[angie]

To all those Spaniards, Portuguese, Greeks, Irish, Italians, Belgians, Cypriots, Dutch, French and whoever else thinks it’s only them with Debt problems, consider this:-

Every working Brit, now owes £79,482 share of the UK’s debt.

The UK’s National Debt crashed through the £1 Trillion barrier.

Add in the Banking Bail-Out etc and this figure is now £2.3 trillion which is 1.5 times the UK’s annual production.

This debt is expected to rise £400 Billion in next 3 years

The UK is already targeting individual’s Savings (through low int rates and high inflation)

QE means Gov’t buy up Gilts fiddling their prices up whilst reducing yields so it pays out less to Pension Funds etc

Talk of a new annual tax on property (not Council Tax)

Gov’t and MPC deliberately inflating it’s way out of debt at the expense of Savers, then homeowners and Pensions. Just enough inflation to hurt Savers but not enough to force people out on the streets.

Property, Stocks/shares, and other markets are in falsely high positions.

UK unemployment is 6.3 million not 2.67 million as we’re told.

The whole thing is a manipulated con targeting the masses whilst their own Cabinet Members, MPC, UK Corporations and Bosses, Bankers, even Charity Bosses are either still paid fortunes and bonuses (inc, for failure) as well as/or stashing their cash in still open off-shore Tax Havens. 😈

Source – Money Week etc

[Anonymous]

This is the biggest reason why the power to handle the financial politics never should be in the hands of politicians “Yes I know that the central banks often are not directly controlled by them but when the politicians destroys the economy there is only one way out according to the rules handed to all central banks around the world and it’s different ways of stimulating the economy. Policies set by BIS and other elite bankers”. In fact there shouldn’t even be something called “financial politics”. When politicians, corporations and even individuals missbehave it’s always the easy way out for the politicans to waste more money “they call it economic stimulus and when politicians speak of stimulus you should be on your guard because it not something positive as it may imply”. They do this by printing more money, lowering interest rates, giving money to certain special interests etc. This will indeed destroy the savings in that fiat currency and it punishes the people that have in fact done the right thing and saved money instead of just loaned and wasted it. The way the whole modern world tackles this problem is to letting the people that missbehaved to get away with it while the common man is hurt. It’s like forcing people to gamble everything they have in a casino. Don’t get me wrong I’m all for people playing it gutsy. The problem is that the common man doesn’t have the knowledge to understand what top dogs are doing at the moment. If you asked them if they would be ok with that the goverment stole their money and handed it over to different corporations they would revolt. The worst part is that whatever system you let “thinksters” get their hands of they will ruin in. Back in the days when currencies was backed by noble metals like gold, silver, copper etc the bastards started diluting it which had the same effect as printing more money.

Austrian economics have the answer to all of this but since politicians can’t play their dirty tricks with their economics it has never caught on.

[logan]

There are two sides to this debate. You either want countries to get themselves out of trouble with austerity and debt reduction or continue government spending thereby producing higher debt yields and a downward debt spiral. There is no third way alternative.
All western democratic governments including the US have now implemented austerity of varying degrees because it’s the only sensible course. The government opposition tries to protest it but in truth they would all do the same thing.

Angie lists the painful results of such a policy and it hurts people. However we all have to pay a price for the mismanagement of governments, central banks and the private sector in the last decade. That’s life I’m afraid, they mess up we pay.
We know what went wrong it’s being fixed slowly and tax havens are no longer that. It is now very difficult to hide money for long and you do it at your peril.
Governments actually don’t really want to encourage saving. It slows down the economy if too many people save and don’t spend.
In fact most social security systems positively discourage people from saving by making most benefits means tested. Even saving for a pension is often a waste of money because you get a far higher rate from the state without private means. Annuities right now are worthless unless you have a pension pot of over a million Sterling.

Ardun’s contention that governments should not run financial policy seems far fetched to me. Who are you going to hand the responsibility to? Bankers, I don’t think so. 😆

[Anonymous]

@logan wrote:

There are two sides to this debate. You either want countries to get themselves out of trouble with austerity and debt reduction or continue government spending thereby producing higher debt yields and a downward debt spiral. There is no third way alternative.
All western democratic governments including the US have now implemented austerity of varying degrees because it’s the only sensible course. The government opposition tries to protest it but in truth they would all do the same thing.

Angie lists the painful results of such a policy and it hurts people. However we all have to pay a price for the mismanagement of governments, central banks and the private sector in the last decade. That’s life I’m afraid, they mess up we pay.
We know what went wrong it’s being fixed slowly and tax havens are no longer that. It is now very difficult to hide money for long and you do it at your peril.
Governments actually don’t really want to encourage saving. It slows down the economy if too many people save and don’t spend.
In fact most social security systems positively discourage people from saving by making most benefits means tested. Even saving for a pension is often a waste of money because you get a far higher rate from the state without private means. Annuities right now are worthless unless you have a pension pot of over a million Sterling.

Ardun’s contention that governments should not run financial policy seems far fetched to me. Who are you going to hand the responsibility to? Bankers, I don’t think so. 😆

My idea is so radical that every politician and banker alive would tremble.

No one should handle it since it totally unnecessary and dangerous. The only thing needed is letting the free markets do their thing and interest rates etc will be set by the markets. Todays macro economists tries to steer the markets which ends up in booms and busts. Money will be backed by gold or other resources and when production in society goes up the prices of everything in society will fall. That is if no more resources that backs the currency is found that is. It’s actually very simple. Look up austrian economics. What would you do if you found out that your gold watch was not actually gold but something else? You would go back to the store and demand a refund. Why can’t we do that with fiat money? Most bankers, politicians and macro economist talk about that this is what is so important to keep the economy going. It should be called theft.

A few examples of what happens when this power is given over to politicans. Eventually it ends up in special interests hands.

1709 Mayer Amschel Rothschild “Let me issue and control a nation’s money and I care not who writes the laws.”

1815 Nathan Mayer Rothschild “I care not what puppet is placed upon the throne of England to rule the Empire on which the sun never sets. The man who controls Britain’s money supply controls the British Empire, and I control the British money supply.”

Logan you will eventually see the truth and I will not hold it against you. I have unkowingly “supported” crony capitalism my whole life until now.

We can’t do anything to fix the situation we are in except letting everyting unfold. It’s what we do afterwards that is important.

[logan]

@Ardun wrote:

1815 Nathan Mayer Rothschild “I care not what puppet is placed upon the throne of England to rule the Empire on which the sun never sets. The man who controls Britain’s money supply controls the British Empire, and I control the British money supply.”

Rothschild was right then. The bond markets and rating agencies now control the way government behaves and in a capitalist market economy that’s the way it should be. Someone other than the electorate has to do it. Voters can only change government every five years or so, long after the damage has been done.

I do share the belief that nothing can be fixed with the current state of affairs. The wreckage needs to be cleared and a new beginning may eventually bring prosperity again but it’s far from certain in my life time.

One method could be debt forgiveness for all the EU peripheral states and then banks recapitalized by the ECB. Afterwards strict budget controls then imposed and monitored effectively. That’s a radical solution that this bunch of EU politicos would not have the courage to enforce.

Perhaps a major war, predictably with Iran may be a catalyst I think that’s coming to a head very soon. Watch the markets crash big time then. Germany did well after WW11, industry and commerce was renewed. Depressing thought I know 🙁

[GarySFBCN]

However we all have to pay a price for the mismanagement of governments, central banks and the private sector in the last decade

Really? Is there one banker in jail? Has any government pursued legal action against the large financial institutions to demand restitution? Other than some politicians being voted out of office (and usually getting positions with good salaries afterwards), there is no accountability.

Let’s bring back flogging in the public square, not for debtors, but for those who perpetuated this global economic meltdown. Until the financial industry is restructured and highly regulated, asking people, many who are living paycheck to paycheck in borderline poverty situations, to pay for ‘the mismanagement’ is one way to ensure the arrival of civil unrest and revolution.

This is not a complicated issue.

[Anonymous]

@GarySFBCN wrote:

However we all have to pay a price for the mismanagement of governments, central banks and the private sector in the last decade

Really? Is there one banker in jail? Has any government pursued legal action against the large financial institutions to demand restitution? Other than some politicians being voted out of office (and usually getting positions with good salaries afterwards), there is no accountability.

Let’s bring back flogging in the public square, not for debtors, but for those who perpetuated this global economic meltdown. Until the financial industry is restructured and highly regulated, asking people, many who are living paycheck to paycheck in borderline poverty situations, to pay for ‘the mismanagement’ is one way to ensure the arrival of civil unrest and revolution.

This is not a complicated issue.

I agree that many needs to be brought to justice.

What makes me sad is that if us three are this far apart in our opinions to fix the situaitons how do you think whole nations are?

I don’t think it can be fixed with todays democracy. We need to let people decide more of their own lives without the possibility for the goverment to meddle in their affairs. It may infringe upon majority rule but it’s the only way to make stuff like this not happen again.

To me what we have today is just a lesser form of communism.

[logan]

@Ardun wrote:

To me what we have today is just a lesser form of communism.

Have you not realised we are all still serfs? We have some advantages over our counterparts in the middle ages but serfs we certainly still are. There is no such thing as freedom it’s an illusion and a word used by politicos to get elected. If we all did our own thing society would quickly implode, community and shared selfish interests hold us together.
To prosper in the system you have to conform to it. We all have to serve somebody. The alternative is living in a mud hut in somewhere like Goa.
The hierarchical system with all it’s imperfections is better than a dictatorship of the proletariat.

[peterhun]

Each UK citizen has $98K in assets – around 300% of GDP – to go against the debt

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/09/15/11-richest-countries_n_717558.html

[Anonymous]

@peterhun wrote:

Each UK citizen has $98K in assets – around 300% of GDP – to go against the debt

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/09/15/11-richest-countries_n_717558.html

But that was just national debt. Add the private debt and i doubt that the figures look so rosy.

[logan]

Greece should default if it wants democracy.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/16f04ffa-5963-11e1-9153-00144feabdc0.html#axzz1mulXF0UJ

[peterhun]

@Ardun wrote:

@peterhun wrote:

Each UK citizen has $98K in assets – around 300% of GDP – to go against the debt

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/09/15/11-richest-countries_n_717558.html

But that was just national debt. Add the private debt and i doubt that the figures look so rosy.

Total UK debt, private, government and bank owned is 450%. There is nothing rosy about it (not as high as Iceland’s was, for instance at 900%).

However, the near 300% of GDP in financial assets change the picture considerably.

[logan]

I love the figure of financial asset global wealth of the USA almost 39%. Compare that with Spain’s puny 2.13% and China’s 4.13%.
With America owning over a third of the entire global financial assets what is there to fear? 🙄

[Author]

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