[Anonymous]

Hello all

I found this casa on the web, and I need to know what are all the gatchas. It looks too good to be true and probably is.

http://www.fotocasa.es/anuncio-casa-venta/torrox-urbanizacion-picaso-det__121221658-1-1-2-724-1-29-142-0-29091-29793.aspx?opi=1&llci=0

It looks like a planned commnity, I am not too familiar with this type of homes.
Any info, pros and cons will be very appreciated

Thank you all
David

[Anonymous]

Check:

1. There are no plans for anything to be built infront thus losing your view. Who owns the land infront?
2. That it is not affected by the coastal law (built too near the sea) which they are now applying rigourously.
3. Building licence + LFO all issued.
4. Check with local Town Hall their future plans of the area (possible sewage works, rubbish tip planned to be built nearby?!).
5. Ask the Town Hall’s planning dept. for their comments on the property’s ‘legal status’.
6. Employ a good recommended lawyer who has enough teeth that he can at least eat an apple comfortably.

As has often been said here, if it looks too good to be true, it usually is.

[Anonymous]

Charly.

Thanks for the reply, unfortunately I do not speak Spanish, and I do not know of any Lawyer, Nor do I know anyone there.

That is the reason I turned to the forum in hope that perhaps someone may have had some info on this type of property.

Thanks again

[katy]

Looks sort of…..ok. for the price 😕 Property is lower in Torrox so wouldn’t say it looks a bargain. Only has one bathroom and that is unusual in newer properties. There could be a massive complex next door with about 50 balconies overlooking the terrace, hard to know from just a webpage 😉

[Anonymous]

Hello Katy

It looks like a planned community, do you think those are separate houses, or appartment like?
As for one bath only , I have no issue with that, just two of us for retirement.
I do not speak Spanish, and it is hard for me to connect with the selling agent to ask questions, hard also to do research on this or any properties.

Thanks for your reply

David

[Anonymous]

bentdavi – seems a high risk strategy to even consider properties purely on the basis of website information – at this moment in time in Spain. You need to do a lot of research about the area that the property is in as there are mega pitfalls to buying “sight unseen”. There are a number of websites where you can get information about individual areas and developments in Spain. And there are many English speakin g lawyers who could help you. Look at other threads on this website.

You need to be able to visit and “see the goods” on offer. If the property is on a Community – there will be Community fees to pay each year in addition to your outlay costs in buying.

[Fuengi (Andrew)]

If I had to guess.

the property itself has no views. They would have clearly shown a photo fro mteh terrace, etc.. with the view, so there is no mistake.

It does appear to be an urbanisation. Notice the photo of the roof terrace, the other houses and the rising roofs? if you at the top great, if not there are proably more houses behind.

easy access from the road to the pool area.

The only shot of hte inside is of the kitchen? Not normally a good sign when the don’t show the lounge, bedrooms, etc…

roof terrace again. Either the owner is a foreigner, shadow of satelite dish, or the neighbours look right over that terrace.

photo pf the stair case. again see house after house going up the hill? also appears there are alot of houses after that one on sale.

hope this helps

[katy]

Good thinking Sherlock 😀

[Fuengi (Andrew)]

thanks kati

@ bentdavi,

its taking me all of 5 minutes to find the property.
click the link that says mapa
switch to satelite view
move the image down to the see front and then move the image a few frames to the right.
until you come to an urbanisation with a small circular pool and a L shaped pool. That where the house is located.
Notince the huge plot of land in front…
also behind the poo a row of houses with roofs. so not hte one on sale.
behind those are houses with roofs terraces. the house in question
If you you notice on hte photo of the shot of the terrace a house in the view has a solar panel? On hte row of town houses behind the pool near the end there is a house with a small solar panel (only one in the row) the house on sale will be behind that.

so no views and a walk to the pool

[Anonymous]

and its 2k cheaper on this site…
http://www.idealista.com/pagina/inmueble;jsessionid=0A073A9827F6606E40DFB20F25BF70DA.acaps3?codigoinmueble=VW0000001726360&numInm=8&edd=list
😀

[Anonymous]

Hi David – good to see you are getting some ideas !

My honest opinion would be for you to rent for a while and watch the prices plummet. The spanish property market is sat on 2 million unsold homes and once the extent of the over supply situation is fully capitalised I expect prices to drop another 30-40% below what they are today.

Question to the team. Does Inez, or any of the group have someone that could get David in touch with somone to talk him through this one to one. It is clearly a big step to take from the USA and must be daunting at the same time. David, I think you would benefit from a trip over to see things, make some contacts, drink some good wine. Someone in the forum can recommend you a good lawyer, but I would honestly say you should rent rather than buy yourself into negative equity. I will buy myself, but in a falling market you have to resist the temptation to jump in. Stick your cash in the bank, rent, and for a few hundred dollars a month you can live stress free in a beautiful country. You like warm weather – give the canary islands a thought if you like a warmer winter.

Best, kingy

[Anonymous]

I would like to thank you all.

What does urbanization means?

Besides those few points that everyone pointed out.

Is the house worth it?
I would like to take a shord week next month and visit it. Do you think it is worth my time?

Does anyone think that I can find something close to that price and close to the Sea, as this one is?

Thanks a Bunch

Best Regards from Scottadale

[Anonymous]

David – Kingy is absolutely right in his advice to rent/wait. The National Statistics Office has just announced that August house sales in Málaga are down by 50 percent compared to August last year – am sure this trend will be reflected round the country. The repercussions re. house-sale prices are obvious and will only get worse before it gets better. Even developers are said to have no choice but to make a sacrifice and reduce prices in an attempt to reactivate the market which is down 37% nationally.

Sit tight with your money is my advice – maybe some members on this forum who are in the business could keep an eye out for you.
The mantra in these times is….. there is no hurry and when you do buy ensure it has been built by a reputable builder. Damp and all the other potential construction problems (as well as the “is it legally built” aspect) do exist in Spain.

For the kind of money being asked, am sure you will find a nicer property that actually has some views. If you look at the ‘Private Sales’ section on this forum, it will keep you up to speed as to what kind of property is available and price.

[Fuengi (Andrew)]

@bentdavi wrote:

I would like to thank you all.

What does urbanization means?

Besides those few points that everyone pointed out.

Is the house worth it?
I would like to take a shord week next month and visit it. Do you think it is worth my time?

Does anyone think that I can find something close to that price and close to the Sea, as this one is?

Thanks a Bunch

Best Regards from Scottadale

Urbanisations: the equivalent of gated/ungated communities. Can be houses or apartments
Is it worth it. Based on the photos i would say no. It claim 140m2 built. If that was the case there would be photos, and you can see by the arial shots they look nowhere close to that. I would guess the roof terrrace is included in the m2. So its only 70m2 built.

looking at the meterage and considering the area, ameneties, etc.. i don’t see the value.

Get a clear idea of what you want, then come down for a whole week minimum. If you intend to use real estate agent, contact several, one per town/area. tell them your requirements and ask them to send you the property details. shortlist and give each one X time to show the list.

[Anonymous]

Hello Bentdavi,

My husband and I want to buy in an area of Spain that we have identified and we live in Seattle. We don’t know anyone in this area. So we are in a somewhat similar position to you, although we are looking for isolated property, not in an urbanization-type community with others close by.

We will not be buying for a few years at least; instead we are spending a lot of time doing research. Here are some of the things we are doing:

1. We have read this forum and other Spanish property forums every day for almost two years.

2. We have bought and read some books like David Hampshire’s Buying A Home In Spain, which I think would be very informative for you. It defines terms like “urbanization,” which we do not have in the U.S., and also discusses many of the different areas you might consider looking in. If you bring up Hampshire’s book on Amazon, it will show you other similar books. I’d suggest getting a range of them.

3. We have visited Spain three times over the past few years for several weeks at a time. We have eliminated two areas we were originally interested in and have now stayed focused for the past year and a half on an area we like. We have visited that area twice.

4. While there, we have met with several realtors who speak English, been driven around and looked and and videotaped several properties, have visited the small towns in the area, and gotten a feel for it.

5. I have been taking Spanish classes for a year and have gotten to low intermediate level, enough so that I can communicate over the phone (still a little bit scary though!) in Spanish, make reservations, order food, ask questions, and other things in Spanish.

6. We have cruised useful property websites like kyero.com for over three years, plus through searching on the web I have identified smaller real estate companies serving the area we are interested in, and have met with some of those people in Spain and tracked their offerings for the past year and a half.

7. I have tracked down the local newspapers for the area we are interested in, including expat oriented news outlets, and have been reading them for a year and a half. The internet can translate the Spanish ones into English for you and though it won’t be perfect you will get the gist. You will understand sentences like “residents of X town in uproar over planned garbage dump near X urbanization.”

8. Through the internet I have found some people who live in the area I’m interested in and I have corresponded with them.

9. Even with all this research, when we move to Spain in 3 or 4 years (providing we get a job, as visas to live in Spain are very difficult to obtain for U.S. citizens) we will STILL rent in the area we are interested in. Although an airport is being installed in this region for the first time and we are hearing that land prices will rise, we will not let this rush us. So what if we pay $10K more, even if we do it’s still worth it to know we got the right property.

10. We are lucky enough to have a friend whose job relocated him to Spain and then he married a Spanish (Catalan) woman. Now he lives in her Catalan town where her whole family lives. We have become friends with her and her family and they are now getting on board with this idea of helping us. So, the point here is to tell everyone you know about your plan to move to Spain, then they will tell you if they know anyone in Spain, then you can make friends with them, and you will have contacts in Spain. In this way you go from knowing no one to knowing people in Spain!

A final note is that this is a huge project, even more so from the United States (not to diminish the challenges faced by those from other parts of the E.U. who have had such problems in Spain). It is doable but I think what will help us the most is the fact that I just love projects. This is a colossal project and I throw myself into it because it is fun. Each thing I have described is a truly fun hobby for me. I don’t think I would ever put all this energy into it if I didn’t enjoy this research. So I suggest you ask yourself whether you enjoy this type of project. If so, you can do the kinds of things I’ve suggested to drastically increase your chances of a successful move to Spain. If not, you may want to question whether this is biting off more than you can chew. Maybe look at something in Latin America? Many U.S. people go to Latin America and it will be easy to find others in the U.S. who have done it and can guide you. Also, with a project of this type, you cannot be a shy wallflower. You must get out there and ask questions, start conversations, call people up, and look at it as a voyage of exploration where all feedback is useful no matter the form it takes.

Good luck! You have a lot of work ahead of you, but I think it’s fun work! I hope you do too.

Sherry

[Anonymous]

Sherry: No, research is enough in any field. By the time you will be there in three to four years time, your research will be hopelessly out of date.

Gaining half decent employment in Spain is a pipe dream until of course your company transfers you. Starting your own business is not feasible either, apart from having a niche product/service and not to mention the law, taxation, civil service, working practises etc.

Finally, while living in the middle of no where is very romantic etc. It is very unsafe & if you need to excess hospitals etc in emergency it could be a matter of life and death.

Finally, will you still leave the USA if Obama wins ???????????

[katy]

For Urbanisations just read “gated communities” sure y’all know what they are in the USA!

[Anonymous]

Let me put it this way, I am fed up with both candidates , every two years we get two years of Campaining.
Lies on both sides, deception, and they are becoming a Pain in my derriere. Enough is enough.

Why can’t we get a chance to vote for an independant.

I am just being very polite, I have other adjectives for both of those candidates.

Best regards
David

Would I still leave …. YESSSSSSS. LOL

[Anonymous]

Hello Sherry

Thanks for your help, WOW , I am in awe that you took the time to write this note , and I thank you very much for it.

I too started to take Spanish, (Rosetta Stone 1,2,3) I am on 1 only. LOL.

I have travelled around the world with my work, and my Wife and I zeroed in on Andalucia, Malaga area. I work for IBM as a Consulting Architect, and did major projects around the world.

we did visit that area twice. I can’t wait for retirement to move there (4 years to go)
I do appreciate alot you sharing anything you can.

We are planning to be there in May, for a month, and I surely would like to buy something then. Unless I find the “Can’t live without Casa” then I will fly in for a week to buy.

Please stay in contact. bentitou@us.ibm.com.

Incidentaly, one of my sons live in Seattle. He lives in Bellevue, and works for TMobile as a VP.

If you travel to Arizona , be sure to call us and stop by ” Lets break Bread” LOL

Best Regards

David

[Anonymous]

Bentdavi,

I will keep in contact. It’s great that you’ve visited the area you’re interested in several times. I would again suggest that you not go with an objective to buy within a particular limited timeframe, especially in this falling market. Perhaps you could have an interim goal like finding particular developments that you are interested in, by checking them out thoroughly. If you develop a list of ones that you think have real potential, you can then spend some more research time checking them out very thoroughly over the next year or two.

Just my two cents worth.

Shakeel, I appreciate your protective instinct. Do not worry, as a career researcher I promise you my research will not be totally out of date in 3 or 4 years because I will not stop researching! LOL!

Having also researched visa regulations and Spanish hiring habits I know how hard it is to get hired there without an EU visa. But I also know people who have done it and I have a strategy that is a lot more realistic than starting my own business or something farfetched like that. Thanks for making sure that I don’t have delusions of opening a bar or something like that! I’m targeting a subspecialty of usability engineering that has a good market in Barcelona, and I have some connections.

Obama is a great guy but the U.S. is like a huge ocean liner; slow to maneuver. Even if he gets in with a landslide that will not put money in our coffers any day soon, fix our broken health care system, shut up the religious wackos, fix terrifyingly unfit infrastructure, refund our bankrupt social security pension system or build public transit, just for starters. I don’t make quick decisions based on transient realities.

Having grown up in rural areas in the U.S., I didn’t realize I was in such danger by being a few miles from a medical office! Distances to a U.S. person and distances to a European may be perceived quite differently! My inlaws in Montana are in their 80s and their doctors and hospital are 70 miles away. I think we will be fine living 3 or 5 kilometers from a village!

Thanks,
Sherry

[Anonymous]

Shakeel – got to say, i did find your post a little patronizing.

Anyone who has clearly taken the time to undertake extensive research, and log into the forum everyday, is hardly going to close the book and wait for four years thinking that the world in spain has stood still.

And gaining half-decent employment being a pipe-dream. Maybe you have had trouble personally – but a pipe dream. Come on!

As for the perals of living in the country – are you for real?

Anyway, i’m sure your post was not meant to offend. 😉

[Anonymous]

marcoloco10,
People log onto this forum & others for guidance & share other peoples experience. If you think that can be construed as patronizing that is fine by me.

The visitors to the forum are at all levels i.e. starting out, experienced, besides the sentiments, motives etc do not come across as they are/were intended to be.

Personally, I rather not be sorry & be happy to be patronized as these are big decisions. In my experience people with qualification, experience, vocation could not find a job in their field & had to look elsewhere, that is perhaps one of the big factors in many turning into a estate agents and opening bars.

Sherry: I agree with your Ocean liner remark. Obama or who ever it is will take time to steer the course. After all it took all this time to get here in the first place.

[Anonymous]

Shakeel – i don’t doubt your motives. However, i do think that you’ve got to give people a litte more credit – especially those considering moving from the USA to Europe. Not a minor relocation.

The qualities required to plan for, and ultimately embark on such a project, demonstrate to me that the indivual concered is a well prepared, postive thinking person and would have sufficent skills that would enable them to flourish in their lives and careers regardless of the location.

I do not need to remind you that many international companies are located in spain offering positions to non-spanish. Also, with the use of the internet people no longer need to be chained to a desk or work in an english speaking bar in order to gain employment.

Again, i’m not attempting to rile you – i just think that your post, whilst written with the best of intentions, was a little patronising.

[katy]

I don’t think Shakeel was being patronising, just realistic.

not need to remind you that many international companies are located in spain offering positions to non-spanish.

Give some examples of those who do and to people are not fluent in the language. No-one will ever be fluent with Rosetta Stone!

[Anonymous]

Speaking from experience, i’m a surveyor, i’ve been approached (and alerted to opportunites by others) on a number of occaisions about the possibility of working in the commerical property sector in Spain. I do similar in the UK. The opportunities have been with global companies such as CB Richard Ellis, Cushman & Wakefield and similar.

Often, the Spanish language is not essential but a willingness to learn is required. The reason for this is that many of those clients associated with property investment on a commerical scale (hedge funds) are global clients and the reports are often actually presented in both English and Spanish.

I have ex-colleagues that have moved within my profession to Spain, Italy, Poland and Russia – all without being fluent in any of the above languages.

So – there you go. A little more positivity – you’ll be surprised what you can achive. 😉

[Anonymous]

Marcoloco: I have no more to add. I am pleased that you thought my post was for best intentions and to me that counts, patronizing or not !

[Anonymous]

At the end of my first day of training in a firm of Accountants. My Partner called me in to ask me how did I got on. After telling him that it was OK, he told me to remenber two things.

1) What ever I do I must leave a note in the file. Me being me, asked him why ? He said if I got run down by no 19 Bus, he should know, what I did and where I was. I felt really charmed, that he did not care about me but more about his file.

2) I should treat everybody as an idiot and should not give them the benefit of any intelligence or knowledge, As intelligence & knowledge can be subject/profession base & intelligence can be relative.

Looking back he was correct & professional.

[Anonymous]

To be humble as a person is a great thing; a quality not easily obtainable.

Treat people like idiots – and they’ll act like idiots.

Treat people with respect and you receive respect in return.

So simple really. 😉

[Anonymous]

@marcoloco10 wrote:

To be humble as a person is a great thing; a quality not easily obtainable.

Treat people like idiots – and they’ll act like idiots.

Treat people with respect and you receive respect in return.

So simple really. 😉

But Enough about ME ,
lets talk about You,
what do YOU think of ME ?

😆

[Anonymous]

@SherryfromSeattle wrote:

Bentdavi,

I will keep in contact. It’s great that you’ve visited the area you’re interested in several times. I would again suggest that you not go with an objective to buy within a particular limited timeframe, especially in this falling market. Perhaps you could have an interim goal like finding particular developments that you are interested in, by checking them out thoroughly. If you develop a list of ones that you think have real potential, you can then spend some more research time checking them out very thoroughly over the next year or two.

Just my two cents worth.

Shakeel, I appreciate your protective instinct. Do not worry, as a career researcher I promise you my research will not be totally out of date in 3 or 4 years because I will not stop researching! LOL!

Having also researched visa regulations and Spanish hiring habits I know how hard it is to get hired there without an EU visa. But I also know people who have done it and I have a strategy that is a lot more realistic than starting my own business or something farfetched like that. Thanks for making sure that I don’t have delusions of opening a bar or something like that! I’m targeting a subspecialty of usability engineering that has a good market in Barcelona, and I have some connections.

Obama is a great guy but the U.S. is like a huge ocean liner; slow to maneuver. Even if he gets in with a landslide that will not put money in our coffers any day soon, fix our broken health care system, shut up the religious wackos, fix terrifyingly unfit infrastructure, refund our bankrupt social security pension system or build public transit, just for starters. I don’t make quick decisions based on transient realities.

Having grown up in rural areas in the U.S., I didn’t realize I was in such danger by being a few miles from a medical office! Distances to a U.S. person and distances to a European may be perceived quite differently! My inlaws in Montana are in their 80s and their doctors and hospital are 70 miles away. I think we will be fine living 3 or 5 kilometers from a village!

Thanks,
Sherry

Sherry

One thing I do know for sure I am not an appartment leaving person, even if it is located in the front of the beach, and almost given away price.

I am more in a Villa type, , we do need a little space between neighbors.

By the way , I am still trying to understand the difference between a PISO, and an appartment.

Also, I just needed to add that my wife’s Father was born in Ronda, Andalucia, so we do have a litle tie to that area.
Additionaly, We lived in multiple countries. France, Morocco, Israel, So we are used to packup and go. (we were younger then) 😆

Have a great weekend all.

Au revoir, Shalom, Salam, Adios, Bye.

[Fuengi (Andrew)]

@bentdavi wrote:

But Enough about ME ,
lets talk about You,
what do YOU think of ME ?
😆

the name bentdavi. If your name is davi, having ‘bent’ in front of it is probably not the best of ideas… 🙂

[Anonymous]

@Fuengi wrote:

@bentdavi wrote:

But Enough about ME ,
lets talk about You,
what do YOU think of ME ?
😆

the name bentdavi. If your name is davi, having ‘bent’ in front of it is probably not the best of ideas… 🙂

David Bentitou (French name)

[Author]

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