- This topic has 28 replies, 11 voices, and was last updated 17 years, 7 months ago by
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/property/main.jhtml?xml=/property/2007/05/12/pcosta112.xml
Property owners also face action from the Spanish and British tax authorities, who have stepped up their scrutiny of holiday rental websites if they fail to declare income from lettings.
Already several British investors in Majorca, the second most popular holiday-home market after the Costa del Sol, have fallen foul of Spanish law.
Londoner Tania Osbourne is appealing against a £20,000 fine for letting out her £200,000, two-bedroom flat on a complex in a popular Majorca resort for holiday rentals, after a Spanish neighbour tipped off the tourism authorities.
It’s a nightmare. Imagine what a constant barrage of articles like this is doing to sentiment. The surprise is how fast that sentiment seems to be turning. Does the newspaper have no respect for the companies that advertise their foreign investment properties with them? Or have those companies stopped advertising?
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I’m not sure I quite follow you mike. Are you suggesting that the newspapers should bury these nightmare stories because they rely on advertising revenue from the developers?
Don’t the newspapers have a reponsibility instead to their readers to expose the lies about “guaranteed rental income” that the developers make? By reporting factual accounts about what is going on in Spain, aren’t they safeguarding the man in the street from the propaganda pumped out by the developers and estate agents? -
They say:
“However, the vast majority of flats and villas cannot be offered for holiday rental, because the tourism authorities do not license them. And, even if official permission is sought, it is rarely granted.
“There are strict conditions before properties are approved for rental to holidaymakers,” says a spokesperson for the Spanish Ministry for Tourism. “Nearly all are not licensed, which means letting them to tourists is illegal.” “
I do not fully know the politics in Spain, but if it says that it is illegal, then it is illegal. The law in Spain should be as strong as the one in UK.
British people should obey Spanish rules when living in Spain.The Telegraph does an excellent job warning people against buying BTL properties which are not allowed to let. I wish I could read much more such informative articles.
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I thought that the laws in Majorca were different, and that rental properties had to be licenced, as mentioned in the article.
BUT is this the same all over Spain? Neighbours of mine rent out their house in the summer and, as far as I know, they pay non-resident tax which covers their rental income. However, do they have to have a licence for the house? If so, where do they get it from?
The area concerned is Costal del Sol, east of Malaga.
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In the Valencia region you have to apply to the tourist office to get a licence and far from being difficult to get they are relatively straightforward. You have an inspection to show your house complies with tourism regulations (Fire extinguishers, smoke detectors and other safety features such as pool safety etc). If it all stacks up you then pay your licence fee and are granted a licence.
Only in areas where there is a heavy hotel population are there any problems because naturally the local hoteliers association want exclusivity and they are a powerful body and tend not to want competition from private apartments.
As for it being only foreign owners who flout the law – what a complete and utter load of tosh. In my own little community of 14 adosados and 8 apartments, 7 dwellings are owned by foreigners and the rest are Spanish. Nearly all of them rent out in the Summer to tourists and none of them (as far as I am aware) have a tourist licence – bar 2 – both English.
Could this be – Ralita – you spouting off about dumb Brits yet again. Don’t know what Brits have done to upset you but it is clearly clouding any judgement you may have. Suggest you engage brain before opening mouth in future -or perhaps you are merely trying to start a flame war.
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vbtudor wrote:Could this be – Ralita – you spouting off about dumb Brits yet again. Don’t know what Brits have done to upset you but it is clearly clouding any judgement you may have. Suggest you engage brain before opening mouth in future -or perhaps you are merely trying to start a flame war.
Where did I say anything bad about Brits?????
From the article it seemed that some people were trying to cheat on the system in Spain. And they happened to be Brits…
What problem do you see with my message? Don’t you agree that people should pay the taxes if they buy properties abroad?
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@ralita wrote:
Where did I say anything bad about Brits?????
Yes, I do have better things to do with my time, but seeing as you asked:
Quote Ralita –
27 April
‘British people need a much better education in economic and, especially, Mathematics’
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29 April
‘I could not care less about Brits. I have to live among them as my job is better paid here than somewhere else. I can also observe the complete lack of financial and mathematics knowledge among the general people’ -
Mallorca has a particularly harsh regime for tourist rental licences. I haven’t had a chance to look into all the other regions.
The article talks about Mallorca and the ‘costas’, but only gives examples in Mallorca.
For more on the situation in Mallorca:
http://spanishpropertyinsight.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1557Mark
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Ra;ita
without wishing to start a war – it really isnt my way – but the majority of your posts have derided Brits. Suzanne quotes but two examples of which there are many more
You quote
From the article it seemed that some people were trying to cheat on the system in Spain. And they happened to be Brits…
But the Spanish never ever do, nor do the Germans, Dutch, French or Italians or pretty much any other nationality. Yet you choose to single out the Brits yet again.
What problem do you see with my message? Don’t you agree that people should pay the taxes if they buy properties abroad?
Yes of course I agree that people should pay taxes when they buy abroad – but does that exclude the locals WHO don’t pay those same taxes? As I said in the example I gave – of the people in my small community of which there are 22 dwellings, only 2 have a licence to operate as a tourist rental apartment – and both are Brits (one happens to be me) and the rest mostly are Spanish.
So is it ok for the Spanish to flout the law of the land (in their own land) and the Dutch Germans etc, but not the Brits.
Like I said – what is it that Brits have done to you to make you so anti Brits, and please don’t try to come across as holier than thou because your posts are very visible on this forum and very anti British. If you were in UK spouting off like you are about any other nation you’d probably be jailed for being a racist. And rightly so
So as I said in my previous post – perhaps you should engage brain before opening mouth – or letting fingers type away.
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Ralita – as you obviously suffer from short-term memory loss, you may find the ‘Search’ button helplful.
When Claire asked, surprised at your attititude, whether you were an EA , you replied:@ralita wrote:
What a great logic you have. Everybody who dislikes stupid Brits with their borrowed money is an EA , right?
…….meaning you are someone who dislikes stupid Brits with their borrowed money, but you are not an EA…..?
You also wrote:
@ralita wrote:
The only chance for professors at Univ. in Spain to buy anything is that these Brits are badly burned and they will need to sell at 50% of the price they paid.
I am keeping my fiongers crossed for that to happen as soon as possible.Charming!
Considering you were recently asking questions about buying land and building a house, I do hope you are not planning to invest in property in Spain and therefore help price-out the locals from getting a foot on the ladder.
Or is it acceptable for a foreigner like yourself to invest in Spain, as long as you are not a (stupid) Brit? -
@forestfire wrote:
I’m not sure I quite follow you mike. Are you suggesting that the newspapers should bury these nightmare stories because they rely on advertising revenue from the developers?
Hi, Forestfire, no I’m not suggesting that they bury these stories, I’m suggesting that they would be reluctant to spread negative stories about companies from whom they get advertising revenue. I understand that broadsheet readers are the typical target market for Spanish developers.
@forestfire wrote:
Don’t the newspapers have a reponsibility instead to their readers to expose the lies about “guaranteed rental income” that the developers make? By reporting factual accounts about what is going on in Spain, aren’t they safeguarding the man in the street from the propaganda pumped out by the developers and estate agents?
I agree that they do have that responsibility. Most of the articles I read prior to this year would at some point in the piece warn the investor that Spanish property investment does not always run smoothly and advise them to buy through an experienced, English speaking, estate agent.
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@mike wrote:
…..warn the investor that Spanish property investment does not always run smoothly and advise them to buy through an experienced, English speaking, estate agent.
Been there, done that…….and got the court case 🙁
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charlie
…….and how many more of us? I think English estate agents are amongst the worst, they often take advantage of the mis-placed trust that many english people put in those who speak in the same tonque. I would say don’t trust any of them, and only use those that you know have been trustworthy, by word of mouth from someone you know and can trust with first hand experience of them.
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charlie wrote:Considering you were recently asking questions about buying land and building a house, I do hope you are not planning to invest in property in Spain and therefore help price-out the locals from getting a foot on the ladder.
Or is it acceptable for a foreigner like yourself to invest in Spain, as long as you are not a (stupid) Brit?There is a big difference between having real money( and using them to buy or build property) and using MEW money. I do the research and homework and never get into trouble with my purchases. Before purchasing I always know everything about the place, including the language, future developments and quite detailed prediction for future growth.
As opposed to me, many people go to property shows and leave deposits for off-plan in places they never heard about, in countries they do not speak the language. Why do they doi this? Because it is not their money but the bank’s money.
I hope I explained myself in good detail.
Abot “foot on the ladder” – this is really a funny expression people use in UK and explains the obsession with brick and mortar.
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@ralita wrote:
I do the research and homework and never get into trouble with my purchases. Before purchasing I always know everything about the place, including the language, future developments and quite detailed prediction for future growth.
Ralita – you started a thread & asked 4 questions here:
http://www.spanishpropertyinsight.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2292
to which you received a very thorough & generous reply given by someone with a lot of experience in Spanish property but you did not respond to it. Maybe you sent a PM of thanks? -
@ralita wrote:
The only chance for professors at Univ. in Spain to buy anything is that these Brits are badly burned and they will need to sell at 50% of the price they paid.
I am keeping my fingers crossed for that to happen as soon as possible.So you are, as a foreigner, considering investing in Spain. Bit hypocritical aren’t you – what about your poor professor friends at Univ??
Be careful your wish for us all to get ‘badly burned’ doesn’t come and give you a bite on your botty. 😀As for a ‘foot on the ladder’ being a ‘really funny expression’, I’ve got an even funnier one for you:
“Those in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones…..”In case you don’t know what that means, I believe it has something to do with hypocrisy……. 🙄
Funny, innit! -
charlie wrote:ralita wrote:The only chance for professors at Univ. in Spain to buy anything is that these Brits are badly burned and they will need to sell at 50% of the price they paid.
I am keeping my fingers crossed for that to happen as soon as possible.So you are, as a foreigner, considering investing in Spain. Bit hypocritical aren’t you – what about your poor professor friends at Univ??
Be careful your wish for us all to get ‘badly burned’ doesn’t come and give you a bite on your botty. 😀As for a ‘foot on the ladder’ being a ‘really funny expression’, I’ve got an even funnier one for you:
“Those in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones…..”In case you don’t know what that means, I believe it has something to do with hypocrisy……. 🙄
Funny, innit!Listen Einstein, for you it seems to be quite difficult to understand the difference between
purchasing with funnny money by MEW-ing and building something.I do not plan to use any easy money as I have my own money to buy land and build a house. But I shall only do it after the prices come down.
My friends want to buy an already build house/apartment because they do not have the luxury to pay for both rent and building at the same time.
If you use your brain and read what I wrote, hopefully the confusion is gone.
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I’ll forgive you for that one as what you wrote is simply sheer ignorance. You know nothing about me – or the financial situation I was in when I bought in Spain.
Just to give you a hint – no ‘funny money’ was involved – just good hard-earned cash in the bank with the sale from my UK house.
So suggest you take Vince’s advice. Put your brain into gear before opening your mouth.Let’s see if you can work this one out all by yourself – whether a foreigner buys into the Spanish property market with cash or borrowed money, it is irrelevant re. the impact outside-investment has on a country’s property market.
And try and hold on to this thought – many many Brits sold up in England to make their Spanish purchase with the cash. So just like you, my little foreign-invester-in-Spain……they are also paying cash.
Read, digest – and see if you can get a better handle on things. Am afraid you are just as guilty as anyone re. pushing prices up for the locals.
What does seperate you from the Brits is that you have a tendancy to be extremely rude, even when you don’t know what you are talking about.
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charlie wrote:I’ll forgive you for that one as what you wrote is simply sheer ignorance.
So suggest you take Vince’s advice. Put your brain into gear before opening your mouth.
What does seperate you from the Brits is that you have a tendancy to be extremely rude, even when you don’t know what you are talking about.And you are very well mannered, indeed.
I did not attack you but look what you wrote, mr. brainless Charlie Chaplin.
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Suzanne wrote:ralita wrote:I do the research and homework and never get into trouble with my purchases. Before purchasing I always know everything about the place, including the language, future developments and quite detailed prediction for future growth.
Ralita – you started a thread & asked 4 questions here:
http://www.spanishpropertyinsight.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2292
to which you received a very thorough & generous reply given by someone with a lot of experience in Spanish property but you did not respond to it. Maybe you sent a PM of thanks?These were the most naive “advices” I have ever received. Any 5 year old living in Spain could have given me those “advices”.
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@Claire wrote:
I do not know why any of you are bothering to respond to ralita. (apart from entertainment value. 😀 )
No-one has responded for several hours up until now.
Ralita has been allowed to be consistently insulting & offensive on this forum, and as Vince said if her rants here were against any other nation she would find herself in a lot of trouble. I certainly don’t find this entertaining at all.
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Claire/Suzanne
i wonder if these people are regarded as self regulating, as few would take such biased and selfish views seriously anyway? If nothing else, perphaps it provides a yardstick for people to measure the posts from fair thinking helpful people, to those at the other end who are just spouting mis-guided rubbish.
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From “Einstein” 😀 ……. to mr. brainless Charlie Chaplin 🙁 …..all in one evening.
Goodness, life on this www. is tough…Actually, ‘Charlie’ is the name of my dog. Better not tell him about the ‘brainless’ bit – he’s a sensitive little chap.
And Vince….writer of some of the most informative posts on this forum….am DEVASTATED for you. If you feel the need to form a little ‘Hurt Feelings’ support group with me and Charlie, we’re there for you – OK?
Ralita – you say “Before purchasing I always know everything about the place, including the language, future developments and quite detailed prediction for future growth”.
Crikey – you must have a private line to God. Care to share the telephone number? -
Hi Charlie
no need to be devastated. I take what Ralita says with a pinch of salt – which is about the worth of his comments . As an ex submariner I have had insults from intelligent people who knew what they were talking about – and still don’t get offended – especially when the person insulting lacks any kind of comprehension of basic human decency or intelligence – in spite of his/her protests to the contrary
Therefore I see it merely in the same way as when a fly lands upon my shoulder – a minor inconvenience at that moment in time but certainly nothing to worry about.
What I have noticed in the past on forums is that people who try to start flame wars only have fuel when someone reacts. If someone has something valid to say then respond – if he doesn’t and is just inviting reaction then ignoring him will make his comments impotent
But nonetheless thanks for the support
Best wishes
Vince
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@charlie wrote:
And Vince….writer of some of the most informative posts on this forum….am DEVASTATED for you.
Mark – what we need is a tongue-in-cheek emoticon…..!
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