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Trawling around the C. del Sol currently, staying here and there, I´m shocked by the level of shoddy construction down here still even with pricy properties.
The sound insulation in apartments is non-existant, conversations can be clearly heard as if next door people were in the same apartments, and this applies to 150k property as well as 500k property near Marbella, the plumbing is noisy and I´m told joints often burst letting water in, the render cracks and paint peels.
I wouldn´t advise anyone buying off-plan until they check this out, nor re-sales until they ask someone to go next door and run water, talk normally etc, and, ask existing owners too!
I thought Spanish Developers were supposed to have improved their build quality, it´s generally rubbish in adjoining properties.
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angie wrote:Trawling around the C. del Sol currently, staying here and there, I´m shocked by the level of shoddy construction down here still even with pricy properties.
The sound insulation in apartments is non-existant, conversations can be clearly heard as if next door people were in the same apartments, and this applies to 150k property as well as 500k property near Marbella, the plumbing is noisy and I´m told joints often burst letting water in, the render cracks and paint peels.
I wouldn´t advise anyone buying off-plan until they check this out, nor re-sales until they ask someone to go next door and run water, talk normally etc, and, ask existing owners too!
I thought Spanish Developers were supposed to have improved their build quality, it´s generally rubbish in adjoining properties.
I agree with most of your comments, some properties are well built ,but the majority are very poor. The point about noise is a very valid one , Spaniards in general are oblivious to noise, they walk on concrete floors the woman with high heel shoes ,clack,clack all the time never think about wearing slippers. Another phenomenon is furniture movements at 3am, always makes me wonder why they do it.
Mark has said on this forum Quality,Quality ,Quality should be the first rule before buying a property. It is difficult to find but not impossible. Always rent first for a year then consider buying, buying off plan was a licence to print money if one was in the know,but not now. Developers will be looking at ways to cut costs and faults will become even more of a problem, forget the 10 year guarantee thats another joke, if you tell them there is a problem they usually just laugh or send a man round with a bucket and a bit of sand and cement. That is if they even bother to call.
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One of the reasons that prompted me to move recently from my townhouse was the noise of moving furniture from the Spanish family next door, which occurred at all hours of the day and night. Also we could hear their tv and every time they flushed their toilet, this was on a development that was considered to be built to a good standard.
The problem is very widespread and its the last thing you want if your intention is to buy for retirement and to have some peace and quiet. -
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angie wrote:The sound insulation in apartments is non-existant, conversations can be clearly heard as if next door people were in the same apartments, and this applies to 150k property as well as 500k property near Marbella, the plumbing is noisy and I´m told joints often burst letting water in, the render cracks and paint peels.
Exactly the same is true about the Polaris World resorts.
More bad things:
– it took 3 days to heat the house properly with gas central heating
– the electric panel was failing when the eletric oven and 2 light bulbs were on (we needed to stay in darkness when cooking)
– in the garden there more weeds than grass
– the sinks were already exfoliating (the villa was 6 months old)It was the worst new build I have ever encountered in my life.
I stayed twice last year in Canary Islands in two 20 year old villas and they were immaculate so the bad workmaship must a new trend for Spanish property.
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Well here goes the balancing act. 😀
There are good developers and bad developers in any country,cowboy builders and conmen.
I have seen crap iin Spain.I have seen average and I have seen pretty good buildings
Many of the boxes they call houses on some devlopments in this country you can hear the next door neighbour fart.Frank 8)
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Very often a great looking apartment block of flats built in Spain will have incredibly poor sound insulation. I once rented a super newish flat and on the first night got woken by the flat next door having a love in. Walls are built with single bricks and because of the solid floors in the majority of these places, the sound just carries. It is true to say that Spanish people, in my experience, have a far greater noise tolerance.
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I have lived in four properties in Spain and noise has been an issue in all but my present property (villa) The Spanish system of building ie single hollow brick with no sound or thermal insulation is a recipe for damp and noise pollution.
Noisy neighbours can seriously damage the quality of life and lead to stress and ill health. -
Acoustic insulation requirements (presently the Norma Básica de la Edificación NBE-CA88 ) under the Spanish Building regs have long been acknowledged to be the “worst” in Europe
http://construible.es/noticiasDetalle.aspx?id=1021&c=1
Hope is on the horizon though!
There are new stricter regulations relating to sound insulation (HR-Protección Contra Ruido which will become part of the Código Técnico de la Edificación) which were published in the BOE in Oct 2007 and which will be in force within a year of that date.
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Another reason to hold back on buying anything ‘new’ until at least after October 2008 – as if one needed another reason. 🙄
Having said that, when developers disregard ‘the law’ when they don’t even build to original agreed-size as per contract (or building licence even) what makes anyone think they’ll be bothered about this new law.
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8) I´m glad others generally agree, I can´t believe the poor standard of build in Spain, obviously there are exceptions I suppose if you spend a million euros or more, but our friend in Los Monterros even has dodgy accoustic problems for neighbours and plumbing.
As for Just Frank´s balancing act, even the lesser UK developers have to conform to much higher levels of insulation and build qualty than in Spain.
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It appears that the minimum requirement for dividing walls between apts. and town houses in Spain is literally ONE brick, and that plumbing pipework does not need soundproofing with rockwool or similar either.
Have met many people who have bought off-plan without knowing the awful soundproofing problems until too late once they´ve moved in.
So it seems that Spanish property has not improved much since the rubbish constructed years ago, and of course the developers/promoters and many agents don´t tell you this. Look for these problems and ask plenty of questions as well as get everything in writing when viewing property.
Buyers Beware but also wait for further price drops/crash in Spain!!!!
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It appears that the minimum requirement for dividing walls between apts. and town houses in Spain is literally ONE brick, and that plumbing pipework does not need soundproofing with rockwool or similar either.
Have met many people who have bought off-plan without knowing the awful soundproofing problems until too late once they´ve moved in.
So it seems that Spanish property has not improved much since the rubbish constructed years ago, and of course the developers/promoters and many agents don´t tell you this. Look for these problems and ask plenty of questions as well as get everything in writing when viewing property.
Buyers Beware but also wait for further price drops/crash in Spain!!!!
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Angie 🙁
Think you may have got me wrong.
I have a problem with an apartment that it would take me hours to tell how bad it is and my feelings are that the whole development should be flattened (it will probably do that on its own anyway)
Having been in construction all of my life theirs bad in every country including and in particular the U.K
There is indeed so much rubbish thats been built over the past few years in Spain but some devlopments and developers do build well and have a good reputation and felt it right to point this out.Frank 8)
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Angie 🙁
Think you may have got me wrong.
I have a problem with an apartment that it would take me hours to tell how bad it is and my feelings are that the whole development should be flattened (it will probably do that on its own anyway)
Having been in construction all of my life theirs bad in every country including and in particular the U.K
There is indeed so much rubbish thats been built over the past few years in Spain but some devlopments and developers do build well and have a good reputation and felt it right to point this out.Frank 8)
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Angie 🙂
Point taken and agree that most of it is crap and needs pulling down but as mentioned there are some good devlopers and developments.
Agree though that it comes at a price normally however again there are a few that are O.K and perhaps some of the less affordable may soon be affordable soon,
I really do fear for the bottom end of the market in Spain as many properties will prove to be pretty worthless 😥
Yeh Wimpey would probably be better than most but I can assure you that there really is crap in this and most countries.Frank 8)
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I have met quite a few unlucky Brits and Dutch who definitely would not have bought their Spanish Dream properties had they known of the poor construction techniques and awful soundproofing, plus their new knowledge of robberies from developments, and, much higher service/community charges plus the punitive Spanish Wealth tax (even though their properties are not let). Many are trying to sell up but can´t because of the glut of other poo properties on the market. -
@angie wrote:
the punitive Spanish Wealth tax (even though their properties are not let).
Taxes on property for non residents are hardly punitive IMHO.
The tax on notional letting income is 24% of 2% of the valor catastral (so 1200€ on a 250k house) and wealth tax (patrimonio) is 0.2% (for a valor catastral up to 167k), 0.3% (from 167k to 334k) and 0.5% thereafter (so, about 584€ on a 250k house). Assuming a DECLARED valor catastral of 250k that is, often of course, it will be less.
By definition a non resident’s house in Spain is a second home and therefore a “luxury” item and furthermore, Spanish/resident 2nd home owners are taxed identically.
All taxes on property are thoroughly explained in any book about buying a home in Spain and so should hardly come as a surprise to buyers… -
Internal walls constructed of plasterboard skins with wooden or metal stud framework and although specified you might consider yourself lucky to find the walls had been insulated (so called tradesmen cut corners too), solid looking moulded doors that are actually pressed hardboard over a 2″x1″ frame with brass handles and fittings that will start to flake and discolour in 6 months, cheap tiles plastic baths……….. , and the list goes on, all the above is pretty much standard in new builds in the UK including those being built by Wimpy, looks good when new but I don’t know that I would call it quality.
And all will pass building controls.
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100% correct
Problem is that for whatever reason some think that some think that all bad properties and all the bad press you hear is just isolated to Spain
Good and Bad in everycountry. 😆
Thats why a record number with the money and past memories of the U.K are leaving
Most of our properties are now getting built by Eastern European labour and much of it on the black marketFrank 8)
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Any Tax on property mounts up even a notional Wealth tax for assumed rent which seems illegal of Spain´s Gov´t to charge if the property is not rented out. They get away with murder in Spain, it´s like Land Grab, it´s called money grab.
Out of all the civilised developed European Countries, because of the huge amounts of property involved, IMO Spain seems to be the Moooooooost corrupt country for flagrant violations of property matters. So far it has not become so large elsewhere, but I´m sure Spain´s role model is catching on now the crooked agents from Spain are moving elswhere.
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Same old drum again Frank on this one too.
Recently stayed in an apt. on Alhaurin golf. A more jerry built buch of apts. I’ve yet to see, hear, or smell.
You can here people not only next door, above you, below you, and even very clearly next door but one, even their blooming conversations from indoors.
They don’t know the meaning of ‘S’ bends in plumbing so the stench from waste under sinks and loos is disgusting, the party walls are single flimsy hollow bricks etc
Every other apartment it sems is on the market, each person I’ve met there is asking if i want to but their apartment. Some have been on since the build about 4-5 years ago.
Yet another reason either not to buy in Spain, or do your homework thoroughly, when you view, ask for proof of the build, send someone next door to talk, check the plumbing etc but still don’t believe the agent trying to tell you it’s wonderful, he’s only after his fat commission. Also check the cost of service charges which can be higher than you get told.
Now, does anyone know of similar or worse apartments in Spain than these, even Wimpey UK are luxury compared to these?
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Angie ❓
Previous post on this very subject and it appears I am banging the same drum on this issue 😉
Angie
Point taken and agree that most of it is crap and needs pulling down but as mentioned there are some good devlopers and developments.
Agree though that it comes at a price normally however again there are a few that are O.K and perhaps some of the less affordable may soon be affordable soon,
I really do fear for the bottom end of the market in Spain as many properties will prove to be pretty worthless
Yeh Wimpey would probably be better than most but I can assure you that there really is crap in this and most countries.Just Frank 8)
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Hi Angie
Yep in particular over the last 5 to 8 years as some of it is really very bad.
Some of what I have seen will never be standing in 20 years,or will be slum areas( I am fighting the developer and courts on one of these for the past 4 years where I have a deposit,its bloody aweful) however selected developments are not so bad, pretty good.Just Frank 8)
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