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Spanish intelligence probe ‘debt attacks’ blamed for sabotaging country’s economy
Spain’s intelligence services are investigating the role of investors and media in debt market turbulence over the last few weeks.
The National Intelligence Centre (CNI) is looking into ‘speculative attacks’ on Spain following the Greek debt crisis, according to El Pais newspaper.
‘The (CNI’s) Economic Intelligence division… is investigating whether
investors’ attacks and the aggressiveness of some Anglo-Saxon media are driven by market forces and challenges facing the Spanish economy, or whether there is something more behind this campaign,’ the newspaper added.‘None of what is happening in the world, including the editorials of foreign newspapers, is coincidental or innocent,’ Blanco said.
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I really don’t care for Rubalcaba. He was the one who precipitously took away the European vote in local elections (promised by Felipe Gonzalez) in 1995.
All this talk these days of ‘discovering cunning ETA plots’ is just the old routine of ‘afearing the population then protecting them’ that’s been played to death elsewhere.
Furthermore – he’s the bozo who took away our residence cards. -
I really don’t care for Rubalcaba. He was the one who precipitously took away the European vote in local elections (promised by Felipe Gonzalez) in 1995.
All this talk these days of ‘discovering cunning ETA plots’ is just the old routine of ‘afearing the population then protecting them’ that’s been played to death elsewhere.
Furthermore – he’s the bozo who took away our residence cards. -
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To adiep:
The Inquisition was not an Spanish invent,…in fact that institution arrive to Spain when Isabel ( Castilla) and Ferdinand (Aragon) married (at the very end of the (XV century), centuries before that time the Inqusisition was working very well in Europe against the Temple Knights, the Cataros,…and so on.
Monty Python are fun,…but if you want to know facts you should read a little…in fact the Spanish Inquisition is only a topic,…part of the black legend,…but the number of victims compared with another European religion persecutions are irrelevant (read about San Bartolome night or the British religious persecutions).
In fact you can not name any famous Spanish victim from the Spanish inquisition but I can name Thomas Moro (Am I living an utopia?).
Regards. -
To adiep:
The Inquisition was not an Spanish invent,…in fact that institution arrive to Spain when Isabel ( Castilla) and Ferdinand (Aragon) married (at the very end of the (XV century), centuries before that time the Inqusisition was working very well in Europe against the Temple Knights, the Cataros,…and so on.
Monty Python are fun,…but if you want to know facts you should read a little…in fact the Spanish Inquisition is only a topic,…part of the black legend,…but the number of victims compared with another European religion persecutions are irrelevant (read about San Bartolome night or the British religious persecutions).
In fact you can not name any famous Spanish victim from the Spanish inquisition but I can name Thomas Moro (Am I living an utopia?).
Regards. -
Although I agree that the actual socialist government is a joke,. The (CNI´s) Economic Intelligence division should be investigating any possibility (but to make it official it’s surely silly) …let’s go with a little of early European history:
• The pound suffer very aggressive attacks from the market (Soros), the UK treasure tried to support the pound,… finally give up after spending thousands of millions pounds and the pound left the European currency system, the first step to the Euro currency…that step never had been recovered.
• The German Central bank didn’t give any help neither the France Central bank, perhaps because Mrs. Margaret Thatcher made as much as she could to disturb the German unification …and Mrs. Thatcher became very angry and continued a very aggressive anti European politic…from that time the UK became dependent to the USA politic…until now.
Could be that the market made all this moves just to earn money,…surely Soros became a very wealthy man,…but the politics consequences has been enormous.
Regards. -
Although I agree that the actual socialist government is a joke,. The (CNI´s) Economic Intelligence division should be investigating any possibility (but to make it official it’s surely silly) …let’s go with a little of early European history:
• The pound suffer very aggressive attacks from the market (Soros), the UK treasure tried to support the pound,… finally give up after spending thousands of millions pounds and the pound left the European currency system, the first step to the Euro currency…that step never had been recovered.
• The German Central bank didn’t give any help neither the France Central bank, perhaps because Mrs. Margaret Thatcher made as much as she could to disturb the German unification …and Mrs. Thatcher became very angry and continued a very aggressive anti European politic…from that time the UK became dependent to the USA politic…until now.
Could be that the market made all this moves just to earn money,…surely Soros became a very wealthy man,…but the politics consequences has been enormous.
Regards. -
Hi tree
as far as I can remember Mrs Thatcher was no longer the Prime Minister of the UK when Britain withdrew from the ERM under attack by George Sorros et al. I seem to recall that when in power she reprimanded the then shadow Chancellor of the Exchequer, Nigel Lawson, for unofficially shadowing the ERM.
Her view of the ERM and its successor the euro was that it was a “half baked” project.
Although I was an advocate of joining the euro I have since changed my mind and am now pleased we never joined. The euro is a fine project when the world economy is benign. However, in todays climate Greece and Spain are and will continue to suffer unneccessarily. This is because the monetary policies of the ECB are geared up to the economic conditions in Germany and France, which are quite different to those in Greece and Spain.
Richard
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Hi tree
as far as I can remember Mrs Thatcher was no longer the Prime Minister of the UK when Britain withdrew from the ERM under attack by George Sorros et al. I seem to recall that when in power she reprimanded the then shadow Chancellor of the Exchequer, Nigel Lawson, for unofficially shadowing the ERM.
Her view of the ERM and its successor the euro was that it was a “half baked” project.
Although I was an advocate of joining the euro I have since changed my mind and am now pleased we never joined. The euro is a fine project when the world economy is benign. However, in todays climate Greece and Spain are and will continue to suffer unneccessarily. This is because the monetary policies of the ECB are geared up to the economic conditions in Germany and France, which are quite different to those in Greece and Spain.
Richard
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To rt21:
Thanks to correct me.
I believe that the Euro project is a good one. It have been proved quite successful, imagine what presions should be enduring all the Europeans currencies in the worst recession from 1945,…a completely mess. Back to pre 2º world war situation?,…huge devaluations,…huge inflations,…demagogic politics,…Not again.
Spain is suffering more than Germany, but I don’t believe that the FED make the monetary political thinking in Florida or California. Neither the UK treasure thinking in Wales,…or the BCE thinking only in Germany.
I think that the way to look at the crisis shouldn’t be a national point eye,…but a sectorial point,…So Spain is not in crisis, some sectors are in crisis, but others are managing quite well the situation,…the thing is that many important sectors of the Spanish economy are in crisis…Well, let’s try to make changes to the economic structure of the country…
I know that the low interest rates that Germany needed in 2005 are part of the nowadays problem,…in fact was Germany who fault the condition of a maximum of 3% deficit in that time,…but the benefits of a single currency are bigger than the problems.
In my opinion the answer is more Europe not less Europe,…the train will not stop,…and UK should be taken that train before it take too much speed.
Regards. -
To rt21:
Thanks to correct me.
I believe that the Euro project is a good one. It have been proved quite successful, imagine what presions should be enduring all the Europeans currencies in the worst recession from 1945,…a completely mess. Back to pre 2º world war situation?,…huge devaluations,…huge inflations,…demagogic politics,…Not again.
Spain is suffering more than Germany, but I don’t believe that the FED make the monetary political thinking in Florida or California. Neither the UK treasure thinking in Wales,…or the BCE thinking only in Germany.
I think that the way to look at the crisis shouldn’t be a national point eye,…but a sectorial point,…So Spain is not in crisis, some sectors are in crisis, but others are managing quite well the situation,…the thing is that many important sectors of the Spanish economy are in crisis…Well, let’s try to make changes to the economic structure of the country…
I know that the low interest rates that Germany needed in 2005 are part of the nowadays problem,…in fact was Germany who fault the condition of a maximum of 3% deficit in that time,…but the benefits of a single currency are bigger than the problems.
In my opinion the answer is more Europe not less Europe,…the train will not stop,…and UK should be taken that train before it take too much speed.
Regards. -
Hi Tree
I think that on the face of it Spain does appear to have benefitted from being a member of eurozone. As a member it has certainly received cheap loans and the economy has being very buoyant
However, over this period the world economy has been benign and no one appears to have noticed that the cheap money has made Spanish industry very uncompetitive compared to Germany.
The world economy has now taken a turn for the worse. The construction industry which was driving the Spanish economy has collapsed. Unemployment has rocketed and Spain is now a net importer of goods. Its industry is very uncompetitive.
The big difficulty for the eurozone is that unlike America and the UK, monetary policy and fiscal policy are un co-odinated. The ECB have been following fairly prudent monetary policies which have helped the euro remain strong. However, the strong euro is not what an uncompetitive economy like Spain wants. As it can’t devalue the currency the only way that it can avoid huge balance of payments and fiscal deficits is to slash wages and public spending. This is what people refer to as an internal devaluation.
Is this going to happen ? I don’t think so. The Spanish Prime Minister talks about finding consensus and helping the unemployed. Very noble ideals but not what you want when you are in trouble.
The euro now acts as a straight jacket on Spain’s economy
Richard
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Hi Tree
I think that on the face of it Spain does appear to have benefitted from being a member of eurozone. As a member it has certainly received cheap loans and the economy has being very buoyant
However, over this period the world economy has been benign and no one appears to have noticed that the cheap money has made Spanish industry very uncompetitive compared to Germany.
The world economy has now taken a turn for the worse. The construction industry which was driving the Spanish economy has collapsed. Unemployment has rocketed and Spain is now a net importer of goods. Its industry is very uncompetitive.
The big difficulty for the eurozone is that unlike America and the UK, monetary policy and fiscal policy are un co-odinated. The ECB have been following fairly prudent monetary policies which have helped the euro remain strong. However, the strong euro is not what an uncompetitive economy like Spain wants. As it can’t devalue the currency the only way that it can avoid huge balance of payments and fiscal deficits is to slash wages and public spending. This is what people refer to as an internal devaluation.
Is this going to happen ? I don’t think so. The Spanish Prime Minister talks about finding consensus and helping the unemployed. Very noble ideals but not what you want when you are in trouble.
The euro now acts as a straight jacket on Spain’s economy
Richard
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Hi rt21:
I agree with some of your points, the situation is bad,…but I don’t believe that the situation could be better if we could make a competitive devaluation…It is the easy way but not a long time solution,…and can provocateur an inflationary spiral.
I don’t believe completely in the “productive rates”,…I should study how they are build to make a properly critic (but I don’t have so much time),…I suppose that the construction sector have a low productivity (but that really means nothing new),…Spain in the past years have managed to preserve or to increase the % of international market exports for GOODS (not services) Data October 2009:
Spanish exports world quota: 1,83% . To have a number to compare: France: 3,99%.
In fact in the last ten years Spain is the only big European country that have preserved his world market quote for goods,…so perhaps the productivity rates are not good enough to explain everything,…Is a sectorial crisis as I have said.
(http://app.igape.es/prensa/modif_ver_pdf.asp?pdf=KKQQ-3326)Although in the past years that increase of goods exports have came with a superior increase of importations.…A problem that with the crisis is being corrected. (http://aduanas.camaras.org/)
…as much as the families are saving a big percentage of their money to make healthier their economic balances. 3 Nov 2009: The families are saving 18,9% of their rent.
(3 Nov 2009 … El ahorro de las familias habrá aumentado casi un 50% al cerrar el año 2009, hasta una tasa del 18,9% de la renta disponible http://www.hosteltur.com/noticias/64319_tasa-ahorro-familias-espanolas-aumenta-casi-50-2009.html)
The picture is grey,…a dark grey if you want, but not black,…The not productive sectors should die,…and not to make them survive with a devaluation Oxygen. The Spanish problem is that (as UK or Ireland) have eat too much in the nearly past years and now we need to make a bad digestion….not more not less,…We didn’t had hidden sub prime bonuses, neither huge deficits, just an international financial crisis that take as by surprise and unprepared. But did we have any choose?(that question go for UK or Ireland as well):
Ok, perhaps the Spanish government (although the construction depend of the local authorities) could in an Stalinist way to reduce the property market…so less immigration,…higher prices,…people protesting for the property prices,…Maybe an increase in “productivity rates ”,…I don’t know,…but it is not an easy decision to take,…as much as they didn’t knew the future.
Any way I am optimist although is raining,…and this year is being a quite cold year. (7 times of snow in Madrid).
Regards. -
Hi rt21:
I agree with some of your points, the situation is bad,…but I don’t believe that the situation could be better if we could make a competitive devaluation…It is the easy way but not a long time solution,…and can provocateur an inflationary spiral.
I don’t believe completely in the “productive rates”,…I should study how they are build to make a properly critic (but I don’t have so much time),…I suppose that the construction sector have a low productivity (but that really means nothing new),…Spain in the past years have managed to preserve or to increase the % of international market exports for GOODS (not services) Data October 2009:
Spanish exports world quota: 1,83% . To have a number to compare: France: 3,99%.
In fact in the last ten years Spain is the only big European country that have preserved his world market quote for goods,…so perhaps the productivity rates are not good enough to explain everything,…Is a sectorial crisis as I have said.
(http://app.igape.es/prensa/modif_ver_pdf.asp?pdf=KKQQ-3326)Although in the past years that increase of goods exports have came with a superior increase of importations.…A problem that with the crisis is being corrected. (http://aduanas.camaras.org/)
…as much as the families are saving a big percentage of their money to make healthier their economic balances. 3 Nov 2009: The families are saving 18,9% of their rent.
(3 Nov 2009 … El ahorro de las familias habrá aumentado casi un 50% al cerrar el año 2009, hasta una tasa del 18,9% de la renta disponible http://www.hosteltur.com/noticias/64319_tasa-ahorro-familias-espanolas-aumenta-casi-50-2009.html)
The picture is grey,…a dark grey if you want, but not black,…The not productive sectors should die,…and not to make them survive with a devaluation Oxygen. The Spanish problem is that (as UK or Ireland) have eat too much in the nearly past years and now we need to make a bad digestion….not more not less,…We didn’t had hidden sub prime bonuses, neither huge deficits, just an international financial crisis that take as by surprise and unprepared. But did we have any choose?(that question go for UK or Ireland as well):
Ok, perhaps the Spanish government (although the construction depend of the local authorities) could in an Stalinist way to reduce the property market…so less immigration,…higher prices,…people protesting for the property prices,…Maybe an increase in “productivity rates ”,…I don’t know,…but it is not an easy decision to take,…as much as they didn’t knew the future.
Any way I am optimist although is raining,…and this year is being a quite cold year. (7 times of snow in Madrid).
Regards. -
@tree wrote:
To adiep:
The Inquisition was not an Spanish invent,…in fact that institution arrive to Spain when Isabel ( Castilla) and Ferdinand (Aragon) married (at the very end of the (XV century), centuries before that time the Inqusisition was working very well in Europe against the Temple Knights, the Cataros,…and so on.
Monty Python are fun,…but if you want to know facts you should read a little…in fact the Spanish Inquisition is only a topic,…part of the black legend,…but the number of victims compared with another European religion persecutions are irrelevant (read about San Bartolome night or the British religious persecutions).
In fact you can not name any famous Spanish victim from the Spanish inquisition but I can name Thomas Moro (Am I living an utopia?).
Regards.Tree,
Our chief weapon is surprise! …Surprise and fear…fear and surprise…. Our two weapons are fear and surprise…and ruthless efficiency…. Our three weapons are fear, and surprise, and ruthless efficiency…and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope…. Our four…
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@tree wrote:
To adiep:
The Inquisition was not an Spanish invent,…in fact that institution arrive to Spain when Isabel ( Castilla) and Ferdinand (Aragon) married (at the very end of the (XV century), centuries before that time the Inqusisition was working very well in Europe against the Temple Knights, the Cataros,…and so on.
Monty Python are fun,…but if you want to know facts you should read a little…in fact the Spanish Inquisition is only a topic,…part of the black legend,…but the number of victims compared with another European religion persecutions are irrelevant (read about San Bartolome night or the British religious persecutions).
In fact you can not name any famous Spanish victim from the Spanish inquisition but I can name Thomas Moro (Am I living an utopia?).
Regards.Tree,
Our chief weapon is surprise! …Surprise and fear…fear and surprise…. Our two weapons are fear and surprise…and ruthless efficiency…. Our three weapons are fear, and surprise, and ruthless efficiency…and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope…. Our four…
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Hi Tree
I thought you might find the article on the following link of interest
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/18/world/europe/18spain.html?ref=world
I wish my employment contract had redundancy terms whereby my employer paid me 45 days per year worked.
Richard
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Rt21:
Thanks a lot, for your interest in the real Spanish situation,…the NYT article is a good one,…I know Spain needs a change,…many of the overprotected worker laws are from Franco times,…Spain should have changed them,…don’t think that we don’t critic the actual socialist government, in fact nowadays the right party is ahead in the intension of vote.A funny link of critics:
http://www.superzp.com/With the exception of “El Pais” and “La Vanguardia” all the others Spanish news are against ZP: “El Mundo”, “ABC”, “Expansion”, “La Razon”,… and my favorite one “Intereconomia” (It have a Tv canal and a Radio canal, it is great.)
Regards -
@rt21 wrote:
Hi Tree
I thought you might find the article on the following link of interest
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/18/world/europe/18spain.html?ref=world
I wish my employment contract had redundancy terms whereby my employer paid me 45 days per year worked.
Richard
Hi Richard, trust me you don’t.
no-one wants to take people on contrato fijos because of the cost if you have to fire them. So they take people on short term contracts. because they are on short term contracts, they don’t invest in them (training, education,etc..) as they will not renue the contracts. So what happens? you have a 2 tier system consisting of the un-firable and the un-hirable. -
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@Fuengi wrote:
@rt21 wrote:
Hi Richard, trust me you don’t.
no-one wants to take people on contrato fijos because of the cost if you have to fire them. So they take people on short term contracts. because they are on short term contracts, they don’t invest in them (training, education,etc..) as they will not renue the contracts. So what happens? you have a 2 tier system consisting of the un-firable and the un-hirable.Fuengi this is so true. That is why we get such poor customer service. In Supermarkets etc. they don’t care as they know they are out. A businessman I know has 2 companies. His staff are trnsfered to the other one after 6 months. I believe it is also very expensive to employ staff too.
I read this in an article in the NY Times
The result was rapid growth combined with significant inflation: between 2000 and 2008, the prices of goods and services produced in Spain rose by 35 percent, compared with a rise of only 10 percent in Germany. Thanks to rising costs, Spanish exports became increasingly uncompetitive, but job growth stayed strong thanks to the housing boom.This has been one of the reasons for the large drop in tourism. The Germans and Dutch etc are canny and they have been going elsewhere. I go regularly to France and Holland to see family and years ago The Hague and Paris seemed so expensive compared with the CDS. They are now considerably cheaper re. supermarkets, white goods etc.
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Have just returned from the CDS and was appalled at the prices we had before that just spent 5 days in Javes. Dont you think that the CDS is as much a case of milking the preverbial gravy train problem is the CDS is full of Nouveau Riche or at least think they are but the Goose that lays the Golden Eggs is now barren
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