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I have been looking in on this forum for the last few months but will not visiting this site again. Everytime I have logged on the contributor named “Paul” seems to be using this forum as a personal vendetta against everyone involved in his purchase in Spain.
As the man said- here’s the wood. build a bridge and get over it….[/b]
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I think I heard the door slam behind Keith as he left the forum for good, so I guess he won’t be reading this.
However if anyone other than the lovely Dorothy decides to stay, all I can say is that I hope you benefit from reading the different points of view expressed in this forum.
Whilst I can confess to being slightly exasperated by Paul’s single-minded focus on the dark side of the Spanish property business, I think it’s important for prospective buyers to find out a bit about it. But balance is what is needed, and the reality is that very few buyers have a genuinely bad experience. For the record we also like to hear from the great majority of people for whom buying in Spain has been nothing but a success.
But most of all I hope this forum is just plain useful, where people can learn from others, and from some of the experts such as lawyers and chartered surveyors who so kindly give up their time to contribute here.
Mark
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Dorothy, Claire, Jon, Tania, and to all those as well who have contacted me for advice ‘based on my experiences’, quite a lot of them too, it seems I may have to go, but I hope some of it has been of help.
I guess Keith works for an agent and may well have flitted from another website that is clearly biased.
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If people want to contribute to open discussions then they must also be prepared for criticism! What you must always bear in mind is that the criticism is only the opinion of the poster. It is up to the other users to decide for themselves based on the evidence provided, whether someone’s advice is good or not. Keep posting Paul. 😮
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I found this forum whilst considering purchasing in Spain. Although we have invested elsewhere instead, we are still hoping to purchase in Spain at a later date, hence I log on a couple of times a day to keep up with the latest posts.
I just want to say keep posting Paul, but please can I echo Marks statement….”But balance is what is needed, and the reality is that very few buyers have a genuinely bad experience. For the record we also like to hear from the great majority of people for whom buying in Spain has been nothing but a success.” …are there any members out there who have had a successful purchase and are willing to inspire confidence in the Spanish system for me? 🙂
Eileen.
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re there any members out there who have had a successful purchase and are willing to inspire confidence in the Spanish system for me? Smile
I’ve bought both on the CDS and Inland, The CDS property was my first holiday home – NOT off plan! – I used the awful estates and was harassed and sent to Del Valle solictors to get my deposit down before I had a chance to think. As it happens DV was busy and I found my own solicitor from yellow pages. -“( luckily as DV is in the middle of the White Whale scandal.) The purchase was simple no problems again it wasnt a off-plan so no associated problems however I was charged 1.5% by the lawyer as he had to translate into English!!. we used the house happily for 2-3 years now I want to sell it as we have bought a new house. Thats where the problems begin. NO estate agent on CDS is interested in resale properties plus there are thousands of resales on the market from people who bought for “investment” and now cannot sell them at a profit. Our house was on a hill side with “protected” land around us, except in Marbella province the level of corruption was so high that for a few bob the town hall gave licenses to build to any developer who was able to meet the mayors bribe. The hillside behind the house is now a building site for hundreds of 2 bed 2 bath off-plan appartments. Imagine trying to sell the house now!!
Our second house is Inland – in Spain!! – we bought in Spanish with NO UK agents/lawyers involved. Commission was 2% for the buyer and 2% from the seller. My lawyer charged me about 1500E much less than 1%. He found a Notary who spoke english and translated all the documents/conversations into english to make sure I totally understood everything that went on. Despite the fact that the seller was the Major’s son and the Notary was very well know, they both managed to “accidently” underdeclare the value on the Escitura! – so I will be stung for additional CG tax when I sell.
SO I think the moral of the story is – buyer beware!! – expect things to go wrong and to be shafted and be DOUBLY careful and check everything twice. You are in a Southern European country where standards are different from UK. The mentality of the people is that you are a rich foreigner and “deserve” to be ripped off. Its the same in Italy and the Eastern European countries.
If you avoid off-plan on CDS – its is as Drakan says past its prime. You will NOT be able to sell at a profit if you buy one of the big 2 bed/2bath appartments. Prices are dropping on CDS. If you buy Inland for your own use then in a number of years you will make a profit – but its no longer guaranteed in fact you have proabably left it to late. Had you bought in 2000 and sold now – then you would probably have made 30% -50% but please remember that its only 10% a year not the 25% agents talk about.
I am happy with the experience of my Inland purchase the CDS was a minefield of corruption and NOT for the inexpienced buyer unless you want a holiday home which you have no intention of selling in the near future.
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The beauty of an internet forum is that one can criticise people one hardly knows, being rather more open and harsher even, than normal polite society allows face to face.
It also allows one to keep one’s teeth where they should be.
I just can’t understand why some people throw their toys out of the pram. Are they the same sort that are always storming out of meetings/restaurants and pubs?
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Having been a member of this forum and posted on a few occasions I just thought I would add my own comments.
I bought my first place in Spain in 2001 in Playa De Piles – North Costa Blanca, where I now live. It was a run down apartment and I guess I got in when the going was good, because I paid €60,000 for an apartment now worth €220,000. However I hope I never have to sell it because I love it.
My experience of the buying process was good. Although the agent (I subsequently found out) did over charge me, it amounted to €12,000 which has more than been repaid. I was a novice and looking for a holiday home. The whole process went smoothly and for all the charges the agents made they did look after me and my parents when they bought – long after the sale (even helping me translate while talking to my first Spanish Girlfriend on the phone).
I have since bought a place for investment – not off plan but brand new. I am trying to sell it but it is not going for what it was supposedly valued at when I bought it (although I bought it for much less). However I haven’t lost money on it and if I sell it now will at least break even. However it is a good rental property and on two years has returned about the mortgage payments on it (which are high)
In the second case the agents couldn’t have done enough for me and I ended up working for them (and still do some writing work for them) and even long after the sale they are still willing to help their clients (friends have since bought in the same development and whenever there is a problem the agents will always hep out)
I know agents in Spain get a bad reputation and mostly justifiably so, but there are some gems out there who will help you make the process smooth as possible. I know of at least 3 locally who have excellent reputations and charge a reasonable amount – 3%-5%. This may be a lot by UK standards but which agent do you know in the UK would take you to register and get a NIE number, set up a bank account for you, help you get a good rate on your currency transfer, organise a mortgage for you, take you to the notaries (if they signed in front of the notary) and help you buy a car, find a builder, get a job and so much more. So when you look at it 5% isn’t a huge amount.
I have been the biggest detractor of agents and still am – I don’t like to see people ripped off, but in order to provide balance – there are some real good agents out there who will make your life so much easier, and some lawyers who will act on your best interests, and people who will genuinely care about you because they want you back as a customer sometime in the future.
These are the people you should look for. They are just hard to find. But like everything in life if you look hard enough you will find them.
Good luck – it isn’t all plain sailing but then again it isn’t all bad. I for one love living in Spain and would wholeheartedly recommend it. however having been to the CdS a few times I doubt if I could live down there
regards and best wishes
Vince
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I know agents in Spain get a bad reputation and mostly justifiably so, but there are some gems out there who will help you make the process smooth as possible. I know of at least 3 locally who have excellent reputations and charge a reasonable amount – 3%-5%. This may be a lot by UK standards but which agent do you know in the UK would take you to register and get a NIE number, set up a bank account for you, help you get a good rate on your currency transfer, organise a mortgage for you, take you to the notaries (if they signed in front of the notary) and help you buy a car, find a builder, get a job and so much more. So when you look at it 5% isn’t a huge amount.
Notary, NIE, bank account = Agents dont do this your lawyer does!
what???? are you in fantasy land? help you find a car ? Job?
Oh yes I see you write for an Agency! – that might explain your rosy view and all the extra help you received….
Sorry but I cant belive Agents are our new best friends – quite the opposite once they have your deposit you never can get hold of them again.
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Guest, I wholeheartedly share your cynicism with regards to agents, but by an amazing coincidence, I “know” Vince. I have actually been to a very nice apartment that he owned with my son (when he was living just along the road from me, in the UK) who was looking to buy it from him. He is a genuinely nice guy………unless you’ve been corrupted Vince??? 😆
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Sorry Guest but you are wrong
I may write for an agent soemthing which I have already admitted to. I even worked for an agency and acted as a buyers agent. I also wrote a book about how to avoid payoing too much for you rproperty – which covers how agents work and what the charges are – and before I came here had my own business writng software – nothing to do with estate agents in Spain
My initial purchase was made without any knowledge of the Spanish Property market – and yes the agent did help out long after the sale – even to the point of helping me translate to my then spanish girlfriend. So whilst a lot of agents may well forget you after the money is in the bank – not all can be tarred with the same brush – otherwise why do people go back to these agencies time and time again – they are either very happy or very dumb.
Notary,NIE and bank account – I have been to something like 20 signings and i have only seena lawyer at one of them. That may be the practice where you are but up here the agent looks after these items.
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I really thank all those who have supported my postings, and as most of you know my gripe has been with one particular agent and their lawyers,(who hasn’t?) because they still are misleading people.
I have not had a go at any smaller agent either, and I’m sure many of them do a good job, I wish we had maybe met one of them when we purchased instead of the rogue one.
I checked a list kept of people who had contacted me over the last 3 years or so, 47 people had contacted me regarding problems with that agent or their lawyers, and 16 had contacted me regarding problems with other agents and lawyers. As a result, some 30 or so had either managed to get back their reservation deposits or are still waiting to, or decided to walk away without putting more money into the off-plan investment they were sold and are glad they have done so. I am also still happy to tell others about some of the pitfalls if they wish. Some of these people are pensioners who have been clearly distressed as are others also.
I am also sorry that Mark has sometimes felt exasperated by my rantings about this Company, I have promoted this site heavily from early on as the ‘only’ unbiased site re Spanish property.
Like you Claire, I don’t remember Keith posting before, (he or she) is remarkably similar in attitude towards me as someone on another site which allows uncensored postings from employees of that agent. I guess this person may have contacted Mark first which may have led to their comments, although I hope that’s not the case!
I hope this clears the air somewhat.
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Notary, NIE, bank account = Agents dont do this your lawyer does!
what???? are you in fantasy land? help you find a car ? Job?
Oh yes I see you write for an Agency! – that might explain your rosy view and all the extra help you received….
Sorry but I cant belive Agents are our new best friends – quite the opposite once they have your deposit you never can get hold of them
again.I have to agree with vbtudor they are some gems around.
we bought our property through a small “one man band” Spanish agency a year ago and the agent and his assistant could not have been more helpful during the purchase.
He has since helped out with getting insurance quotes for us, finding a good cheap local plumber and builder and has offered to help us buy a car when we need one. The young assistant also offered to accompany us to the bank to help open our account, but we managed ok on our own. She did however come in very useful when we needed to sort out a miss understanding at the electricity company re a bill they said had not been paid.
I suppose being in a small town where everyone seems to know everybody else does help keep standards up, as news of anyone giving bad service would soon spread.We often see the agent in our local bar and have a drink and a chat and now count him as a friend.
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@Paul wrote:
I am also sorry that Mark has sometimes felt exasperated by my rantings about this Company, I have promoted this site heavily from early on as the ‘only’ unbiased site re Spanish property.
Like you Claire, I don’t remember Keith posting before, (he or she) is remarkably similar in attitude towards me as someone on another site which allows uncensored postings from employees of that agent. I guess this person may have contacted Mark first which may have led to their comments, although I hope that’s not the case!
Don’t panic.
I don’t think we’ve lost Paul just yet.
Paul, your contribution is highly valued so stick around.
BTW, to clarify, the original poster hasn’t contacted me. My comment was intended to coax you into sharing more of your knowledge, not less.
Mark
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