- This topic has 65 replies, 10 voices, and was last updated 16 years, 11 months ago by
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More & more people are having to pay thousands of Euros to take out embargoes, when they lose cases & when they win them (when the developer doesn’t pay up as ordered by the Judge). When these embargoes are placed on illegal properties I’m wondering what value this has, as it is now illegal to purchase a property without an LFO, & if a Notary allows this he is breaking the Law.
Seems to me it would make more sense to put an embargo on the developer’s bank account. But maybe this is not possible ❓ 😕
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We had to go to court to have our money recovered from the developer.
The judge ordered them to return our money but they ignored the judges order and so we had to go beck to the court to get an embargo put on their bank account to force them to pay up. We did not have to pay anything extra to get this done but the thing people must be aware of is that you are only allowed to pick 2 accounts on which to place the embargo. Developers have many accounts in various banks but you are given a choice of what 2 banks on which to put it… if you pick the wrong bank account (ie the account in which the developer has no money in) you are then faced with the prospect that it will serve no purpose as there will be no money in the account so the developer dose not care.
We, or I should say my brilliant solicitor picked the 2 correct bank accounts in that they were the accounts that had money in them so we were very fortunate in that within hours of putting on the freeze they were phoning our solicitor saying they would pay up.
All this stress, upset and money we had to pay in solicitor and court fees to get our money back on a broperty that was built illegally in the first place. -
I had to go to court to get deposit back but was lucky in that the developer in question had the funds to refund.
However it cost me 10k in legal fees to get the 63k deposit back. Ouch!
I could have gone back to court for the legal fees but there was no guarantee I would be successful and it would have cost more in legal costs; furthermore I was advised if a different judge was hearing the case I might not have been successful getting anything back!!!
So it was a case of ‘bird in the hand i.e. 63k etc’.
The problem as I see it is, if one goes to court to get deposit back on an illegal development, one should firstly get your Solicitor to check if the developer has the necessary funds for a refund.
‘bettyboo’ was lucky to have a good Solicitor who was able to check into her developer accounts and confirm there were funds there for her court approved refund.
Did ‘bettyboo’ get her legal costs? -
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Hi Claire
I agree 100% with you but I had no BG.
My Solicitors at the time were ‘Mike Echo’!!!
BG’s were not mentioned by them and I was not aware I was entitled to one.
It cost me 10k to find out – the hard way.
I hope my experience – many others had the same experience – will prevent those, who read this forum and are thinking of buying in Spain, from making the same mistake.
Prospective buyers of Residential Property in Spain are legally entitled to a Bank Guarantee. Make sure your Abogado insists it is in the contract and that it is water tight.
Furthermore the developer has to pay for the BG. -
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Hi There everyone.
Just to fill you in and answer your questions.
NO!!!…we did not get out court costs, we had to pay about 7,500 euro in fees. We did however get interest on the money and guess what? the interest ammounted almost exactly to the ammount of fees we had to pay so we basically just got our money back. From what we observed during the hearing we were indeed very lucky that the judge even ordered them to give us back our money….it was only because we had a brilliant and HONEST!!! SOLICITOR that we got anthing at all
The second comment by Claire who was saying about the Bank Guarantee
well we DID!! have a bank guarantee as we insisted on having one from the very start but even though our apartment had no LFO the solicitor decided it was no use going after the bank to honour the guarantee that it would be only waste time and basically we got the impression that they are not much use. Actually when we did get the bank guarantee the estate agent through which we purschased the property asked could he see it as he had never seen a bank guarantee before, imagine that!
so that is basically it… Did have bank guarantee…. did not get costs.
and from what transpired during the hearings which I cannot say here I put no faith whatsoever in the Spanish legal system, we only got our money back because we had a strong, honest solicitor who would not be swayed or bullied by anyone. -
I’ve been reminiscing this morning over the last 2 years of posting on SPI. It seemed then that there were so many questions about bank guarantees & lots to learn about them, that so many of us needed to know. Then there was the Malaya case. Each day news of more arrests & discoveries about our ‘properties’.
Now, as more & more of us are eventually getting to Court, I think there may be many more questions about embargoes.
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does anyone know?……. if an embargo is bought in to action because a developer has no funds, whether the embargoed property is given in whole, as a repalcement for the funds, or if the the embargoed property is always sold first (perhaps by auction?) and then funds equal to the court decission then obtained from the sale? I assume the latter is true?
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Hi everyone!
In answer to shakeel’s question?
I can not honestly say how he knew which bank account to pick. I do know that he was given a list of all the banks in Spain and told he could ONLY pick 2 and if he picked the wrong 2 then tough . I think it was just clever assumption on the biggest banks and the banks that they did their business with and also Devine intervention that he picked the correct 2 acounts…the one where they had most of their money.
Next time I see our Lawyer in Spain as we do still keep in touch and send christmas cards and such to each other I will make sure my husband asks him (as I cannot speak Spanish) I will let you all know as it may help some more.Hope I was of some help!
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Hi Suzanne 😆
On the subject of bank guarantees.AND EMBARGOS
Following your success we are trying to get the banks to pay out on the bank guarantee before going to court as the developer has instructed the banks not to pay out.This is the reply from a respected solicitor regarding the stance the banks are now taking.
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REPLY
All banks are now refusing to refund the bank guarantees and their answer is to go to court. They know the time scale it takes and this is in their favour as most Spanish banks are financially at the limit and therefore can not keep refunding clients as the last thing they want is to take on more properties in particular illegal properties.
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Now what was the point of bank guarantees in the first place and remember I paid for the extra bank guarantee MYSELF. 😯
Developers with no money,illegal properties to have embargos put on them which could in some cases end up worthless and banks that refuse to honour a legal undertaking.
THEY ARE JUST SAT WAITING FOR THOUSANDS OF ORDINARY PEOPLE TO RUN OUT OF MONEY AND GO BUST IN MANY CASES PAYING SOLICITORS THAT GOT THEM IN THE PROBLEM IN THE FIRST PLACE.THIS SIMPLY STINKS 😈
Just Frank 8)
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THIS SIMPLY STINKS – Yes Frank, to high heaven!
So the developers are now ordering the banks around are they 😯 Surely it should be the other way around. Maybe we should be suing the banks now too 😯
Seems to me that the only way most of us will get our money back is via embargoes; impounding properties via the courts & selling them at auction.
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@Suzanne wrote:
So the developers are now ordering the banks around are they 😯 Surely it should be the other way around. Maybe we should be suing the banks now too 😯
I can only speak for our developer, but know that (at least some of) the Bank Guarantees were only issued based on personal assets of the developer’s directors. For obvious reasons, these directors put pressure on the banks not to pay out and am sure the bank was loathe to get into the mess of ordering these directors to start liquidating.
As for suing the banks, even a good lawyer is loathe to try cracking that coconut.
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Goodstich 44
There are indeed many threads on B.Gs Thanks for pointing this out.
However my posting refered to embargos on property from the developers that in some cases could be worthless.
Bank guarantees are mentioned within this thread and rightly so felt it fine to bring this up.
At the end of the day I wouldnt care if I have to embargo cash/assets from the developer, the bank Marbella Town all or The Spanish Government I just want the justice that you keep posting about 😉Just Frank 8)
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Frank , judging by the quote below, Goodstitch and Suzanne have the same lawyer. OR..is goodstitch saying he uses Lawbird? Either way, good lawyers with a proven track record
Goodstitch quotes:
As we are using the same lawyers, and have our case coming up soon, it’s even more encouraging for us. They certainly have teeth!
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Claire
thanks for that. I thoroughly recommend anyone having a try. The final weeks training (about 6x 20 mile training runs in my case) are hard, but make other things in life, like our ongoing Spanish nightmare, easier to deal with, and leaves you with a ‘peace of mind’ i’d not known before……once recovered that is!
The marathon day itself is an amazing roller coaster of emotion, pain, joy, and incredible satisfaction when you cross the line, and even more so if you improve on your previous time. -
Hi Claire
🙂 You posted.
Frank , judging by the quote below, Goodstitch and Suzanne have the same lawyer. OR..is goodstitch saying he uses Lawbird? Either way, good lawyers with a proven track record .Totally agree with that as recommendation is everything and you have to be confident with the lawyer you are useing to look after your interests at all times INCLUDING fees charged.
Not sure which or who uses what solicitor but by all accounts we should have worked it out in this instance:?Well done Goodstich 44.
I can say I was there and completed it several years back and like most would not have missed it for the world.
Bloody good effort bud and good on ya 😀 and if you can beat that you can beat a simple matter you have in Spain because it takes balls.Just Frank 8)
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Suzanne – as long as you have the right to sell then they can be sold at any price. Place the reserve across the 3 as a third of what you need to relevie your outlay and costs, anything left goes to the previous owner
If they are embargoed, then its surely down to you but you may need a court order allowing you to actually sell them not just embargo (hold) them.
I havent been involved in Spain with these but that was in the UK years ago – I BET its different here
Ask your lawyer if you can proceed and either the developer will cough up OR I would be please to hold a special auction for them – plenty of press as well for Penarroyo!
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Suzanne/Claire
had our first hearing today. Court appearence in April 2009, and we have to be there in Malaga!!
A long way away, but the good news is that our lawyer is confident of a good result after providing our evidence today . I can’t say more at the moment. A few more ends to tie up.
The in-place embargo is also a big help.
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Goodstich 44
Sounds similar to me and 2009 seems the timescale before I get to court.
Trouble is alot can happen to developers,embargos and of course there is the appeal 😈
Suzanne and myself have been aware that in our case the development is now very shabby through lack of maintanance .
Dogs barking,sh-t everwhere,pikeys with cars abandoned ( with G.B Plates in the main) 👿
Just cant see the developers hanging around and waiting for us and knowing Spains legal system I will count nothing until its in the bag.
Many apartments are rented by staff of the E.A that cant be mentioned on this forum.
Let you get back to yer Monty Python thread as I hate to take this off course and start posting about Spanish Property and embargos 😉Just Frank 8)
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@Just Frank wrote:
….. 2009 seems the timescale before I get to court.
Trouble is a lot can happen to developers, embargos ……I’m certainly no expert, but surely an embargo is an embargo, no matter what happens re. the status of a developer in the future eg. bankrupt/disappeared etc.?
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Claire
yes, i have good reason to feel positive at long last. By keeping the pressure on the scum bags with the help of a good lawyer, and support of good people, such as yourself, Suzanne, Charlie, Katy, Mike, Bettyboo, Mark, Inez etc. (There is a common thread, those who call a spade a spade, post consistent views and blame the guilty, not the victims!!) there is more chance of justice than ever.
Keep on fighting!!
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Further thoughts on embargos. ❓
On winning your case the judge would issue and embargo on any assets of a company including property bank accounts, cars etc.
One problem with bank accounts is which ones,?Do they any have reserves held ,in what names and which country.
Banks will of course help the developers hide their/our money.
Assets in the main will probably be leased or hired.
The banks I assume have first charge on the property, including all outstanding mortgages and from the sale price this would have to be paid less sales and legal’s.
Now with some development properties being worth 50% less than the sale price, this being in negative equity what happens then.(AN EMBARGO ON A WORTHLESS ASSET ?)
Now obtaining Judgement will have cost a considerable amount and many years of paying interest.
Some perhaps will be O.K with developments in good areas with developers in a financially stable position, what about the majority that are not ?.
However as I have said in the past I would only be happy when the money is in my bank .
Think I will go for the embargo on the Banks 😉Just Frank 8)
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Frank
i still don’t think you’ve grasped the point of embargo yet. The whole point of it is, protection against a company that is not in a stable position. In other words, you stake a claim on an asset before it’s sold to pay debts.
A decent lawyer won’t secure you an embargo on a worthless asset!!!, and would have told you that, a long while ago?
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Goodstich44
I am fully aware of what an embargo on an assett is.
I am fully aware of what a bank guarantee is supposed to be.
I am fully aware that when plans are approved licences issued that that should mean you have a legal property.
A good solicitor would have told you that a long time ago. ?
Now if you want to enter the real world you may understand that the corrupt system will show that everything may not be so black and white.
Some of course will have a perfectly good embargo on a tangible valued asset however all I say is tread with caution.(as they all wont)
I am not posting to agree or disagree with you or anyone elses version of what the embargos relates to on the forum and I have taken advice a longggggg time ago.
Now you want to pick at my solicitor then you carry on” BUT THEY AND ME SAYS IT AS IT IS” SPADES A SPADES . 😉Just Frank 8)
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Goodstich44 . or should I say trigger. 😈
I have put forward valid postings regarding embargos and B.Gs.
You asked on this very thread that could we concentrate on this and not drift off course
You dont have to agree with the information I have. IF NOT THEN REPLY IN A RESPONSIBLE MANNER WITH YOUR OWN VIEWS.
Believe it or not some of us do post with the view that we may not always be right but it is often based on information we have and we are willing to share.
If just for once we could have you posting something positive, which in someway would be of HELP OTHERS( there are others with problems you know : 😯 ) and those seeking advice instead your Monty Python comments that may just proves to devalue the forum.
Now I dont know what your problem is and fully understand that I am not on your approval list but your constant digs just brings one to reply in a similar vain which is useless to all.
Now I ask you refrain from this course directed at me and my solicitors then none of us will fall out and then then waste the time of the editor,censoring postings.
Hopefully you will draw a line under this posting and we can both move on.Just Frank 8)
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Have a laugh then!
Our dodgy developer tried to scare us into paying him money for an illegal electricity supply by threatening to have an embarga put on our property.
Yep, that same illegal property that is worth diddly squat now that we have found out is was built without permissions on rural land!
We cant sell it, so why threaten it? May be it was just a bluff! Didn’t work though because we didn’t pay 🙄
Goodness knows if he ever tried it, we were told that what he was attempting was illegal, however that same lawyer told us to pay him the money in the end. We know who that lawyer ended up working for and it wasn’t us!
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fran
good for you, for not getting shafted on that one. It’s quite a shock isn’t it, when you realise someone you have relied on to put you right, is no better, or even worse than the people you are up against!!
As you say, that’s very much a threatening tactic, full of bull**it, to frighten you in to doing the wrong thing. Nothing’s to low for these people is it.
We started with dodgy, agent recomended lawyers in England, were then transfered to dodgy lawyers in Spain, and only when those lawyers advised us to complete with no LFO, no BG, and at least one serious breach of contract, did alarm bells start ringing. When i said to our current lawyers ”are you trying to tell me, i have have been set up by the UK agents, UK lawyers, Spanish lawyers, and the developer”……..he said ”err yes, that’s about it”
As it turns out, it looks like the UK agents were also screwed by their chosen developer. What chance we did we stand with that lot??
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Hi
Think I may have mentioned the situation regarding unpaid community fees.
Now how long is it going to be before these companies carrying out these works who are owed lots of dosh start taking court action and placing embargos on properties.
Someone is going to pay somewhere as there aint no free lunch.
Some developers are also trying to claim back dated interest if they win there case as well as these fees so embargos perhaps will be both ways.
I have a dear friend who is refusing to pay his fees as the development isnt finshed and its taken me a long time to get him to realize that its the managment company he owes and not the developer he paid his money too.
NOT MANY WINNERS ME THINKS 😯Just Frank 8)
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Just as a post script. When we realised that our electricity supply was illegal, we contacted the electricity company and offered to pay them the money for the years consumption direct. (we didn’t want the dodgy developer getting their hands on any more of our money).
They were very good about our predicament, said they would investigate the supply and at the end of the day, said that they would not take the money from us as we had not committed the fraud. (I have it in writing from their main local office). Especially as we hadn’t compounded the problem by paying our dodgy developer/neighbour what they had asked.
We haven’t heard any results yet from their further investigation, however it is immaterial what the outcome is. Until our property is made legal or regularised we cant get an LFO and therefore a contract with them.
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