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Hi. Whilst I’ve been tracking this forum for some months now, this is my first posting! I’m hoping that all of you regulars can give me your valuable input.
For the past couple of years we have been considering purchasing a property in the Murcia region with a view to buying later this year. Initially, our thought process was to buy into a Polaris World type development which had a lot of appeal.
However, we subsequently discovered the La Manga Club Resort, (not the strip) and fell in love with it. Whilst it appeared to be very expensive by comparison to similar property at Polaris World (broadly speaking double the price!), we have since revisited La Manga Club on a number of occasions, doing our homework and renting various types of property.
Our conclusions are that, other than the big issue of very high prices, we feel comforted by the fact that this is a long established resort, with seemingly a good reputation, offering very high quality amenities, and importantly, it is a completed development!!! We really like the feel of it as a place to eventually retire to.
The major issue for us is that like most other areas along the Costas, there is a HUGE amount of property now for sale at La Manga Club, with pretty much nothing appearing to sell at all during 2007, and now resulting in some price reductions starting to appear, particularly at the lower end of the market. (up to £250K)
My real question is: By how much do you think a La Manga Club location could drop in value over the next few years, particularly when surrounded by mile upon my of incomplete Polaris World type developments in and around the Costa Calida. My own view is that undoubtedly there is a major “train wreck” ahead & I’ll be surprised if Polaris World survives beyond 2008. But at what cost will the fall out be to an established location like La Manga Club? 😥
As cash buyers, we now think we are best to hold off buying in La Manga Club in the hope that in a couple of years we can buy there at a really big discount on today’s prices.
Many thanks in advance for your views.
Jim
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Sun Seeker wrote:Hi. Whilst I’ve been tracking this forum for some months now, this is my first posting! I’m hoping that all of you regulars can give me your valuable input.
For the past couple of years we have been considering purchasing a property in the Murcia region with a view to buying later this year. Initially, our thought process was to buy into a Polaris World type development which had a lot of appeal.
Congratulation on not buying in Polaris World. We stayed one week in December and it really was a junky place (18 km from a decent supermarket, 22 km from the beach,
surrounded by plantations with the corresponding invasion of flies, bad quality building falling apart after 6 months).La Manga Strip seemed to be a region where everybody was selling. Hundreds of apartment buildings had tens of “Se Vende” signs each. I am not sure about higher class properties, but the average ones seemed to burden their owner pockets…
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Sun Seeker wrote:Hi. Whilst I’ve been tracking this forum for some months now, this is my first posting! I’m hoping that all of you regulars can give me your valuable input.
For the past couple of years we have been considering purchasing a property in the Murcia region with a view to buying later this year. Initially, our thought process was to buy into a Polaris World type development which had a lot of appeal.
Congratulation on not buying in Polaris World. We stayed one week in December and it really was a junky place (18 km from a decent supermarket, 22 km from the beach,
surrounded by plantations with the corresponding invasion of flies, bad quality building falling apart after 6 months).La Manga Strip seemed to be a region where everybody was selling. Hundreds of apartment buildings had tens of “Se Vende” signs each. I am not sure about higher class properties, but the average ones seemed to burden their owner pockets…
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Hi Ralita.
Yes, we are really glad that we stayed well clear of Polaris World. I really fear for those developments. We have driven along the La Manga Strip often enough and you are right, lots up for sale but I think “the strip” is mainly spanish owned second homes. La Manga Club Resort is very different!
Jim
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Hi Ralita.
Yes, we are really glad that we stayed well clear of Polaris World. I really fear for those developments. We have driven along the La Manga Strip often enough and you are right, lots up for sale but I think “the strip” is mainly spanish owned second homes. La Manga Club Resort is very different!
Jim
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Hi Jim, it wont be easy to guage a price drop as each property is different and also each owner. Some will HAVE to sell, others wont and will not reduce their price. If you can find out what they sold for off plan then target properties with an offer hovering around that price, someone may jump.
It may take time or you may get one quickly form someone deciding to cut their losses and get out.
The majority probably bought by placing down 20-40% cash deposits and the rest financed (in general) so you could try and cut into some of the capital.
As you will be keeping it for a while, best not to grab a seemig bargain that doesnt have quite what you want and be prepared to wait forthe right property.
Just because surrounding developments are unfinished is not an indicator – it will just mean finished matured resorts will hold their price as people will prefer to buy there instead.
Good luck -
Hi Jim, it wont be easy to guage a price drop as each property is different and also each owner. Some will HAVE to sell, others wont and will not reduce their price. If you can find out what they sold for off plan then target properties with an offer hovering around that price, someone may jump.
It may take time or you may get one quickly form someone deciding to cut their losses and get out.
The majority probably bought by placing down 20-40% cash deposits and the rest financed (in general) so you could try and cut into some of the capital.
As you will be keeping it for a while, best not to grab a seemig bargain that doesnt have quite what you want and be prepared to wait forthe right property.
Just because surrounding developments are unfinished is not an indicator – it will just mean finished matured resorts will hold their price as people will prefer to buy there instead.
Good luck -
Hi
Having sold Polaris World I would give it a miss as they promised clients the earth to get the sale and have not come up with the goods.
Having said that nor have a great majority of other developments.
Prices on Polaris may take a big knock as I saw many investors buying in blocks of 10 (they then price to sell quick)Frank 8)
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Hi
Having sold Polaris World I would give it a miss as they promised clients the earth to get the sale and have not come up with the goods.
Having said that nor have a great majority of other developments.
Prices on Polaris may take a big knock as I saw many investors buying in blocks of 10 (they then price to sell quick)Frank 8)
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Just Frank wrote:Hi
Having sold Polaris World I would give it a miss as they promised clients the earth to get the sale and have not come up with the goods.
Having said that nor have a great majority of other developments.
Prices on Polaris may take a big knock as I saw many investors buying in blocks of 10 (they then price to sell quick)Frank 8)
Spain is in the doo doo, offer 50% of the price you are offered a property at and think about buying it. Steer clear of Polaris World at any price.
Mr Cobbler can talk his tripe and dream his dreams, Spain is in big big trouble. As ever CAVEAT EMPTOR.
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Just Frank wrote:Hi
Having sold Polaris World I would give it a miss as they promised clients the earth to get the sale and have not come up with the goods.
Having said that nor have a great majority of other developments.
Prices on Polaris may take a big knock as I saw many investors buying in blocks of 10 (they then price to sell quick)Frank 8)
Spain is in the doo doo, offer 50% of the price you are offered a property at and think about buying it. Steer clear of Polaris World at any price.
Mr Cobbler can talk his tripe and dream his dreams, Spain is in big big trouble. As ever CAVEAT EMPTOR.
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Thanks all.
Does anyone have any specific knowledge or views on La Manga Club Resort – not to be confused with La Manga which is about 5km away?
It is quite a large mixed residential development, with three golf courses, tennis courts, five star hotel, shops, restaurants etc which was started in the 60’s, flourished in the 80’s & 90’s and is now compared to the size of Monaco!
Thanks
Jim -
Thanks all.
Does anyone have any specific knowledge or views on La Manga Club Resort – not to be confused with La Manga which is about 5km away?
It is quite a large mixed residential development, with three golf courses, tennis courts, five star hotel, shops, restaurants etc which was started in the 60’s, flourished in the 80’s & 90’s and is now compared to the size of Monaco!
Thanks
Jim -
Hi Jim,
I know the La Manga Club quite well.
You are right to note that La Manga and Polaris are worlds apart.
Even if the surrounding markets collapse, I imagine La Manga will hold its ground better than the rest. If you want quality in that area it’s your best option, with the exception of Hacienda del Alamo if you want inland. I expect a flight to quality as people finally realise that buying property is a really big deal, and you had better get it right or else. I expect other developers will start to fold, which should increase the number of buyers prepared to pay a premium for safety and quality. And there is a very limited supply of good stuff around (be careful though, there is bound to be plenty of crap within the resort too – you have to evaluate every single property on its own merits).
Nevertheless, I’m expect prices to drop there over the next year, maybe longer. As you say, there is plenty on the market in La Manga, little of it selling, which suggests prices will have to come down. The coming months will reveal which vendors are serious about selling, and which are simply flying a kite. And if there is a train wreck, then prices will almost certainly come down, though in La Manga’s case I would expect them to fall less and rebound quicker than other resorts in the area.
Sounds like you aren’t in a hurry, so if I were you I would just wait and see for now. Use the time to keep a close eye on the market, what sells, what doesn’t, find out who needs to sell and who doesn’t, and be in a position to move when you see an opportunity at a price you think is good value. No rush, as this buyer’s market is going to last AT LEAST a year in the quality segment, much longer in the rest of the market.
Just my thoughts, and of course I could be wrong.
I had the best curry in all of Spain in the La Manga Club, in the Indian restaurant at the top of the hill by the spa. Not easy to find a good curry in Spain.
Mark
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Hi Jim,
I know the La Manga Club quite well.
You are right to note that La Manga and Polaris are worlds apart.
Even if the surrounding markets collapse, I imagine La Manga will hold its ground better than the rest. If you want quality in that area it’s your best option, with the exception of Hacienda del Alamo if you want inland. I expect a flight to quality as people finally realise that buying property is a really big deal, and you had better get it right or else. I expect other developers will start to fold, which should increase the number of buyers prepared to pay a premium for safety and quality. And there is a very limited supply of good stuff around (be careful though, there is bound to be plenty of crap within the resort too – you have to evaluate every single property on its own merits).
Nevertheless, I’m expect prices to drop there over the next year, maybe longer. As you say, there is plenty on the market in La Manga, little of it selling, which suggests prices will have to come down. The coming months will reveal which vendors are serious about selling, and which are simply flying a kite. And if there is a train wreck, then prices will almost certainly come down, though in La Manga’s case I would expect them to fall less and rebound quicker than other resorts in the area.
Sounds like you aren’t in a hurry, so if I were you I would just wait and see for now. Use the time to keep a close eye on the market, what sells, what doesn’t, find out who needs to sell and who doesn’t, and be in a position to move when you see an opportunity at a price you think is good value. No rush, as this buyer’s market is going to last AT LEAST a year in the quality segment, much longer in the rest of the market.
Just my thoughts, and of course I could be wrong.
I had the best curry in all of Spain in the La Manga Club, in the Indian restaurant at the top of the hill by the spa. Not easy to find a good curry in Spain.
Mark
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@mark wrote:
I had the best curry in all of Spain in the La Manga Club, in the Indian restaurant at the top of the hill by the spa. Not easy to find a good curry in Spain. Mark
Hmmm….One of the best I’ve had was in fact a spit and saw dust place in Gibraltar a few weeks back.
May be if most of the properties for sale could be converted into curry houses it would prop up the market at the moment and help boost the economy??? I’d certainly love one to open here in Sanlucar, still I’ve heard of a good one in Cadiz….curry report to follow!
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@mark wrote:
I had the best curry in all of Spain in the La Manga Club, in the Indian restaurant at the top of the hill by the spa. Not easy to find a good curry in Spain. Mark
Hmmm….One of the best I’ve had was in fact a spit and saw dust place in Gibraltar a few weeks back.
May be if most of the properties for sale could be converted into curry houses it would prop up the market at the moment and help boost the economy??? I’d certainly love one to open here in Sanlucar, still I’ve heard of a good one in Cadiz….curry report to follow!
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Hi Mark,
@mark wrote:
Sounds like you aren’t in a hurry, so if I were you I would just wait and see for now. Use the time to keep a close eye on the market, what sells, what doesn’t, find out who needs to sell and who doesn’t, and be in a position to move when you see an opportunity at a price you think is good value.
Thats right. We are going to take our time, but pop over to rent different properties from time to time whilst we keep our eye on the situation. Before the momentum of the “soft landing” gathered pace, we were quite set on looking to buy this year. Now, as the “train wreck” is unavoidable, we think it would be mad to do so.
@mark wrote:
I had the best curry in all of Spain in the La Manga Club,
Oh Dear! How we need our “home” comforts !!! 😉
Thanks. Great site!
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Hi Mark,
@mark wrote:
Sounds like you aren’t in a hurry, so if I were you I would just wait and see for now. Use the time to keep a close eye on the market, what sells, what doesn’t, find out who needs to sell and who doesn’t, and be in a position to move when you see an opportunity at a price you think is good value.
Thats right. We are going to take our time, but pop over to rent different properties from time to time whilst we keep our eye on the situation. Before the momentum of the “soft landing” gathered pace, we were quite set on looking to buy this year. Now, as the “train wreck” is unavoidable, we think it would be mad to do so.
@mark wrote:
I had the best curry in all of Spain in the La Manga Club,
Oh Dear! How we need our “home” comforts !!! 😉
Thanks. Great site!
-
ian_ok wrote:mark wrote:I had the best curry in all of Spain in the La Manga Club, in the Indian restaurant at the top of the hill by the spa. Not easy to find a good curry in Spain. Mark
Hmmm….One of the best I’ve had was in fact a spit and saw dust place in Gibraltar a few weeks back.
May be if most of the properties for sale could be converted into curry houses it would prop up the market at the moment and help boost the economy??? I’d certainly love one to open here in Sanlucar, still I’ve heard of a good one in Cadiz….curry report to follow!
If you want curry houses the place to move to is Benidorm, there are 7 or 8, all terrible but a wide choice nevertheless.
Think the best curry I have eaten outside the UK in a restaurant that is , is in Albufeira on the Algarve ,one is on the strip and the other on the main road, absolutely superb both of them.
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ian_ok wrote:mark wrote:I had the best curry in all of Spain in the La Manga Club, in the Indian restaurant at the top of the hill by the spa. Not easy to find a good curry in Spain. Mark
Hmmm….One of the best I’ve had was in fact a spit and saw dust place in Gibraltar a few weeks back.
May be if most of the properties for sale could be converted into curry houses it would prop up the market at the moment and help boost the economy??? I’d certainly love one to open here in Sanlucar, still I’ve heard of a good one in Cadiz….curry report to follow!
If you want curry houses the place to move to is Benidorm, there are 7 or 8, all terrible but a wide choice nevertheless.
Think the best curry I have eaten outside the UK in a restaurant that is , is in Albufeira on the Algarve ,one is on the strip and the other on the main road, absolutely superb both of them.
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Hi, we own an apartment at La Torre which I have to say we are very, very happy with, I do appreciate that it may not be to everyone’s taste, horses for courses and all that, in fact we rented several apartments and villas at the La Manga club as this was our first choice but eventually decided it was not for us (congratulations to sun seeker by the way for finding somewhere he loves which I think is what it’s all about) we found the bars and restaurants to be much too quiet all year round for our taste and the airport journey a bit of a drag as we can only fly out for short visits.
I would like to ask ralita what he/she meant by “junky place” and maybe point me in the direction of the “bad quality buildings” that are falling apart, the build quality at La Manga is definitely no better than that of La Torre even though twice the price.
Although there are a number of investors “property experts” who bought blocks of properties at La Torre in order to make a quick killing and have now come unstuck, there are also a large number like me who bought their little place in the sun as a holiday home, and some as their only home, La Torre isn’t quite finished yet but as far as I am aware Polaris have delivered everything they promised.
May I ask that when some of you “property experts” talk about Polaris world and La Torre in the same way you might talk about a piece of dirt you remember that you are talking about someone’s home, and it’s not always just about the big bucks, unless you want me coming around to your house with a note pad passing comments? -
Hi, we own an apartment at La Torre which I have to say we are very, very happy with, I do appreciate that it may not be to everyone’s taste, horses for courses and all that, in fact we rented several apartments and villas at the La Manga club as this was our first choice but eventually decided it was not for us (congratulations to sun seeker by the way for finding somewhere he loves which I think is what it’s all about) we found the bars and restaurants to be much too quiet all year round for our taste and the airport journey a bit of a drag as we can only fly out for short visits.
I would like to ask ralita what he/she meant by “junky place” and maybe point me in the direction of the “bad quality buildings” that are falling apart, the build quality at La Manga is definitely no better than that of La Torre even though twice the price.
Although there are a number of investors “property experts” who bought blocks of properties at La Torre in order to make a quick killing and have now come unstuck, there are also a large number like me who bought their little place in the sun as a holiday home, and some as their only home, La Torre isn’t quite finished yet but as far as I am aware Polaris have delivered everything they promised.
May I ask that when some of you “property experts” talk about Polaris world and La Torre in the same way you might talk about a piece of dirt you remember that you are talking about someone’s home, and it’s not always just about the big bucks, unless you want me coming around to your house with a note pad passing comments? -
lindmark wrote:ralita- which polaris resort did you stay on,also do you think it was polaris worlds fault for your invasion of flies.
La Torre resort.
It was of course not Polaris World fault, excerpt the fact that the resort is surrounded by orange trees which determine a strong fly activities.
In 1 week we had to spray about 4 containers of anti-fly substances and it was stil almost hopeless.
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lindmark wrote:ralita- which polaris resort did you stay on,also do you think it was polaris worlds fault for your invasion of flies.
La Torre resort.
It was of course not Polaris World fault, excerpt the fact that the resort is surrounded by orange trees which determine a strong fly activities.
In 1 week we had to spray about 4 containers of anti-fly substances and it was stil almost hopeless.
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kw wrote:Hi, we own an apartment at La Torre which I have to say we are very, very happy with, I do appreciate that it may not be to everyone’s taste, horses for courses and all that, in fact we rented several apartments and villas at the La Manga club as this was our first choice but eventually decided it was not for us (congratulations to sun seeker by the way for finding somewhere he loves which I think is what it’s all about) we found the bars and restaurants to be much too quiet all year round for our taste and the airport journey a bit of a drag as we can only fly out for short visits.
I would like to ask ralita what he/she meant by “junky place” and maybe point me in the direction of the “bad quality buildings” that are falling apart, the build quality at La Manga is definitely no better than that of La Torre even though twice the price.
Although there are a number of investors “property experts” who bought blocks of properties at La Torre in order to make a quick killing and have now come unstuck, there are also a large number like me who bought their little place in the sun as a holiday home, and some as their only home, La Torre isn’t quite finished yet but as far as I am aware Polaris have delivered everything they promised.
May I ask that when some of you “property experts” talk about Polaris world and La Torre in the same way you might talk about a piece of dirt you remember that you are talking about someone’s home, and it’s not always just about the big bucks, unless you want me coming around to your house with a note pad passing comments?Where should I start with La Torre Resort?
-The electric panel was falling just by turning the oven and 3 lights on.
– The garden was full of weeds, very little grass
– the external walls were exfoliating
– the bathrooms were falling apart.
– the gas central heating was very uneffective. It took ages to have a decentr temperature in the house eventhough oputside were about 7 Celsius at night.
– the walls provide very little noise isolation, never in my life have been able to hear from outiside every little noise from inside the house.For a 270K Euros property, it is really amazing how could they build something like this…
Of course, it might be that the place we stayed was a lemon…
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kw wrote:Hi, we own an apartment at La Torre which I have to say we are very, very happy with, I do appreciate that it may not be to everyone’s taste, horses for courses and all that, in fact we rented several apartments and villas at the La Manga club as this was our first choice but eventually decided it was not for us (congratulations to sun seeker by the way for finding somewhere he loves which I think is what it’s all about) we found the bars and restaurants to be much too quiet all year round for our taste and the airport journey a bit of a drag as we can only fly out for short visits.
I would like to ask ralita what he/she meant by “junky place” and maybe point me in the direction of the “bad quality buildings” that are falling apart, the build quality at La Manga is definitely no better than that of La Torre even though twice the price.
Although there are a number of investors “property experts” who bought blocks of properties at La Torre in order to make a quick killing and have now come unstuck, there are also a large number like me who bought their little place in the sun as a holiday home, and some as their only home, La Torre isn’t quite finished yet but as far as I am aware Polaris have delivered everything they promised.
May I ask that when some of you “property experts” talk about Polaris world and La Torre in the same way you might talk about a piece of dirt you remember that you are talking about someone’s home, and it’s not always just about the big bucks, unless you want me coming around to your house with a note pad passing comments?Where should I start with La Torre Resort?
-The electric panel was falling just by turning the oven and 3 lights on.
– The garden was full of weeds, very little grass
– the external walls were exfoliating
– the bathrooms were falling apart.
– the gas central heating was very uneffective. It took ages to have a decentr temperature in the house eventhough oputside were about 7 Celsius at night.
– the walls provide very little noise isolation, never in my life have been able to hear from outiside every little noise from inside the house.For a 270K Euros property, it is really amazing how could they build something like this…
Of course, it might be that the place we stayed was a lemon…
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ralita, did you buy your fly spray from the well stocked polaris supermarket on la torre or did you travel the 18 km for a decent supermarket,,
@ralita wrote:@lindmark wrote:
ralita- which polaris resort did you stay on,also do you think it was polaris worlds fault for your invasion of flies.
La Torre resort.
It was of course not Polaris World fault, excerpt the fact that the resort is surrounded by orange trees which determine a strong fly activities.
In 1 week we had to spray about 4 containers of anti-fly substances and it was stil almost hopeless.
-
ralita, did you buy your fly spray from the well stocked polaris supermarket on la torre or did you travel the 18 km for a decent supermarket,,
@ralita wrote:@lindmark wrote:
ralita- which polaris resort did you stay on,also do you think it was polaris worlds fault for your invasion of flies.
La Torre resort.
It was of course not Polaris World fault, excerpt the fact that the resort is surrounded by orange trees which determine a strong fly activities.
In 1 week we had to spray about 4 containers of anti-fly substances and it was stil almost hopeless.
-
ralita wrote:kw wrote:Where should I start with La Torre Resort?
-The electric panel was falling just by turning the oven and 3 lights on.
– The garden was full of weeds, very little grass
– the external walls were exfoliating
– the bathrooms were falling apart.
– the gas central heating was very uneffective. It took ages to have a decentr temperature in the house eventhough oputside were about 7 Celsius at night.
– the walls provide very little noise isolation, never in my life have been able to hear from outiside every little noise from inside the house.For a 270K Euros property, it is really amazing how could they build something like this…
Of course, it might be that the place we stayed was a lemon…
I have stayed in many properties in Spain (including the La Manga club resort), that have all the defects and problems you have listed, I do have some knowledge of construction and to be honest have never been overly impressed by the Spanish builder, having said that I haven’t noticed any of those problems at La Torre, though to be fair I can only comment on my own property, which I do maintain.
So, perhaps an unmaintained lemon as you put it, I’m sorry for that but I wouldn’t want readers to get the wrong impression, there are a lot of happy punters living on La Torre, a lot of unhappy ones too, but isn’t that true of anywhere we choose to live? -
ralita wrote:kw wrote:Where should I start with La Torre Resort?
-The electric panel was falling just by turning the oven and 3 lights on.
– The garden was full of weeds, very little grass
– the external walls were exfoliating
– the bathrooms were falling apart.
– the gas central heating was very uneffective. It took ages to have a decentr temperature in the house eventhough oputside were about 7 Celsius at night.
– the walls provide very little noise isolation, never in my life have been able to hear from outiside every little noise from inside the house.For a 270K Euros property, it is really amazing how could they build something like this…
Of course, it might be that the place we stayed was a lemon…
I have stayed in many properties in Spain (including the La Manga club resort), that have all the defects and problems you have listed, I do have some knowledge of construction and to be honest have never been overly impressed by the Spanish builder, having said that I haven’t noticed any of those problems at La Torre, though to be fair I can only comment on my own property, which I do maintain.
So, perhaps an unmaintained lemon as you put it, I’m sorry for that but I wouldn’t want readers to get the wrong impression, there are a lot of happy punters living on La Torre, a lot of unhappy ones too, but isn’t that true of anywhere we choose to live? -
lindmark wrote:ralita, did you buy your fly spray from the well stocked polaris supermarket on la torre or did you travel the 18 km for a decent supermarket,
I did not buy a single item from the Polaris Supermarket because the prices were more or less double as compared to the Dos Mares supermarket.
And yes, I bought the expensive ones.
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lindmark wrote:ralita, did you buy your fly spray from the well stocked polaris supermarket on la torre or did you travel the 18 km for a decent supermarket,
I did not buy a single item from the Polaris Supermarket because the prices were more or less double as compared to the Dos Mares supermarket.
And yes, I bought the expensive ones.
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kw wrote:So, perhaps an unmaintained lemon as you put it, I’m sorry for that but I wouldn’t want readers to get the wrong impression, there are a lot of happy punters living on La Torre, a lot of unhappy ones too, but isn’t that true of anywhere we choose to live?
Probably an unmaintained lemon.
BUt I am not sure who the happy or unhappy punters are, as we were among the only ones in the resort during Christmas week. If felt a bit scarry sometimes to stay in such a ghost town.
Probably it was unsually empty…
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kw wrote:So, perhaps an unmaintained lemon as you put it, I’m sorry for that but I wouldn’t want readers to get the wrong impression, there are a lot of happy punters living on La Torre, a lot of unhappy ones too, but isn’t that true of anywhere we choose to live?
Probably an unmaintained lemon.
BUt I am not sure who the happy or unhappy punters are, as we were among the only ones in the resort during Christmas week. If felt a bit scarry sometimes to stay in such a ghost town.
Probably it was unsually empty…
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ralita wrote:kw wrote:Probably an unmaintained lemon.
BUt I am not sure who the happy or unhappy punters are, as we were among the only ones in the resort during Christmas week. If felt a bit scarry sometimes to stay in such a ghost town.
Probably it was unsually empty…
I experienced the same at the La Manga club two years ago.
The La Torre resort is still being built, owners are still moving in, perhaps you should have waited until it was finished before your visit. -
ralita wrote:kw wrote:Probably an unmaintained lemon.
BUt I am not sure who the happy or unhappy punters are, as we were among the only ones in the resort during Christmas week. If felt a bit scarry sometimes to stay in such a ghost town.
Probably it was unsually empty…
I experienced the same at the La Manga club two years ago.
The La Torre resort is still being built, owners are still moving in, perhaps you should have waited until it was finished before your visit. -
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@Senor Nick wrote:
I was in Murcia last week and it doesnt have some of the problems that Andalucia has and as long as they dont overbuild my personal opinion is that the price drops in costa calida wont be anywhere near that of Andalucia.
I’m quite surprised at that, although I have little knowledge of Andalucia. My feeling is that Costa Calida is potentially one of the most vulnerable areas to price drops, as it is one of the most recent regions to emerge and it has lots of new/incomplete developments. The areas lack of maturity is what concerns me. When the problems really start to hit the market….it could be that the more established areas fare better.
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I would say, on the contary sun seeker, the Costa Calida is one of the least vulnerable areas in Spain.
The new international airport is now under construction and due to open in 2010. Note that I say “International” – that suggests visitors from Japan, South Africa, Australia, Canada, USA, South America etc. In other words, several million “New” visitors from “New” sources. If you contemplate how much the Japanese alone pay for a round of golf, then compare it with the price of green-fees on just 9 Polaris World resorts, you will see why Polaris World have sited their resorts within 20km of the new airport. Around 25 new courses will also be in that catchment zone.
Several new motorways and duel carraigways have linked these resorts to Alicante, San Javier and the new Murcia International airport. 2 Cities, Cartagena and Murcia within 35 minutes and 4 large brand new indoor shopping centres have sprung up in 2 years. This all adds up to recent and future growth based around far more than just the British property buyers market.
The new airport is anticipating 1.5 million visitors when it opens and 15 million by 2020. Cartagena is now becoming a popular place for cruise liners to call in.
I would say Costa Calida is probably one of the few places in Spain that has good reason to anticipate future growth.
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@Peter Good wrote:
I would say, on the contary sun seeker, the Costa Calida is one of the least vulnerable areas in Spain….etc…
This all adds up to recent and future growth based around far more than just the British property buyers market.
I would say Costa Calida is probably one of the few places in Spain that has good reason to anticipate future growth.
Hi Peter,
Thank you for your input. An interesting viewpoint which I hadn’t really considered and I’m very reassured that people are looking positively at this area. However, there is another scenario.
In the event that the developers in the area (including Polaris World) were “halted” by their Banks, particularly as new sales slump, then how will they finance these projects to completion?
The model in Spain appears to require pre-sales to allow the financing model to work. With the global credit crunch, my fear is that all this new build and infrastructure could come to an abrupt halt at the say so of the Banks (enough is enough) and that many of the developers in the region may go bust. (I’ve already heard rumours about one of the largest).
It has also been widely publicised that developers in the Costa Calida have many very dissatisfied off plan customers who are desperate to get out of their contracts having seen delays in completion, poor building standards, falling property prices, exchange rate issues, etc etc. Yet these high profile developers still refuse to release customers from the deal. In my view this is because cashflow is drying up fast. Declining cashflow = slow down of development! No cashflow = no completion!
As I said, I’m delighted that you feel Costa Calida might fair better from an attractive destination point of view (golf / shopping / transport etc) particularly as this is where we are looking to buy over the next few years, and why we have been considering the “safety” of La Manga Club.
Generally for the area however, I feel it’ll be the Banks who dictate what succeeds and what fails in this market now. After all, banks are not in the business of taking risks!
PS: Don’t you think it would be completely mad to cut ground on a new development here? 🙄
Jim
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Hi Jim,
You make very valid points regarding sales slumps and cash-flow in developers banks. Take Polaris as an example, they have a business plan that predicts 20,000 apartments to sell. They collect the 1st 40% and 18 months later they collect the 60% balance.
The only problem is, many of those buyers are not able or no longer want to pay the balance, in fact they want the 1st 40% returned too. That has to decimate any business plan, no matter how robust the model is.
Here is where the banks come in. Declining sales and failing business plans attract some of the worlds largest finance specialist such as Credit Suisse. They re-structure the developers debt, take shares in the company and appoint directors to the board. They see the investment as a long haul finance deal, with lucrative pay-offs in 10 – 15 years. The world finance markets will have long since corrected recent failings.
There are profits to be made in hard times, but only for the worlds wealthiest financiers, you can count them on one hand.
La Manga Club was once a total disaster financially, I believe it was sold at one stage, many years ago, for 1 GBP. It has had many owners and seen many sell-offs. Polaris World are the first company in the area to replicate the model, 20 years later.
We are seeing peaks and troughs, and this will happen all the time. In the early 90´s there was an identical occurance, property sales on the Costa Brava and Costa Del Sol, or more specifically, Benidorm and Torremelinos as that was pretty much it then, declined massivly, estate agents went to the wall along with developers. People sat in bars and discussed the rapidly bursting bubble. They asked if there would ever be a return to the good times, and by 1999 there was.
Spanish property sales to overseas buyers reflects the world economy and peoples residual incomes. Fewer people at present have much in the way of residual income, and if they do, they will hang on to it until the markets stabelise themselves. It could take 2,4,5 or more years, but one thing is for certain, there will be another property boom, followed by another slump and so on.
La Manga Club is a decent place to live, prices have dipped a little, I expect them to decline for a considerable time. You are right to delay your purchase, by the end of 2008 you may pick up a property for 20 – 30% less than at present. Though as Mark says, the high quality developments will always be popular and the better investment choice. I predict that LMC will not see a crash therefore.
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Thanks for all the input. Here is another conundrum: ❓
I guess the long and short of it is that if prices fall in La Manga Club by a lesser percentage than those in the surrounding area (Polaris World et al – which might which suffer a greater price drop), then the price differential will become much greater. So right now, sq/ft for sq/ft and property for property, La Manga Club price is probably say 2 times Polaris World price. And so in two or three years that might be nearer 3X or more!!! That’ll make the market even more interesting / confusing! 😕
Jim
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