off plan resales and its a nightmare – the information one has to have in case an official askes for it has ensured I dont promote them anymore either!
I know.
Let ask the develpoer for the DIA.Can you imaging, completion date: ❓
i’m sure the junta would accept that…
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Hi Claire
No problem and its only an opinion so no real need for contradition. 😆
As I said its a real mess and Fuengi would have this explained through a good solicitor.( perhaps some sort of bond could be held pending the outcome)
Just personally as yet I cant see how all this will turn out on hundreds of developments.
Some of these developments have been occupied for years without a habitation licence.
We could be talking about 100s of thousands of properties throughout Spain.
So we have an 100 apartment block that has no licence and 90 agree to pay? How can the other 10 be illegal ?
If they were taken to court then if they lost then surely they would appeal just as the develpers have done and maybe win next time round?
What about the situation where the A/S rule is proved ?
Contrary the law that agents cant advertise these properties as it illegal appears to be a sham as they are,banks are lending and transactions are going through.
Even Inez is I think ?advertising illegal properties and so is every other agent and even a solicitor on this forum has stated its that selling or buying is happening and its not illegal.
We believe and trust the solicitors advice and the problem is the advice is against a moving target. O.K 6 months ago but has to change as the law tries to graple with this sorry mess and no system in place to understand or cope due mainly due to uncontrolled corruption.
Goodstich 44 .Well this is just another case of a developers greed in building tooo many than ,cutting back on quality and apartment sizes even on the revised dodgy planning approval.
How you can have local councils saying its legal and then higher level saying its not is joke.( how can two judges at local level give opposing verdicts ( surley law is law in the same situation)
Then cases then go to appeal to a higher court and it goes on and on.
Bit like La Reserva where they built and additional X apartments and they had to go to court.
Outcome ? The courts said that no one stopped the build and therefore its not the developers fault. 😈
Sorry Fuengi if this has gone off course a little but as can be seen the whole thing is bloody mess with rules changing as and when they see fit.
Still say that its an individuals choice and at least they have many more facts in front of them to make an informed decision than many of the other poor souls in the past.Just Frank 8)
Hope yer still awake and sooory for the waffle but this is my nerve point and all forcasts of what will or may happen to the market will never be sorted or be accurate until there is situation in place where buyers and sellers have this legal mess sorted and the market then will find its true value,whatever that may be. -
Frank, the owners who do not pay the surcharge (cough: Bribe!) to have their properties legalised will have an embargo on their property.
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A “charge on the property by the Town Hall” is the term I heard. Same as embargo I guess.
Frank although there are many developments in similar situations, they cannot be grouped together as having the same problems. Each development is different when it comes down to the sometimes minutest technicalities in a Court of Law. One detail can set a development apart from it’s neighbour.Hope yer still awake and sooory for the waffle but this is my nerve point and all forcasts of what will or may happen to the market will never be sorted or be accurate until there is situation in place where buyers and sellers have this legal mess sorted and the market then will find its true value,whatever that may be.
There are in the region of 6,000 licences to be investigated and only two people doing the investigating! Lfo’s could take some time.
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Katy 🙂
An embargo placed on a properties that were illegal because of the corrupt system will be very interesting if that is the route and Spain really would have property crisis on their hands.
What is it 50,000 + in Marbella alone ?Claire. 😆 Yep agree and have always said that each case regarding if you complete/not complete/ take the court route/ walk away is a decision made by that individual based on that development,the advice from solicitors after gaining all information from whatever source.
As I said its a bloody mess but thats when opportunities may or may not be there.
See there is a massive fire sale in London of U.K properties that have been forclosed.
One being a real top knotch one near me where the developer has gone personally bankrupt after restoring a wonderful property.
Penthouses £ 1 M each and said that 4 will be sold for the price of one.
Blimey sorry for going off topic and back to Los Lagos guys and gals.Frank 8)
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Frank
i’ve already told Inez i’ve got 50 quid, for a nice two bed by the beach. I think i’ll hold out for a b.o.g.o.f now.
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Well in that case, I’ve got 186euros left over from my hols last year. What do you think I can buy?.. especially being a cash buyer! 😆
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Fuengi
http://www.typicallyspanish.com/news/publish/article_12446.shtml
Maybe she should sue
Regards
Paul
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Now the Málaga Provincial Court will have to decide a common ruling for both cases
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At long last! Let’s hope it goes against the developer. Once a precedence has been established, then hopefully it will put an end to the “crazy” (our lawyers description) outcomes of some cases. Either way, it could put an end to what is now tantamount to a lottery in the Courts. -
Don’t get too excited Claire. This article (dated last September) is the one we already know about…..and as far as I know, the losing parties in both cases are still appealing.
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Hmm, sept 2007. 😳 🙁
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Hi all
I just won a case against Los Lagos in the High Court of Malaga.
This case was lost in Marbella and the High Court of Malaga revoked the sentence of Marbella.
It is not the first case that was won in Malaga in the last months and it is fine because it means that the argument used by the buyers lawyers is absolutely valid, the development has no habitation license and there is a delay of 4 years until today until they obtain the habitation license.
My client is very happy and I still believe in justice.
Now the problem will be to obtain the funds but the first step is done and we have to go step by step.
Best regards
Jose Ramon Gutierrez Gimenez
Abogado / Lawyer
Registered in the Bar Association of Malaga ( 6.182)
C/ Alonso de Bazan 3 2º C, 29601 Marbella ( Malaga)
Phone and fax number 0034 952771938
Mobile phone 0034 699794751
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Does the above constitute a Commercial post? 😕 It would be OK if all the contact details were not there I guess!
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