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I have been watching Taylor Woodrow slash prices on all its developments and am particularly interested in the El Bosque De La Mairena with 5 units left at €173k- seems good value for money
Also I have been talking to Andalucian Dream Homes who are marketing quite stronly several developments- I like the look of Gazules Del Sol near Benahavis which have been slashed to £182k from€350k euros
Does anyone on here have any knowledge of these particular developments and estate agent or indeed recommend anything comparable
I am looking for a 2 bed 2 bath with access to jacuzzi, gym indoor pool etc
(the Taylor Woodrow one allows access to El soto clubhouse, gazules has these facilities on site)There do seem to be bargains to be had at the moment but pehaps waiting a while longer would be more prudent
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And location will always be the key! El Soto is 7-8km up the hill from the coast which means you have to drive, the benahavis one could be similar.
Do thorough research and be ready for when a good proeprty comes on the market. They are coming on all the time but the good stuff gets snapped up quickly so you need to be ready.
Good luck
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Boothy
Do your research and more research, research this site, and talk to people who know, La Mairena is beautiful but 7km up on windy roads from from the main highway, do you really want to drive up there on a dark friday night after an easyjet flight. Talk to Taylor Woodrow direct, if you buy through ADH you will 20ke worse off, BUY DIRECT IF YOU DO.
Steve V
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There’s a lot of rubbish out there at the moment and at lot of agents offering supposedly bargains etc. Some of these properties would be better demolished and no matter what price you buy in at they will never be any good – bad properties – wrong location – poorly built – lacking facilities etc.
But I would recommend Las Viñas del Golf which is part of Doña Julia Golf Resort and there is a 5 Star Grand Hyatt also being built there. All units are complete – occupation licence granted etc
These are high end apartments with luxury facilities and I believe there are still a couple remaining with discounts being offered.
See attached link http://www.evemarina.com/en/developments/andalucia/index.asp
If interested send me a PM and I will send you details who to contact for the discount. There’s no agent involved and you deal directly with the developer (Grupo Evemarina were the architects/builders but not the developer/promoter).
Personally I would always recommend by-passing agents and dealing directly with developers. Most agents will earn at least 10% on these so called bargains.
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not an agent spammer at all i had checked earlier prices for both gazules and la mairena and they have been reduced
‘slash’ is probably a bit strong i admit just looking for a good quality bargain development with the amenities mentioned would prefer closer to beach but these still seem expensive
has anyone knowledge directly of these 2 developments?
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I agree with most of you. I do not see the point of going through an agent. Large developments or developments by a large and well known developer can & should be approached directly, Offer should be made with the agents commission plus VAT as a further discount.
However, if you are buying in a well established & an all sold out development and where the property is being marketed by agent than its OK to take the route of an agent.
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no knowledge of the developments you mention.
But this link might be of some help to you if you are searching out bargain developments.
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JJB – If I understand correctly from their Bank Repossesions page they say in order to enquire about a bank repo, you must pay 10% deposit of the purchase price of the property you’re interested in and if you don’t like it this company will only return 9% back to you. If you don’t purchase anything else with them, the 1% is kept as an ‘administration fee’ just for wanting to enquire (?)
Not bad for just sitting at your computer and giving some info (am sure an agent will now correct me on that).After the 15,000+euro agent’s/sitefinder’s fee on a 48,000 euro property I read about earlier, am beginning to think these property website guys are living on another planet.
Even if I was interested in a repo. for sale at 200,000, I would not be prepared to ‘lose’ 2000 just to make an enquiry about it. -
@charlie wrote:
…………and if you don’t like it this company will only return 9% back to you.
No doubt, at the stage when the interested buyer discovers there is no LFO.
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scary stuff there doesnt seem to be a safe buy anywhere
i looked at arenal duquesa 2 years ago and prices offered were about 200k euros
i did a bit of digging and found an irish estate offering these now at 150k euros.I spoke today to the local referred spanish agent – britannia and this includes all legals!
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Charlie
You are a step ahead of me. I’m afraid I have not looked into the site in detail. I just happened to come across it at the time of replying. These are some Irish guys trying to find a niche in the market.
Katy
In answer to your point the way things are with banks at the moment there is only so far a developer can be squeezed and I know there are developers who are more than happy to deal directly. Your problem is you need to speak to them in Spansih and make sure as always you’re talking to the right person and not some intermediary or agent etc.
Boothy
In terms of bargains let’s go back a few years and remember Lada cars. They were cheap but in the long term were they really bargains. People laughed at you at the time and 2/3 years later they had no re-sale or trade in value. Many developements at the moment fall into that category. I think Mark wrote some article recently along the lines of being careful with all these bargains out there at the moment etc
Also becareful if you come on a ADH inspection trip – they make it sound good strength in number etc. Take time to talk to other agents and see what the re-sale market has to offer. Location is really important especially if you intend renting etc. Don’t be rushed – don’t hand over a deposit – get yourself an independent solicitor (that means not the one ADH introduce you to!).
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@boothy wrote:
I have been watching Taylor Woodrow slash prices on all its developments and am particularly interested in the El Bosque De La Mairena with 5 units left at €173k- seems good value for money
I hear that “only five units left” is not true.
Charlie, well-spotted, that is the strength of this forum 😀
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Talking about reduced prices, someone recently sent me a developer’s price list with what look like quite substantial reductions. I don’t know the development, but no doubt someone on this forum does. Have a look – what do you think about these prices? Do they offer good value?
Of course, prices on their own are meaningless. It all depends what you get for your money.
http://www.spanishpropertyinsight.com/temp/Senorio-marbella-reduced-pices.pdf
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Sold in El Soto
Used to get a nose bleed driving that high up the hill .
Think if I lived up there personally it would drain the little of what I have of the ole brain after a few weeks
Well there are lovely veiws and there are lovely views and there are ditto ditto
Charlie 😀
No guessing where you picked up that cold gal.( you didnt do the golf ball balloon did you.) 😯Think that looking at percentage discounts is pretty rubbish way to look at bargain prices in Spain.
Its all about what you get for your money against similar in the area.Not rocket science really same as anything you buy just compare.
Now is the time that agents will be dropping the line to catch a fishy.
Property X valued last year for 250,000 Euros and can buy now for 150,00 Euros .YEPEeeeee
1 Fact is thats that was the real value and someone got screwed.
2 Fact is that if it were that much of a bargain then it wouldnt have even have got to the point of being advertised
3 Fact is its a case of someone taking the bait and when you get out there on the ole inspection trip,suprise suprise it just been sold,( thats the old trick used by even the U.K high street E.As)
But guess what we have other bargains on our books near to the new Disney resort. 😉
Sell the dream all over again use a dodgy solicitor , caught hook line and sinker and everyone meet at the pub later to brag about the quest.
Fact is that ts still going on just on a smaller scale.
If I were that sort then think I could make some good money at the moment and just be veryvery careful with discount property sales as there is more that often no free lunch.Just Frank 8)
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@Just Frank wrote:
No guessing where you picked up that cold gal.
You’re right Frank – a nice souvenier from Devon that I can’t seem to shake off, a real humdinger……………..
@Just Frank wrote:
you didnt do the golf ball balloon did you. 😯
You must be kidding me. With pouring rain and strong gales everyday, it was hardly ballooning weather was it!
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The Señorio de Marbella development that Mark has mentioned is now priced very competitively for the location and quality.
Charlie…I’d guess that a 3 bed might be more expensive than a 4 bed due to view, or orientation?One matter that no-one has touched on yet is that even if you buy a bargain, what about the community fees you’ll have to pay every month. Just ask anyone who bought at El Soto in the past!
I wouldn’t consider any property in La Mairena because there you’ll have to get in a car to do anything except sit on your (probably North facing) terrace. If you go out for the night the Police are always sitting at the bottom of the hill breathalysing each and every driver and if you do fancy a pint it is seriously 26 bends in the road down and another 26 back up again.
Ditto up the Benahavis road there’s no infrastructure yet so it’s back in the car again for a pint of milk or a San Miguel.
Far better to go for a distress sale on a good completed, furnished unit walking distance to amenities and where the vendor’s having trouble making his/her mortgage payments.
If you’re looking for a deal ask about the running costs and ask to see proof. Email agents and ask them to forward on to you details of what they consider to be their best bargains. If you’re buying privately then tread carefully and use an independent lawyer.
Good luck.
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@charlie wrote:
Mark – What I don’t understand with this price list is how a 4 bedroomed appt. that is originally 100,000 euros more expensive than the 3 bedroomed one listed below it, then ends up being discounted to be cheaper than the 3 bedded one, despite having the extra bedroom and being more in sq. metres.
Part built and everyones rumbled its overlooking a road. Location, Location, Location blah blah blah.
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@sdodgson wrote:
If you’re looking for a deal ask about the running costs and ask to see proof. Email agents and ask them to forward on to you details of what they consider to be their best bargains. If you’re buying privately then tread carefully and use an independent lawyer.
Good luck.
Thats about choice though
I live in Aloha golf and that is still 15 minutes walk to the closest bar or shops
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I think you will find there are developer units for sale in almost every development sold since around 2004. That is when the market started to go flat, although Agents continued to talk it up.
What has happened with these developments is that the community fees are usually very high, quality of fittings etc. not as good as advertised, not such “exclusive” developments as promised.
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Community fees at Señorio de Marbella are extremely high…that’ll be the heated pool, full time security guards and the on-site loss-making restaurant, then!!
All depends, Boothy, on what you really are after.
Something to use yourself only? Something to generate realistic rental income? Somewhere tranquil or somewhere where the neighbours are likely to be groups of laddos on the lash in Banus?Best bet is to work out what you can realistically afford (and maintain on an annual basis) and then come over and see what your money gets you right now in a variety of locations. Look at both off-plan (still a bit dangerous though), completed developments with empty units from developers and re-sales. If you go with an agent then re-visit on your own and ask around – “who really does live here? How much rent do you really get per week? etc.”
Don’t believe any of the UK agent-based “distress sale reposession bargains!!!!!” emails as these tend to be a con involving a back-hander in cash to the bank/lawyer/agent. Real reposessions are sold at judicial auction and you need to have 50% of the money avilable on the day followed by 50% within 3 days following the auction.
Best bet is to purchase immediately before reposession but do sufficient due diligence to find out what community fees are owed, mortgage owed, council tax owed, managing agency fees owed (if it’s been rented out), etc. Any good agent (come on Forum, there are some left) will be able to give you a list of the vendors they know are in trouble. Most agents do chat and have coffee with the local banks and lawyers to find out what’s coming up for reposession also. They are all so quiet at the moment that it fills the time!
Once again, good luck.
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many thanks for all the advice-interesting about senorio de marbella, i was contemplating looking at it seriously! as the location and quality look excellent.How can developers agents market ‘illegal’ property and how does this affect those who have bought already?
Anyways booked with adh an inspection trip next weekend fri to sun only £99 return flights inc and accom at the Gran Hotel Benahavis
Hopefully will see a good selection
Im buying for myself, not interested in renting out i had dismissed the ‘golf’ type new devs until i saw the vid on gazules del sol, the quality of the finishes is very good and on site gym, indoor pool etc.Yes its a bit out(actually its not in benahavis, more at other side of motor way before climb near atalaya golf atleast according to google maps!)
Yes ideally i want to walk to shops etc but so difficult to find a prop that ticks all the boxes-i am interested in everyones recommendation
I am a cash buyer so hopefully can get a good deal
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In putting you up at the Gran Hotel Benahavis (which is lovely, actually and has a decent, albeit small, on-site spa) is that you’re craftily not going to be within walking distance of ANY other estate agents!!!
Might I recommend the rather good restaurant in the village called Los Habanicos and there’s another one at the entrance with a blue and white striped awning which does awesome (and good value) roast leg of lamb.
As you’re on an inspection you’ll be dropped at the hotel and you’ll have no chance to see anything that ADH don’t want you to see so your tour will be highly structured around those properties which will pay them the most money, not necessarily the properties which offer the best value or be right for your lifestyle. For 99 quid it may seem to be a cheap break but you will be put under immense pressure to buy and place a deposit…some things haven’t changed.
My advice?
If you feel you’re being “sold to” then claim food poisoning during lunch on day 2 and ask to be dropped back at the hotel. There’s plenty of agents out there who won’t put you under any pressure whatsoever. -
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the new senorio promoted by Sierra Blanca estates who have billboards all over Marbella saying “you can trust us” with pictures of Dad and the boys – ha ha ha – this last phase took five years to build and is in a ditch facing east with no sun at all (ditch was a stream)
i guess there are re sales in the first phases which are lovely albeit high service charges.as for sweetie pie agents warning you about the big agents they invariably worked for VIVA etc before being sacked – so they know the tricks. If you contact a one man band make sure they at least have an office and the requisite legals for operating in Spain. The town is teeming with agents working freelance from their cars/ mobile phones –
the conclusion that one reaches is not to believe anyone as they are all desperate and need to sell at whatever cost – reverse tactics are the new hard sell – wolves in sheeps clothing!!
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UBEDA – Who are you and what do you have against me?
You’ve now gone off-topic as far as Boothy’s original request is concerned and look to be heading straight for Mark’s “Take it outside” section if you continue on a personal rant against me as you have done before.You should really verify your information before publishing. I did not get sacked from Viva. Despite jealous female colleagues doing their best to try to get me sacked, I actually left Viva of my own accord over 3 years ago. Am also no longer a one-man band as have joined forces and merged my database of listings with Michael Moon real estate so we now have over 900 combined listings and 3 offices (4 if you want to include my own private home office, or 5 if you include the back of my X5 which UBEDA evidently thinks I work from).
Let’s not get nasty, hey UBEDA?
You’re absolutely right, having worked for one of the larger agencies I am ideally placed to comment on their tactics but if Boothy’s lucky he’ll get a really good ADH agent who listens to him and doesn’t always toe the company line and shows him exactly what will suit Boothy and his family, not just those developments which will line ADH’s pockets.I try awfully hard not to place commercial or fishing posts on this Forum, solely information. Most of the other posters would probably agree. It’s been an interesting 10 years on the Costa del Sol so far and surely I must have learnt something by now.
So ha! To change my tune, here goes a blatantly commercial post in support of the one man band agents! Well, there are some fantastic ones out there in each region of the Costa del Sol. Here’s some I could mention:
1) Holger Klauke of Trimobilia (OK, it’s him and his Mum, so a duo). Superb knowledge of Costabella and Vistamar in East Marbella.
2) Richard Silver at Libra Estates, one man band and a fountain of knowledge on Marbesa and Carib Playa.
3) Lynettee Robinson who freelances is the only person I would use for re-sales in Los Arqueros. She lives there, has done for years, knows it inside & out.So Boothy, if you do end up really liking an area then don’t be afraid to try all avenues in your research.
I hope you have a happy evening & a wonderful weekend researching the web for the Costa del Sol apartment of your dreams (with jacuzzi, gym and heated pool…better watch out for those community fees!).Sarah “Sweetie Pie” Dodgson
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Trust me.
I have worked for the biggest and you dont meet the quota yer down the road and that goes right down the line.
They play the same tricks only many trust them as they feel they gain comfort that they are made to think that they are safe hands.
One of the worst is in almost evey high street in the U.K.
All the big boys have is a better glossy mag.As is said you really have to have been there to understand the vile going ons and yes a smaller recommended agency is by far the best way to go and Mr Moons Business is fine by me.
Sdodgson. The ignorance of some just cant understand that we were all not asswipes towing the line.
Now have to say I havent found an A.D.S agent that dosent tow the line though 🙄Once set them up for a laugh
Excellent location in Elviria
Property in need of possibly 60 years oldSalesman.
This property is on ethe market for 650,000 IF ? I am quick as its not on the market yet.
If the owner i.e his client had any brain he would put a second floor on this building making it six beds which would cost and 150,000 euros.
Then it would sell no problemo for over 1 MGreat says I but surely the are two problems
1 What about planning
2 What about foundations,Salesman
I have already checked this out .YOU DONT NEED PLANNING IN SPAIN FOR PROPERTIES OVER 20 YEARS OLD and you can do whatever you wantChecked the issue on foundations and properties didnt need foundations then as the were built on hard ground with the soil being left to dry out and that means it would stand another floor no problem
What sort of stupid idiot would fall for that load of crap. 😕
Does anyone want a very unusual 6 bed property in a lovely Elviria location 😳
Planning is not a problem.! Honest 😉Just Frank 8)
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it seems difficult to access any viewings directly and hence the need for an agent and as a ‘first time buyer’ on the costa del sol one is vulnerable thats why I do appreciate the input- looking forward to that leg of lamb!
Pity about this phase of the senorio de marbella -it appears inferior to the early constructions
I always keep an open mind when looking at anything- there is a lot of pressure to make sales now but I feel this makes for a good buying opportunity
The internet is great now as knowledge is always power- within a few posts the apparent luxury and quality of senorio de marbella has faded to a rather dubious and perhaps illegal investment, in the past one could so easily have been sucked in
Its a fascinating time for everyone but fundamentally as most people point out the scenario of predators and their prey has not and never will change!
I am led to believe that that the community fees on gazules are €180 month which seems not too bad
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@boothy wrote:
it seems difficult to access any viewings directly and hence the need for an agent and as a ‘first time buyer’ on the costa del sol one is vulnerable thats why I do appreciate the input- looking forward to that leg of lamb!
Pity about this phase of the senorio de marbella -it appears inferior to the early constructions
I always keep an open mind when looking at anything- there is a lot of pressure to make sales now but I feel this makes for a good buying opportunity
The internet is great now as knowledge is always power- within a few posts the apparent luxury and quality of senorio de marbella has faded to a rather dubious and perhaps illegal investment, in the past one could so easily have been sucked in
Its a fascinating time for everyone but fundamentally as most people point out the scenario of predators and their prey has not and never will change!
I am led to believe that that the community fees on gazules are €180 month which seems not too bad
I had a very short stint at ADH to realise I wasn unemployable after 15 years of being self employed. if you want to use ADH that is your choice but I wouldnt recommend them to anybody myslef.
I really like Gazules del Sol but some people think the real value is in resales but property is all about opinions. For what its worth if you were going to buy a new property I dont think you could beat the value at Gazules del Sol if your happy with location and as I said to Sarah who is a very good person its all about personal choice.
If you have any specific questions about Gazules del sol ask them on this site and the people that really know the development will try to give you an honest answer about it but always remember it is only somebody’s opinion and you should decide at the end of the day
Good luck for the future
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thanks- ref Gazules Del Sol
1.Where exactly is it- in Benahavis or further down towards coast
2.It is a ghost town or are there residents
3.Is the developer skimping at present ie are some amenities eg indoor pool, gym not operable
4.Are there any shops within walking distance
5.What are the community fees really
6. Is sky and adsl feasible
7.Show apt looks nice how much realistic to furnish to a comparable standard
8.Is the development legal?
9.Will the community fail unless a certain no of additional buyers are found
is anyone on this board a resident at Gazules
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1 its not really in Benahavis its a 3-5 minute drive from the Benahavis turn off on the A-7 and is located on the first roundabout that says Benahavis, in reality its beween Atalaya and Alqueria golf.
2 Its a property development so besides the people you meet in the gym you will have a 5 minute drive to for your social activities. The good thing is once you get in the car there is a lot of choice within 10 minutes drive.
3 The Developer in Union Seis in Malaga and no it is a top quality devlopment and when you see the quality you will find it hard to say no (just my opinion)
4 No unless you want to walk 20 minutes
5 arount 180 euros a month for a standard 2 bed
6 Yes
7 Show flats always look good thats what they are there for however the quality is very good and I know its hard you just have to try and imagine the apartment without furniture. If you PM me I would be happy to email you all the photos I have (about 40).
8 Yes
9 This is really very subjective and about a personal opinion, But I dont think it will fail, with the price reduction and also the plans to sell blocks to investors they have a much better chance of making the community work than most. Its only an opinion and some may have a different view to mine.Anyway its time for my bed didnt realise what the time was
Anyway this is just my personal view as property is all about opinions I hope my input helped and be interesting to see other peoples views on this as well
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I saw on Place in the Sun last night that estate agents in Portugal are supposed to be registered with the Portuguese Gov’t although 20% are not registered, so probably crooks.
Why don’t the Spanish Gov’t adopt the same tactic and force agents to register with them?
It’s patently clear that registering with AIPP, FOPDAC and other Mickey Mouse Associations offer no protection whatsoever despite their claims, since they accept registrations from many of the crooks. 😥
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Not being an Agent I have not seen these properties. I have seen them advertised with a rental guarantee(which you will pay for in the purchase price, and even then may not get it!) Are they the ones that can be seen from the Toll road? If so your main view will be of the Toll road.
Personally I don’t rate the area, not exactly location, location. Look like the bog standard 2/2. If you want to go anywhere the Road is snarled up almost 24/7 in summer (they are supposed to be building a tunnel next year. And have been for the last 10!). The ad’ I saw said 5 mins to Banus which is a joke 🙄
Your question will the place be a ghost town….YES except for July and August.
For those prices you could get a resale in a good location though I doubt you will see any with ADH.
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They never have or ever wanted resales
To much work and not enough commission though I hear they have ways to make this up.
A.D.H . What do you want for your property 300.000 Euros?
Seller 300,000 Euros if thats what you are saying then I acceptAdvertised at 380.00 and if they get the sale at that price remember the seller said they wanted 300,000 and thats the deal and thats what they get.
Now the seller may have paid say 320,000 Euros so guess who the only winner is
Just Frank 8)
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@Just Frank wrote:
They never have or ever wanted resales
To much work and not enough commission though I hear they have ways to make this up.
A.D.H . What do you want for your property 300.000 Euros?
Seller 300,000 Euros if thats what you are saying then I acceptAdvertised at 380.00 and if they get the sale at that price remember the seller said they wanted 300,000 and thats the deal and thats what they get.
Now the seller may have paid say 320,000 Euros so guess who the only winner is
Just Frank 8)
I dont know if you saw the email they sent out for there superduper must buy weekend, basically it was misleading at best
They said that if 5 of them bought they could get 10% more off the price of 260k when in fact the units were already selling for 230k due the promotion the promoter was doing for the month of November, the old ADH slogan of underpromise and over deliver. To be fair they were never that blatant when I was there but desperate times bring desperate measures
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Boothy, Gazules is a pretty good bet to me; as long as you don’t over pay – you’ll have to beat them down (with or without your tax paying licensed agent) to a market related price. Make the agents show you comparables so you have ammunition. Los Arqueros are not quite as good but their prices (everything there is for sale) will guide you well.
There is a new and additional link road between the benahavis rd and the Ronda road which should be opened in 2009 making the place more accessible.
if they don’t accept your offer walk away and tell them to contact you when they are ready to talk sense: also, don’t believe them (any developer) when they show you the price list with most units sold – good luck and beware of the hungry wolves looking for little red riding hoods!!
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“if you want to use ADH that is your choice but I wouldn’t recommend them to anybody myself “
Agree 100%.
“Why don’t the Spanish Govt adopt the same tactic and force agents to register with them? “
No system in any country will work until unless the people respect & accept it in good faith. Further there has to be a proper, efficient, transparent & timely action to be taken by the authorities if there is misuse or implementation.
I personally feel that there are various legislation’s, bodies, department, colleges etc that exist. If they implement the guidelines/legislation’s we don’t need another body where jobs will be created for the boys with no sense of professionalism or consciousness of duty understanding as to why the particular law enacted.
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nick very kindly sent me some detailed high res photos and it is quite a stunning development in terms of build and amenities. the indoor pool is beautiful
i do accept its a bit out of the way although the grounds are extensive and almost a mini village in its own right
tel me where else will i get this kind of quality and amenities for £186kstg?
indoor pool, gym, home domotics, air con hot/cold ivory/cream marble, double glazed,electric shutters, pre installation bang/olufsen sound, 4 outdoor pools,porcelona sanitary ware, mixer taps, etc etc , beautiful gardens, 24 hr security cctv, community fees 180 euros/mth?im not bothered about no one being there my only concern is that the amenities are maintained by the developer whilst it fills up
its certainly stuning looking at the moment
resales seem to be mostly tired 20 year old properties
can anyone recommend a better value for money development?
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Warning ❗ A D&G post.
Gazules del Sol sounds wonderful, almost too good to be true, and you know the saying……… 😉
Many of us were sold the dream, wonderful spec promised, only to see it all go down the pan, not what the glossy brochure showed or the agent promised. I would not recommend anyone sign up for anything that is not completely finished with all legals in place.
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im the most sceptical person u can imagine
so will tread with caution
overlooking road?
thers 170 apts with different views, the coast is in the distance of course
as far as promises go this is not off plan? it exists and is finished
so i can see wat im getting surely?
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Well I have just looked and listened to the video boothy.
Am not trying to pick holes just warn you that these companies use devious methods .
” pre installation bang/olufsen sound”
Pre installation of anything in Spain means all they have done is put the wiring in…you want Bang and Olufsen an entry phone or alarm that is going to cost extra
They also stated only the ceramics in the bathroom and kitchen are from Porcelanosa . It’s an old ploy to make a client believe all the units and fittings are therefore either by the same maker or of a similar quality…so check them thoroughly for the brand names which will be there if they are the quality they say.
Have no idea re investment just hope for your sake that it is legal otherwise you will be burning your hand as well as the 200,000k.
Good luck -
Good morning Boothy
Glad to see other agents and posters have stopped doing so much agent-bashing and got on with providing some reasonable advice!
Here are the contact details for the owners of the development Gazules del Sol:
Gulf Finance House B.S.C.
P.O. Box 10006
Manama, Kingdom of Bahrain
Tel +973 17 538 538
Fax +973 17 540 006E-mail: info@gfhouse.com
http://www.gfhouse.comI can see why they are able to discount the units so heavily as they were built completely with cash, no leverage. The backers are no fools and are following superb guidelines for disposing of excess stock right now – cut your 2005 prices by at least 30% or you won’t sell a thing.
Construction quality is OK, external finish, as always in Spain, a little shabby – checkout the plasterwork on the terrace photos on the Spanish Hot Properties site.
Units will face in all manner of different directions. Professionally my recommendation would be to not buy East facing as these will be looking over the road and in the future will prove harder to sell, so a false economy in the long run.
Go talk to the other developers in the immediate area such as Erasur (Benatalaya) and Marques de Atalaya + look online for finished units in Conde de Luque for comparable prices. Frankly, I don’t know of anyone selling as cheaply as 180k sterling. The cheapest I could show you would be a ground floor front line golf unit in Benatalaya fully furnished for 279.000 euros.
From memory, the Swiss Kunz brothers have a few good re-sale units in Gazules and they live on-site: Talk to Markus Kunz
care4home-spain S.L.
Ctra. San Pedro a Benahavis
Urbanisation “Gazules del Sol”
rotonda Ctra. Alquera
29679 BenahavisTel: +34 952 852 245
Tel: +34 951 272 783
Fax: +34 951 239 131
Mobile: +34 646 843 111
info@care4home.comHope this all helps.
Kind regards
Sarah Dodgson
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My advice is not to use ADH, three years ago we made the mistake of using them to look for a resale property. From the start it was obvious the agent was only interested in selling new off-plan properties in the middle of nowhere. They totally disregarding the area we were interested in and we could not get away quick enough they made a few hours seem like a lifetime.
My idea of hell would be being stuck with one of their dumb agents for a whole weekend, with no means of escape, I wish you luck take your time the property will still be there next week and the week after. -
again many thanks for all the useful advice
havent made up my mind at all just in all my searching on net over last few weeks was unable to find such a comprehensive package for the price
Naturally will thoroughly check it out on the ground.GIven all the concerns I think I will email the agent in advance of the viewing trip and request the following information
1.Copy of habitation licence, building licences etc, planning permission
2.Breakdown of units sold/remaining units-ideally map
3.Sales in progress and references from anyone who has bought already -
The reason these units have been so heavily discounted is that from what I understand is that an Irish investor bought 100 units off plan and failed to complete and therefore they have apportioned the money he lost on all the units. I have no idea if this is true or not. but it makes a lot of sense.
Ive actually been to the development and met with Markus and Daniel and its vey good and anyone who visited the site would find it hard not to be impressed. If you want a newly built property with top qualities and you are happy with the area then personally it represents very good value and I havent seen anything that compares that is brand new. Obviously there are fantastic deals on resales etc.
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Like an Investor is going to reserve 100 units in that place 😆 Could have set themselves up as a developer for less. Think that one should be placed under the rumours file along with the celebs that are buying and Disneyworld 😆
I still have the feeling that this is a spammers topic. Ok. I am a cynic but it has a feel to it. What have we gleaned from all this:
ADH have 99 pounds inspection flights in a fairly decent hotel, they have some discounted(?) apartments. They have 4 pools (so they should for all those units). Good marketing, nicely furnished show flat…probably a penthouse with decent view…not the 180,000 one. Sounds as if the marketing manager has plagarised the bumff from La reserva de Marbella…pools, waterfalls ja ja. It’s a bog standard 2/2 🙄
So, everything seems better than those “tired” resales on sale. Then there is the pre.installed Bang&oulfsen, the mentioned brand names that MAY be those or something similar (yeah, like the kitchen stuff Paco is knocking up in the Industrial estate). Then we have all those agents coming out of the woodwork, bit like when a crumb is dropped in the kitchen and is rapidly surrounded by Ants!!
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does reserva have indoor pool/gym?
ill report back next week-all i was seeking from the site was advice ref the apparent value for money compared to other developments and no one has pointed to anything better
the net is full of disinformation of course and hence the need for an inspection visit, at £99 this seems quite reasonable
Are there any independent agents really?
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Oh Boy 😯
Gym ERrrrr , Nope
Cascading . Streams flowing into luxury pools. ERrrr Nope
Luxury Pools . ERrrrr. Nope
Luxury Apartments .ERrrrr Nope
Legals MMmmm. Nope
Lovely Gardens . Sorry no again
High Security No again I am afraid
Garden Apartments with promised gardens. Not always
Lovely plantation. Nope dead
Luxury pool showers. Having a laugh 😯
Jaccuzzis.. Yep plasic water tanks sunk in the floor and groups get together in them and have a farting contest.
Swimming pools sinking . Yep
Dog s–t everywhere.Yep
Dumped cars. Yep
Pikeys. Yep.
NO ONE HAS POINTED TO ANYTHING BETTER
YEeeerr .Dont recall may pointing to much worse in this area.That reminds me. Its a pretty good area.
Just Dan
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Not the only one Suzanne.
Although a bit slow, after watching the video, I started thinking there was something a trifle odd about this posting from boothy. And now the satelite photo!
Plus if I had 200k “burning a hole” in my pocket I certainly wouldn’t be advertising the fact on a property website.
Hard times call for devious methods -
seems sceptism has set in i am genuinely interested in buying here and theres been more negative comments than positive ones so much so that i guess most people are now put off the development -not a great strategy to throw it open to a public forum if i was trying to win publicity for it
poor old adh have taken a battering too!
disclosing a budget of 200k is to get a like for like comparison only
perhaps its a double bluff and im a competitor of adhs and have now succeeded in getting them bad mouthed in public plus killed off the development in the process
you never really know with the net 😀
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ref the senorio de marbella development mentioned by mark earlier i found this resale , presume its in the first legal phase?
http://www.panorama.es/properties/details/ref/R112-06124#picture
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Just in Boothy`s defence if he has some in with ADH why would he promote another companies website that is selling the same project?
However the quote poor old ADH really did take the buscuit.
My only problem with threads like this is that some people dismiss things out of hand without having seen them for themselves.
I certainly didnt want to help get ADH a sale but I posted my opinions on here in good faith.
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thanks nick of course i am a genuine buyer, not an agent or agent flunky
all i sought was information but there seems to a lot of bitterness about which isnt good for the public or the profession
everyone has bad experiences sometimes in dealing with people, but property is property and all i was looking for was facts about what appeared to be a good value for development.
I have no qualms about using ADH, until I have personal experience which proves otherwise, I always take others opinions with a pinch of salt
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I have no qualms about using ADH, until I have personal experience which proves otherwise, I always take others opinions with a pinch of salt
The question one has to ask will certain companies be totally honest and ethical and tell you the complete truth even if it means losing a sale. Unfortunately the more ethical agents some of who post on here are poorer by comparison because they are ethical and believe in looking after there clients but at least they can sleep at night.
Anyway if anyone decides to use ADH I would very strongly suggest they use an independent lawyer and not the one they give you.
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boothy
in my experience on this forum, (years) people ‘talking up’ developments or agents are often proved to be the ones who’s opinions need ‘taking with a pinch of salt’. They often have a motive, like being an agent of some sort, or desperate to sell, or just hurt pride not letting them accept the ugly truth.
most regulars on here who criticise certain developments or agents have i’ve found been right when i’ve researched further, desite often being labelled ‘doom mongers’ by some. Some of them have won their cases, or started petitions for people to share their horror stories. I think you make a mistake if you take these peoples opinions (often facts) with a pinch of salt.
the fact there is more negative than positive opinions is sadly a reflection on the sorry state of the Spanish property market i feel. There are obviously many people who are happy with their Spanish purchase, (some say the majority?), who don’t post because they have nothing to grumble about, but allowing that opinion to cloud the truth about how bad things can be is i feel making a big mistake.
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can anyone recommend good independent lawyers?
btw i must have registered interestb also with simplyviva and they too are marketing gazules- their brochure says ‘all licences in place’ and this is backed up with what nick has said
naturally a lawyer will check this out-i am pushing ADH for copies of all these licences now so not to waste time, the nota simple can be ordered online, community debts- its a new development
anything else to catch me out?
i presume it is not an ‘illegal as such’ since i cant find it on marks black list for marbella, is the urbanisation classified for residential?
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You came on here and said you wanted advice. When it was given you accuse posters of being “bitter”. There have been many people posting for advice, some haven’t taken it, some have. But, this is a first for someone to spend so much time defending a development they have never seen!
Reported in the Spanish press today that 20,000 units finished or about to be finished do not have a buyer (Málaga province) so lots to choose from. 😆
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ADH is another one of those agents that I wouldn’t trust with a bargepole, their sales tactics are no better than Ocean and others, and, their commission built into the price is far too high and means they make the profit that the purchaser should, especially on off-plans.
Most larger agents on the Costas are pocketing prospective profit (in commissions) at the expense of purchasers who once they pay completion costs are actually left in negative equity in the current market.
If they then want to sell it’s the owners who always lose out.
Ask for proof in writing of the agents commission which is in the price, see how many will volunteer this. 😉
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@shakeel wrote:
Katy, only 20,000 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I think they are refering to recent completions, or they are up to their usual figure massaging 😆
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Simply Viva and ADH Interesting obviously the two most professional and ethical estate agents on the Coast.
Also had lunch with my lawyer last week its her opinion that the 3 day selling cycle used by Ocean, Viva and ADH could actually be illegal under Spanish law but will never get tested but thats for another thread another time
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Have to say I don’t trust any Agents. Not because I think they are all crooks, but large or small they are trying to sell something. Similar to when you go to buy a new kitchen or something, they tell porkies…but I expect that. Never trusted UK estate agents either. We have been fortunate to buy our last two properties privately, but have the advantage of being on the spot. The mistake many make is to treat the agents as their new best friend. When we have used Agents I find it wiser not to latch onto one, just tell them which you are interested in viewing and then move on to another.
When we have sold we have always used Viva and they were very professional. One of their Managers was one of the nicest Guys I have met here…but then I was on the other side of the fence 😉
What I do find appalling is the Agents who have listed, and knowingly sold illegal properties.
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The thing that gets me is why you would go on €120 euro discovery weekend saving yourself a few hunderd pounds when your about to spend €200,000 or more on a Spanish property. Surely its a false economy of major proportions. You would be better off being in control yourself.
Whilst there are still people looking for a great deal and being enticed in to such promotions companies such as Viva and Adh will still flourish.
There is no such thing as a free lunch IMO
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Nick – I totally agree with you.
Admittedly it was back in 2003 but we flew over on the Friday night (£60 return fare I think), having found ourselves a beautiful little b&b just off Orange Square, Marbella, £30 per night.
We had set up via the internet appointments with four different agents, one each morning, one each afternoon for the Sat and Sun to show us two properties each i.e. 8 in total for the weekend that WE had chosen from their websites. Two agents from large firms, two small independent ones. Each agent met us and dropped us off at our B&B, all pre-arranged and agreed. Each agent’s properties were in a different area so we could begin to get a feel for the different locations.The agent on the Sunday afternoon even kindly picked us up with our luggage before the afternoon’s viewings and dropped us at the airport when we had finished. An absolute gent and I don’t mind saying it was VIVA.
Nothing beats being independent, it needn’t cost a lot – and it doesn’t hurt to let these agents know that you are seeing others. Also was so nice to be staying in the heart of Marbella to enjoy the various restaurants as against being stuck out in the boonies somewhere.
Anyway, boothy, wish you good luck in your search but you may consider doing it differently on your next visit. Oh, and leave your credit card at home!
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yes i could have arranged to do this differently but adh are offering properties that other agents have on their books too ? ek gazules del sol, el bosque de la mairena
are there prices different- errrrrrrrrrrr no same price on all the websites
will other agents push for a sale- errrrrrrrrrrr yes they have to live too
do i need a lawyer in both scenarios yes
what is the difficulty with adh- lying? why do you use a solicitor
inspection trips are a good turnkey method of viewing a sample albeit biased perhaps but im only seeing the stuff i want to
i went to lanzarote last year to buy and selected 3/4 and they all had the same props , cordinating the viewings was a nightmare and i ended up with 3/4 conflicting reports on the same property!
an agent is like a guide in my opinion, his views are ultimately personal but not relevant to me
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Errrrrrrrrrrr……..boothy, I think thou does protest too much.
You failed that ‘credibility test’ miserably. 🙂
You haven’t listened to/heeded/accepted/acknowledged one single offer of advice/suggestion since you started this thread.
This ‘know-it-all’ attitude definitely smacks of jack-the-lad agent, especially reading about your apparent inability to “co-ordinate viewings” properly. :roll:……which is why we did all the arranging of appts. ourselves – successfully.Anyway, keep plugging away re. advocating the benefits of an ADH inspection trip, at least it gives some of the ADH staff the chance for a ‘jollie’.
And no, all eight properties/areas we wanted to view were not available with just one agent.
In one respect, it would have made it easier for us if they had been………errrrrrrrrr. 😆 -
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speaking of jollies i arrive malaga airport from belfast at 11am friday
id love to meet up with any other agents on the board during my stay at the gran hotel over the weekend for an alternative view/prices
my mobile is +447715174590
quite an insult being called an agent really! unless you mean secret agent!
all these free positive publicity has won me extra discount thanks!
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So, to play it your way…….
And if “any other agents on the board” have some properties of interest, then what? You’ll just have to come out all over again to view because don’t think ADH will let go of you for a minute. Economics not your best subject?…..as with your “viewing co-ordination” ability?
Is the extra discount on the trip or the develpment? Either way, they’re certainly playing you well to make you feel so ‘fortunate’. I feel a sale coming on for one ‘lucky man from Belfast’.
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yeh a degree in economics and a chartered accountancy qualification to boot!
so im a tight b………..d
i would love another agent to show me el bosque de la mairena cheaper than 170k euros or gazules del sol at 180kstg
if you can- cheque in full over the weekend!
whats the difference in viewing the same property with different agents- how much it actually costs you to do so and at £99 its a bargain!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Morning Boothy
I may incur the wrath of the Forum with my next comments…..
Let me ask you this: did you get introduced to Gazules del Sol by ADH? If this is so, and no other agent had suggested it to you as an option, then surely they should be given the chance to show you the development.
Yes, I have given you the direct contact details of the on-site team and the actual owner of the units you’ll be seeing. You could go directly to them, bypass ADH and get yourself the best deal.But would this be fair? After all, ADH spend a fortune on websites, office networks and Google campaigns in order to attract your attention. If they’ve listened to what you wanted and this development is the best they can offer then you should really give them a chance.
Sorry Forum but fair’s fair. How would you feel if you were an agent in the UK and had spent all that money and time photographing and listing a house, advertising it on your website then some client went and knocked on the door directly? Pretty pissed off, wouldn’t you?
How does it work on the coast – well, most agents will try to register their client with a developer prior to bringng them over to the site for a scheduled appointment. In this case it is possible that shoud you try to go with another agent to Gazules then they may already have you registered as an ADH client and refuse to deal with this second agent. All depends on the developer.
As I said in a previous post, the service you will receive from ADH totally depends on the salesperson you are given. For 99£ see how well they do and if you’re uncomfortable with the service you are getting then I’m around this coming weekend and free for a chat.
Not for a minute do I believe you’re a spammer or an agent.
Kind regards
Sarah Dodgson -
Boothy, I can almost feel ADH’s hooks reeling you in so good luck to you, remember what you buy will be worth a lot less once you’ve purchased and ADH will be the winners.
This is a rapidly falling market, though they won’t tell you so, check the figures on the topic ‘Spanish negative Equity – the Easy Way’
😉
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i spotted the property on the net myself by typing the development into google and up popped adh.
no idea at that stage that you could go direct etc and my spanish is awful so left my contact details on their website
They phoned me and told me about the £99 deal- thought great way to see some property at little cost.I have no idea whether any agent is better than any other, what impressed me was the vid ie quality of fiitings and when i last looked properties like this were dearer 1-2 years ago
May not have reached the bottom yet i know and i will asssess how quickly it s filling up- i believe only 10% sold at this stage
Ethics v economics, the latter is more important to me- sometimes it takes a thief to catch a thief 😀
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I am sorry but I think this whole thread is a WIND UP !!!!!!
For what reason !!!!!
Who cares
😈
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These cheap inspection trips end up being paid for by the purchasers in the end, when they sign on the dotted line to the overpriced properties they are expected to view.
Mind you I have to admit to going on one with ADH once and not buying a thing, much to their dismay, basically I ended up using it as a free exercise, but they were telling a lot of porkies too about the market so I don’t feel guilty. Naughty me! 😉
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@Paul wrote:
These cheap inspection trips end up being paid for by the purchasers in the end….
EXACTLY……..but when the punters think “at £99 its a bargain!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!” let them enjoy the misguided satisfaction.
Their first ‘hit’ of making a good deal in Spain. 🙄 -
@charlie wrote:
@Paul wrote:
These cheap inspection trips end up being paid for by the purchasers in the end….
EXACTLY……..but when the punters think “at £99 its a bargain!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!” let them enjoy the misguided satisfaction.
Their first ‘hit’ of making a good deal in Spain. 🙄Exactly
The thing is what we talked about the other day that if you buy Im sure another agent would pay all your expenses and more.
It really is a false economy and only really costs you money if you dont buy
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not good today euro at .84 😯
you are all better placed than me but does this rate make a big difference as i imagine euroland makes up most of sales anyway without stg ex rate being a factor
good news though about int rates having a tracker on my home mortgage ive watched it reduce by 1/3!
have to admit though watching girls aloud tonite on sky that geordie accent of cheryls puts it all in perspective!!
it reminds me a bit of spanish property somehow- beautiful exterior, all dolled up ,initially very inviting. but expensive maintenance and a potential ugly/difficult side when looked at in the cold light of day 😀
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Boothy: enjoy the reduction in your mortgage payment as you wont see further reduction. The Banks will start applying the collar ( a % rate below they will not reduce most large lenders have this at 3%.
Due to the collar any further reduction expected in December will not be passed on.
Don’t shoot the messenger.
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as a past property developer myself here in northern ireland selling apartment complexes and townhouses i found that agents were always needed as a buffer between the developer and joe public
most peeps need an agent if only to present, exhibit etc and they do do work
so was happy to pay their commission as the hassle involved was well worth it
agents are staffed with the girl next door, keen young guys with polytec degrees and the public generally like them
developers are boring hard nosed businessmen and crap at marketing
new developments need sellling skills , back home its different to the costa del sol -we have crap weather and all the pubs are within walking distance!
we have seen a massive reduction in sales transactions back home as elsewhere in uk
my colleagues and I have been spending the last year on developing software which eliminates the agent and lets sellers sell directly on the net with realtime interactive bidding ala ebay (timers etc)
in these hard times for only £49.99 we are developing a model which saves a fortune in commission and gets a sale!
please pm for more details if interested
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@boothy wrote:
as a past property developer myself here in northern ireland selling apartment complexes and townhouses……
@boothy wrote:
Ethics v economics, the latter is more important to me
@sdodgson wrote:
…… if you’re uncomfortable with the service you are getting then I’m around this coming weekend and free for a chat.
Suggest you watch your back, Sarah!
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@boothy wrote:
…in these hard times for only £49.99 we are developing a model which saves a fortune in commission and gets a sale!
It’s obviously sprinkled with that lucky Irish ‘magic dust’. 😆
Any guarantees with that boothy e.g. no sale, no fee?Think after all this time you’ve been posting on the wrong thread. We have one just for you – it’s called “It’s the Weekend – time for some humour”.
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the software is more geared up for resales and mimics the real life process of making offers etc, the difference being there is no agent intermediary
its ideal for direct, selling theres no fee at all unless you buy the enquiry information ie the details of the various bidders , you get background on them and can choose who you wish to proceed with, alternatively you can extend the auction or cancel at no cost
probably suits resales better at the moment although i can see developers getting on board eventually
like most things the net is set to replace the physical world in many ways and this is just another step in that direction
a set pre-auction viewing window is established to see the property
might be agreat tool to stimulate sales in spain as i know some vendors are desparate for offers
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Your £99 trip could be ideal then. Approach the developers of the two places ‘you’re interested in’, they may sign up – perhaps offer you a free appartment in the process per x-amount of resulting sales!
As your economics are more important to you than your ethics, am sure you will have no problem going behind ADH’s back to seal the deal. -
@boothy wrote:
the software is more geared up for resales and mimics the real life process of making offers etc, the difference being there is no agent intermediary
might be agreat tool to stimulate sales in spain as i know some vendors are desparate for offersI am bit puzzled now. Did you start this thread in order to eventually advertise your product?
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@boothy wrote:
i spotted the property on the net myself by typing the development into google and up popped adh.
well i’ve just tried to find the adh site under both serach terms on google.com/.es/.co.uk and adh did not come up at any time on the first 3 pages.
@boothy wrote:
i would love another agent to show me el bosque de la mairena cheaper than 170k euros or gazules del sol at 180kstg
well adh, according to their website, have got a bargain there €233,100
Reduced from €347,800!!!!! -
its on page 3 theres a youtube vid by dream homes worldwide and this led me to adh
i started the thread to fish for bargain properties and opinions on my initial selection- im going to buy next year for sure
the selling software is incidental to the thread really but of course whilst im out there i can evaluate its potential in the spanish market
we will be testing it in n ireland initially only
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An absolute disgrace debasing what is normally a superb site for buyers/ sellers and those interested in Spanish property!! – a lesson for sdgodson in handing over vendors details knowing that Boothy had supposedly been introduced by ADH… whilst not an agent there is a saying “buyers are liars” and that agents that try to scupper others sales will pay a price!! –
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Typing in “gazules del sol” into Google produces the Bahrain investment company which owns a chunk of the units and is now re-selling through the Kunz brothers.
However, this is Google in Spain. I’m not in Northern Ireland but if I was then the results may differ.
UBEDA – have I learnt a lesson?
Er, no. Was simply trying to stir things up a little in order to get Boothy to show his true colours so that if any of us ran into him we would know what type of “buyer” we were dealing with.
Nuff said? Would you like to stop sdodgson-bashing for now? When are you going to fess-up with your real name instead of being a coward hiding behind 5 initials?Personally I think this particular Forum topic has been a fascinating insight into the mindset of particular contributors. Suspicion running rampant, slandering left right and centre, agent-bashing and on the flip-side there’s been information conveyance and feedback. A jolly good mix of what a Forum is supposed to be!
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“i started the thread to fish for bargain properties and opinions on my initial selection- im going to buy next year for sure “
Aha!
Apparently the Gazules del Sol 37% discounts are only available until the end of November. Do you think some urgency may be being created to buy this year then?Have a happy Sunday all.
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@boothy wrote:
thought the finishes were excellent inside and you can walk to la cala beach etc very close to airport comm fees low and good discounts on original sales show me something this close to beach brand new 2 bed 2 bath large terrace for 200k stg
i’m familiar with the development.
it is quite nice and the show flat is nice.the walk to the beach is a bit inconvenient, but quite doable. takes about 20 minutes.
Both the pools are not well located in the development, but that would only put some off.The apartment layout is very generic, standard are good though.
The development infront, although slightly lower qualities, is substantially cheaper.
When the greenzone is don (if ever) the views will be attractive aswell.
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when i came home the euphoria of buying disappears and reality checks
the development views are not great at the moment, wasteland and part comm site construction
my friends and relatives didnt like either
back to drawing board-open to any suggestions inc resales now
budget 200k sterling preferably beachside or walking distance, not as far down as manilva
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Hi boothy,
I have read all the postings here regarding various developments etc. Here is my 5 cents worth:
-Buy as close to the beachside as possible within your budget
-Do NOT buy an east/north facing property
-Buy as close to Marbella as possibleIt goes without saying that the property should be legal etc. etc., but if you can find a property within your budget that satisfies all of the three items I have listed, you pretty much can´t go wrong. Of course it isn´t going to be easy within your budget (especially in the Marbella postcode), but the impossible sometimes does happen!
Forget about all the “up the hill” scenarios…they are hundreds of them for sale and they are cheap for a reason.
Good Luck!
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sales in costa del sol down 89%!
should be some bargains next year i feel-i agree would like to be near marbella, the alcazaba in puerto banus ticks a lot of boxes but is very expensive/m2
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Sales are definitely down, but keep in mind also that probably 70% of the people buying down here were “cost driven” i.e. buying a property only because it suited their budget, regardless of whether the property itself was essentially a good buy or not (this was helped massively by false assurances from certain agents of course). You will still struggle to find “cheap” beachside properties that are any good, especially in upmarket locations.
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