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Hi, we are new to this site and we have just stumbled across it by accident, we have noticed there have been some posts regarding “Green Hills” development.
We were just wondering if anyone else is in the same or similar position as us and can give us any thoughts or advice.
With out going into too much detail we put a deposit down on a property several years ago and have just recently been to court to try and get our deposit back, unfortunately the court ruled against us and said we must complete even though there is no licence.
Our lawyer who appears to be honest enough and genuine has advised us to appeal the decision.
Just wondered if anyone else is in this position or has had their appeal heard and what was the outcome!
We also wondered what advise your lawyers are giving to you and have you been given any positive feed back regarding the outcome of the appeal.Any advise or help would be greatly appreciated as we are having many sleepless nights.
Regards from a worried and unhappy couple.
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Hi J.C 🙂
Sorry to hear about your situation and you will find that Green Hills is just one in a similar position. 😥
Not only does Green Hills not have an licence of occupation it is classed as an illegal build.
This illegal build is not withstanding that it does have planning permission to build,however it has been caught up in the corruption of the Marbella Council saga. 👿
There are two sides to this situation and I am afraid to say there is no defined answer to your question but the choices are clear
1 Carry on fighting your case.(if you are not in a position to complete then fight like hell to get your money back)
2 The developer is not in the best of financial states and if you won then getting payment would be very difficult unless it was a claim against the Banks (this may prove to be difficult) 😥
3. Dont complete and walk away and the advice at the moment is that the no one would attempt to try to claim any further for any looses they incur.
4 The advice is clear and that is you should not complete without all of the paperwork in place and that applies to thousands of others that are in the same situation
5 There are many however that have taken legal advice and are confident that the licences will soon follow and have decided to complete to avoid loosing a subsantial deposit and as far as I am aware simply love the development.(which is more than can be said about most other properties on dozens of other developments) 😕
6 There are also many that predict a downturn in property values which would offset losses in loosing the deposit(however Green Hills was well priced against other developments in the area and price falls of those predicted may not follow here)
7 There are also many that feel that over the longer term Marbella will fair well on the financial front and this development is in one of the best areas on the Costa de Sol and the fact that building licences are no longer available it could work out well in the end. 🙂
If you bought for short term financial gain then forget it,If you bought as a holiday home,second home or medium to long term investment then the reasons you decided to buy are still there.
Those that havent completed, those that are trying to not complete including many large number of investors 😯 ,those no tangible interests and many solicitors will tell you not to complete and there is no argument to that.
There are some like me that listen to the facts that a successful legal solution will unlikely succeed in this case(you would loose further money in fees) and have decided to complete and none have regretted it as at the moment we have something, being a property instead of just deposit which can be lost tomorrow. 🙁
We all probably have had sleepless nights over properties in similar situations and the only comfort I can give is it really is a very nice development and is maturing very well. 🙂
Sorry I cant give you the answer you are looking for and feel that the answer is not there and is going to be down to each of us to make our own minds up after obtainng information from every source. 😕Frank 8)
P.S if you havent seen the development lately I have many photos if you want any confirmation of how nice its turning out,better still with more paying community fees, -
Hi Frank.
Thanks for taking the time to reply, we have studied your points with great thought and consideration, but like you say we still feel there is no easy solution and that the answer may not be out there just yet as there are still many unanswered questions.
Do you have anymore information on why Green Hills is classed as an illegal build ❓
On point 2, re-the developer not in the best of financial states, could you possibly clarify this anymore.
On point 5, regarding people who have decided to complete, do you have any idea of numbers and do you have any contact with these people and if these people are in for short term financial gain or if they have bought for long term holiday/ second home reasons.
Would you have any idea who is currently responsible for the upkeep and on going maintenance of communal areas.
We were just wondering if you are in, or been in, a similar situation as us, or just that you are already living in the area with knowledge of the current situation and are able to pass information onto others like us.
We last saw the development in September 2007 and it looked as though it was being well maintained and not left unattended.Thanks again for your help we are just trying to gather as much information as we possibly can.
JC
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Hi J.C 🙂
Firstly you are correct that there is no easy solution and and no defined answer until or if the L.O.F and full planning gets approved. 😥
In simple terms planning was approved around 1985 for town houses and revised and approved for apartments at a later date.
The problem then came when the corruption s-it which hit Marbella which meant that only original planning ie the town houses would be reconized until a complete review of developments caught in the net. 👿
This can and may be a long time before this is sorted as there is a mass backlog of cases.(however there is good news coming through but will have to get it confirmed)
Now it is down to thousands of people to take a view and listen to advice from forums but more important from your legal advisor regarding your particular case.
As stated this development was sold to a large number of investors who cannot or will not complete due to the market halting, indeed forcast to fall and the problems with the planning is an opportunity to try to avoid completing. 😯
It is also clear that this development has had more than its fair share of the limelight and there are genuine ones that feel very unhappy and rightly so refuse to complete and I hear are prepared to loose their deposits. 😥
On many developments I would do the exact same thing.
Some of us have decided that we are not prepared to loose our deposit and at the risk of the developer going bust have completed and are prepared to take a longer term view.(not much option really ) 😆
Yes I have been in your position and no I do not live there but fortunate to have a good freind and soilcitor that gave me the facts involved for me to make up my own mind (also updates me with any goss)
Yes I have contact with others and have had the pleasure of meeting some neighbours while taking a break ( all really do love this development and thats just a straight forward opinion)
You are doing the right thing in obtaining as much info as you can ,both good and bad then you will have all the facts to make your own informed decision. 😕
There are some valued members on this forum that also have extensive knowledge of this development and tend to take the alternative opinion that completing should not be an option without all of the paperwork.
This is indeed something you must and should should listen to and as these are very valued arguments supported by the majority and factors you must fully consider. 😕Whatever you decide I wish you well
Frank 8)
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Dear jc
Would you have any idea who is currently responsible for the upkeep and on going maintenance of communal areas.
On past form this developer has used SAGESA http://www.sagesa.net. In case you are unclear the community should now be in place, I’m sure Frank has said in the past that he has water and electricity and I’m sure he’ll be paying community fees.
The community will have a president (most likely the developer or a rep of the developer) and an AGM will have taken place, where a budget would have been presented. This means that the developer has to pay community charge for ALL of the apartments not sold. He will delay payment as long as he can, in the hope that he can sell apartments prior to the next AGM. He has to pay ALL of his outstanding community fees prior to the AGM so he can vote at it, something he will want to do as he owns more than 60% of the apartments there.
He’s a bit stuck really he has to make sure the apartments, grounds and pools etc look good else no one will buy, yet he must be strapped for cash as he’s doing the same on another development in the area. SAGESA will be trying to work within budget for the sake of their business.
I’m sure if you called SAGESA and asked for a copy of the AGM minutes, the budget and the date time and place of the next AGM (most likely May or June) they would supply all to you. You should ask for a copy of the statutes also if you don’t have them. Just ask for the coordinator for Green Hills.
I don’t own in Green Hills, I own a holiday apartment in a development down the road near santa maria golf course. We don’t have a LFO although our development was finished before most of the brown smelly stuff hit the fast rotating object.
No advice, just info to help…. I hope
Good luck
Regards
Paul
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@p800aul wrote:
Are you still there jc or have you been PM’ed into a decision?
Yes still here and thanks for your info, however no decision yet,thanks to all who have made comment but would still like to hear more views and advice.
This is not going to be an easy decision,probably the hardest so far in my life, so we will have to consider all things known to us and even things unknown which may or may not happen in the future. ❓
The outcome of this unfortunate saga will have a major impact on the rest of our lives i fear and time is probably against us should it all go wrong. 🙁 -
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jc
Yep its a big on all right but you really have the info in front of you.
As is said the time is ticking away and if your solicitor is suggesting to go for an appeal perhaps it may be a good idea to get another one to go over the probabilities of success/time scales and costs.
Sure that Paul would let you have details of his solicitor/I am more than happy to supply mine.
The simple fact is that every solicitor will say not to complete and so they should however as I have said there is no plan B advice 😕Frank 8)
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Dear jc
Sure that Paul would let you have details of his solicitor/
While he did me a great job they are not well liked here, so best not!
The questions I would ask myself now would be the following.
Is it a holiday home?
Do I like the place now it’s finished?
Did I accept the cancellation of the golf course from the developer?
Am I going to keep it for 5 years or more.
If the answers to the above are yes then I would be less inclined to go to appeal. I would just be happy and enjoy it. I think this board came to the conclusion a while ago that the likelihood of this development being pulled down is remote.
Having said that, if you hate the place, think it’s not what you wanted, you wanted the golf course, can’t afford it or it was just a speculative buy which you wanted to sell for a profit. I would fix a price with my solicitor and go to appeal. The cost of an appeal will be the lesser loss short term.
I think it is fair to say that this developer is stuck at the moment he has at least two developments in the area in similar positions i.e. less that 50% completed. He will be pushing people like you as hard as he can to complete. Maybe you should be pushing him for an incentive to sign?
It’s down to you, you have to be happy with this, why not rent there for a while and suck it and see?
Regards
Paul
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Charlie 😉
As this posting relates to this thread hope you dont mind me re-posting it so readers can see it 😆Charlie Posted
Frank – Paul’s development isn’t Green Hills.
As for the destination, have never knocked Elviria. Really like it there which is why we wanted to buy there in the first place. Especially top of the hill where our apartment was supposed to be with seaviews (shame not one brick ever got built).What’s happened to the Green Hills thread by the way, are you not wanting to wear your jc hat anymore?
I did enjoy the hoax and appreciated all the effort you put in writing all those posts.Word of advice: If you want to pretend to be someone else, you have to change your style. Too many Frank-isms for ‘jc’ to be credible, totally gave the game away am afraid.
jc Its considered that Green Hills was better value and as is confirmed here its a great area
Frank 8)
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Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 10:07 am Post subject:
jc, you have only a small time frame in which to make an appeal, so I would advise you to hurry up and make a decision to appeal ,or complete. I’m surprised your lawyer hasn’t told you this!
Claire we know we have to decide quickly,our lawyer is pushing us for
decision,thanks anyway.Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 12:42 pm Post subject:
jc
Yep its a big on all right but you really have the info in front of you.
As is said the time is ticking away and if your solicitor is suggesting to go for an appeal perhaps it may be a good idea to get another one to go over the probabilities of success/time scales and costs.
Sure that Paul would let you have details of his solicitor/I am more than happy to supply mine.
The simple fact is that every solicitor will say not to complete and so they should however as I have said there is no plan B adviceHi frank, our lawyer is not saying to do any one particular thing, he is giving us options,we are just trying to find out what other people in our situation would/are doing.
Thank you for your offer, but at this time we feel we do have confidence in our lawyer.Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 1:12 pm Post subject:
Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 1:12 pm Post subject:
Dear jc
Quote:
Sure that Paul would let you have details of his solicitor/While he did me a great job they are not well liked here, so best not!
The questions I would ask myself now would be the following.
Is it a holiday home?
Do I like the place now it’s finished?
Did I accept the cancellation of the golf course from the developer?
Am I going to keep it for 5 years or more.
If the answers to the above are yes then I would be less inclined to go to appeal. I would just be happy and enjoy it. I think this board came to the conclusion a while ago that the likelihood of this development being pulled down is remote.
Having said that, if you hate the place, think it’s not what you wanted, you wanted the golf course, can’t afford it or it was just a speculative buy which you wanted to sell for a profit. I would fix a price with my solicitor and go to appeal. The cost of an appeal will be the lesser loss short term.
I think it is fair to say that this developer is stuck at the moment he has at least two developments in the area in similar positions i.e. less that 50% completed. He will be pushing people like you as hard as he can to complete. Maybe you should be pushing him for an incentive to sign?
It’s down to you, you have to be happy with this, why not rent there for a while and suck it and see?
Regards
Paul
Hello paul, in answer to your questions,
yes it was holiday home
yes we like the look of it,but havent seen inside so cant say for sure.
no we were not informed about the golf course or clubhouse, the developer kept putting us off and making excuses whenever we asked.
yes we were going to keep it for more than 5years.
It is not so much about if we like it or not or if we can afford it, all that sort of stuff is pretty much sorted out, it is the unknown bits of what may happen in the future with licences and any possible compensation issuses which may arise and who will be paying the ongoing comunity fees if the place remains empty, its all these sort of things we need to consider.
It is never going to be the same development as it was promised to us, so we have to decide from there.
we will be in touch with our lawyer again early next week.Cheers for now, jc
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Hi jc
Sounds like the lawyers is O.K.
Yes have to consider the facts you mentioned but in the end more people will move in even if the Banks take them back and re-sell them.
At least you were not looking for a short term profit and you are in a position that its you that will make whatever decision you feel is right for you.
As always if I hear anymore info I will postFrank 8)
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Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 7:24 pm Post subject:
Quote:
There should be something in the purchase contract that the developer should pay this.There’s your bargaining chip complete but ask for 20,000 euros to be held by your lawyer until you get a LFO
Great point Katy
Regards
Paul
Yes certainly a valid point, will note this and will be one of many things to put to our lawyer.
Cheers jc
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Hi jc
This is a reply from one of the ful time resident at Green Hills and the contents speak for themselvesAS regards ocupation, things are starting to happen, i am seeing more apartments now being completed and being furnished for either rental or themselves – just seem to be more movement about. thanks
Frank 8)
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