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Hello Everyone
Been watching this forum for a couple of years and have enjoyed the posts from the regulars Shakeel, Drakan, Maria, Inez, Claire, Charlie, Suzanne, Frank, Goodstich — especially Pablo Silver or Lead ? Many Thanks of course are in order to Mark.
Apologies if I have not mentioned the many (many) more that have made this forum an interesting read (if nothing else) during the quieter moments.
OK enough of that and down to business.
Been going to Marbella regularly since 2001 (4 times a year) and Mallorca (3 times a year) since 2006. Although from Australia, I have always been interested in a place in Europe and Spain to me seems a reasonable choice. My post will hopefully stir up some informed views eventhough most folks here lurk on the CDS.
Despite the desire, I have held off purchasing a property for my personal enjoyment (not rent nor speculation) for a couple of years to see how things pan out ie over pricing, justice system, lawyer problems, corruption etc. and all the other nonsense.
Simply put, from my recent experience Marbella is losing its shine with everything going down to the lowest common denominator both in quality and appearance. However climate wise its still the winner by a clear margin.
Mallorca on the other hand, leaves me with an impression of better quality everything, from houses to beaches to social behaviour. Prices in Mallorca arent too far shy of Marbella and I find the Germans good to get on with. The area of Mallorca I stay in is South-West and Palma.
For the record, I have been in the UK since 2003 after spending 10 years in Asia and Japan, followed by another 3 years in Swiss.
My ideal property is someting frontline or near frontline with 3 beds and around €750k or so.
Finally I think for me the ideal spot would be Mallorca but with the Marbella climate.
I am interested in what everyone thinks.
Happy Xmas To You All
😀
Kind Regards
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As Katy, says both places have lost some shine. Whether they have actually lost the shine or people view it differently, under the present doom & economic climate.
I, am personally not in favour of buying on an Island. As I don’t want to be held hostage by airlines, either for price of tickets or flight availability.
The option of driving, taking a train should be open to me & its for this reason, that I am also in favour of South of France.
The sad part is that they don’t play cricket in either of these part unlike a very large Island called Australia.
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We were in Spain and Majorca this year. We used to do this year on year, but had given Majorca a miss for a couple of years after they bought in (then abolished) the tourist tax.
I was really looking forward to going back to the island (North). The weather was good but it was very expensive. What wins by miles in Majorca are the wonderful sandy beaches and warm sea. The drawback of living on the island is as Shakeel says…..too dependent on airlines. -
Hey Claire,
I have noticed lately yourself & others have been agreeing with much more than I expect or to my liking.Either, I have mellowed or the tablets that I have been taking is giving results. It would be boring if we all start agreeing.
One thing. I agree upon that we should all have a good Xmas.
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For the short time a few years ago, that I was in Mallorca, both sides of the island (had a boat then – another story!) I found it rather limited and easy to get the feeling of being hemmed in. The place is nice for a holiday, quiet in winter time, mad in summer time alhtough Im sure there will be inland places to buck that trend.
Much prefer Marbella, has it lost its shine or have people themselves just become jaded with age and life in general ? – who knows! We still have the best climate and however bad things get, that will never change. Kids can play outside happily, the Spanish will adapt back to the simple life, not having to have things and stuff, which many people find they cant live without these days. Old habits such as talking to each other and just enjoying the sea breaking on the beach, or the clouds hanging on the mountains, birdsong, butterflies and all nature will come back into fashion.
Is that such a bad thing? And if you are living here, then the exchange rate doesnt make a difference, despite what you read etc there is still work around – for those prepared to get their hands dirty of course.
No, it isnt as easy as the last few bumber yearsm but has gone back to what it was like before the boom. Personally I havent seen a lot of change from when I first came out and I see jobs up for grabs in various places daily.
Life is what you make of it!
Have a great Christmas all of you and stay positive! 😀
ps no havent had a lot to drink, but been celebrating as my son secured a place playing Rugby for Andalucia last weekend against Portugal!!
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Hi Inez 😀
Great post, yep its tough in general not helped at times by the media.
Many feel the area they live in has gone downhill but thats often a state of mind thats allowing only negatives views.
Its what you make it and great news regarding yer lad.
To answer the question.
Marbella is large there are some great areas and will always be the Jewel in the crown on the Coasta del Sol for every reason Inez has pointed out.Just Frank 8)
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@Just Frank wrote:
To answer the question.
Marbella is large there are some great areas and will always be the Jewel in the crown on the Coasta del Sol for every reason Inez has pointed out.Just Frank 8)
Agree with that Frank.
I am not so optimistic about the place as Inez. Even discounting the “bad press” Marbella and the coast has had. Official stats cannot be ignored. Out today are really bad retail sales figures, don’t make the headlines of doom and gloom like the UK but they are there. Unemployment in Andalucía 18.7% and expected to be far higher for Dec. 10,887 unemployed in Marbella (up 9% from Oct)! I personally know 8 people who have recently lost their jobs and the Golf courses have started to cut back on staff too. Dec a usually quiet time has about an average of only 30 people daily. This month many days have seen only 6 people playing and many of those were members.
I know both British and Spanish who cannot find a job. A Friend queued for 3 hours to register at the Unemployment office two weeks ago. July and August is Ok as most visitors are Spanish but even then the difference has been noted this year as to their spending patterns, not eating in restaurants as much etc.
British visitors had already dropped over the past few winters (before the crunch and the currency crash) but these past few months has been dire. Was shopping in the old town on 23rd and the streets were almost deserted, never seen it like that in all the years I have been here.
As for Banus, some of the luxury designer shops are threatening to pull out citing, lack of security, increased prostitution and general lack of maintenence of the area, cleanliness etc. Although I should think their main concern is lack of clients!
On Xmas day we have a tradition of having our main meal in the evening and having a light fish lunch in marbella centre. It is usually very busy with locals and was yesterday, only walking though, everyone of the restaurants had an average of 4 people in…last year most were full 🙁
I may not be able to tell it like an Agent but I know what I see and what the Spanish are saying. Still prefer Marbella to Mallorca though and last year we thought mallorca was more expensive of the two 🙂
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“Even discounting the “bad press” Marbella and the coast has had.”
Its the same press that had hyped the area & now can be construed as balance reporting.
“Official stats cannot be ignored. “
In the case of Spain, yes they can be to a large extent. As they are as always massaged and presented by interested parties, inconsistent in there collection of the data and than the pasa nada attitudes.
Besides above you don’t need statistic to convince you one way or another. just observe while walking or sitting down and having a tinto.
In defence of Marbella this is happening every where. I however noticed that this was not so obvious in South of France.
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@shakeel wrote:
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“Official stats cannot be ignored. “
In the case of Spain, yes they can be to a large extent. As they are as always massaged and presented by interested parties, inconsistent in there collection of the data and than the pasa nada attitudes.
Besides above you don’t need statistic to convince you one way or another. just observe while walking or sitting down and having a tinto.In defence of Marbella this is happening every where. I however noticed that this was not so obvious in South of France.
Yes, stats aren’t so reliable here…they are usually worse than published 😆
I was shopping in Guildford a couple of weeks ago and there was no sign of a downturn. Couldn’t find a restaurant that wasn’t full. Here we walk away from most of them as there is no-one in them!
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My favourite place in the whole of Spain is North East Mallorca, but where did I buy my holiday home—on the Costa del Sol!
Had many wet and windy holidays in Mallorca in both May and September and this was enough for me to decide that when purchasing a holiday home that climate was one of the most important factors.
The next most important factor was accessability and with 3 budget airlines flying daily from my local airport to Malaga and only one budget/scheduled airline to Mallorca.
The final decision was made on a visit to both areas out of season. Mallorca was absolutely dead whilst Marbella and the CDS were still lively.
If I had to choose between the two for a summer holiday the Mallorca would be my choice, but if I was purchasing a holiday home then Marbella would be selected.
The only thing I could see in Mallorca’s favour was that the rental rates that could be obtained were considerably greater than the CDS.
Everyones reasons for purchasing are different and I hope wherever you decide to buy that the property and location gives you many years of pleasure.
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@wodge wrote:
My favourite place in the whole of Spain is North East Mallorca, but where did I buy my holiday home—on the Costa del Sol!
Had many wet and windy holidays in Mallorca in both May and September and this was enough for me to decide that when purchasing a holiday home that climate was one of the most important factors.
The next most important factor was accessability and with 3 budget airlines flying daily from my local airport to Malaga and only one budget/scheduled airline to Mallorca.
The final decision was made on a visit to both areas out of season. Mallorca was absolutely dead whilst Marbella and the CDS were still lively.
If I had to choose between the two for a summer holiday the Mallorca would be my choice, but if I was purchasing a holiday home then Marbella would be selected.
The only thing I could see in Mallorca’s favour was that the rental rates that could be obtained were considerably greater than the CDS.
Everyones reasons for purchasing are different and I hope wherever you decide to buy that the property and location gives you many years of pleasure.
I agree re NE Majorca, the Polensa agree I think is great and I love Cala San Vicente in particular, Majorca is fantastic but I also agree the May/September weather is a bit hit and miss.
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I live on an island and must say that most of the time I forget I’m on one…though I am getting close to ‘that age’. 🙁
However I certainly don’t feel trapped.
I also think being able to enjoy sailing onto other places is a bonus.Getting off it to fly somewhere is easier/quicker/cheaper than going from Devon (where I used to live) to London by train.
It’s just a 40 minute flight from the island to the capital Athens where I have the possibility to fly to any destination I want.
Aegean Airlines now seems to be in competition with Easy Jet – I can fly to Paris/Berlin/Milan etc. from Athens for around 60 euros with either.
Flights Paris to Exeter with Flybe going for around 15 euros! It’s not like the old days now – for me it doesn’t matter where you live, travel is easy.I would definitely consider Majorca as opposed to the Spanish mainland but prices would have to come down. Looking at websites, prices for a good decent villa with views seem very high.
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I have no problems with the islands but they do tend to be over-priced & have that naff nouveau riche exclusivity which one associates with Marbella , etc. As for the CDS – it is so over. The Spanish have a phenomenally beautiful country with tons of great places to choose from and a mostly exquisite climate. I and many others simply love it but not enough in the present economic situation for them to sit on their hands. Prices, rents all need to come down as does the Euro otherwise the future is bleak.
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Hudson, totally disagree; the Costa del Sol is not “so over”; we all know what has happened over the last few years but it remains and will always be the preferred destination of the Brits, Irish and other Europeans, not to mention the emerging economies that are discovering the best country in the world!!….. the PROBLEM that the Spanish costas have at the moment is that apart from the economic crisis that we face, we have the double whammy of the 30% decline in the British Pound. This has proved to be the final nail in the coffin for our micro economy already on the ropes.
The Brits have either stopped coming over her and the ones that are here are hiding under their beds frozen with fear – as they are the movers and shakers on our coasts (85% of spending) our business’s are grinding to a halt – that includes everything from golf courses, restaurants, dry cleaners etc etc – Unemployment is shooting up as we speak and I reckon by february the figures will go off the charts possibly leading to social unrest……
IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ABANDONED BUILDINGS, DODGY AGENTS, LYING LAWYERS, PROSTITUTES, BUILDINGS WITHOUT OCCUPATION LICENCES ETC – IT IS ALL TO DO WITH AN ECONOMIC DOWNTURN THAT HAS GONE UGLY !!
When this eventually blows over (no predictions when) the crowds will return to our lovely towns of Torremolinos, Fuengirola, Marbella Sotogrande etc – and Hudson yes even Almeria !!
be optimistic, go out and spend a few Euros (those that can) and just look around and appreciate our lovely coastlines warts and all !!
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Don’t get your knickers in a twist m8. I have a right to my opinion whether you like it or not. Each to his own. The downturn affects every part of Spain – inevitably the most overblown areas suffer the worst – especially those totally reliant on the tourist £. CDS I think will be most affected by British/Irish current poverty but all parts will suffer unless and until the Spanish/Britsh business/property owners cut their prices/rents, etc in line with what people can pay.
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Hudson. I agree with you & would like to add that until the corruption is sorted out, they maybe lawyers, Councils, developers, judges, banks, and a lack of recourse for the consumer, including fair compensation. Why would anybody buy in Spain. I love the country but will not buy despite being offered mouth watering deals.
The reputation of Spain is so low that nobody will place their life saving in the Wild West of EU. Spain need to do/take a overtly visible action & its enforcement, before it can start gaining its reputation as honest, fair & decent country for people to live & invest.
I cant see this happening for another 10 years & that is being optimistic.
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shakeel, i always enjoy your postings but i think you really are too negative; you must have had a very bad experience !! – yes, there are/ were a few bad apples but please don’t paint such a black picture of Spain.
Bubbles spawn swindles and if it wasn’t for the insatiable greed of many “consumers”these swindlers would not have arrived on the scene responding to the demand. Bernie Madoff is a case in point; as are “some” of the estate agents that have now since done a runner after the Ponzi scheme crashed !!…..
Be positive and LOVE Spain please !! It’s great apart from a tiny minority of chorizos (that means dodgy dealers!!)
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” i think you really are too negative;”
I don’t think I am being negative. I am just prudent & realist. The positive side of things is the job of the people who need to sell or have financial, commercial or political interest.
“you must have had a very bad experience !!”
Fortunately, not & perhaps for reasons being stated above i.e. prudent etc. Than again perhaps because I have never bought from an agent and have not used a lawyer. My purchase has been directly from the developers & have also been able to get a discount on my purchase price even in the most buoyant market.
“yes, there are/ were a few bad apples but please don’t paint such a black picture of Spain. “
Yes, like everywhere. It seams that the cart carrying the bad apple seams to always be parked in front of the English/British buyer.
To discourage this apple cart & to ensure that the cart does not pass its MOT/ITV and be parked where the British buyers were. The authorities should have acted firmly, decisively and fairly, they did not.
Quite, appropriate for the time of the year to say that the authorities had voted for X mas.
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@UBEDA wrote:
yes, there are/ were a few bad apples but please don’t paint such a black picture of Spain.
It’s hard not to.
The problems have not just been “a few bad apples”. When you have corruption right through to the core, from town halls to judges…..to the Junta itself, just tell me why anyone should trust Spain. They have been very instrument in adding to Spain’s current crisis.Valencia and it’s Land Grab fiasco is on a massive scale, and if you haven’t done so already have a read of the Prior’s update. Don’t tell me these are “greedy consumers”. http://www.almanzora-au.org/The_Priors.htm
Their story makes me feel nauseas with anger and show perfectly how their is no logic to the injustice found in Spain. It’s sheer unadulterated corruption coupled with political self-serving insane decisions. And the pawns in this crazy stew of a ‘game’ are innocent purchasers.Spain is currently riddled with ‘disease’ right through to its heart and will take years to clear out if it ever it happens. Shakeel describes it exactly in my opinion – it’s the Wild West of Europe.
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” Don’t tell me these are “greedy consumers”.
Greed is one of the human nature like anything in life and has to be managed. It can be a motivating factor. In the above instance, whether it was the greed of the consumer or producer. A fair balance has to found by businesses in their practises that in turn will ensure the consumer & give him/her a sense of fair play. Failing this, recourse to the legal system that should be timely, effective & transparent.
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When the sh-t hit the fan the main corruption seemed to be centred on Marbella and any signs of a comeback will probably start there.
As Katy says when is another question so this may prove to be a bad pointer for many of the remaining areas.
These other off plan areas mainly sold at prices that were supposed to reflect an investment opportunity and were almost always based on supposed hyped values in Marbella however they were vastly inflated prices quoted by the sales media and way off reality.
Reality is that thousands now have poorly constructed undersized overpriced property in vastly overbuilt areas that no one really wanted but they thought they could make money.
Some of these areas have poor facilities and climate compared to Marbella and yet they need to sell at Marbella prices.
Accordingly this is going to be the Achilles heel as the demand in that market without the Brits will prove very difficult to take the slack up.
The problem is that the market will find it difficult to turn unless it can start with a basis from where valuations can be based and in the south it will probably be Marbella.
As pointed out Guildford was packed and many other areas in th U.K are dead and why ? Location.location.location.
The world credit crunch, falling prices here combined with the exchange rates and the mass reports of corruption make the short term buying in the countries like Spain very difficult for the U.K buyer.
At some point property there will become a buying opportunity and for many countries then affordability factors will have an effect on demand and therefore prices.
Now with corruption the only way to get peoples attention is again the name Marbella and that will have to be seen as the whiter than white place to buy and sell to even begin to start forming any levels of confidence .( watch for the agents to use this as their top selling tool) 🙄
Lets not forget the relatively unreported other so called investor opportunities in other Euro countries based on quotes like “The new Spain” with promises of mass infrastructure improvements 👿 and opprtunities to make a fast buck.
Almost all of Spain’s problems resulted in pure greed and this greed will soon be reflected in the unregulated corruption of those countries.
The one thing is for sure and that’s the desire to get out of the U.K and we only have to reflect where the most popular destinations were to realise there is a pent up demand building up.
If Spain is going to turn to be at the top again then the media machine will show it to be the place to be again with them cleaning its act up.
Only those in the know realise that some in certain sectors of the country, like leopards never will change their spots.Just Frank 8)
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It was quite interesting to read a recent article in which Coop Travel indicated that the top Holiday Destinations for UK Holidaymakers for summer 2009 are:
1. Majorca
2. Lycian Coast, Turkey
3. Orlando, Florida
4. Larnaca, Cyprus
5. Costa Dorada, Spain
6. Ibiza
7. Minorca
8. Bodrum Peninsula, Turkey
9. Sharm el Sheikh, Egypt
10. Bourgas, Black Sea coast, Bulgaria
Costa del Sol didn’t even get a mention
Richard
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