Hacienda Riquelme golf course and surroundings in decline

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    • #57746
      Anonymous
      Participant

      These pictures show the evolution of a water feature on the Hacienda Riquelme golf course over the last few years:


      December 2011


      December 2012


      July 2013

      Doesn’t look promising ❗

      More info from the Hacienda Riquelme Blog

    • #117901
      katy
      Blocked

      December and July always see different levels. Ours was always low until Sept and a couple of downpours would bring it back up. Haven’t read the blog but I wouldn’t read too much into low water levels.

    • #117917
      Anonymous
      Participant

      True, but I’m also hearing stories about dead fish and chemical dumping in the area, though I haven’t had a chance to verify them.

    • #117945
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Mark there is no truth in the comments about the dumping of chemicals and the fish have died as a result of the hot weather and the low water levels. . The lakes are low at the moment as with a lot of golf courses in the area. We have been informed that the golf course owners are going to top them up as soon as they can. I expect the winter rains will help.

    • #117947
      Anonymous
      Participant

      mark i am a new resident in Hacienda Riquelme although i have been an admirer of it since 2005, i feel lucky to be part of this beautiful resort now, apart from a few political issues amongst a small group of residents and low water in the lakes, which does not spoil the golf experience but would enhance it if they where full. The place as far as im concerned is a paradise beautiful scenery great golf coarse, lovely architecture, peace and quiet most of the year, lovely weather, cant ask for more.

    • #117948
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Okay, thanks for the feedback. Like I say, I haven’t been able to verify the claims. Glad to hear you are happy there 🙂

    • #117953
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Latest lake pictures enclosed.
      [attachment=2:3cu67ori]w1.jpg[/attachment:3cu67ori]

      This is an environmental disaster that some want to cover up.

    • #117954
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Further pics of the lakes can be found at https://skydrive.live.com/?cid=9558C49744EB703D&id=9558C49744EB703D!8162&v=3&authkey=!AOeD103bsWRMEQs

      Or the dead fish at http://hrgrblog.blogspot.co.uk/

      This is just not good enough and people need to stand up and protect the environment and wildlife.

    • #117955
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Ahh the HRGR assn now im begining to see why you rub people up the wrong way, you have published this information with out adding the underlying facts as you well know them, you probably dont accept the reasons you have been given for the dead fish or the lack of water.
      and you continue to try create a shock horror impact with people who are not owners or residents on HR this is making the place look bad from the outside.
      it is a shame the lakes have ended up this way, it is a enviomental disaster i agree, BUT
      it was man made lakes in the first place, they have rubber liners, if and when the finical situation in spain and with IRM and Polaris World and the banks, or if it rains for 3 months non stop in the winter, im sure we will get the lakes full again
      and nature will repair its self to former glory. we are in unprecedented economic times, sacrifices have to be made.
      its not like we are destroying a natural legacy that has stood for hundreds of years is it.
      as a new resident i do support some of your ideas, but if you continue to publish in this way i like most of the others on HR
      would have to distance my self from you. by all means publish the story but give it some back ground, instead of just cutting and pasting.
      i have been resident on HR since Oct 2012 and been out 5 times so far, until i played golf in june this year i had no idea the lakes where so low, i dont have a lake view. The resort is just perfect for me and my family im so pleased we are in, and hope to grow old together with HR.
      all you seem to be doing is driving the price low or encouraging people to overlook HR

    • #117956
      Anonymous
      Participant

      The HRGR association are not an officially recognised and registered body and do not represent any of the owners at HRGR except for the 2 individuals that post using it instead of their full names. They have already been banned from both the HRGR owners forum and the Polaris world forum.

      As the poster above stated, these are man made lakes and they are expensive to fill with fresh or desalinated water and in the current economic situation, you can see why the owners are not filling all of them during the hot summer.

    • #117957
      Anonymous
      Participant

      We have been previously criticised for saying too much hence a picture tells a thousand words.

      What we can also say is that the dead fish in the lakes have appeared again. We have also been informed by a neighbour that chemicals have been thrown in the surroundings of the workers compound. This could be illegal and dangerous for wildlife and pets health.

      In addition, we have been told by another neighbour that SEPRONA (Guardia Civil’s Nature Protection Service) thinks the present situation of the lakes is also illegal.

      It is now time to stop brushing this all under the carpet and for owners to open up their eyes.

    • #117958
      Anonymous
      Participant

      @HRGR Assoc wrote:

      We have been previously criticised for saying too much hence a picture tells a thousand words.

      What we can also say is that the dead fish in the lakes have appeared again. We have also been informed by a neighbour that chemicals have been thrown in the surroundings of the workers compound. This could be illegal and dangerous for wildlife and pets health.

      In addition, we have been told by another neighbour that SEPRONA (Guardia Civil’s Nature Protection Service) thinks the present situation of the lakes is also illegal.

      It is now time to stop brushing this all under the carpet and for owners to open up their eyes.

      this is again a cut and paste from another forum that you frequent, i have seen many complaints from different people about your cut and paste habits, now im begining to understand why people get annoyed with your posts.

    • #117960
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Yet again posts with a lot of made up quotes about local bodies stating that situations are illegal with no actual evidence. It is all hearsay and should be ignored. There is a vested interest here and all the owners at HRGR are fed up with your constant posts attacking the resort. You have been banned on 2 forums already and hopefully more will follow. We do have low water in the lakes like a lot of the local golf courses run by IRM, but we understand that they are looking for a solution, so let us give them a chance to sort this out. It is their land and not part of the community and there is not much else we can do. There has certainly been no dumping of chemicals and your comment that you have been informed by a neighbour is laughable and not evidence of any such offence

    • #117962
      Anonymous
      Participant

      @howie wrote:

      Mark there is no truth in the comments about the dumping of chemicals and the fish have died as a result of the hot weather and the low water levels. . The lakes are low at the moment as with a lot of golf courses in the area. We have been informed that the golf course owners are going to top them up as soon as they can. I expect the winter rains will help.

      Pictures tell a thousand words – the golf course fairways are lush and green, at the same time the lakes are empty. This is not rocket science to understand why!

      It also appears that the golf course propose to top the lakes up with salt water which will really help the fish and environmental impact on the wildlife.

      Also as mentioned the HR Blog which has been going for the last 5 years raised this subject matter first as well as the lack of bird life if one were to read their Blog..

    • #117963
      katy
      Blocked

      Has any of you taken a look around any other golf courses artificial lakes 😕 Certainly on the Costa del sol most of them will be looking low. Fish die from lack of oxygen, nothing sinister. We lived on a course in Marbella, in summer it was sad to see the terrapins struggling to survive in the mud which was once a lake in winter…it’s Spain, wait for the rains.

    • #117964
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Thanks Katy and I can assure you that all the owners are aware of the reason for this problem and hope it will improve in the winter period. I am afraid there are only 2 owners who refuse to understand these issues and are hell bent on causing trouble for the resort for their own warped reasons!

    • #117967
      Anonymous
      Participant

      @howie wrote:

      Thanks Katy and I can assure you that all the owners are aware of the reason for this problem and hope it will improve in the winter period. I am afraid there are only 2 owners who refuse to understand these issues and are hell bent on causing trouble for the resort for their own warped reasons!

      – “only 2 owners” – how do you know? There seems to be the Association, a Sub Community and 2 Blogs sites now hence looks to be more owners out there than you want.
      – “who refuse to understand these issues” – seems to me that they understand clearly and no wants the truth to be told
      – hell bent on causing trouble – the truth hurts sometimes however how do you know they are “hell bent” and if so surely they have a right to express an opinion or is this no longer allowed?
      – “warped reasons” – now that is taking the biscult if someone says something that you dont agree with

      Seems to me the fish are very big due to the lack of water and this couldnt be just due to this year as fish do not grow that big in one year. That is also a load of water to loose just to the heat!

      Dan

    • #117968
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Dan as you are not an owner at HRGR then you clearly do not know what the situation is so I will not comment on your post.

    • #117970
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Oh, So supposed I am not an owner then why would I be interested in looking at this post?

      If I am an owner, then it would be good to understand this further especially with the work to rule that the committee is on?

      Why is there a rubbish workers compound next to owners apartments?

      Very easy to attack someone’s comments, harder afterwards to support what you have said.

      Dan

    • #117971
      Anonymous
      Participant

      @Dan55 wrote:

      Oh, So supposed I am not an owner then why would I be interested in looking at this post?

      If I am an owner, then it would be good to understand this further especially with the work to rule that the committee is on?
      Why is there a rubbish workers compound next to owners apartments?

      Dan

      I think you have just confirmed to me that you are not an owner and are just looking to cause trouble as with many of the anonymous posters on these forums which is why so many communities now have their own private forums. Carry on if you want although I am not going to join in as I have better things to do with my life! 8)

    • #117972
      Anonymous
      Participant

      @Dan55 wrote:

      Oh, So supposed I am not an owner then why would I be interested in looking at this post?

      If I am an owner, then it would be good to understand this further especially with the work to rule that the committee is on?

      Why is there a rubbish workers compound next to owners apartments?

      Very easy to attack someone’s comments, harder afterwards to support what you have said.

      Dan

      dan im a new resident on HR i got in cheap, but nonthe less its a fantastic resort and all that we could have hoped for.
      i can assure you there are not the issues you think there are, i have done my own investigation in the past few months, i can tell you my findings are that.
      it does seem to be small group possibly 2 people or 1 apartment, or perhaps a small group in one block. but all the “bad publicity” and web site ownership does seem to stem from this small group or possably 2 people, they have set up different identities to look like its a bigger group, they call them selves HRGR assn yet they have no members or any legal right in spain to be a assn, i cant figgure out there motives, but i assure you HR is a fantastic resort, i just wish i lived there or could get there more than i do.

      and as for the workers compound its hidden behind a hill so you can only see into it from the apartments that these people own, wich i do feel sypathy for them but a democratic process has taken place and a decision made that there is no better place to locate the skip in the workers compound or the workers compound its self for the good of the majority.
      these people wont accept this, wich i understand, so rather than being democratic they find ways to scream and stamp there feet like spoilt children.
      mike

    • #117973
      Anonymous
      Participant

      As an owner, then I clearly know what goes on and fell insulted that “howie” can make attacks and yet cannot support what he said when then questioned.

      To take part in the secure owners forum at hrgr.es you have to have a forum name that identifies you by your first and surname. This is quite good to get to know fellow owners however it is also a means for other owners to attack someone that the committee or the forum warriors/mods do not agree with. This is why 90% of owners sign-in to read posts but would never under any circumstances raise their heads as these will be shot down on their first outing.

      When we purchased we receive a monthly update from a fellow owner that stated what is happening, good or bad within the resort. This developed into this owner being black balled as the committee didn’t approve on what was being said. Part of this is due to the resort being very quite in the Oct to May period every year with less than 50 of the 1,864 apartments being full time residents. The majority of the committee are resident and spend their time complaining about fellow owners as there is really nothing to do in the slack seasons. In the busy summer months then they are even worse, complaining about the noise and the large number of teenagers who should not in their total belief be allowed on a 5 star golf complex.

      Another owner has also been banned from the owners forum for raising viewpoints that are shared amongst quite a lot of owners and due to the ban is now unable to defend themselves. I thing this is disgraceful which is why it is time the truth is told and the childish, insulting culture at Hacienda Riquelme is made to change.

      In terms of the Association, then it is legally registered and has a legal president with a yearly AGM. – I know because I have attended and I can clearly state that it was standing room only, in a large room.

      Dan

    • #117975
      Anonymous
      Participant

      @Dan55 wrote:

      As an owner, then I clearly know what goes on and fell insulted that “howie” can make attacks and yet cannot support what he said when then questioned.

      To take part in the secure owners forum at hrgr.es you have to have a forum name that identifies you by your first and surname. This is quite good to get to know fellow owners however it is also a means for other owners to attack someone that the committee or the forum warriors/mods do not agree with. This is why 90% of owners sign-in to read posts but would never under any circumstances raise their heads as these will be shot down on their first outing.

      When we purchased we receive a monthly update from a fellow owner that stated what is happening, good or bad within the resort. This developed into this owner being black balled as the committee didn’t approve on what was being said. Part of this is due to the resort being very quite in the Oct to May period every year with less than 50 of the 1,864 apartments being full time residents. The majority of the committee are resident and spend their time complaining about fellow owners as there is really nothing to do in the slack seasons. In the busy summer months then they are even worse, complaining about the noise and the large number of teenagers who should not in their total belief be allowed on a 5 star golf complex.

      Another owner has also been banned from the owners forum for raising viewpoints that are shared amongst quite a lot of owners and due to the ban is now unable to defend themselves. I thing this is disgraceful which is why it is time the truth is told and the childish, insulting culture at Hacienda Riquelme is made to change.

      In terms of the Association, then it is legally registered and has a legal president with a yearly AGM. – I know because I have attended and I can clearly state that it was standing room only, in a large room.

      Dan

      dan this is a big shock to me, will reply later, p.s at the moment i would say as you have only registered today for this site ive been here since 2006, i could say that you are the small group we are talking about but using a different name. but if you can help me see sense then please do

      mike

    • #117976
      Anonymous
      Participant

      HRGR registration page:

    • #117981
      Anonymous
      Participant

      And for the record I am not a part of the Association however I believe that everyone has a right to raise their views and defend these views.

      It was my dad and his friends that made this happen in WW2 in case people forget

    • #117982
      Anonymous
      Participant

      @Dan55 wrote:

      HRGR registration page:

      dan what have you cut and pasted this for, there is no explanation?
      it is i must say very reminiscent of the cut and pasting the this small group do, who have wound up what seems to me as a new comer to HR (i say it again) the majority of the community if you have evidence that there is a large group who oppose the current committee, if they have valid points i would support them but i have seen no evidence of any valid point or any group apart from the 2 protagonists who we all know.

      im on the hrgr official site with my name in full view nothing to hide.

    • #117986
      Anonymous
      Participant

      mike, you asked for help to see sense which is why iI posted the registration process to the secure owners forum which does show that you need to register with your first and last name as your user name.

      the HR Blog at http://haciendariquelmeblog.blogspot.co.uk/ to me has perfect Spanish and English and were the ones that posted this subject matter first not the HR Association which has no Spanish at all. Then it was Mark that cut and pasted it here.

      the Tomillo 5, a sub community at the resort also has its own page at http://t5.sharepoint.com/Pages/2013AugustNewsletter.aspx which also looks not to be linked to the HR Blog.

      that is more than 2 owners in one apartment and is without including any comments from the polaris forum at http://www.polarisworldforum.net/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=11

      then there are as i understand the 2 presidents that are behind the workers compound action which so i have heard were told that it would be closed once the resort was completed. They continued to let the compound open so to ensure the town centre was built and this is now how the other owners and committee reward them.

      Dan

      PS: i am also on the owners forum but there is no way i am going to identity the wife and i.

    • #117987
      logan
      Participant

      Most Spanish communities and especially the former Polaris World communities are going through hard times at the moment. A combination of over borrowing, debt and unrealistic planning together with the fact that in a small region of Murcia in the last nine years were built at least fifteen golf courses with residential property and a useless, unnecessary unused airport.

      Murcia is a permanently drought stricken region of Spain and an official semi desert and not a particularly attractive region for tourism at that. Where the water was coming from at an affordable cost to irrigate golf courses and tourist resorts on this scale was never considered. It was the greed of the boom and now we have the inevitable bust years which will run on and on.

      Some years ago I actually carried out a study on these resorts long term feasibility. I was at the time considering a large investment. I arrived at the conclusion they were an unmitigated financial disaster which would end in being an enormous financial burden on any investment that was made, even at reduced prices with little or no significant return.

      Resident management committees struggle to keep these places going in the teeth of ever rising costs and community debt. The courses are now run by a conglomerate of four disaster banks. Their market capital descends ever lower into the abyss as right downs on capital security are reduced by the market and the Bank of Spain. The banks themselves are kept afloat with bail out loans provided by the EU and will struggle for at least a decade.

      It’s unfair and wrong to blame anyone but the corrupt developers, bankers and politicians who have damaged Spain in the last ten years and brought the country almost to it’s knees.

    • #117988
      Anonymous
      Participant

      @Dan55 wrote:

      mike, you asked for help to see sense which is why iI posted the registration process to the secure owners forum which does show that you need to register with your first and last name as your user name.

      the HR Blog at http://haciendariquelmeblog.blogspot.co.uk/ to me has perfect Spanish and English and were the ones that posted this subject matter first not the HR Association which has no Spanish at all. Then it was Mark that cut and pasted it here.

      the Tomillo 5, a sub community at the resort also has its own page at http://t5.sharepoint.com/Pages/2013AugustNewsletter.aspx which also looks not to be linked to the HR Blog.

      that is more than 2 owners in one apartment and is without including any comments from the polaris forum at http://www.polarisworldforum.net/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=11

      then there are as i understand the 2 presidents that are behind the workers compound action which so i have heard were told that it would be closed once the resort was completed. They continued to let the compound open so to ensure the town centre was built and this is now how the other owners and committee reward them.

      Dan

      PS: i am also on the owners forum but there is no way i am going to identity the wife and i.

      Dan I am afraid you have clearly given your identity away as either Chris or Luci Martin, the two people causing all of the problems. You are using the same accusations that they use and the same terminology about childish behaviour. The fact you have posted your own website link at Tomillo 5, also points to the same fact as no one else on HRGR would post that as we all know what damage you are doing to our great resort with the lies you post on that website.

      There are only 2 owners that have been banned from the owners forum, Luci as she made unfounded personal attacks on the committee members despite being asked to stop and one other owner who made abusive threats against a committee member which eventually involved the police.

      The problem is that every time you get banned from a forum you just move to another and continue your attacks. Very sad state of affairs really and about time you moved on and tried to enjoy your life and your apartment at HRGR.

    • #117992
      Anonymous
      Participant

      logan, some very good interests facts and we all know that IRM are facing financially difficulties which is why they cannot afford to fill up the lakes. dont help that HR owners play other courses as the PW courses are too expensive, downward path for cashflows?.

      for howie then any google search under HRGR blog or even the links in the blog shows up the tomillo website, not very difficult searching for them and there are loads more for that matter raising the same subjects. If its Luci or whoever then they are certainly busy and fluent in Spanish too as I guess the blog also is theirs?

      childish behavior is really how you sum up everything at HR be it the committee work to rule at this time, banning owners or everyone who is against Nigel now being called Luci.

    • #117993
      Anonymous
      Participant

      @Dan55 wrote:

      logan, some very good interests facts and we all know that IRM are facing financially difficulties which is why they cannot afford to fill up the lakes. dont help that HR owners play other courses as the PW courses are too expensive, downward path for cashflows?.

      for howie then any google search under HRGR blog or even the links in the blog shows up the tomillo website, not very difficult searching for them and there are loads more for that matter raising the same subjects. If its Luci or whoever then they are certainly busy and fluent in Spanish too as I guess the blog also is theirs?

      childish behavior is really how you sum up everything at HR be it the committee work to rule at this time, banning owners or everyone who is against Nigel now being called Luci.

      Okay if you say so Luci 😀

      Banning owners from our owners forum for repeated threats of physical violence or personal insults just because they did not agree with another owners view is not really childish.

      I see you are still trying to personalise this dispute by naming one individual from the committee which is a pretty low blow but one we are all used to by now. A new president of your phase was recently elected as the previous one had stood down due to your bad behaviour. Strange how you did not stand for that position. The new PP does not support your position either by the way. I wonder when you will get the message that you have little or no support and any that you had is fading away day after day as you post attacks against our resort on various forums and blogs.

      If you are not Luci or Chris then there are now 3 owners in this group which is hardly representative of the 1850 plus owners of property at HRGR.

    • #117994
      Anonymous
      Participant

      @howie wrote:

      Thanks Katy and I can assure you that all the owners are aware of the reason for this problem and hope it will improve in the winter period. I am afraid there are only 2 owners who refuse to understand these issues and are hell bent on causing trouble for the resort for their own warped reasons!

      There goes the “2” part of the argument, wonder what will go next?

      really don’t know where the physical violence or personal insults comment is coming from as its the first I have heard

    • #117995
      Anonymous
      Participant

      @Dan55 wrote:

      mike, you asked for help to see sense which is why iI posted the registration process to the secure owners forum which does show that you need to register with your first and last name as your user name.

      the HR Blog at http://haciendariquelmeblog.blogspot.co.uk/ to me has perfect Spanish and English and were the ones that posted this subject matter first not the HR Association which has no Spanish at all. Then it was Mark that cut and pasted it here.

      the Tomillo 5, a sub community at the resort also has its own page at http://t5.sharepoint.com/Pages/2013AugustNewsletter.aspx which also looks not to be linked to the HR Blog.

      that is more than 2 owners in one apartment and is without including any comments from the polaris forum at http://www.polarisworldforum.net/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=11

      then there are as i understand the 2 presidents that are behind the workers compound action which so i have heard were told that it would be closed once the resort was completed. They continued to let the compound open so to ensure the town centre was built and this is now how the other owners and committee reward them.

      Dan

      PS: i am also on the owners forum but there is no way i am going to identity the wife and i.

      dan55, thanks i do appreciate any help i can get to understand this conflict on HR, but i already knew about the registration page as i have registered in my own name.
      the haciendariquelmeblog.blogspot.co.uk this is actually a good site i have visited since 2012 good information i dont see ant alarmist comments like you suggest exist on this site.http://t5.sharepoint.com/Pages/2013AugustNewsletter.aspx which also looks not to be linked to the HR Blog.

      http://t5.sharepoint.com/Pages/2013AugustNewsletter.aspx which also looks not to be linked to the HR Blog.

      this link means nothing your trying to make this informative site look like its linked in some way when simply the informative site as i call it has many links for information purposes even to the official HRGR owners page. so means nothing.

      at this moment despite what you say i cant see that there are more than a handful of people behind all this, can i come to the next standing room only meeting? how will i find out about it?
      mike

    • #118006
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Membership of the Association is by invitation only, apogs.

    • #118007
      Anonymous
      Participant

      @HRGR Assoc wrote:

      Membership of the Association is by invitation only, apogs.

      Just the 3 of you then 😆

      Still keeps the refreshment bill down 8)

    • #118008
      Anonymous
      Participant

      @HRGR Assoc wrote:

      Membership of the Association is by invitation only, apogs.

      ohh thats interesting, what do i have to do to get an invite then?
      standing room only you say? was it in a phone box, your last AGM?
      seriously how does one get invited? bit secretive isnt it?
      do i have to do a daring moonlight raid on a HRGR committee member? or perhaps hack in to there computer?
      or chain my self to the gates on the workers compound?
      come on don’t be silly, its very un democratic is it not?
      mike

      p.s if it was in the bathroom of your apartment then you could get 3 standing in the bath and room for at least another 5 if you shut the door, please let me come! or have i burnt my bridges now?

    • #118009
      Anonymous
      Participant

      sums up the culture at Hacienda Riquelme.

    • #118010
      Anonymous
      Participant

      now we are going to get in to a slanging match, tit for tat, i was only adding my sense of humour to the conversation,
      sorry i didn’t know you did not have one.
      i was not meaning to be little you or your assn, as i have said im new here, i have extensively read all forums that you have been in contact with, and as an impartial owner with no axe to grind i am beginning to think this whole thing is just a little bit strange.
      i trying to make sense of it all but honestly, because i was dragged up on a council estate and went to secondary modern school and now run 4 companies my culture docent qualify me.

    • #118011
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Mike I am afraid that this is the effect that they have on all of us so you are not alone. They just do not get the fact that others may have a different point of view and want to disagree with them. Once you do you disagree with them, you are usually called a bully or you are accused of all sorts of slights against them., none of which they can back up.

      They really are on their own now and my estimation of just 3 in the HRGR association (which is not really a legally formed association) is pretty accurate and the numbers will not be growing as they have really run out of ideas now and are down to their last few forums.

      Hacienda is a great resort and as with all resorts we have issues but we have a good bunch of owners on the committee who work for all of us to try and solve any problems. The lakes will eventually be sorted out as they have been at LT where they had the same issues and we will move forward.

    • #118020
      Anonymous
      Participant

      POST MODERATED

      There was a complaint about publishing private information in this post, which is why it has been deleted.

    • #118027
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Luci aka Dan no one is listening to you anymore. The committee are still working despite your silly threats of legal action, the lakes will be filled eventually as they have been at LT and we will move on safe in the knowledge that you will never win against the vast majority of sensible owners. You and the other 2 in the HRGR Ass need to move on.

      Why you constantly want to attack your own resort on these public forums is anyone’s guess but it is certainly not normal behaviour.

      God help any of the other resorts reading this if you end up moving to one of their resorts.

    • #118030
      Anonymous
      Participant

      dan55, so what exactly in that report dont you like?
      i dont see any thing wrong with that, if its the HOLIDAY RESORT bit, then when i came to view HR La Torre and Mar Menor in nov 2005, it was made clear to me that HR would not have the facilities the others did, that it would be a quieter resort with exactly the facilities it has.
      If some owners dont tell the truth when they rent to renters then it is a problem, but i could see that problem with any of the Polaris or any golf resort if people come that are better suited to Ibiza or Benidorm, they are going to be frustrated.
      what if it was the owners son or daughter with there friends staying at an apartment? thats life.
      and thank goodness security are about, and doing the fine job they do.

    • #118046
      logan
      Participant

      Reading this thread I’m reminded how ex-pat communities in Spain spend their entire time fighting each other. It only happens in Spain. Elsewhere people tend to accept the rule of law and the status of elected officials. They may grumble a bit and occasionally protest when they don’t like decisions but infighting is left usually to the politicians.

      That is the way of course expat communities are set up. It’s no accident. The Spanish were shrewd enough decades ago to realise they would never be able to satisfy the demands of foreigners for service standards.

      Devolved local government in the hands of the property owners sounds an idyllic solution. Except they almost always end up fighting like ferrets in a sack. Some elected owners are hopeless managers the owners don’t pay their dues and services end up declining anyway.

      I was amused to read this so called association at this resort Hacienda Riquelme is by invitation only. 😀 It sounds a bit Masonic to me. Do you initiate members by blind folding them and rolling up their trousers and making them swear an oath?

      Of course these are the important issues Spanish property buyers never consider and are never truthfully explain by sellers. I have seen some vicious disputes in these communities which have the potential of tearing peoples lives apart.

      My best advice to you all is pack it in, get a life and try to cooperate with each other. This kind of forum board slanging match serves nobody’s interests.

    • #118048
      Anonymous
      Participant

      logan very sensible reply and observation, as a new resident just 8 months on HR i can tell you truthfully i did not know or realise any thing was wrong with out resort or that this infighting was going on,i have made a point of studying all that has gone on over the past year at HR I still believe nothing is wrong. there can be improvements made to sertain aspects of the management running the resort, but that will come over time. The Assn you speak of is not an official resort owners assn it is just a name that a small group of owners possibly 2 or 3, in 2 blocks out of 74 i believe, they have called themselves the HRGR Assn and as you said its invitation only, this small group (we know there names) just will not accept a democratic process, for what ever reason.
      So please dont think our resort is “village of the dammed” it certainly is not, and i cant wait to get back there in september.

    • #118071
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Luci & Cris who are the hrgr assoc’, amongst other names they use…they are a very selfish couple who’s intention is to try & get rid of our committee and then take l control of HR, for their own personal gains, they are ruining the reputation of this Great Golf Resort by telling lie after lie, they should be banned from the Resort, never mind the forums you post your poison on.

      do us all a favour and go to hell ! 😈

    • #118072
      Anonymous
      Participant

      @sooty wrote:

      Luci & Cris who are the hrgr assoc’, amongst other names they use…they are a very selfish couple who’s intention is to try & get rid of our committee and then take l control of HR, for their own personal gains, they are ruining the reputation of this Great Golf Resort by telling lie after lie, they should be banned from the Resort, never mind the forums you post your poison on.

      do us all a favour and go to hell ! 😈

      sooty, sorry but comments like this dont show HR or its residents in the best light either, please provide evidence of your accusations, i wonder if in fact as we have not had any response from the HRGR assn that this poster sooty may be them,
      trying to make HR look like village of the dammed. just does not make sense to come on as new poster and throw insults like this. 😕

    • #118075
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Milkyway You must be dreaming in the milkyway, i am defending HR, dohhhh, try reading the post again, why would HRGR assoc’ [cris & Luci] call themselves names & condem their own posts by insulting themselves…. 🙄 i may be new to this forum but i have been an owner on HR from day one so i know all about luci & cris who are a illegitamate self formed association – namely “hrgr assoc’, they must stand all alone now, as it seems they have been banned from all other forums except this one , no one likes them & they have no real supporters, only those made up by them 💡

      milky are you Cris & luci using yet another fake name ? 😆 😈

    • #118077
      Anonymous
      Participant

      @sooty wrote:

      Milkyway You must be dreaming in the milkyway, i am defending HR, dohhhh, try reading the post again, why would HRGR assoc’ [cris & Luci] call themselves names & condem their own posts by insulting themselves…. 🙄

      milky are you Cris & luci using yet another fake name ? 😆

      dohhh, so as to make HR residents look like a bunch of *&????%$ who are always calling the martins names and atacking them online. you have posted 2 posts exactly the same, cut & paste ring any bells, LUCI?

      if you are a genuine HR resident then slagging off the martins with out adding evidence is the wrong way to go about things.

    • #118078
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      milkyway are you real ? you are as bad as them , if not them..do us all a favour go get a life

    • #118080
      Anonymous
      Participant

      @sooty wrote:

      milkyway are you real ? you are as bad as them , if not them..do us all a favour go get a life

      mate im not getting into a slanging match with you. but your coming across like one of a pack of wolves, just sniping for the sake of it.

    • #118081
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Lucifer & Cristopher lee, or is it Dr Jekyll & Mrs Hyde..
      its not the Forums you should be talking to,its a Psychiatrist & preferably somewhere in the milkyway.. 😆

      PS,its the Martins who are the wolves, coyotes, & vultures.
      for those who dont know who the Martins are, its the hrgr assoc’,Luci & Cris, amongst other names. 😀

    • #118082
      Anonymous
      Participant

      The Association members do not identify themselves purely due to previous comments raised

      In terms of the recent statement, the chemicals comment relate to the pictures o[attachment=2:2ymt6pkh]chem1.jpg[/attachment:2ymt6pkh]f the communities gardeners spraying throughout the resort.

      There are NO pictures available of IRM spraying to date. Perhaps the Committee needs to satisfy itself that the chemicals are in keeping with good local practice and are not affecting the local wildlife.

    • #118086
      Anonymous
      Participant

      HRGR assn, i do not see anything wrong with what is going on in those photos, its just weed killer, and /or fertiliser,
      when you spray chemicals like this for a job you have to dress up in this gear, its all part of health and safety regs these days.
      at least the gardeners are doing some work., do you really think they would do any thing untoward with you there taking picturs and making notes?

    • #118087
      Anonymous
      Participant

      With a number of recent dead fish appearing in the lakes, we raised the question if there was a link between the chemicals being sprayed.

      The dead fish explanation of the fish being trapped on higher ledges, dying of lack of oxygen and coming to the surface when the the lakes are refilled does not make sense as the dead fish show no signs of decomposition and the lakes are getting lower and have not/are not being refilled

      In addition within 78 hours of our request for a list of chemicals being used and located on site, one of our owners emailed to state that some unidentified chemicals had been dumped on site.

      We still await STV comments on what the communities gardeners are spraying and what further chemicals exist on site.
      Proper due diligence by the administrators and committee should of covered these points 5 years ago.

    • #118091
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Please go and live somewhere else as you have no support anymore and these spiteful attempts at harming the reputation of Hacienda are pointless and if successful will only damage your property values as well, which just shows how deranged you have become. You are not an association, just 2-3 spiteful individuals that lost a fight and need to move on.

      All gardeners use sprays to control pests (not human ones unfortunately) and fungi. STV are a large reputable Spanish company that follow all EU guidelines on this work, as can be seen by the fact that their workers are wearing all the appropriate clothing.

      Time for you to go away now and leave us all in peace.

    • #118095
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Any group of owners can collectively come together and call themselves an Association anywhere in this world and there is no legally registered requirements to make this happen.

      In terms of membership then this was announced some time ago at: http://haciendariquelmeblog.blogspot.co.uk/2010/11/comunicado-announcement.html

      Collectively we work together for the long term aims of the resort with short term aims, (5 years) and mid term aims (15 years) being clearly defined amongst our members. If these take 5, 15 or 25 years to achieve then so be it as these are long term financial commitments.

      If the same commitment happened close to owners property in the UK, where chemicals were being sprayed which resulted in the odor from 400 meters away necessitating the requirement to close windows and doors then it would raise questions. If it was then reported that chemicals were being dumped and fish were dying then again further explanations would be sought.

      Spain is no different and as concerned owners we will raise whatever key issues are required to be addressed which should in good best practice already be in place

    • #118096
      Anonymous
      Participant

      HRGR assn i do see your point, why cant you just go to resortalia and get a print out of the chemicals used, satisfy your selves that nothing is untoward, or it there is, jump scream and tell the world.
      but dont just keep surmising that becouse there are dead fish in a lake that has lost most its water, and gardeners wear face masks and you can smell an odour that somthing fishy is going on.
      oh by the way be careful if it gets dark tonight, the sun might never come back, theirs a story for you, lets see how many forums and blogs you can get that on.

    • #118100
      Anonymous
      Participant

      STV, IRM, Restorali and all the phase presidents were asked for a list of chemicals on 13th August. We are more than happy to circulate this email to anyone that so requires as evidence.

      IRM duly replied on the 26th August to the same DL.

      The community administrators also requested a list of chemicals to be raised for the first time within the resort by STV and IRM, again with an email as evidence to support this on 6th August. To date no reply has been received. The new P7 PP also raised the same request on the 6th August.

    • #118101
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Whatever the reply you will spin it and state that we are all being poisoned etc etc. You will never be satisfied until the resort is dead, but the good news is you are losing and always will unless of course, we all leave and let the resort be run by the 3 of you, which I am afraid will never happen!

      I wonder what will be next, poisonous plants, trees, chemicals in the pool water and on and on it will go.

    • #118102
      Anonymous
      Participant

      HRGR assn valid points, pehaps the answers have gone to the commitee and you havant been included, due to your past behavior?, or perhaps there has been no answer yet, this is spain after all, unless you have not noticed.

      any way if i where you id be more concearned as to what gets sprayed on the orange groves and lemon groves right next to your block, thats goint to be far more air born than any garden chemicals.
      and dont say it wasent on the plans before you made your purchase.
      its good to be concerned, its bad to be paranoid, get some facts then tell us if we need to be concerned.
      we will thank you for it.

      here you go i just googled pesticides in spainish orange groves.
      here just one link, are our neighbouring farms organic? perhaps you should ask your self this question first.

      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/foodanddrink/3323355/Savvy-shopper-oranges.html

      Citrus fruits’ tough skins can hide a wealth of pesticide crimes, but it is possible to buy with a clear conscience, says Rose Prince
      If a banana’s secret weapon is its ability to ripen off the tree, the orange is the fruit with the winning attire. Once waxed, the tough, water and germproof protection of its skin is its secret weapon. Without it we would consume few oranges and without citrus fruit in our diet, we’d be a sorry lot.
      The closest orange groves regularly supplying the UK are in Spain, but the Spanish are by no means the world’s biggest growers. Look instead to Brazil and Florida, places where fields of citrus trees never seem to end.
      But while oranges, with their high vitamin C content, make a vital contribution, their cultivation gives the planet quite a bit of stress. Is it possible that we are consuming more citrus fruit than we need?
      Where do oranges come from?
      Originally from the Far East, but they are now grown in Brazil, the United States, the Middle East, Asia (China predominantly), Indonesia, southern Europe and Central America. Oranges from the US and Brazil are grown mainly for the juice industry, while Spain, the fourth-largest grower, grows mainly for the fresh-fruit markets. Note that while fresh fruit is highly nutritious, juice concentrates produced for the orange drink markets have little nutritional value.
      Where should we buy oranges from?
      In theory, it is best to buy from the country nearest to you. This applies to Christmas satsumas and clementines, too, because the distance travelled is the shortest and therefore the least greedy on food miles. Britain imports a good proportion of citrus fruit from Spain, 90 per cent of which travels here via road freight. Buying Spanish oranges is also the better, although not ideal, choice in terms of ethical farming practice.
      After that it is better to choose oranges from other southern European or Middle Eastern countries. Italy, Morocco, Israel and Egypt also produce oranges for the UK. Italy is the main producer of blood oranges, the delicious red-pigmented oranges that have a short season in February and March.
      How are oranges grown?
      Until 1980, 80 per cent of Spanish orchards were under three hectares in size. Methods were traditional and relied on natural fertiliser and ”flood” irrigation techniques. Most weeding, harvesting and pruning was done by hand. But as farms have consolidated and grown in size, heavy pesticide use has given Spanish fruit farms a bad reputation. Excessive water use is also an issue, with 6,000-9,000 cubic metres needed for every hectare.
      Are there pesticide residues on my orange?
      A shocking report in 1999 revealed that when 66 samples of oranges from all over the world were taken (by UK authorities), a cocktail of chemicals was found on each. While none exceeded the maximum residue levels set by the Government, there were some nasties on the oranges, including the romantically named 2,4-D, a herbicide that is toxic to humans and which easily leaches into soil and water.
      Overspraying was blamed and the British retailers, especially the big four supermarkets, have since asked supplying farmers to join a scheme to reduce the use of agricultural chemicals.
      What about sprays on other citrus fruit?
      The latest surveys showed residues on the majority of samples of limes, grapefruit and lemons. When satsumas were tested all were found to have residues. If you are not eating the peel, there is less to worry about.
      How can I avoid eating sprayed oranges?
      Buy organic oranges. Very few chemicals are available to organic farmers, while conventional farmers have hundreds to choose from. Organic growers can apply a mixture of fish and kelp products to the trees (these provide adequate quantities of nitrogen, phosphorous, potassium and micronutrients). At present they are also allowed to spray the lower part of trees with copper sulphate sprays. Washing all citrus fruit in warm water helps a little.
      Why are citrus fruits waxed?
      Citrus fruit has a fairly long shelf life compared to other fruits, but it is usually sprayed with a ”wax” coating to extend this. You can do much to remove it by scrubbing the orange with a soft brush in warm water. Organic producers are permitted to use wax, but bitter Seville oranges and some lemons are sold unwaxed because their peel is used in cooking.
      Are there pesticides in my marmalade?
      Again, this has been a huge problem, but Spanish farmers have taken steps to reduce the use of chemical spray. Organic marmalade is made from oranges grown with little or no spray and is now becoming much easier to buy.

    • #118103
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Another Sub Community President speaks out

      http://haciendariquelmeblog.blogspot.co.uk/2013/07/evolucion-del-lago-entre-las-calles-de.html

      SILVA PILAR said …

      Hello everyone:

      These days I was playing golf at the resorts referenced … and to my surprise … are completely full ALL WATER .., none are in the situation of Hacienda Riquelme …. I wonder why this comparison when we are in a privileged area of parks .. pass .. birds …. by the way I have seen ducks, egrets … etc …

      I expect a more convincing response, we lack water … as we paid the same price for playing and maintenance should be the same for all fields.

      A greeting

      Pilar Silva

      President sub-community

    • #118104
      Anonymous
      Participant

      i cant take any more of this…….
      why are you not carrying on with the previous comments/arguments?
      why are you jumping on to another comment? this was posted back in july as a comment to the photos of the empty lakes.
      so what? the lakes are empty we know. does Sn Silva know you are copying and pasting his comments?
      you keep reposting the same old links and stuff, ive had enough.
      im out,

    • #118105
      Anonymous
      Participant
    • #118106
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Oh well there you go that’s 4 owners in total so that must be right then and the other 1800 plus are incorrect. As the poster with the name like the light chocolate bar that you can enjoy between meals correctly posted, that comment is about the low water level in the lakes and we know that is an issue that will no doubt be resolved in due course. La Torre and other courses had similar problems until recently, and in fact at LT they had to sub-partition the largest lake in order to fill it due to the cost of water.

      I agree with Mikyway, you can carry on posting on here all on your own with your 2-3 mates and I guess we will all get on with our lives and ignore you. No libellous comments mind you!

    • #118107
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Following IRM’s direct email reply to the HRGR Association, we have requested further clarification and additional information concerning the water in the lakes. We have asked that they send to us detail documentation of the analysis of the lake water content samples which show the appropriate stamps and certification that verifies that they have appropriate approval within the law.

      We have also requested to learn when the lakes will be refilled and the quality of water to be used in keeping with the environmental impact study dated 17 August 2005.

      We also await a response from STV on these matters,a summary of the chemicals used in the resort as previously requested to the community administrators by our phase president and ourselves and confirmation of adherence to the Environmental Impact Study.

      Finally, in case there is ongoing confusion on the proposed wall to the area known as the workers compound, then as this is local authority land then it will need their stamped formal authority. We will formally object shortly to the local council that this area, being used as a rubbish dump and workers area, does not have the necessary legal infrastructure or planning permission and should therefore be closed down.

      We are available to meet in person if required to review this information and the proposed next steps.

    • #118109
      Anonymous
      Participant

      @HRGR Assoc wrote:

      We are available to meet in person if required to review this information and the proposed next steps.

      Ah a break through, i would be very interested to meet with you. please advise where and when?
      lets get this cleared up once and for all.

    • #118110
      Anonymous
      Participant

      We are totally prepared to raise, work and resolve our issues directly with the powers that be, be it STV, IRM, the local council or other interested parties however we will not meet up with any of the bunch of owners that class fellow owners as “lunatics” on such strong postive environmental matters that have been raised to date.

    • #118113
      Anonymous
      Participant

      @HRGR Assoc wrote:

      We are totally prepared to raise, work and resolve our issues directly with the powers that be, be it STV, IRM, the local council or other interested parties however we will not meet up with any of the bunch of owners that class fellow owners as “lunatics” on such strong postive environmental matters that have been raised to date.

      so sad, you build me up, then drop me like a stone, i have never called you a lunatic, or any other name, on 3 different forums, i beleive you have your points some are valid, its just the way you have gone about your business that has wound the majority of owners it would seem, as a newbee.
      i live on phase 7, how will i know who you are? do you wear a mask?

    • #118125
      Anonymous
      Participant

      @HRGR Assoc wrote:

      We are totally prepared to raise, work and resolve our issues directly with the powers that be, be it STV, IRM, the local council or other interested parties however we will not meet up with any of the bunch of owners that class fellow owners as “lunatics” on such strong postive environmental matters that have been raised to date.

      And of course you never insult anyone, so I wonder why were you banned from the official HRGR owners forum. Could it be because you posted various insults and attacks. How about the ones below as just a few examples:

      “The presidents newsletter is a complete joke painting good news and keeping the major issues with a gloss over at best,no mention at worse”

      “If they took time to do their homework or to listen to their fellow owners then forums like these would not be required”

      MORE COMMITTEE INFIGHTINGS AND COMMITTEE MEMBERS THAT JUST SIT THERE AND ADD NO VALUE

      Seems as if the new proposed planning committee is not to happy with the glass curtains on the terraces – one of the few key improvements owners have added value and comfort to their properties Not really a good start!

      Maybe it would be useful they ask for owners advice and expectations for the planning committee rather than putting their own limited views across.

      There were many others!!

    • #118108
      Anonymous
      Participant

      I’ve had to moderate several posts after complaints about personal details being revealed in an anonymous public forum.

      I’m now going to lock this topic. This discussion doesn’t belong in this forum. Please don’t start any new threads on the subject of Hacienda Riquelme – I know where it would lead.

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