My developer wil be at least 12, probably 14 months overdue on completion.
The property is smaller than proposed
The environment is not what it is supposed to be
I want to withdraw from the deal as I consider the contract to be void
A solicitor was recommended to me. I sent the papers to him over 2 weeks ago and he has not even read them yet
I will also be bringing an action against the UK agent who I feel has been complicit in the deception, has taken funds from me under false pretences and is liable under the Misrepresentation Act. However this will be a separate action to the Spanish claim
Given what I hear about Spanish law and lawyers I reckon I will probably have more sucess with the UK action but nevertheless I need to take action in Spain
I need a lawyer who is prepared to do something. I’m not being unreasonable. I feel totally impotent at the moment.
Has anybody any ideas or recommendations. If so can you please get back to me asap
Many thanks
Nigel
We used Lex-Marbella and I would definately not recommend them. We were buying at El Soto De Marbella until we finally got our money back. They were the lawyers recomended by Grupo Mena (the developers) so not independant!
We used Lex-Marbella and I would definately not recommend them. We were buying at El Soto De Marbella until we finally got our money back. They were the lawyers recomended by Grupo Mena (the developers) so not independant!
Having looked at the above website, I downloaded the Buyers Guide. On page 4, “Purchasing a property on a new development” it states:
Many developers offer these bank guarantees free of charge, others make a percentage charge. ❗
We have discussed so many times on the forum that BG’s should be given by law when purchasing an off plan property…free of charges.
It also states:
In the unlikely event that the developer does not finish the property or goes into liquidation, all funds will be returned in full with 6% interest
I recently emailed a lawyer who had written an article for”eye on spain”. where he quoted the 6% interest. I said that it was somewhat misleading whilst in Spanish law they may say that it is 6% when in reality it seems impossible to achieve this. I was very bluntly told that all his colleagus in law firms in Marbella regularly achieve this 6%!!, that he researches his facts carefully and implied I should not dare to question his word.!! 😳
Both Drakan & Cesar (lawyers) have told us that it is the legal annual interest rates that lawyers work too. ie the legal bank rate.
How then do these companies get away with this “misleading” information?
Barbara & I were not awarded 6% on our Bank Guarantees. No compound interest is paid and as I write 34 days after the Bank paid our money (over £200,000) into the Court in Madrid, we, nor our Lawyer has received one cent of this money. The Court is still sitting on it. 😈 In 13 days time the Court will close for all of August.
I truly despair of the Spanish legal system.The written law is one thing …the reality is quite different. 😥
Knowing what I know now, I would question the above lawyer on these two facts alone.
Having looked at the above website, I downloaded the Buyers Guide. On page 4, “Purchasing a property on a new development” it states:
Many developers offer these bank guarantees free of charge, others make a percentage charge. ❗
We have discussed so many times on the forum that BG’s should be given by law when purchasing an off plan property…free of charges.
It also states:
In the unlikely event that the developer does not finish the property or goes into liquidation, all funds will be returned in full with 6% interest
I recently emailed a lawyer who had written an article for”eye on spain”. where he quoted the 6% interest. I said that it was somewhat misleading whilst in Spanish law they may say that it is 6% when in reality it seems impossible to achieve this. I was very bluntly told that all his colleagus in law firms in Marbella regularly achieve this 6%!!, that he researches his facts carefully and implied I should not dare to question his word.!! 😳
Both Drakan & Cesar (lawyers) have told us that it is the legal annual interest rates that lawyers work too. ie the legal bank rate.
How then do these companies get away with this “misleading” information?
Barbara & I were not awarded 6% on our Bank Guarantees. No compound interest is paid and as I write 34 days after the Bank paid our money (over £200,000) into the Court in Madrid, we, nor our Lawyer has received one cent of this money. The Court is still sitting on it. 😈 In 13 days time the Court will close for all of August.
I truly despair of the Spanish legal system.The written law is one thing …the reality is quite different. 😥
Knowing what I know now, I would question the above lawyer on these two facts alone.
A good lawyer that gets results doesn’t come cheap. You get what you pay for. The c*** lawyer we first had was VERY expensive.. and they landed us in deep ****. 😈
A good lawyer that gets results doesn’t come cheap. You get what you pay for. The c*** lawyer we first had was VERY expensive.. and they landed us in deep ****. 😈
You know Paul, I wouldn’t use a lawyer based in Marbella. I know that is a sweeping statement, but I think they are all part of “the ol’pals club!” They all know each other. That’s just my opinion.
Maria did well for Cazybianchi… I would certainly talk to her.
You know Paul, I wouldn’t use a lawyer based in Marbella. I know that is a sweeping statement, but I think they are all part of “the ol’pals club!” They all know each other. That’s just my opinion.
Maria did well for Cazybianchi… I would certainly talk to her.
Hi Nigel, if you want a UK based lawyer that deals with a lot of Spanish property and is represented in Spain (sometimes easier re phoning etc)
then Champion Miller and Honey in Tenterden, Kent and ask for Ian Miller (sen partner) since he also owns a property in Spain and knows the pitfalls as well as most.
I have experience of a lawyer in the Province of Cadiz who I found to be efficient and professional. Send me a private message and I can pass on her details to you/ we could chat on the phone. I have worked all my life in property and am more than amazed by what goes on here.
If a lawyer manages a 6% interest he deserves a medal for finding a stupid developer. That law is almost 40 years old and it musn´t be taken literally, because it was passed in a Dictatorship and now we live in a Democracy with annual budgets wich set the annual legal (delay) interest.
Developers are anything but stupid and will only pay maximum what they are legally obliged to, which is more or less 4.5% for this year. No more and certainly willing to pay less. If a lawyer is promising 6% or he is completely biased or he doesn´t know what he´s talking of, IMHO.
A follow up to my first message. See you are a Chartered Surveyor. So was I from 71 to 94 before resigning to do property restoration. I live in Spain. Hope to hear from you.
Nigel – look at the website “recommended” list. I’m sure you will find a lawyer there to meet your needs.
I have used one of Lawbird’s lawyers for both house purchase and litigation. I have found them to be very effecient and not unreasonably priced. Look at the http://www.lawbird.com website
Yes if you look at the website the lawyer that I recommended to the thread originator is on the Trevor Mc Donald programe (Antonio Flores)on the 28th of July,its about the Marbella planning situation.
Goodstich, I´m with you here…unless there is something going on in the background with the PMs, all that Maria appears to have done is to get hold of the contracts of Spains behalf, and with their permission, from David and offer to give a legal interpretation of them. Spain was interested enough in the development to try and find out more through the forum and Maria was acting on Spains behalf…
David: Are you accusing Maria of being dishonest as she said Spain was her client? I can´t see what other problem there is.
I think it would have been better if she had PM´d this information to Spain but looking at it positively, you come accross in a good light as you have shown that you answer enquires quickly and try and provide the requested information to prospective clients.
Not sure what you are rambling on about her heather but to sum up, David was aiming to promote a development with unrealistic expectations and maria offered to find out more info. which showed as most of us thought that rental guarantees are worthless, thanks to Maria. David is just a bit peeved because he’s been rumbled.
David, IMO, Maria is no more devious than the programme makers that go “undercover” to various companies in Spain, to get the info they want. It seems to me that is the only way to get info as, if one presented oneself in their “true colours” they would be told nothing!!!
I think Maria should be congratulated for taking the time & trouble to help “spain”.
My issue with Maria was she contacted me and said that she was looking to buy in the development and wanted more information.”
I am going to be a little tough on you here, David.
Maria was only employing one of the tactics people use who are involved in client research. Pretending to be a punter!
Sometimes it is the only way to put oneself in a customer’s position, and see how a particular company behaves.
Even Egon Ronay restaurant inspectors use this method. They don’t declare who they are. If they did, they would only get served ‘the best grub!”.
I employed the same tactic with the (‘Orrible Exceptional’) estate agents to see if they were still plugging a new development giving my developer’s name as the one whose development it was. (They weren’t in fact ‘legally’ the developer, they had formed a baby company as a front if anything went wrong, as on my developement – but try to lull people into thinking they are buying from the big parent company).
“I happily gave her the information as it was provided to me from Paris.”
That smacks to me a little of “I gave Maria the information, but if any of it is false, it is only what I am told by Paris.
“At all time she claimed that she was either looking to buy or was looking to buy on behalf of clients”.
Personally, if I still had my market research company, I would offer her a job!
“She refused to answer calls when I left them and when she did speak to me she was evasive and non committal”.
Sounds like Maria is just keeping up the Spanish tradition of lawyers, estate agents and developers……. 😉
“She posted emails on this site that I had no knowledge of, not that I am worried about the content but it would have been courteous to have asked”.
Free publicity David!!! Whichever way you look at it (courteous or not) it is free publicity!! A promotor’s dream……as long as there is nothing to hide.
This forum is read by thousands each month.
“Hence my point, to me she is as devious as any other lawyer that plies the trade and uses this forum to drum up trade”.
I look at it a different way – as devious as any other lawyer/agent/developer……I’m afraid your profession has exactly the same reputation ‘that plies the trade’.
“If I offend anyone then I apologise, but those are my feelings towards your ´independant legal adviser´”
Everyone is entitled to their opinion on this forum – I just feel your timing is a little unfair as Maria made it clear last week that she is now away on holiday, and consequently is unable to speak for herself.
I am working with Pierre Vacances on the development. Maria contacted me and stated that she had clients looking to purchase and wanted more information.
She never answered phone calls and I only got her because her colleague passed on a mobile, she then became evasive and did not answer my questions directly.
I was more than happy to provide the information and did so as the information was provided.
The development is strong and backed by one of Europes largest leisure providers.
It would appear that you are distrusting of the property market and do not accept guarantees when they are provided and legally and financially underwritten.
I have not been rumbled in any way, if anything Maria has as she posted private information without the courtesy of a call or answer any of my emails or phone calls directly
Katy,……It would appear that you are distrusting of the property market and do not accept guarantees when they are provided and legally and financially underwritten
.
Gosh! 😯 I wonder why that would be!!!
David you are just another agent selling another new project. Rightly or wrongly, people are sceptical. Forums like this have woken a lot of people up to the corruption & scams taking place in Southern Spain. Maybe your development is OK but you and others in your occupation will be caught in the backwash of the current tide, I think.
You are of course right and I understand that they market has its share of dodgy operators and bad developers, however not all are.
I could turn the story the other way and say that all investors who have been robbed or treated badly is actually a naive or greedy investor that has caught a cold.
However that is not the case, as many people have been treated really badly by both agents and developers.
Please remember not all agents or investment companies in the UK are bent!
dont forget that many hundreds of thousands of people move to Spain each year from all over the world and on the whole, the vast majority of those people are happy…
that does sound rather like sales talk, even outside the forum, i have heard very few positive comments about buying new in spain in the last few years. At best it seems problematic, at worst disasterous. I’m sure many people are happy, but the ‘vast majority’ ……..i don’t think so?
On BBC world news this morning it said that the Spanish housing industry was in trouble because so many Spanish people are reneging on their mortgages, unable to pay them.
I wonder how long it will take for “personal baggage” to be discarded.
Feedback about personal experiences is extremely useful in building up a broad picture enabling individuals to make informed decisions – on this site – about buying property in Spain.
My personal view is that it is counter productive to villify everything about Spain as part of what appear to be some personal crusades.
I too have had bad experiences in the property market – in UK – in Cyprus and in Spain. (And I have lost money as a result of these experiences). I am still positive – have bought in Spain – have a good lawyer – and love the country and the people!!
perhaps? ..always some winners in a bad situation.
Maybe you missed my meaning, which is I don’t believe all I hear or read in the news. There is lots of evidence to suggest (on this site in fact) that the situation is not that dire. It is also news we hear in the UK almost weekly about the UK market but I see no drop in prices do you?
i agree, in fact i’m driving down to spain on a 2 week camping holiday (costa brava), so still keeping the faith!, however, i speak as i find, and despite having had many good times staying and touring round spain on mortorbike and in car and meeting some lovely people, my 4 year nightmare on CDS has left me feeling angry about the spanish system and the way the developers have got away with daylight robbery for so long. I dont think that’s unreasonable. Like many people, i hang on to the thought it will all come right in the end.
Spain is a huge country.
The CDS just a small part and for some reason I don’t understand draws people like magnets . Forgive me for generalising but my impression of the area is that it is the home of the rich and famous English crooks and as such has never appealed to us. Maybe this is why the Mayor and his associates in Marbella became corrupted. So much flashy tastless wealth from ill gotten gains. The corruption is not new news has been ongoing for many years.
This in no way excuses the rogue developers but it should make people extra cautious and although pockets of similar activities in other places in Spain the country in general is more honest than not.
The vast majority of people I know,and there are many,in the other areas of Spain are all happy. Not everyone had an easy transition but all live in legal homes and I have yet to meet one who would return to UK.
I think this forum is excellent, the best, for telling how it is for many who attempt to buy in Spain and things go disastrously wrong through no fault of the buyer I was simply pointing out that there are good stories as well and one has to keep things in perspective.
If people are honest !! I bet there is hardly anyone who has bought in Spain who hasn’t had serious concerns. How ever much info you devour and checking there is also something one hasn’t counted on. We did but not all of Spain has had the catastophic problems as CDS.
I often point folk to this forum because this is the place for things to be sorted out by the legal experts and for free.
Spain is a fabulous place to go on holiday. We go twice a year(+ the other trips inbetween to see the lawyer!!) Where we go we have made many friends and the Spanish people are always so friendly. BUT….We would NEVER trust the property market there ever again. Once bitten, twice shy!
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