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Hi Guys,
Been reading all the comments about La Reserva, well what a shock we got, we knew nothing about it until Friday, this was our silver wedding presant to each other. Our apartment is in Manzana 4 block 3After sending a whole host of emails over the weekend to our solicitors in Spain, and a long conversation with Victoria today, she sent me this email, which I hope will help in some way.
Dear Mrs Foster,
Re: La Reserva de Marbella
First of all, please find that your property is currently usefull and can be legally sold. However the sale of any property in La Reserva de Marbella under the current circumstances is commercially impossible because of all the bad news on the development but not because of the habitation certificate issue.When I did the searches on Urban Planning, I assured you that the habitation certificate was not a big concern also I can now assure you that the habitation certificate is not the issue that is causing all these worries on La Reserva de Marbella.
Construction Licenses and Habitation Certificates are issued by the Town Hall. If a construction License is granted by the Town Hall and the development has been constructed according to that license, the Habitation license is also granted by the Town Hall once the developer has applied for it.
As I explained to you and reconfirm now, if the Town Hall does not give answer to that application within 3 months since it has been received, the habitation license is considered as to be granted according to the law. This situation is the one existing at La Reserva de Marbella.
The current problem exisiting in La Reserva de Marbella and many others developmens in Marbella is the construction license. It seems that many irregularities have taken place in the management of the Construction licenses Departament at Marbella Town Hall. It seems that Planning rules were ilegally adapted by the Mayor by receiving B money from developers. Obviously, this is something that even not the lawyer on doing the legal searches can find out. Most of the people involved working for the Town Hall are in prison, including two Mayors.
Please find that there is 17 different construction licenses on La Reserva de Marbella development. Some of them are accused of being ilegal and some not. I have an appointment tomorrow at the Department of Public Works and Planning of the Government, which is dealing with the accusations in order to clarify which of the licenses have been constested.
In the event that yours has not been constested, the license was legally granted. The inconvenience is obviously that selling the property will be now very difficult until all this problem has ceased of being published.
In the event that your specific license has been constested, we will have to wait until the end of the procedure before the Court in order to see what the situation is. However, please find that purchasers of properties with a Court procedure going on are `third parties´ who are always protected by the Law, so that you will never be damaged by the Court future decision.
The Court will condemed both the Town hall and Developer to Prison and will probably declare the licenses as per being considered as legal in order to avoid damage to third parties. However, this we will not know until the end of the procedure, that could take more than a year.
Please find that I was never forced by the developers to complete quickly. I have always advised you and my other clients in La Reserva de Marbella in the best of their interests.I am specialist in Planning Rules and I am specially aware of all the Marbella Planning Rules incidences since 1986, which are very complex and long to explain. It is true that planning approved on 1998 was revoked several years ago and that planning approved on 1986 is the one considered as official and legal by the Department of Public Works and Planning of the Government. Therefore all construction licenses issued by Marbella Town hall must be complied with planning approved in 1986.
When we do the searches of any construction license, the above is the first thing that we make sure it has been met.Please find that we will send an update to each of our clients in La Reserva de Marbella, advising on each of their specific property.
Please find that I will be very happy to contact Mark Wilkins or Justin from The Rigts Group in order to help with any clarification they may need.
With Kind Regards, -
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Hi Pammie,
I am so sorry to hear of your situation at La Reserva. The person who could enlighten you on this development is Suzanne. She has appeared on a Granada TV program regarding this development.
If you click on the the Spanish Property Forum link at the top of this page and then go to the bottom of the page, there is a topic about Forcing completion and Habitation licences. To the right of the column you will see Suzannes name. Click on it and you will get her profile page. You can then click on the appropriate link to send her a private message. You could “cut & paste” or refer her to your original posting.I hope this will help you.
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Marbella Management Committee has announced that it is going to inform foreign owners of illegally built properties in the town on the process needed to legalise their homes.
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@Phillip wrote:
Success! Return of deposit plus intrest all due to finding an excellent Lawyer(org Lawyers 😀 DVA enough said) don’t let the ****** get away with it.
Hello Phillip, we have all been jumping for joy for you. My lawyer was also interested to hear your news, but are we correct that you haven’t actually got any money back yet but are currently claiming on your Bank Guarantee ❓ Please don’t be offended by this question, but if you are in the process of making a Claim this is an entirely different situation.
Regards, Suzanne
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Phillip – firstly, many many congratulations re. your success in ‘retrieving’ your monies back.
Having been through a similar (successful) situation last year, albeit another development, know and understand the immense relief you must be feeling.
It’s great, isn’t it…….. 😀To my mind there are three ways to achieve this result:
1) Calling in on your Bank Guarantee (if you have one!)
2) Actually going to court, and the judge rules in your favour
3) The developer settles out-of-court just before the hearing(Our lawyer had an experience once where he was literally walking through the door of the courtroom when his mobile went with an offer of a settlement!).
I know your answer to Suzanne’s question therefore will be of immense interest to others following in your footsteps.
Many thanks.
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Hi Phillip
Any chance of either replying to Suzannes question as I think that there are dozens that are looking to perhaps follow the route you have taken (a reply to my P/M would be fine ?)
Spoke to my solicitor today and she too would like to know what angle you took as it may set a presidence.
Charlie ,you have the answer and we it would be great if you could enlighten us.
Phillip you are the envy of the forum at the moment and would love to hear how you suceeded where the rest of us are still fighting.
Well done and look forward to the posting which must be one of most eagerly awaited postings for some while.As Charlie and we all say !well done
Regards
Jim 🙄 -
Guys
Thanks for your congratulations I must have been stupid as I never considered we might lose thou reading the postings am I just lucky?
I have replied by PM to some of you but for evrey body who is progressing their claim I will share the actions which was taken.
Please note we had a BG in place.1-Obtain evidence in writing the build is Illegal.
2-Present evidence to the promoter ask for return of monies please,no response as expected .
3-Present evidence to the Bank claim on BG, they pay with intrest which is in my account.
This is a simple summary of the process the credit is all to my Lawyer .
My understanding is even with no BG in place you should be successful in gaining judgement in court.This really is down to the Lawyer as my evidence is from the council which is available to all (for a small fee!) I hope this may help in keeping your spirits up I wish l success to you all .
Just to close I am now looking for a home to buy! I think this is where I started stupid or what?Kind regards
Phillip
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Phillip – many thanks for your account.
May I ask if the bank who issued your BG made you go to court, or did they ‘happily’ pay up without court?
In our case (Green Hills upper blocks), despite no building whatsoever having taken place for three years…..they wanted to make us wait another 6 months as per the date on the BG. All dictated to by the developer of course – the Bank pay then so does the developer.
Our lawyer did all the steps you mention, but then we had to still go to court to force them to pay ‘immediately’.
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@Phillip wrote:
Guys
1-Obtain evidence in writing the build is Illegal.
My understanding is even with no BG in place you should be successful in gaining judgement in court. This really is down to the Lawyer as my evidence is from the council which is available to all (for a small fee!)
This is what everyone should do who wants to know what the status of their development is. IE. Is it legal or not / under investigation. Go to the Town Hall. This is how Charlie, Katerina and I found out about the situation at Green Hills.
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Hi Philip
Brilliant to have the money in the Bank.?As we have many very experienced members on this forum who aim to supply as much information to people in the Spanish property market is their any chance that you could answer the following
1 What block on La Reserva de Marbella did you manage to have the successful outcome.?
2 What builders guarantee did you claim on was it the standard one
offered on signing reservation contracts ?
3 You have sent a P/M to some that have requested the same
information as me, can you copy me or does anyone have a copy of
the answers they could let me have.?
4 Please let me know what fee you require for the notes on the case as and if its on the same block as both my solicitor and me will willingly pay.?
5 We have key long standing members of this forum that alongside me are full of praise for what you have managed to achieve.
6 I simply cant explain how much your help would be appreciated as while your previous reply was in basic form and then expanded on by some of the members it is specifics that would help on this development and not to suddenly switch to another that had no relation to this one?
7 Your solicitors must be very good and would you mined if this firms details could be given to others with similar problems.
8 I appreciate that since you joined the forum several years back you have made only the one posting but as it was such a good one and taken so seriously by everyone so giving them hope please can you expand on your postings.Regards
Jim
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@glassman wrote:
Hi Philip
Brilliant to have the money in the Bank.?As we have many very experienced members on this forum who aim to supply as much information to people in the Spanish property market is their any chance that you could answer the following…………………….
4 Please let me know what fee you require for the notes on the case as and if its on the same block as both my solicitor and me will willingly pay.?
……….
7 Your solicitors must be very good and would you mined if this firms details could be given to others with similar problems………Regards Jim 🙂
Hello Jim,
I think the ‘fee’ Phillip mentioned is the one you would pay to the Town Hall for the relevant information.I too have some questions on Phillip’s successful case, but probably only one that I can ask here:
Phillip, you quote DVA as the lawyers you used for the successful outcome, but in your PM to me you name another, totally different lawyers firm. Can you please explain ❓ Thank you & regards. -
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http://www.spanishpropertyinsight.com/spanish_property_lawyer_spain_3.htm
Once you have found and hired an independent lawyer you need to establish a good working relationship built on trust and avoid giving any impression that you lack confidence in your lawyer. Having said that anything is possible so always keep copies of all the important documents you pass to your lawyer and keep notes of conversations and decisions. Many of the British people who bought on the Sea Golf Regency development in Alcaidesa through Ocean Estates ended up using Del Valle Abogados (DVA) – the lawyer recommended by Ocean Estates. DVA have since been raided by the police in a money-laundering investigation, and all or most of the company’s documents have been impounded, including client files. Those British clients who used DVA and didn’t keep copies of all the important documents now have no way of checking what they signed, and do not have access to any of the documents they handed over to DVA. Incidentally Fernando Del Valle, president of DVA and now detained on money-laundering charges, was also the administrator Alleerton – the promoter of the Sea Regency Golf development. This means that Ocean Estates were recommending their clients a firm of solicitors that had a clear interest in the successful sale of the development.
ALSO
http://www.spanishpropertyinsight.com/spanish_property_lawyer_spain_5.htm
© Mark Stucklin (Spanish Property Insight)
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Sorry Charlie.
Perhaps I am confused but thouht you were refering to this question from Suzanne when you said you had the answer 😕Hello Phillip, we have all been jumping for joy for you. My lawyer was also interested to hear your news, but are we correct that you haven’t actually got any money back yet but are currently claiming on your Bank Guarantee Please don’t be offended by this question, but if you are in the process of making a Claim this is an entirely different situation.
Regards, Suzanne
As is known Suzanne and myself have court cases coming up on La Reserva de Marbella and any info specific to this development could would be appreciated.
Green Hills was a no build issue.Which blocks is anyone having any success on La Reserva de Mabella
A P/M would be fineRegards
Jim
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@glassman wrote:
Green Hills was a no build issue.
Only the upper blocks, yes.
Shouldn’t cloud the fact that 6 people so far from the built lower blocks have won a judgement in court for monies to be returned, albeit the developer has appealed. And there are 24 others who I know personally who are queuing up behind them waiting for their court dates.
Just clarifying the facts.Unfortunately the Green Hills thread is locked so nowhere else to go.
Am sure people interested generally in court case news won’t mind… 😉 .
Gives encouragement and hope.Just filling the time until Phillip posts whether he had to actually go to court or not re. his Bank Guarantee.
Sometimes, it’s irrelevant which development one is talking about – learning from other’s experiences/successes on other developments re. court cases, and the different approaches lawyers take, can offer invaluable information to others.
I know one on this forum feels that none of this is my business anymore as my court case is over, as per his posts on this and the EOS forum.
But as I have another court case pending in Spain I am in fact very much involved (and interested) in what is going on generally with others.
And when my case is over I will be more than happy to share all info. with those who are interested, despite it being a development they may not be connected with. -
glassman, I understand your confusion now and my sentence could be somewhat ambiguous.
When I wrote:
“I know your answer to Suzanne’s question therefore will be of immense interest to others following in your footsteps”
…..I meant I knew the answer would be of interest, not that I actually knew the answer.Put the ‘therefore’ at the beginning of the sentence and it will be clearer (hopefully 😀 )
Just shows how important the odd comma is! -
Claire , Celebrate ? (Had to go back to put the comma in.)
If I win my case ,I will probably need a liver transplant 😆
I too view the other forum regarding this development and to think that everything is great fills me with joy(not) 😡
Seems that many are swapping photos and all is wonderful however for some reason when I sent mine a while back things went very quiet 😕
Something must be wrong with my camera as well as mine did not have the 15 Swimming Pools ,15 Jacuzzis,Sparkling Waterfalls.
Not withstanding that I just appear to have something missing on my apartment as well ?Regards
Jim 😀 -
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Jules B
Are you indicating that a Spanish developer would build more apartments than they had plans for 😯
Do you have the broucher that gives the basic layout including the 15 swimming pools,15 jacuzzis,sparkling waterfalls.
I do have a very basic photo copy given to me in Oct 2003 if thats any good.
Suzanne I and think myself are reasonably clued up with regards to this development and think you will find that extra apartments were built which they appear to have got away with (problably built where the swimming pools were supposed to be).Regards
Jim
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@Phillip wrote:
Success! Return of deposit plus intrest all due to finding an excellent Lawyer(original Lawyers :DVA enough said) don’t let the ****** get away with it.
According to Phillip, he is at least one, by claiming on his Bank Guarantee as per his second post on page 2 (though admittedly was not a court situation).
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Hi Benedict
Think many were waiting for a reply from Phillip as there does appear that something may or may not be amiss with his claims.
Luv to be proved wrong though but I know where my money would go on
Really sorry about not replying to the P/M as I simply missed it as most of my posts now have to be made outside of the forums threads.
Very happy to reply and if its O.K with you I will do it through a P/M later today.Regards
Jim 🙂 -
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@steventhelwell wrote:
Just caught up with this posting.So i contacted my lawyer to find out if he new of any settled court cases on La Reserva . He told me that none have been settled yet! What is the summary of this thread if my Lawyer is correct and cases are still to be processed through the courts?
Hello Steven,
My lawyer told me the same the day after ‘Phillip’s’ posting – no record of successful court cases. I think he is either trying to get his money back through his BG (which he told me he paid for) & also claiming for the cost of the BG (which he shouldn’t have paid for), or ‘philip’ is a lawyer trying to drum up business for his company – but I may be totally wrong of course which is why I was encouraging ‘Philip’ to respond. Only 2 postings to tell us the good news & how great the lawyer is – it all sounded a bit dodgy to me ❓ 🙁 -
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Hello JulesB,
I did see a list via the Presidente at LR last year, which listed ‘debtors’, including people who had not completed. Haven’t seen one since or received any notice myself. As far as I understand, if the contract is cancelled (as it would be if taking the developer to court), it is the developer’s responsibility to pay those respective community fees, just as it is with any other apartments they have not sold – rather than pass the burden on to other owners.
I am sure you will have forwarded this to your lawyer. It would be interesting to know if others have also received similar ‘demands’.
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Hello Fuengi,
As far as I am aware there have been no Habitation Licences issued at La Reserva II. The developer is insisting they are in place, via the Administrative Silence route, but we know this does now not apply on illegal builds. Also, LR has far too many apartments built in areas for the land density.
This morning I received a copy of the document which lists the outstanding community charges on some of the blocks. It appears that in just one block alone 96 people have not completed, showing a CC debt of over 210,000 Euros ❗ The people who have chosen to complete are obviously not too happy about this debt.
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Regarding the above Document; it also lists the individual names of all ‘Debtors’. I’m not sure about whether any confidentiality issues are being breached here ❓
Having said that, it is interesting to note the name of one prominent REA on the list, and also many Spanish names. Think it’s important to remember that many Spanish people are also affected by the Spanish Property Scandal, and have been treated shamefully by their fellow countrymen.
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Have just been told by a lawyer that the whole of La Reserva appears to be on the new PGOU plan approved today by Marbella Town Hall. Full legalised status is expected in 2008 ❗ ❗
I’m waiting for further confirmation of this but am wondering, if definite, how it would affect impending court cases against the developer? Have previously been told that this should not affect adversely, but I wonder….. ❓ ❓ ❓
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Hello Fuengi,
Although LR is on the new PGOU, this still needs to be ‘Finally Approved’ and no Licences will be issued until that time. No-one seems to know exactly when that may happen, but I’m told maybe next year. Despite the developer insisting that they have the FLOs, and there is a notice on the gates stating this, the FACT is that they do Not. They continue to mislead people.
Glad to hear you have withdrawn your support from there Fuengi, as there are already too many purchasers there who have been lied to & deceived. It’s good to hear of agents doing the right thing in these circumstances, and can only be good for their business now, as more people are much more aware of exactly what is going on.
I had a ‘phone call from someone (a prominent Reporter) at the weekend who was at LR, & commented that parts of it resembled “a ghost town”.
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Has anyone read about this ?
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I’ve been in a quandary – wanting to post my good news – but not wanting to put a spanner in the works, particularly for the class action which was heard 5 months after mine.
I was in court in Malaga last November – Mr P. was there too, while I was interrogated by his lawyer. It took four months to get a decision from the Judge, and I am so happy to say that I WON.
The class action mentioned in the article that jsmith has kindly posted was only heard 2 weeks ago. They waited just one week for the Judge’s Ruling.Penarroya have appealed, and in my case refused to pay me the money, so this is now being enforced. I cannot praise my lawyer highly enough; he has been a constant source of support and professionalism – a far cry from the original lawyer I was with (as were many in the class action).
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Suzanne..CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!! 😆 😆 😆 You so deserve this. I’m delighted for you and the other people involved. Congratulations to the lawyers concerned also. What a ray of hope for so many people. AT LAST JUSTICE HAS BEEN DONE.
My goodness, you justifyably should be singing from the roof tops. I know they have appealed and I know from our own experience how frustrating that is. I am sure that you will get your money back.
This piece particularly pleased me:Licence of First Occupation
Moreover, a town hall resolution existed issued by the “Comisión Gestora” in which it stated that the LFO had not been granted by “Administrative Silence” to developer Peñarroya for La Reserva de Marbella. The 29th of May 2006 a local legal report had already included La Reserva de Marbella’s Building Licence as one of many which were undergoing an administrative process that was reviewing it, being one of many Building Licences that were revoked by the Junta de Andalucía
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This is relevant to many other developments where the developer has argued that they are legal because because of the AS rule.
The tide is turning. 😆
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Just to say that I am always delighted when I hear that another person has had sucess and had their money refunded!
Congratulations Philit, I am pleased for you.
It also gives a positive outlook for all the people in the process of getting their money refunded.so I say….good news is always welcome because it gives more hope to others.
Congratulations Philip!!
from Bettyboo
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ASR = Administrative Silence Rule.
Put simply. The developer applies for the Licence of First Occupation* to the Town Hall. If they hear nothing after 3 months has lapsed then the developer can assume legality by the ASR rule. This has worked for years where there were no illegal planning issues. BUT.. where there are irregularities with the Building licence and it has been revoked, (as is the case in Marbella) the developer cannot assume legality with the ASR.
Many of the developers in and around the CDS choose to ignore this fact and pressurise people into completing on illegal developments saying they have the *LFO!
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Suzanne 😆 😆
Simply the best news for YOU SWEETIE ,hopefully me and many others.
This hopefully will be when the s–t will really start hitting the fan.
What are the views from the forum members that this ruling will have a direct effect on other developments or is it on a case by case basis.
Will this ruling really set the standards in law.?
If it does then it really is melt down time for the whole economy.
One question? Did this block have the A.S.rule as I understood that the architect was concerned regarding some of the blocks and refused to sign them over.
Others may have to be careful that this great news does not give them false hope? Me for one 😕Just Frank 8)
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Frank I think all cases are a one on one. As you have stated before, it’s not “one size fits all”. But Hey…it’s GOT to be good news for everyone in this situation. That feeling of hope and the possibility of justice in Spain springs to life again where, just lately, many struggled to feel the slightest bit optimistic, myself included.
I think if I were involved in this development, unless I was 110% sure my lawyer was up to the job of putting a strong case forward, I would look to change to a lawyer with a proven track record against the above company.
Others may have to be careful that this great news does not give them false hope? Me for one
C’mon Frank..who’s always harping on about ” being positive” 😀 Don’t go “Doom & Gloom” on me! 😉
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Thank you Frank 😀
The class action involved people in various Manzanas & Blocks at LR – I’ll check the exact ones for you. But as you & I are ‘in’ the same one, this ruling should also apply to you Frank. The bulding licences were granted ‘irregularly’ (hence the separate criminal case also) & were revoked some time ago. As both judges ruled (mine was a different Judge to the later class action) – the ASR does not apply.
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Suzanne
great news, at long last. And a kick up the bum to those who have said in the past that taking on the big boys is a waste of time and money, though i think their views have changed recently. (are you listening Frank?)
As we are using the same lawyers, and have our case coming up soon, it’s even more encouraging for us. They certainly have teeth!
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Suzanne – brilliant news! Am thrilled for you. I know only too well the relief and the feeling that finally you can start to move on with your life.
Having contributed so much to this forum, plus all your efforts with the petition and letter-writing, you certainly deserve it.
Hope the rate of exchange will also favour you 😉 , and if you do it all over again….wait for that bargain!!Next up – Goodstich and Frank. Look forward to reading similar news for your cases.
To complete this good news day……let’s have Boris for Mayor!!!!!
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Goodstitch 44
What the hell are you on about. :twisted:If you want to comment on my views ensure you have the facts right .
I AM FIGHTING MY CASE ALONGSIDE SUZANNE AND THE OTHERS. 😕
I am also involved on a daily basis helping people fight their corner against corruption and the system.
Just because I dont go around every day feeling sorry for myself sat on my arse doing nothing but moan and prepared to point that all is not bad in Spain dosent mean I am not aware of the overall picture.
As well you know I offered you help regarding your very case.
People need to be very aware that the tide may not be turning and like Suzanne and me if we win the case then its the ole appeal route and thats the very thing that causing so many problems.Just Frank 8)
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Thanks Charlie 🙂
Yep it does give me some hope as Suzannes is on the same block as mine.
They are trying the A.S rule as their case but this great news that they are failing in this instance.
Now all I have to do is wait until late 2008/09 and that fact that I have no garden and full bank guarantee that the developer insist is not honoured perhaps he may change his tune.
On at my solicitor now to see if she can put pressure on the Bank
Goodstich also has my total support against the company that I am involved with in doing my best to help a fair number.
Great news anyway and like most some good news is very welcome going into the bank holiday 😆
Yep Boris appears a real character and feel is not the idiot some portray to him be.
Lets face it anythings better than what we have at the moment.Just Frank 8)
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Hi Claire 😆
C’mon Frank..who’s always harping on about ” being positive” Don’t go “Doom & Gloom” on me!
Trust me this is the best news I have had for a very long time and what a great solicitor firm they seem to be.
No doupt our Suzanne supplied a lot of ammunition.
Up till this my hopes for success on this development regarding my case were that its going to fail like the rest we hear about,even though my solicitor is confident.( this has given me one great boost) 😆
BEST BEST.POSITIVE NEWS 😆 , just dont want to build my hopes up to much as we have seen the law can be an ass 😥
Does that sound negative 🙂 Its not meant to its just a case if something is going to go wrong it usually happens to me. 🙂
If I look at the world this way then the only way is up and thats why I keep positive. 😯
As I have said many times look after today and let tomorrow look after itself.
Right 😯 Now where did I leave those damn anti depresent pills and that large G+T 😉Just Frank 8)
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Suzanne what wonderful news for you and the other people involved, I am so very pleased for you all. Hope now they actually hand over the money! Lets hope that this decision is taken into acocunt when deciding the many other cases where people have been cheated by developers, lawyers and politicians.
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Just an update on my case. Still waiting for the Ruling on the Appeal by the developer, having won my case last November. We applied for an embargo on the developer’s assets but the Judge refused this.
However, the class action that followed mine some months later (same development, same lawyer) have been granted an embargo, while they also wait for the Appeal hearing. Better news for them, which came from a different Judge to the one I had.
Just goes to show, so much depends on the Judge.
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@Suzanne wrote:
Just goes to show, so much depends on the Judge.
…..or to put it more plainly, just goes to show which judges are corrupt/in league with the developer.
Having initially won your case, there is no ‘excuse’ whatsoever why your judge should not award you the ability to place an embargo while Pennaroya appeal.
As with so many judges’ decisions recently, disgraceful. -
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If the spanish government had any idea how low confidence was in the spanish building business then they would do something to re-assure investors that they would have proper protection.
I agree that there is NOTHING that can be done to ease the credit crunch for mortgage lenders, I agree there is nothing that can be done about the surplus of properties in the spanish housing market. But one thing the government HAS to do (and soon) is make a regulatory system which protects buyers from
a) builders/developers that go bust. Here I suggest a mandatory insurance scheme that all builders/developers have to use. This would be similar to the scheme used by holiday companies and protects the customers if the holiday company goes bust
b) Illegal builds. It should NEVER be the case that the buyer is left holding the baby if the developer does an illegal build. Legislation is needed to impound all company assets, closing the developer down if needed, if an illegal build is done. Better still, an independent watchdog has to approve EVERY single build project and the approval is binding.
As I have said before, irreparable damage has been done to the spanish building industry when the TV companies showed the bulldozers levelling luxury villas.
The reality, of course, is that nothing will be done and the spanish property market will be in the doldrums for the best part of the next decade. Prices will come down, how far ? maybe 50% or more before the next boom-to-bust property cycle can begin again.
property development ought to be the golden goose for spain, and with proper protection/legislation it could be. But right now they are the laughing stock of europe
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kingy: I agree with most of what you say, but I can’t go along with the point that the buyer is NEVER to be held liable.
What of the buyer who doesn’t get a lawyer? The buyer who chooses to pay ‘black money’ because he is getting a ‘deal’? The buyer who chooses to take a chance because it is cheap? The buyer who deliberately buys an illegal house because ‘every-one’ does it in this area & no-one is ever caught?
Not every buyer is innocent. Not every-one has been ripped off. Some (maybe not many) are architects of their own problems.
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kingy: I agree with most of what you say, but I can’t go along with the point that the buyer is NEVER to be held liable.
Perhaps Kingys theory was applied to the legitimate people who seemingly did all the right things but were screwed by their corrupt lawyers and the developers….along with the REAs involved in the triangle of deception.
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goodstich: perhaps you shoud re read kingy’s post. He did not qualfy his statement. He said illegal builds, the buyer should NEVER etc. My point was to qualify that statement, I certainly did not mean to insult those who are genuine losers. But to claim the people I mention are so few that it is not worth mentioning them is, quite frankly daft.
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rob6578
i stick by what i said. I’m sure Kingy is aware of the odd extreme case of stupidity by some people, not using a lawyer, buying a known illegal property etc. Why even mention them though?, i think it’s accepted they pretty well get what they ask for. In 6 years i have never come across anyone doing anything like this.
We all know the many cases of what he is talking about, and the devastating effect it has had, and will probably have for years to come, unless Spain changes its ways fast! His post was i think spot on.
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