[Melosine]

http://www.alboxinfo.com/news-demolitions-begin-in-albox-and-vera-1007.htm
Copied from another site
A house was demolished today in Vera by the Junta de Andalucia, despite having Vera town hall planning permission. The house was over four years old and was used by a British pensioner couple. They had received a letter two weeks ago threatening them, but their lawyer said not to worry.
This morning the power and water were cut. The Guardia arrived and said that at 3.30 precisely, the bulldozers were coming. Neighbours helped empty the house of possessions as the time crept nearer. At 3.30 the house was knocked flat.
The demolition order was actioned by the Ministry of Public works of the Junta de Andalucia.

[Anonymous]

There is a bit of contradiction in the article:

1)”The first home to be bulldozed was a villa standing on 1 hectare (appx. 2.47 acres) of land in Loma de Vera, Vera.”

2) “Most of these homes are standing on large parcels of land that have been sub-divided into small plots of between 1,000 and 3,000 square metres. Parcels of this size usually only receive building permissions for small sheds for the purpose of storing agricultural implements.”

There is a big difference between 1 hectare and 1000 square meters.

Does the rule of agricultural implements apply to any land?

Should I understand that the British owners with demolished villa did not bribe the right persons in Vera?

[Melosine]

As I understand it whatever size plot ends up if originally classified agricultural land…. Yes…. still agricultural land.
This has been the problem around Albox area. Farmers have subdivided their land on a wink and a nod , sometimes as small as 600 sq.m , and overnight became builders.
Dare I say it but think the J of A will make examples of the more vunerable expats in Andaluncia thereby only scaring those on CDS where to demolish would make areas like war zones.

[Anonymous]

As one who bought in good faith in that area, from a Spanish olive and almond farmer, and only last year found out that our property was built on rural, agricultural land, IMHO I think everyone in the areas just outside of Albox is vulnerable.

The problem we have is how to find out if we are on the demolition list.

There are varying degrees of legality or illegality there and very few circumstances are the same. Some properties have permissions but no escrituras, some have no escrituras or planning permissions and some like us have escrituras but no planning permission. Some have electricity and water contracts, some dont. It’s a mess

We aren’t considered legal at the local Urbanismo, but we pay local IBI!

Plus we have a mortgage on our illegal property, granted by a large Spanish bank.

Surely, we are either legal or not. It’s this inbetween no mans land that is so frustrating.

I feel so sorry for how the people in Vera were treated, it’s appalling. They were elderly apparently. We at least have some youth on our side and the hope of getting our lives back together if the worst happened, but them……….do Spain respect people’s rights.

I’m not a great fan of the Human Rights Act, but this kind of behaviour by the Junta de Andalucia does not reflect favourably on them, their morals or justice.

[Anonymous]

We also bought in good faith from a developer in Cuevas area but on the coast, was told by our solicitor and the developers all paper work was in order, paid 50% in stage payments it wasn’t until the last payment was requested and they wanted us to complete it came to light there was no licence etc etc, other problems with the developement as well . The houses are built but for the last few years have been just left and are looking so delapidated, its heartbreaking. We tried to get monies back from developers no luck am in the process of legal action, but in the meantime we wait for a decision from the Junta so we could end up with a pile of bricks also. before any court decision so no win situation . At least we weren’t living there although there are some people on our site. Those poor people who had their house demolished have nothing now, at least I still have my home in England , thank goodness we didn’t sell up and take the builders word it will be ready for completion Dec 2004.

I feel so let down don’t know how they must be feeling.

axwhale

[Anonymous]

There is more about this villa being demolished. I have copied this from another forum –

Two British pensioners living in Spain have had their home demolished after being given two hours to pack their belongings – reviving fears among thousands of other expatriates that their own houses could be at risk.

Len and Helen Prior, both 63, moved from Berkshire to Vera, a village near AlmerÍa, on the southern coast of Spain, six years ago, investing their life savings in a £350,000 home. They gained planning permission for their project from the town hall but the regional government of Andalusia insisted that the home had been built on protected greenbelt land and had to be demolished.

Despite threats from the regional authorities, the Priors’ solicitor had repeatedly assured them that their home would be safe. On Wednesday morning, however, a dozen police officers stood guard as a mechanical digger moved in. The couple were given two hours to clear out their belongings before their home was bulldozed.

Mr Prior, who suffers from a heart condition, collapsed and was taken to a nearby hospital. He was later discharged and the couple were staying with neighbours yesterday.

Related Links
Expats could lose their place in the sun
“We’re devastated,” Mr Prior said. “This has been our home for almost six years. To have it pulled down in front of you is painful beyond belief. We sold a beautiful house in Berkshire to move over here six years ago so that we could enjoy the weather and the Spanish lifestyle. Now we wish that we had just stayed put.

“It has turned into a nightmare. Our home is just a pile of rubble and we have nowhere to go.”

Mrs Prior, a retired computer programmer, said: “I stayed behind and watched the house and garden being torn down. It was quite horrendous. We have invested so much time, effort and money in it. The garden was my pride and joy and took us years to complete. I am very, very angry.”

The Priors have received no compensation from the regional authorities, but plan to pursue a claim through the courts. Another ten homes in the neighbourhood are reported to have been threatened with demolition.

Many villagers watched in horror as the three-bedroom house, which had a swimming pool, was reduced to rubble. “It was absolutely unbelievable,” said a neighbour, who asked to remain anonymous. “Everybody in the area just feels totally sick.”

Though many British homeowners in Spain are facing legal problems, the demolition of property belonging to expatriates has so far been rare. But the move by Andalusia’s regional government has heightened fears that they could become much more common in future.

“I hope that it’s not a sign of worse things to come,” said Charles Svoboda, a retired Canadian diplomat who campaigns against Valencia’s “Land Grab” law.

“There is no legal certainty in Spain. It is certainly not going to improve the country’s reputation for being a place to which you can retire in peace.”

Yesterday the inhabitants of Vera expressed particular outrage at how the Priors’ home was destroyed. “It was the way it was done. To give somebody two hours to get their belongings out – it’s inhumane. It’s not the way things are done,” a neighbour said.

The local mayor, Félix López Caparrós, said that the Priors had fallen victim to a planning dispute between the town hall and the regional government. “We have become the scapegoat in this battle,” he added.

He said that the demolition was illegal because the regional authorities had not awaited the verdict of a court appeal.

A spokesman for the regional government of Andalusia said that he had no information on the incident.

[Anonymous]

TRULY OUTRAGEOUS AND SHOCKING!!! 😈 😈 😈

I bet they wouldn’t dream of bulldozing the developments around Marbella that have no LFO or that were built on Green Belt land. It wouldn’t be good for business. They just pick on singular ,weak individuals that are easy targets. It is inhuman. ( I do not agree with demolition before anyone screams at me 😉 )

He said that the demolition was illegal because the regional authorities had not awaited the verdict of a court appeal.

Since when do the Spanish authorities take notice of what is or isn’t illegal ❓

[Anonymous]

Searching for online UK newspapers, this news item is very well publicised and there are some heart rending pictures of the lovely villa, before and after demolition.

We have always been told “Oh, but they won’t pull your house down, they never do”. Well now don’t be so sure.

[Anonymous]

Truly a terrible story.

But what about the lawyer? Do we know who he/she is? Can we out them as one of the many incompetent Spanish lawyers who simply fail to do their job to protect their clients?

[Anonymous]

OMG!!!! Just seen on the news the poor British couple whose house has been demolished today. Apparently the police etc turned up and gave them two hours to leave….. Result: man collapses with suspected heart attack. Awful!! Why should they be blamed for the local planning fiasco?
All this makes you wonder whether it’s worth buying in Spain – particularly as your rights don’t seem to be respected.

[Anonymous]

cbogan wrote:

All this makes you wonder whether it’s worth buying in Spain – particularly as your rights don’t seem to be respected.

That’s exactly true.

I think buying in MOrocco or Egypt does not sound that bad anymore…

[Anonymous]

This poor couple. I just feel shell shocked , what chance have the rest of us got now with our deemed illegal builds.

I used to be able to think positively, 🙁 . Not any more. No confidence in Spain. Been cra–ed on too many times now .

Wouldn’t go down the line of buying in Spain if I had my time over again.

Axwhale feeling very 👿

[Anonymous]

The worst is that the town hall know who the dodgy developers are but dont prosecute them – I wonder why?!

Spanish judges come down on the side of dodgy developers – I wonder why?

The Spanish authorities pass the buck and do not take responsibility for the corruption that is ruining their country.

I agree, I wish that we had never moved to Spain either. We did it for the right reasons (our childrens health) and we have been scammed by lawyers, developers, banks.

Then to top it all, our English neighbours did not want us to stand up for ourselves because they were afraid to find out that they have been scammed too. I wonder what they think now with this new and very real threat to their little idylls.

As a country, unfortunately it is morally bankrupt, however I dont reckon they care as long as they are not financially so. Perhaps the EU should step in and stop Spains subsidies/grants etc until they start behaving properly.

[Anonymous]

Michael Cashman spoke about the case on Radio 4 this evening. He said:
Don’t think once, don’t think twice. Think ten times before buying a property in Spain. He is on the case of thousands of people caught up in the Spanish property debacle. He says it could go to the European Courts of Human Rights in Strasbourg.
The sooner the better IMO.

[Anonymous]

axwhale wrote:

This poor couple. I just feel shell shocked , what chance have the rest of us got now with our deemed illegal builds.

I used to be able to think positively, 🙁 . Not any more. No confidence in Spain. Been cra–ed on too many times now .

Wouldn’t go down the line of buying in Spain if I had my time over again.

Axwhale feeling very 👿

When will the Spanish authorities ever learn?, when will they ever learn to misquote Miss Marlene Dietrich

LRAU and LUV laws? in Valencia, people losing swathes of their land for infrastructure they did n´t want, then being made to pay fortune for the priviledge.

Andalucian governemnt now bulldozing properties bought in good faith, as usual they do not go after the crooks but make the innocent parties pay.

A local mayor was shot dead a few months ago on the Costa Blanca no arrests have been made but was almost certainly to problems with planning, if planning really exists, a free for all the politicians and their friends the developers.

There is a law saying that no property can be built within 50 mts of the beach, yet in Calpe (Alicante a 12 storey hotel is being built 6 mts from the beach.

When will they ever learn, the name of Spain stinks?

[Anonymous]

Len Prior is comforted by his wife Helen after collapsing with the strain

And the slogan at the end of the new Spanish tv ad. campaign on BBC World? ……… “Smile, you’re in Spain”.
I can’t see Mrs. Prior smiling in the above picture.

It’s disgraceful that recently judges were ordering purchasers to complete on appartments that had no legal status, despite the building licence having been revoked and a LFO refused. I think lawyers defending Brits. in these cases should quote the events in Vera as the perfect argument why not to complete.
The Spanish can’t have it both ways – how can they say you must complete on an illegal build, but as it’s illegal they then say they have the right to demolish it.

At least Mr. & Mrs. Prior’s house had legal documents. Why not start the demolitions with all those houses built years ago without even a scrap of paper from the Town Hall (as has been ‘Spanish tradition’), or is it because they are mainly owned by the Spanish?

Antonio Vercher, the chief state prosecutor in charge of protecting Spain’s environment, ordered prosecutors throughout the country to be ‘relentless’ in pursuing demolition orders.
What a pity they couldn’t be ‘relentless’ in pursuing the corruptors (developers) and the corrupted (Town Hall officials) instead. The responsibility for this situation lies firmly with the Spanish authorities for the corruption in their midst. Not forgetting of course the co-conspirators in the middle…agents, lawyers, notaries etc.

I wonder how many millions of euros in funding Spain is going ask the EU for this year? It is my belief any future funding should be held back by the EU to cover compensation for demolitions, Land Grab and court cases lost over illegal builds. That should concentrate their minds until they address this situation correctly.

[Anonymous]

Brilliantly written Charlie. IMO you state the real facts of Spanish injustice.

[Anonymous]

What total incomprehensible incompetence. I’ve just read the story of the Priors to mum over the ‘phone; she says this is worse than being bombed in the War.

The life of this couple has been raped by the Spanish authorities, & they have also been put at further serious risk in terms of their health etc.

In September the FCO wrote to me:
“The European Parliament and the European Commission are actively engaged over the possibility that the Land Laws in several areas of Spain are in breach of EU Law, and we understand that there are cases pending at the European Court of Justice and the European Court of Human Rights”.
The final paragraph states:
“We know that we need to continue to exert pressure on the Spanish authorities, and I can assure you that we are prepared to keep doing so”.

I am writing to the FCO again today, & will ask them EXACTLY what they ARE doing. At the moment Michael Cashman seems to be the only MEP fighting this continuously, but sounds like a distant voice in the wilderness to many.

[Anonymous]

We have an impotent government. They are too busy trying to find new ways of “raping” motorists and covering each others backsides for the indiscretions many of them make. (eg Peter Haines!)

[Anonymous]

Have just read this:

“The Councillor for Public Works of the Junta, Luis Caparrós, said that the Andalucian Government had respected the order of the judge which was firm, and that by doing so legality had been restored”.

So Sr. Caparrós – that makes everything alright then. Legality has been restored! Regardless that the ‘corrupt criminals’ who created this mess are still out there, untouched, living in their nice houses…. no doubt paid for by bribes that ultimately were paid from British pockets when purchasing.

Would your arrogance and smug satisfied stance have been so total if the Priors had been your parents? Nothing has been ‘restored’, especially confidence in Spain’s property market.

If you think anything at all has been ‘restored’, you are barking (mad) up the wrong tree. This couple’s life-savings were in that house. What about restoring THAT.

I deleted my original reply – did not want to get booted off the forum. 🙁

[Anonymous]

“Four more British couples face seeing their Spanish homes bulldozed after officials ruled that the buildings are illegal.
And yesterday the regional Andalusian government said: ‘Ten more houses in that area were illegally built and will be demolished.”
courtesy of Dail Mail

Come on guys, time for an arm-linked sit-in across the road and a few chorus’s of “We shall not be moved”. You’ll have every newspaper from around the world with their cameras clicking away as you’re manhandled out of the way.

That will render the ‘Smile, you’re in Spain’ ad. campaign a bit ….. useless. 😀

P.S. Wish I was there, I’d join you.

[katy]

Great comments charlie. I did wonder where all the local community was when the demolition happened. Could it be a case of i’m alright Jack! I did notice there wasn’t a lot of reaction on another spanish forum.

[Anonymous]

Maybe a few landmines for when the bulldozers arrive. 👿

[Anonymous]

Antonio Vercher, the chief state prosecutor in charge of protecting Spain’s environment, ordered prosecutors throughout the country to be ‘relentless’ in pursuing demolition orders.
What a pity they couldn’t be ‘relentless’ in pursuing the corruptors (developers) and the corrupted (Town Hall officials) instead. The responsibility for this situation lies firmly with the Spanish authorities for the corruption in their midst. Not forgetting of course the co-conspirators in the middle…agents, lawyers, notaries etc.

So true.
Seems to me that Mr Vercher, who was educated at Cambridge & Harvard , does now have ‘draconian’ powers to influence local courts. Maybe this is very rude, but he could be seen as a modern day Grand Inquisitor for Environmental issues. being in such a strong position at the moment, and having plenty of support apparently from PSOE , he may see his ambition to flatten 100,000 homes built “illegally” in Spain as his over whelming passion in life. A pinnacle of his lifetimes work.
Does anyone know about Mr Vercher and his philosophy as this would perhaps enable non Spanish academics to comprehend the direction Spain will be going in this planning scenario ?
I tried Googling but only got as far as some paper he wrote entitled:
“Los derechos. humanos en Palestina” or “The rights of the Palestinians”
it was published in CLAVES periodical No. 79 of February 1998. I would dearly like to see what he wrote and if he touched on the plight of bulldozed Palestinian property. Property & land that was acquired forcefully by the Israelis. And if he has a view about the rights of those people. It may give some better insight into the way his mind works.

Quite apart from Mr Vercher’s legal & political background it seems to me that if he does wield enormous influence within Spain then local Juntas, especially the one installed in Andalucia will be empowered to carry out the will of the top man. head honcho as they say. The local judge will feel much more relaxed with dishing out the edicts of the Grand Inquisitor and especially if there was some local political advantages to be had. The local man (as has been referred to above) will merely shrug his shoulders and blame it on Madrid.
Meanwhile the Green vote will swing towards the PSOE.

[Anonymous]

MASSIVE TRAIN CRASH 👿

[Anonymous]

JUST A THOUGHT

After the terrible &corrupt reposession of so called illegal constuction in the costas.

In the future will there be any safeguards that the so called illegal sites, will be sold to international speculators.The spanish would then i suppose once more this time obtain the legal licenses and make more money by reselling the sites for new build.

Dickt

[Melosine]

Katy,
Certainly three forums , local to this area, I subscribe to are incensed and it was from one of them I picked up info originally.
Understand their neighbours were very very helpful. Unlike Spanish TV company who failed to appear.
Odd that. Not like the media to diss BIG news 👿
Someone on one of these forums wondered if this is where the proposed Vera railway line is going. Interesting thought.

[Anonymous]

I am trying to make sense of the safeguards that could have been taken before this house was built, and I would like to know where anyone can find out the status of land, i.e. is it protected, green, rustic, urban?

The only answer I come up with is the local town hall. Does anyone know where else the answer can be found?

In this case the town hall issued a licence to build. So what more could anyone have done?

Many of us find ourselves in a similar situation and the town hall say “don’t worry”. How can we find out if the Junta is looking at our particular property? I think there will be many of us here in Spain who will not sleep so well at night now, and as for the advert “Smile You’re in Spain” I have to stop myself throwing something at the TV everytime I see it!!

[katy]

I haven’t seen anything in the spanish media or on TV. Suppose I could have missed it 😕

[Anonymous]

Arabrab –
typicallyspanish quote:

‘British pensioner, 63 year old Len Prior, collapsed onto the ground as demolition men moved in to knock down his home in the La Loma area of Vera, Almeria on Wednesday. He is known to have a heart condition. He and his wife purchased the retirement property in Vera unaware that they were entering into a network of corrupt builders and lawyers who allegedly paid backhanders to local officials.

The Priors were told that their home had planning permission, and Mayor of Vera, Félix López, agrees they were given permission in 2002, but the Junta de Andalucía insists the building was erected illegally on rustic land, and the Judge agreed with the regional government and ordered demolition. The local Mayor told the local Ideal newspaper that he is very angry at what has happened, saying it has made Vera the illegal development scapegoat in Almería province.

The Councillor for Public Works of the Junta, Luis Caparrós, said that the Andalucian Government had respected the order of the judge which was firm, and that by doing so legality had been restored. A total of 17 homes in La Loma de Vera face demolition.

British newspaper The Daily Mail claims the couple was given just two hours to get out of their home. Wife Helen Prior, also aged 63, said that thankfully the neighbours helped them to get all their possessions out in time. It’s thought to be the first case of a British owned home in Spain to be demolished in such a way.’
http://www.typicallyspanish.com/news/publish/article_14550.shtml

[Anonymous]

@arabrab wrote:

I am trying to make sense of the safeguards that could have been taken before this house was built, and I would like to know where anyone can find out the status of land, i.e. is it protected, green, rustic, urban?

As far as I understand (and I may well be corrected), it is really down to your lawyer to check the status of your land against the Junta’s PGOU plan – which would be available at the local Town Hall. The PGOU is very clear on what areas are disignated for what purpose.
If your lawyer is good, and appreciates the fact that it is you who is paying him, he would do that to ensure your best interests are looked after.
However there are some lawyers…… 🙄

[Anonymous]

OK. Just on this point about lawyers and plans in this general area.

Not far from Vera in Almeria is a place called Carboneras. A small place on the coast surrounded by rugged dry hills but having a beautiful coastline stretching down much further south to Cabo de Gato.

As I understand it, the local mayor and community agreed that a large hotel should be built nearby at a beach called El Algarrobico. The hotel was built and getting almost ready for installing all the innards. Then the Ecologists moved in and even Spanish Greenpeace and protested saying it was being built within the Cabo de Gato preserved park area. After a while the Junta Andalucia spokesperson and Chaves declared that it was illegal and will be demolished being built in the park or protected non urban land.
Latest news is that the zone where this hotel has been built will be re classified and it will be able to stay.
Hopefully the Priors and all the others who will see their smaller properties bulldozed will be able to be put up at this hotel by the Junta once it is completed. Lovely views of the sea and of course quite unspoilt.
This is a picture taken from Google Earth Panoramio:
http://www.panoramio.com/photo/138158

And this is the friends of the Cabo de Gato Park information on the re zoning or re classification of this piece of land. http://www.cabodegata.net/esultimasxa.html

Maybe the Junta had second thoughts with this hotel project as it was somewhat different to the villas further up the coast. Any ideas why ?

[katy]

I hope the Lawyer who represented the couple is named and shamed…he should never work again 😈

[Anonymous]

@cbogan wrote:

All this makes you wonder whether it’s worth buying in Spain – particularly as your rights don’t seem to be respected.

Definately.

This is making me completely reconsider my future plans regarding purchase in Spain.

‘Land grab’ and now this……it just doesn’t seem worth the risk.

[Anonymous]

Probably nothing has been on the Spanish media as they dont give a monkeys re English people being scammed.

Wouldn’t look good for Spain, tourism and therefore their economy!

At the end of the day, it has been and still is all about money.

Incidentally, 2 Spanish lawyers told us everything was perfect and legal re our house. We sat in one office and asked the guy straight out if eveything was legal and he had the brass neck to reply “yes, perfect”.

He backed out of the purchase 6/8 weeks later saying that he could not guarantee legality. He had got us to sign a compraventa and part with a deposit the 6/8 weeks prior to this bonbshell and would not be drawn on why it could be illegal.

We took advice from a second lawyer and asked them to double and triple check the legality of the property. We said that we could not afford for it to be illegal. He said it was perfect and helped us to complete at notary.

I have since found out that instead of representing our interests, he was compelled to do what the Spanish seller said and draw up a contract to their liking. He has to my face admitted that he feels partially responsible for the mess we are in. He said that he knows the Spanish people we dealt with are “difficult people”.

Neither of these 2 at any point said that the build was illegal (no permissions or licenses) or that it was built on rural land.

What hope is there if lawyers aren’t on your side when being paid to be?!

Regarding the town hall, even when we signed on the Empadronmiento and gave our address, they did not say we cant take this address as it’s illegal!!!

This was before completion so what hope did we have?

[Melosine]

Still no show from any Spanish media 👿 but GMTV were recording on the site this morning.

[Anonymous]

This is making me completely reconsider my future plans regarding purchase in Spain.

‘Land grab’ and now this……it just doesn’t seem worth the risk.

Me Too!

This is so cruel and corrupt. It has hit the UK news. The advice given over the radio was ‘Don’t buy in Spain at the moment because new problems are surfacing’. To see an elderly couple being treated in this way breaks ones heart.

This is all about money laundering. The purchaser is at the top of a chain of illegal activity and unwittingly is turning ‘dirty’ money into ‘clean’ money. The consequences of this criminal activity can leave innocent retirees penniless. Disgusting.

👿 👿 👿 👿 👿 👿 👿

[Anonymous]

Hi all

Lets assume that this property was properly illegal, lets also assume that all involved knew it was illegal.
HOW IN AN ALLEDGED MODERN, FAMILY ORIENTATED. EUROPEAN COUNTRY can two elderly people be given 2 hrs to remove there belongings from there home and then have to watch it being demolished, only death of a family member could be worse.

In my last business we had factory units on industrial estates. one day I went to a branch in the home counties to find that Gypsies had broken in overnight and had completely taken over the site, all units where blocked in and incapable of doing any business. What did the local council do, they brought in standpipes for fresh water, hot food, and took all the kids to a school
Two extremes,but can any of you imagine having to watch your home being demolished. As I said yesterday it is barbaric, its the only word.

SV

[katy]

If it were to happen in the UK (and I don’t think it would) there would have been social workers and counsellors standing by and a place for them to go. It truly is inhuman whichever country this happens. I just imagine if it had been my elderly parents or relatives, I think I would have flipped.

[Anonymous]

The AUAN (Abusos Urbanisticos Almanzora NO) have made a statement on their website concerning the Vera demolitions.

http://www.almanzora-au.org

[Anonymous]

GMTV covered the story at 8.10 this morning. It wasn’t a particularly impressive report but they have promised to follow up so lets hope they keep it to the forefront. The Dail Mail are doing a very good job of reporting this and linking it to other planning issues and corruption in Spain:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/femail/article.html?in_article_id=508032&in_page_id=1879

The article also names the lawyer.

[Anonymous]

@tilly wrote:

The article also names the lawyer.

Being in the newspapers, his name is no secret now Tilly. And indeed why should it be… 😀

Apparently he “argued and gesticulated with the regional officials”. Too little, too late.
Victor Martinez-Abarca, you should have done a better job to begin with.

[Anonymous]

Will be interesting to see if the builder of this villa (a company call Moya) and the local Mayor Felix Lopez Caparros have to undergo any investigation for corruption.
Am not holding my breath but will be watching for news on this with interest.

P.S. Anyone interested in a villa from Moya ❗ you can visit their website: http://www.inmobiliariamoya.com
Yep, still advertising villas in Vera.

[Anonymous]

” If your lawyer is good, and appreciates the fact that it is you who is paying him, he would do that to ensure your best interests are looked after”

Lawyers in Spain have no standing. Anybody who has dealt with them should know this by now.

[Anonymous]

With such high profile this case is receiving from the british media coupled with the demise of the pound second home sales must be at their lowest for many years. I have a friend who is an estate agent on the cds and he confirms it is very quiet

[Anonymous]

Follow this link to the story in the UK’s Daily Mail today. The photographs say it all!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/femail/article.html?in_article_id=508032&in_page_id=1879

[Anonymous]

@KevynDee wrote:

Follow this link to the story in the UK’s Daily Mail today.

Tilly already posted this link today on page 3 of this thread. 🙄

Concentrate now Kevyn if you don’t want your opportunist-advertising to be sussed.

[Anonymous]

Well spotted Charlie. Glad to see you are on the case! 😉

[Anonymous]

charlie has got some accumen.
I didn’t know until today but Mr Zapatero likes going to Vera Playa and last year or was it 2006 actually bought a ‘casa’ near the beach according to this report.
When he visits next he will be able to see at first hand how his colleagues in PSOE have managed to deal with all those demolitions.
http://www.reporterodigital.com/andalucia/post.php/2007/03/20/desde_aqui_zapatero_vera_culos_y_tetas
Whilst enjoying the fresh air he could get whisked in his limo down the coast a little way to Carboneras. It’s only a short drive. he could take the scenic route past Mojacar.

That would allow him to see at first hand how efficiently the authorities have bulldozed and dynamited the 400 plus bedroom El Algarrobico hotel since his colleague in Seville, Mr Chaves, leader of the PSOE in Andalucia promised to do so in May 2006 amidst great publicity !
Or am I thinking that the hotel will not now be blown up because of some rethinking of zoning ?
If it is to remain then why not the junta house all the foreign buyers who mistakenly thought that the papers were in order at the hotel ? A splendid and fair result for all parties.
Both Mr Zapatero and Mr Chaves can throw a big welcome party in the enormous foyer to welcome the displaced refugees.
Lateral thinking is required.

[Anonymous]

The little local difficulties in Vera & Albox dim into insignificance compared with the uphill struggle that the Mayor of Marbella Ángeles Muñoz has in unravelling years and years of mal administration overseen by the Junta de Andalucia led by Mr Chaves.
Ángeles Muñoz the PP (anti PSOE) recently appointed mayoress of Marbella has said recently:

“The Town Hall considers that the buyers purchased their properties in good faith, and should not be penalised. Of the 8,537 complaints placed against the proposed new PGOU Urban Plan in the town, 4,038 are from the owners of illegally built property, 47% of the total.

The Junta has said that the estimated 18,000 illegal properties in the town can be made legal under a process which forces the property developer to compensate the Town Hall with payment or the provision of other land to be used for social purposes. However under those plans if the developer is no longer in business the responsibility for the compensation payments will fall on the owners of the properties concerned.”

No talk of buildings being demolished in Marbella. Just a practical solution to a sticky problem.

[Anonymous]

charlie wrote:

Will be interesting to see if the builder of this villa (a company call Moya) and the local Mayor Felix Lopez Caparros have to undergo any investigation for corruption.
Am not holding my breath but will be watching for news on this with interest.

P.S. Anyone interested in a villa from Moya ❗ you can visit their website: http://www.inmobiliariamoya.com
Yep, still advertising villas in Vera.

I see they only have a few villas left,”Ultimas villas ” Do not be taken in by this as the same notice will apply this time next year.

[Anonymous]

MOYA have a real snip. €59,000 ruin with no roof in a parcela of 681 M2 only 3 kms from VERA ! With great potential. 😆

[Anonymous]

This might be a stupid question but…..

What happens if you have a mortgage on a house that gets demolished?

Do you still owe the money to the bank, and if you stop paying them, what do they repossess? 😯

[Anonymous]

“What happens if you have a mortgage on a house that gets demolished”
You take a loan, you are responsible for paying it.
What if you take a loan for a TV, someone steals it and your not insured?
You have to pay the loan.

“Do you still owe the money to the bank, and if you stop paying them, what do they repossess”
You take the loan, you pay it back.
Remember, if a loan is taken with the property offered as security, if the Banks repossess, and sell on for less than the loan, you are still owe the balance, which the bank can claim.
Happened big time in UK during the time of negative equity.

[Anonymous]

http://jiminy304.vox.com

[Anonymous]

Almost immediately after the electionswhich PA Vwon again, the Junta started putting pressure on the Town hall. At first they asked them to provide sewerage for 8 towns when they already had sufficient sewerage. They then started to badger the judge who held the Prior’s case. That judge then ruled in the Junta’s favour. Vera accepted that decision at that time as it is common for this to happen and usually such a property would be left off the plans until the next occasion of rewriting the areas for ubanisation when it would be included

.
I think many Judges are “leaned” on by developers etc, hence we hear of so many current cases going against the plaintiffs.

A Spanish solicitor present at the meeting who has represented people in Valencia over the land grab laws told the meeting that that it was scandalous that, in his country, a dispute between two political bodies could lead to this scenario. He also said that the biggest problem in Spain was Justice as it took too long to resolve cases and Justice delayed is Justice denied. He said that central government was looking at that issue.

Well said that Lawyer!

[Anonymous]

In this latest development with Spanish properties and the general corruption that still seems to steam-roller on without any kind of regional or national legislation to check it and reign-in the rogues, can anyone give any advice now on just how to buy a property in Spain if, as it now seems, nobody, including elected officials, lawyers, notaries etc. can be trusted?
We still want to retire to Spain, mainly because our pensions will only be something in the region of a quarter of what we are currently earning and we would have a far better standard of living in Spain compared to a hand-to-mouth existence if we stay in the UK.
France is not an option now because of the increasing animosity plus updated rules and regulations coming into force and Malta, where I was born, is so expensive that we wrote that one off five years ago.
I would really appreciate any advice now as we are geared up for Spain and have a huge check list on how to do things correctly but this Vera incident has us extremely worried – especially my wife.
Thanks.
stevmk2.

[Inez]

If you are still thinking of buying in Spain then do so – whilst there are huge fears on all accounts, there are good properties around, legal and safe. Make sure you have a good independant lawyer – and there are several – and that the property is fully legal and on the PGOU.

Dont go for off-plan unless its about to complete in which case you will get a bargain from others desperate to sell.

Despite what you hear, its quite bouyant, each day is different, I was quiet yesterday, traditionally a busy day, but today I will be back to a 12 hour one – and I havent left my chair!

Might be an idea to rent for a while until you get your bearings and then look for a good deal in the area you want. If not available, then wait as it wont be long.

If you are a cash buyer then you will do well – many cash buyers out now BUT offering around 50% of General agency prices, therefore in reality about 60% of a bank val price. You may not get it the fist time around or be resufed totally, but they are out there.

Good luck and enjoy.

[Anonymous]

Thanks Inez,

We’re still a couple of years away from buying and Yes, we will be cash buyers and, Yes, we fully intend to rent for a while to get the feel of which-ever area that we decide to go for. Friends of ours did so but then fell for the black money ploy at the Notary, yet still coughed-up!
I’d have walked away, even if my wife was in tears but she knows that I will not take any risks whatsover with our future!
I’m a regular reader of this site and, because of that plus my other contacts and friends so I’ve got so much information on the best ways to do it all now that I find it very hard to understand posts from people still thinking that they’ll make a killing with off-plan!
No way Jose is all that I’ll add to that, unless it’s a distress sale and I can screw someone rotten of course.
Do unto others they say……….
stevmk2

[Inez]

Youre welcome and its a buyers market very much so – in a couple of years time you will have a good choice as I doubt this mess will clear for a very long time. Location will out but if you go for distressed and its an aparment even off plan, make sure all are sold as there are cases of practical ghost town complexes with no one around – fine if youlike yourown space but NOT good if the others dont pay community fees.

The look of the community is vital for obvious reasons.

You have a good head on your shoulders and seeing as its still sunny and warm here today – around 18 degrees, I reckon yo will be making the right choice!

[Melosine]

stevmk2

Be very firm and explain to agents and your lawyer that “black money” is not an option. We did. Even though one Spanish owner on deeds the cost was distributed, by our lawyer, to various members of his family.
Mind you we seem to be the only people who have bought in Spain who didn’t pay BM.

There is now an insurance policy to safeguard, apparently for 20 years, against problems with developer and legalities.
Cost 300 euros . Insured for 350,000. So worth investigating.
Told to my friends , who are buying in Arboleas, by their lawyer in Vera.
If true certainly all i’s and t’s will be crossed.

Understand the Priors house was refused planning permission by the Junta on 3 occasions but Mayor went ahead regardless. Whether the Priors were aware or not is the BIG question.
According to whatever local rag one reads the Priors are either for or against the Mayor !!!

[Anonymous]

Well Stevmk2, if you are thinking of going to the Almanzora Valley area to retire and buy, then your attitude of “…unless it’s a distress sale and I can screw someone rotten of course.
Do unto others they say………. “
will help you fit right in!!!!!!!!

That is how some of us got into this mess, by being screwed rotten.

My advice, dont buy now even if you think you are going to get a bargain at someone elses expense.

Dont buy anywhere rural, that has a pozo negro, even if it has been recommended by some nice trustworthy English. It may have what appears to be all the paperwork, but as we have seen with the Vera couple, at the moment this means nothing re the Junta, town councils or the local developers (small or large).

[Anonymous]

Hi
Understand the Priors house was refused planning permission by the Junta on 3 occasions but Mayor went ahead regardless. Whether the Priors were aware or not is the BIG question.

What the world remembers is the couple with their hearts broken their finances and future in termoil.
They were seen as a couple with all of the legals in place which proved to be as useful as the paper to wipe your arse with.
There is no Take 2 and this undermined everything that many believed to be a legal system in place to protect those buying and owning property in Spain.
The damage is done even if they knew and the world should know if they didnt.

Frank 8)

[Anonymous]

You seem like a very clued-up person Inez and, once again, I thank you for your honest opinion and advice.
My wife and I have been discussing this Vera incident and she’s very worried, as I expected, so now I’m going into researching lawyers and, if possibly Notaries in the Valencia Region – for starters!

We’ve got a soft spot for the Northern Costa Blanca in particular and we’re going on holiday in Denia again this year so we’ve decided to look around Gandia / La Safor too plus visit friends near Cocentaina for a couple of days.

Do you know if Mark’s lists cover the Northern Costa Blanca – lawyers I mean?

stevmk2

[Anonymous]

Certainly Frank, the problems in Andalucia are not small and if the Spanish government think it is a “little local problem”, they are reading the situation all wrong.

This kind of hardnosed attitude by the authorities, rightly or wrongly, tars or marrs the whole of Spain and as such will cause a loss of confidence. We know what that does to markets and economies!

Until the Spanish people as a whole decide to stop the corruption that, I have been told, is rife in Spain, then nothing will change. They have to take away the incentives that allow those in positions of trust to play fast and loose with peoples lives, finances, health and dreams.

Otherwise Spain will permanently be seen as a nation of cowboys and rogues, no matter the weather and so called better standard of living (which I would dispute having lived there and seen the money being squeezed bit by bit from our account).

On the surface, it may look cheaper to live there, but there are a lot of “hidden” costs.

I hope the Spanish property owners who have been scammed too make a stand and let it be seen that this is not just an expat issue that can be ignored or swept under the carpet.

[Anonymous]

Fran

I’m sorry if I upset you but the “distress sale” line was a joke really.

[Anonymous]

Have all the “land grab” issues in Valencia been resolved now then?

Special care needs taking in Spain generally, especially along the popular coastal areas.

Good luck Stevmk2, I reckon you’re going to need it!

I read somewhere recently, that no one considers themselves a fool, but it is easy to be fooled by a determined conman. That is why they are so successful!

[Anonymous]

Apology accepted. It was just in rather poor taste, given that lots of us are in rather difficult situations, having been scammed in a variety of ways.

Dont get me wrong, I find that a sense of humour helps me deal with the predicament, but trust me when all your hard earned savings are tied up in a house (bought in good faith) that is illegal and may be demolished, the recent events are very close to home! Excuse the pun.

[Anonymous]

There is now an insurance policy to safeguard, apparently for 20 years, against problems with developer and legalities.
Cost 300 euros . Insured for 350,000. So worth investigating.

The reason why this policy is so cheap, is because it is not worth the paper it is written on.

It is another scam; these insurance companies will disappear into the night once claims start to materialise. How can you insure against a risk when those risks are un-measurable?

I appreciate your sentiment though and feel sorry for the nervousness that is percolating throughout Southern Spain at the moment. 🙄 🙁

[Anonymous]

There is now an insurance policy to safeguard, apparently for 20 years, against problems with developer and legalities.
Cost 300 euros . Insured for 350,000. So worth investigating.

The reason why this policy is so cheap, is because it is not worth the paper it is written on.

It is another scam; these insurance companies will disappear into the night once claims start to materialise. How can you insure against a risk when those risks are un-measurable?

I appreciate your sentiment though and feel sorry for the nervousness that is percolating throughout Southern Spain at the moment. 🙄 🙁

[Anonymous]

There is to be a peaceful demonstration against the demolitions outside the Vera town hall this Sunday (27th Jan) at 12.00.

I am told it is to be supported by the Spanish as well.

So those of you who are near enough, lets get down there and support the Priors and those other people who may also find themselves in this dreadful situation.

[Anonymous]

There is to be a peaceful demonstration against the demolitions outside the Vera town hall this Sunday (27th Jan) at 12.00.

I am told it is to be supported by the Spanish as well.

So those of you who are near enough, lets get down there and support the Priors and those other people who may also find themselves in this dreadful situation.

[Inez]

Thanks Steve – many years of dealing with this system and seeing the pitfalls I hope has helped me a litte in the understanding of the Spanish and their workings!

I dont know if Mark has lawyers in that region but if not I was in Almeria last week and met a delightful chap who is undertaking works on our behalf and can recommend him if you like

Research and personl recomendations are the key, but dont spend too much at it or you will never come out! 😆

[Inez]

Thanks Steve – many years of dealing with this system and seeing the pitfalls I hope has helped me a litte in the understanding of the Spanish and their workings!

I dont know if Mark has lawyers in that region but if not I was in Almeria last week and met a delightful chap who is undertaking works on our behalf and can recommend him if you like

Research and personl recomendations are the key, but dont spend too much at it or you will never come out! 😆

[Melosine]

Understand insurance is underwritten by Unicaja .
Anyone interested can pm me for contact phone number and email address .

[Melosine]

Understand insurance is underwritten by Unicaja .
Anyone interested can pm me for contact phone number and email address .

[Anonymous]

Antonio Banderas has been ordered to demolish part of his Costa del Sol mansion – not wishing to be unsympathetic, but this should help with the publicity of the demolition at Vera!

http://www.typicallyspanish.com/news/publish/article_14771.shtml

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_article_id=510165&in_page_id=1811&ito=newsnow

[Anonymous]

Antonio Banderas has been ordered to demolish part of his Costa del Sol mansion – not wishing to be unsympathetic, but this should help with the publicity of the demolition at Vera!

http://www.typicallyspanish.com/news/publish/article_14771.shtml

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_article_id=510165&in_page_id=1811&ito=newsnow

[Anonymous]

It will be very interesting to see how his lawyers fair in the Court when they appeal.

[Anonymous]

It will be very interesting to see how his lawyers fair in the Court when they appeal.

[lifeinspain]

I fail to see any parallel between Antonio Banderas’ possible situation and that of the Priors.

This was the Priors main residence and only residence, it respresented their future and dreams. It was also all their money and their security.

I cannot see AB losing a night sleep over it!

So many people now are not sleeing properly. Are sick with worry which is causing them to become ill. All because Spain and it’s sick corrupt, morally bankrupt administration fail to recognise all of this and deal with it AND to hell wth human rights!

Yes……in case you are wondering. I am one of those suffering.

Spain is a sewer

[Anonymous]

“I fail to see any parallel between Antonio Banderas’ possible situation and that of the Priors” – The parallel being that it is their property and their money, irrespective if it is their main home or holiday residence.
Surely what one earns should not come into it?
Financially it may be tougher for the couple affected, but it does go to show that the law DOES not consider your wealth and status.

[Anonymous]

lifeinspain,

I am desperately sorry for anyone who is involved in the dreadful situation in Almeria.

The reason I posted the link to the Daily Mail article about Antonio Banderas was that it also included a further mention of the Priors’ situation and I do believe that the more column inches generated in newpapers the greater the awareness. If a ‘celeb’ is affected then it will attract more publicity.

I’m truly sorry if it seemed insensitive.

[Melosine]

http://www.alboxinfo.com/news-demonstration-ov … n-1009.htm

70% of people involved in demonstration were Spanish.

[Melosine]

GMTV were there . On air early tomorrow morning.

[Anonymous]

Melosine, Did you go the demo? It’s heartening that there were so many Spanish people there to give support. The strain must be immense for that poor couple.

What I fail to understand is why they think pulling one single dwelling down will suddenly make everything OK.
Is it going to have a dramatic effect on the coastline in Marbella if Antonio Banderas has a part of his magnificent villa pulled down? There are plenty of high rise monstrosities along the coast that would improve the vista if they were demolished. The only problem is, many of them are homes of innocent people caught up in a political wrangle.

[Melosine]

Must admit I didn’t go.
Not though because I didn’t have every empathy for the Priors, who I believe have been used by the Junya soley to make a point, whilst still permitting coastlines to be eroded with tacky housing developements.

What I find most heartening is the the southern Spaniards are now getting involved . Something I believe would not have happened a few years ago.

Marbella. Too much corrupt money and political influence to do anything other than pretend to address the situation.

Wondering if AB is of a different political persuasion

[Anonymous]

What I find most heartening is the the southern Spaniards are now getting involved .

I agree Melosine, it is most heartening. When the worm turns…..!

[lifeinspain]

Mg…….. I do not disagree with you entirely. But, the Priors and others who are having their homes and life-savings stripped from them – are suffering psychologically emotionally and physically, as my husband and I are. You cannot compare the Prior’s an others’ distress to that of Antonio Banderas. Good for him he will be able to rebuild his life without too much of a hassle.

I take your point, that the higher the ‘profile’ the demolition or even partial demolition, the more newsworthy and it puts it in the faces of all. However, I still feel the junta is out on a political point scoring exercise
prior to the upcoming elections. I just wonder how this whole inhumane mess will pan out.

No offence has been taken and I do not feel people are insensitive to all those people whom this draconian action is being taken against.

[Anonymous]

Authorities gave permission for the building of a £450,000 house – despite knowing about a proposed railway line.
Now they will have the British-owned house demolished without compensation.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/global/main.jhtml;jsessionid=C5GU3ZSB1YT2VQFIQMFSFF4AVCBQ0IV0?xml=/global/2008/02/02/spain-home.xml

[Melosine]

Nothing about this in any of the local newspapers !here !!!! or on local forums. That needs addressing…. and pronto.

Did anyone watch BBC news yesterday morning?
A brief report regarding why so many Brits are leaving UK.
Interviewed a couple relocating to Cyprus and and “agent”.
For all of 10 seconds the Priors problems were mentioned and with shrugged shoulders immediately dismissed 👿

[Anonymous]

The international press has covered the issue of the Prior’s demolition in detail (sometimes wrong). They are also talking about the Turre situation where some houses were built by Brits after getting all permissions from the local ayuntamiento which failed to warn them of the exact route of the AVE, which in their case will mean expropriation and demolition. Now other stories are coming out of our area: Palomares has an illegal urbanisation with houses now at risk of demolition again. Albox also faces problems (although these are currently on the back burner) and Zurgena as well.
The Spanish press has noted these and has also delved into the politics therein. Vera (the Prior’s town) is Partido Andalucista. Zurgena is also PA. Turre was PP when the permits were issued as was Albox. Palomares (Cuevas) is PP.
Arboleas, Carboneras (remember the hotel Algarrobico) and now Albox are all PSOE and elections are coming up. On the local radio, the PSOE opposition leader for Vera pretty much said with pride that these kind of things don’t happen with towns run by his party.
The local English-language press is sometimes in a quandary: They live off advertising – often adverts from the very companies that built those ‘illegal’ homes. What to do? The Costa de Almería News, my own The New Entertainer and The Olive Press believe more or less in ‘print and be damned’. After all – we live here!
I also write it up as I see it on http://www.theentertaineronline.com

[Author]

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