July 17, 2013 at 8:16 am #57690
The Spanish Govt. has approved an increase of 3.2pc in electricity costs for households taking effect in August, principally via a 6.5pc increase in the fixed toll (called the peaje eléctrico).
They aim to reduced the electricity deficit of €26 billion by €4.5 billion, and are looking to households to shoulder €900 million of the cost.
Bad news for second-home owners
Along with the increase in electricity bills, taking effect at the start of August, the Govt. has also announced plans to move towards a a fixed electricity tariff that will raise the cost of electricity for holiday-homes and second-homes.
Under the present tariff, electricity bills are made up of 30pc fixed fees, and 70pc based on consumption. The plan is to move towards a 50pc fixed tariff that will increase electricity bills for properties with low consumption, like holiday-homes that are only partially occupied during the year.
Another smart move by this Government to discourage foreigners from buying holiday-homes in Spain 😯 Who needs those guiris with their money anyway.
Surely this will also make the deficit worse? Heavy users will be subsidised by light users, which will encourage the waste of electricity, and bugger the environment.
Household electricity bills went up by 63pc between 2006 and 2011, according to reports in the Spanish press.
July 17, 2013 at 9:18 am #117646
Mark, You have lived in Spain for long enough as to how the Country works.
July 17, 2013 at 12:10 pm #117647GarySFBCNParticipant
How much will this cost the typical second-home owner?
I agree it is stupid policy.
July 17, 2013 at 2:31 pm #117652
Spain is consistent is coming out with stupid policies in all aspects/sector of life. So, why should this be not be
a stupid one.
July 21, 2013 at 11:51 am #117684
I guess that the only people who won’t be affected are the ones who only have solar power. It is starting to look like a better investment now. 😉
July 23, 2013 at 2:49 pm #117693
I think solar power will be the only solution. Low users are already stitched up with the standing charge. Maybe change the fridge for a gas one and you can run the rest TV DVD player lap top lighting on quite a small panel -an inverter and a storage battery.Ideally if you have space design it to enable you to tell Endessa and Iberdrola to get lost.Much easier if you live in the south or in Canarias where you have enough sunshine not to worry Gas prices will rise but a least its bottled and you only pay for what you use. I noticed in Maplins yesterday for £4.99 a solar shower kit which was a black polystyrene bag with fittings that you leave in sun 3 hrs then ready for use ! Bit crude but sure improved versions would be very practical ! I am not sure exactly how the extra charge for low users will work -this is confusing -I already pay the full potencia charge throughoutb the year . I was not aware that perhaps some users have been getting away with being charged this for part of the year up till now ? What is the 50% fixed tarrif ? Is it a unit charge that includes the potencia charge -if so that would be cheaper for low users.Does it mean the dual tariff for day and night will be consolidated into a single tarrif -that is bad news if so.Muy informacion por favor. In UK we have been going the otherway this year -no standing charge tarrifs are hard to find . My bill with EON would have virtually doubled but got a no standing charge tariff with Ebico that works with SSE that is very good for me being away from UK winter months -as long as it lasts.
July 23, 2013 at 9:53 pm #117695
I updated my reply as think we do not have full informacion yet as to what this really means !
July 24, 2013 at 9:21 pm #117706
And now they are going to raise the tariff on renewable energy at home. Madness. 😯
July 24, 2013 at 10:04 pm #117707
Interesting Mark ! Obviously a desperate Government with a massive deficit trying to balance its books. This electricity deficit wherever it comes from must be due to falling revenues because of un -occupied properties. They do not seem to get rthe message that they are shooting themselves in the foot. Is there nobody in the Spanish intelligentsia that cannot get hold of these stupid bureaucrats and politicians and give them a good tongue lashing ! But seriously once again I do not understand what this new ‘decree’ entails -If I were to import a solar powered ‘shed light ‘ to light my living room dimly in the evenings -indeed I am looking for a stronger one ! -but never mind- do I have to ‘register’ for the tax or only if I sack Iberdola and tell them to stuff their monthly ‘potencia’ charge Indeed this monstrosity of an ‘erection’ charge is an imposition in itself particularly now I notice their subsidiary Scottish Power in UK has now introduced a NO STANDING CHARGE Tariff too as well as SSE. I read you have to pay a fine and you can be ‘cut off from the grid ‘ well what does this mean -if you are solar powered you don’t use the Grid for heavens sake -I know in UK you can have installations that supply power to the National Grid for which you get paid . Do they have this in Spain and this is what its all about. However I find it bizarre that if you do without an electricity supply they can charge you to use THE SUN – They will next charge us for using bottled water and having a pee in the garden maybe ?
July 25, 2013 at 7:44 am #117708
Ptr, it’s crazy I know. We need more detail on how it will work. I’ll have to start a new thread because this issue deserves its own one.
July 25, 2013 at 8:59 am #117709
I noticed this at the bottom of the Govt. press release on the new Energy bill:
Los consumidores más vulnerables podrán continuar acogiéndose al descuento del bono social. Por otra parte, la reforma también reforzará la lucha contra el fraude, se modificará la estructura de peajes reduciendo el coste sobre el consumidor medio y penalizando las segundas viviendas y las viviendas vacías.
So there you have it: penalising holiday homes is an explicit objective. 😯 😯 😯
Doesn’t Spain have a big glut of empty holiday homes to sell? Isn’t that a more serious problem today? Talk about stupid.
July 28, 2013 at 11:19 am #117731
I really do not understand how the new tariff will work for normal use. I pay the ‘potencia charge throughout the year. So six months of the year this represents not 50% but 100% of the amount I am charged. For the other six months it must be 80% of my bill -so my unit charge is exhorbitant. But I am thinking if the ‘fixed’ element is 50% I ought to get a refund -but I will believe it when I see it. Posted on this thread as not about ‘solar’.
July 28, 2013 at 8:14 pm #117735
Ptr, I think they are just going to raise the fixed rate so that the average bill is 50% fixed. In your case it will still be 100% fixed, just more expensive 🙁
September 29, 2013 at 6:16 pm #118312
The increases are not so much though as currently highlighted by the labour Party Conference in UK. However in England we have many different companies wheras in Spain only two. The Spanish Government now reviewing the cost of natural gas that is sold in bottles. The use of these has been a fantastic way to save in power costs for cooking and heating as a 10.2 ltr bottle costs only 16 euros refilled as is regulated by the Government. This is a fraction of UK cost and hopefully will not be increased greatly or be deregulated !
September 29, 2013 at 6:23 pm #118313
When it comes to utilities this country is Rip Off Spain and there’s nothing else to say about it. 🙁
September 29, 2013 at 11:44 pm #118120
For a property professional surely you shoot yourself in the foot in not combatting negative posts .How do you survive ?!!!!!!
September 30, 2013 at 8:37 am #118326
Seems like you hate to hear the truth about anything you disagree with others about Spain, even from Mark. Do you think he should deliberately mislead people as a property agent as you say, too much of that went on years ago much to people’s regret? 🙄
September 30, 2013 at 7:32 pm #118341
I’d like to point out that I’m not an agent. I have some property advertising here, I showcase some homes, and I put house-hunters in touch with agents, lawyers, etc., but I never get involved in a sale. My value comes from being a reliable source of information, warts and all.
September 30, 2013 at 11:05 pm #118349
You certainly gets some warts on here Mark -some that are tourists on high horses with delusions of grandeur who couldn’t afford a bedsit in a Benidorm back street block sitting all day on computers sniping at any thing they can dig out of newspaper bins without giving a thought to it . If the are problems we must try to resolve them but so often its the Spanish themselves that have to do it -if its Government taxes there is not much we can do – indeed we can only for now adapt to things as they are . You can still live in Spain quite reasonably. if you want to.go there to live like Brits and litter it with fish and chip shops rowdy union jack pubs with cottage pies and brown ale and colonise it -maybe Spain is doing itself a favour if turns round and says this is Spain -treat it with respect not just somewhere to come and abuse and use its people on cheap labour because those days are gone .Indeed I find it a challenge and sometimes hard going understanding a dialect as well as learning a language but if you do it you make progress. Electricity bills currently reflect the correction in the state balance sheet of the -‘electricity deficit’ . Spain used to be very cheap-its not now and if that’s all you wanted it for its good that some now stay at home
October 1, 2013 at 8:22 am #118351
@Ptr What a sad man you are, making outlandish statements that people ‘couldn’t afford a bedsit in a Benidorm back street’, (you make things up as you go along) yet you admit you walk to the beach in the Canaries to collect plastic bottles of sea water to flush your loo (desperate times) have a bath or shower at certain times to save money, advising people to make a solar shower out of a plastic bag, (whatever next? 😯 ) desperately trying to live as cheaply as possible, what a life you lead? 😆
Then you pretend the Atlantic sea is always warm around the Canaries for swimming, trying to convince katy of that, why, are you stuck with your little ‘pied a terre’ there hoping to sell one day? 🙄
Then you have the cheek to call Mark a masochist for telling the truth 😡
Grow up, and act your pensionable age
October 1, 2013 at 10:48 am #118353
Luvly jubbly Angie . I am enjoying it . You can get a plastic bag solar shower from Maplins for £6 if it really helps you. But a little ingenuity you could make a very good one very simply with two 8 litre water bottles -you know them of the Evian type-fittings very reasonably purchased to adapt Use one on a sunny day in England too.. I do hope you both are able to travel more -maybe visit the Canaries in the winter and have a lovely time.The sunshine much more reliable than in Spain as its Africa. Sometimes there are divergencies between countries and temporary difficulties because of as we know the long over extended property boom in Spain -that was fuelled from outside let there be no mistake. Eventually realities prevail (I write very quickly and sometimes use the odd word loosely but I changed the word(as another one recently) referring to Mark and expressed what I meant in a better way} Must get off to work now -saving up to get a tooth implant done -they are done very well in Canaries and a bit cheaper than UK and the salt water from sea bathing -does wonder for healing your skin !
October 1, 2013 at 10:54 am #118354
I am off to El Caribe for my winter sun. Where it is really tropical and you actually CAN swim in the sea and the sand is pure white. Seen most of the Canary Isles, don’t like them. Mostly purpose built concrete pueblos with no soul.
October 1, 2013 at 3:27 pm #118355
‘Luvly Jubbly’ blooming heck that dates you 😆 btw why do I need help from a £6 bag from Maplins for solar water, we have it with a properly installed system and super boiler? 😆
Out of interest when you have house guests visit your Canary Island dream, do you ask them to take plastic bottles to fill up from the sea each time they want to use the facilities? It conjures up an image of camping a bit, maybe rougher 🙄
Africa is Africa, Canaries are islands you know, somewhat detached and Northerly to be called African, and for guaranteed hot sunny weather you need to go further South to Gambia and Senegal, been there, not a drop of rain in 2 weeks during UK Winter time. 8)
As katy says, tropical is where you can swim all year round 8) not visited El Caribe katy, is that P. Rico? 🙄
October 1, 2013 at 7:10 pm #118356
Just generalising 😀 We are going to Antigua. I love Puerto Rico. Just like old Spain but with American service and quality. Problem is there is no direct flight from the UK.
October 1, 2013 at 8:12 pm #118357
Well I think readers will be able to draw their own conclusions from these threads but I thought that the writer who said that their bills had been cut in half using the off peak electricity in the dual tarrif- its good to get information from people who actually have property in Spain not people in UK who are saboteurs:. something I have been writing about from time to time for at least two years..I have to say I was put on a tarrif by Endesa originally that was the most expensive thinking I knew nothing speaking then not a lot of Spanish so I changed company to Iberdrola on principle and learned about the alternative tarrifs. The TUR single or dual tarrif is set by the Government so it is sure to be the same with either company and that is probably all you need. It is possible if you are a very high user that there may be an offer in the ‘liberalised tarrifs both these companies have that for competitive reasons vary-and might be competitive-just a thought. Yes a solar shower I am sure the Hacienda cannot charge you for using -unlike solar- electric panels . Yes you can have water sports in the garden or on your patio ‘tax free’ at the end of a hot day !
October 1, 2013 at 9:18 pm #118358
Who had their bills cut in half? Why are you scrimping on normal living if it’s so economical? The Government fixes the rate in Spain and there is very little competition. I understand you have to be on a high potencia to be on cheap tariff.
I may not live there now but I can assure you that I am paying much less in the UK. Over 2 years ago the electricity bills in Spain averaged €90-€120 pm. I now pay in the UK (more than 2 years later) £45pm by direct debit (similar size house, more appliances). I am actually around £74 in credit right now!
Have edited this as I got it wrong 😳 Only £45.
October 2, 2013 at 7:51 am #118359
@Ptr you live in UK are you a ‘saboteur’ 😆 you’re a sensationalist making things up again includes regarding the original article in the media which you still don’t understand, there’s more to it isn’t there?
As katy asks ‘who had their bills cut in half?’, in UK yes I can understand that question, we did, but in Spain doubtful 🙄
October 2, 2013 at 12:14 pm #118360
I know Angie that you and Katy only live in the UK and travel occasionally as tourists. I am only really interested in what we can do in Spain to get the best out of our experience there. I do refer to the post by decoco of 1.16pm of 30th Sept on the other current thread Why is electricity so Costly in which the writer mentions their bill in Spain was CUT IN HALF. I cannot understand the intention of some people to post NEGATIVELY about Spain and denying the fact that many people probably overpay unnecessarily..I hope that reading these posts will be helpful to people who have problems with power costs in Spain .
October 2, 2013 at 12:32 pm #118361
You see it as posting negatively. I (and some others) see it as being honest, putting the record straight. I bet there are many who wished these sort of forums were around a decade ago.
October 2, 2013 at 7:13 pm #118363
Agree with katy, and, if this website especially had been around all those years ago there would have been a lot less heartache for many, and we personally may not have had the problems with Ocean. It was thanks to the Sunday Times for exposing them, and Mark’s column known as Spanish Property Doctor that had people take notice of potential pitfalls.
Of course hindsight is a wonderful thing and it took years for many of the problems to come out of the woodwork which hopefully are now well documented. 😉 This website has also helped with property matters in other countries which adopted the Spanish boom culture, mainly because some of the rogue agents of the time moved their operations elsewhere.
I also believe certain agents in Spain are now better for it, some post here, more transparent and to be recommended, couldn’t have said that a few years back 😉
October 4, 2013 at 7:14 pm #118389MelosineParticipant
Just noticed the standing charge on my latest bill was increased from €88 to €100 !!! 😯
So think some thermal onesis are needed for when the winter comes……
October 5, 2013 at 1:42 pm #118390
I am amazed Melosine ! Are you on a private caravan site run by the Party Popular-I mean how can your standing charge be this amount. This is fixed relative to the POTENCIA rating . Often its about 5KW and the charge around 16 euros a month for a modest property. Older ones its sometimes half of that and 10KW or more probably costs a bit more but nothing like that. .Your bills are high I know you previously explained your useage pattern and I think somehow you have to think how you can economise without making things miserable for your lifestyle.
October 5, 2013 at 4:37 pm #118391MelosineParticipant
Seems we now have a potencia 13.8…..used to be 13.2 ….. So even that has increased.!!!
Had to have a potencia this high because together with all the other normal electric appliances ( plus jacuzzi, pop up irrigation system) we have ducted aircon/ heating which, because of the size of the units, is very efficient so only really need to use for short periods of time in July/August and Jan/Feb. Unless of course family are here when it is on constantly together with electric hair straighteners,curlers and dryers etc. you name it …it is switched on…..
With a mere 5.5 the fuses would be tripping constantly.
However when we compare bills with friends who use oil, gas and wood as well the overall costs are comparable and at least electricity is a clean fuel.
Fear not ptr, sans visitors, the remaining bills are at least € 100 less.
October 6, 2013 at 12:13 pm #118392
This ‘potencia’ basis for calculating the standing charge for electricity is quite different from the UK basis. Is our method more usual in other countries I wonder or is the Spanish ? Obviously checking the ‘potencia’ before you buy a property is important and to be sure its going to be sufficient for your needs and the rating not likely to be increased for example if you extend a property .I am reading this week-end that UK charges are to be increased 5-10% shortly – some suppliers including Scottish Power a subsidiary of Iberdrola are offering 3 year fixed rates some 4 years maybe to upstage Mr Milibands ‘price freeze’ -if he gets the chance. . Usually though these cost more than current prices and what you gain in the 2nd or 3rd year is diluted by what you lose in the first at least .Scottish Power do a zero standing charge rate which is useful if you have a property in both countries and as a low user in UK as might be the case if you spend the winter away in Spain or its islands
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