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My first post on here so firstly hello everybody.
I have been a frequent visitor to the site and found it a useful source of information and also an enjoyable place to read well informed opinions. I think of late it’s become a site dominated by too many unreasoned comments and quite frankly ridiculous comments. Too many people seem to either hate Spain with a passion (victims of really bad experiences?) or they love it to death and nothing is wrong (estate agents?).
Anyway, I thought I would start a debate and hopefully we can have some constructive opinions.
The subject is buying off plan. My views are as follows:-
When buying off plan you are not buying a property. You can not see what your buying, you can not touch it, it simply does not exist.
What you are doing is entering into a contract with a builder.The builder is promossing to build you a property. He shows you some plans, some pictures and maybe a model of what he plans to do. He agrees to hand over a finished property in 1-2 years time and agrees to fix the final price on the day you buy it. This price is usualy below the price of a finished and existing property.
For your part, you like the sound of getting a property at below the current market price and if prices increase (as they were doing until recently) you might even be able to sell the contract on and make some money.
Now, if everything goes to plan this is a no brainer. Anybody wanting to buy a property for their own use would be able to buy at below market value (the only downside is that they would have to wait for it to be built) and anybody looking for an investment would be able to sell before completion and make a profit.
Unfortunately life is not this simple and there are no such things as no brainers when it comes to purchasing things like property. What you are doing is taking a risk in order to achieve a benefit and the risks are:-
1. The builder may not be very good and may not complete the property and surrounding urbanisation to a very good standard.
2. The builder may skimp on some of the features that he promises.
3. The builder may go bust and not even finish the property.
4. Prices may not continue to rise. In fact we may see a property slump with prices going down.
5. The builder may not have the necessary licences and permissions to build.
6. The finance that the builder or estate agent said you could get may not be available when the property completes.
7. The piece of land in front of your property may also get built on obscuring your view of the sea.
8. The nice man from the estate agency who you have know for 24 hours may not be telling you the whole truth.
9. The lawyer that the above nice man recommended may not be a very good or a very independent lawyer.I could probably think of more risks but my point is buying off plan is an investment decision and investments always carry some form of risk. Without being too harsh, one could ask the question to anybody that has bought off plan – “why did you not buy a property that actually existed and that you could see and actualy go into”.
Some people have made money buying off plan (investing) and some people have lost. That’s the way it goes.
What is my point on all of this? I don’t really know. I was just thinking to myself today about all the publicity about Spain and the problems that off plan purchasers had, and asking myself the question what do I think?
I came to the conclusion that I don’t really care. I am not jelous of the people that made money and I don’t feel that sorry for people who have lost. They all took a risk ad some won and some lost.Then I thought I’d throw it out to the forum to see is anybody else has an opinion.
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😆 😆 😆
Frank – listen to me. Trust me.
To get away with a new identity you really must change your phraseology and sort your spellling out…..….but we have missed ya!
Hinge and Bracket just don’t have the same ‘kick a***’ effect that you have somehow.
They just keep rambling on about chocolate logs etc. I’ve had enough of dillusional economists and grumpy old men from Surrey 🙁 -
😆 😆 😆
Frank – listen to me. Trust me.
To get away with a new identity you really must change your phraseology and sort your spellling out…..….but we have missed ya!
Hinge and Bracket just don’t have the same ‘kick a***’ effect that you have somehow.
They just keep rambling on about chocolate logs etc. I’ve had enough of dillusional economists and grumpy old men from Surrey 🙁 -
Oh dear this is really sad.
I don’t pay enough attaention to who is saying what on this forum and really don’t know who Frank is other than I have heard his name mentioned in vain recently.I am genuinely somebody living in Spain and I suppose with enough time on my hands to look at forums such as this and enter into interesting debate. Comments such as those I have received are killing this board.
I tell you what – why don’t we meet up and discuss over a coffe/beer. I live in Marbella but if you are within, lets say an hour travelling I will meet you somewhere convenient.
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Oh dear this is really sad.
I don’t pay enough attaention to who is saying what on this forum and really don’t know who Frank is other than I have heard his name mentioned in vain recently.I am genuinely somebody living in Spain and I suppose with enough time on my hands to look at forums such as this and enter into interesting debate. Comments such as those I have received are killing this board.
I tell you what – why don’t we meet up and discuss over a coffe/beer. I live in Marbella but if you are within, lets say an hour travelling I will meet you somewhere convenient.
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😆 Soooo definitely Frank! Computer got no “spell check” Frank? Writing a long spiel about buying “off-plan” is several years too late buddy! That boat left long ago.
You’re kidding surely Charlie……missing Frank?? 😯 😯 😯 How can you when you’ve got the lovely “Hinge and Brackett”..sorry.. “Hinge & Thornton”? -
😆 Soooo definitely Frank! Computer got no “spell check” Frank? Writing a long spiel about buying “off-plan” is several years too late buddy! That boat left long ago.
You’re kidding surely Charlie……missing Frank?? 😯 😯 😯 How can you when you’ve got the lovely “Hinge and Brackett”..sorry.. “Hinge & Thornton”? -
Claire – OK guilty of not using spell check but I can assure you I am not Frank.
I was a bit bored and genuinely wanted a debate on off plan purchasers.
I am not sure what you and the other people who have replied to my post want to get out of this board.
Maybe you would like to meet up. Where are you based? -
Claire – OK guilty of not using spell check but I can assure you I am not Frank.
I was a bit bored and genuinely wanted a debate on off plan purchasers.
I am not sure what you and the other people who have replied to my post want to get out of this board.
Maybe you would like to meet up. Where are you based? -
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OK I’ll go away. I was not looking for a date I can assure you. I just think it’s a shame this forum is degenerating and I feel people like you hide behind your key board and I was trying to say that I am a real life peson, living in Marbella, happy to discuss issues sensibly and happy to step out from behind my key board and meet anybody who wants a real live debate.
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OK I’ll go away. I was not looking for a date I can assure you. I just think it’s a shame this forum is degenerating and I feel people like you hide behind your key board and I was trying to say that I am a real life peson, living in Marbella, happy to discuss issues sensibly and happy to step out from behind my key board and meet anybody who wants a real live debate.
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Hi,
Not sure who’s who…
But in reply to questions regarding investment / development decisions.
In taking on more risk (off plan purchase) then you are expecting a higher rate of return – otherwise why take all those risks that you specify (and more) in the first instance?
The same principle applies to all development decisions taken. The risk return ratio is a common tool for measuring the profitability of an investment which can be compared against other investment opportunites. Obviously you do not know what your actual return will be when you commence with a development but projections can be made.
Hope that helps?
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Hi,
Not sure who’s who…
But in reply to questions regarding investment / development decisions.
In taking on more risk (off plan purchase) then you are expecting a higher rate of return – otherwise why take all those risks that you specify (and more) in the first instance?
The same principle applies to all development decisions taken. The risk return ratio is a common tool for measuring the profitability of an investment which can be compared against other investment opportunites. Obviously you do not know what your actual return will be when you commence with a development but projections can be made.
Hope that helps?
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Marcoloco thank you. At least somebody with some sensible comments. I think we are both in agreement – buying off plan is a risk that people take to gain a reward and sometimes the risk does not work out.
I was hoping for some sensible debate, maybe people who have bought off plan don’t see it that way? Anyway, not to worry. Maybe it’s not that interesting to folk. I’m off to Tariffa for a few days now – fantastic place, great beaches, fully recommend it for anybody wanting a real chill out place to go. -
Marcoloco thank you. At least somebody with some sensible comments. I think we are both in agreement – buying off plan is a risk that people take to gain a reward and sometimes the risk does not work out.
I was hoping for some sensible debate, maybe people who have bought off plan don’t see it that way? Anyway, not to worry. Maybe it’s not that interesting to folk. I’m off to Tariffa for a few days now – fantastic place, great beaches, fully recommend it for anybody wanting a real chill out place to go. -
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Take Alan Thornton with you Frank and drop him in the sea somewhere.
If he is a Chartered Accountant then he is a disgrace to his profession. I’ve never come across such an idiotic CA in my life………..and I know a great many, esp Tax specialists!
For your info AT, I do meet up with people from this forum and have numerous telephone convos with them. I’ll look your number up in our local directory and give you a call if you like. We could meet up, say House of Fraser. Cafe Zest suit you? Lovely views over Guildford. Maybe Charlie could join us too. 😉
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Take Alan Thornton with you Frank and drop him in the sea somewhere.
If he is a Chartered Accountant then he is a disgrace to his profession. I’ve never come across such an idiotic CA in my life………..and I know a great many, esp Tax specialists!
For your info AT, I do meet up with people from this forum and have numerous telephone convos with them. I’ll look your number up in our local directory and give you a call if you like. We could meet up, say House of Fraser. Cafe Zest suit you? Lovely views over Guildford. Maybe Charlie could join us too. 😉
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@Claire wrote:
Take Alan Thornton with you Frank and drop him in the sea somewhere.
If he is a Chartered Accountant then he is a disgrace to his profession. I’ve never come across such an idiotic CA in my life………..and I know a great many, esp Tax specialists!
Its that bad on here its funny 😛 . So you ‘know’ a great many?, If a Tom and Jerry cartoon was on TV I think you would struggle to name the leading characters.
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@Claire wrote:
Take Alan Thornton with you Frank and drop him in the sea somewhere.
If he is a Chartered Accountant then he is a disgrace to his profession. I’ve never come across such an idiotic CA in my life………..and I know a great many, esp Tax specialists!
Its that bad on here its funny 😛 . So you ‘know’ a great many?, If a Tom and Jerry cartoon was on TV I think you would struggle to name the leading characters.
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My husband is a Chartered Accountant. Having worked for KPMG both in London and Paris I can assure you Hinge I know MANY Chartered Accountants, and not one is as idiotic as Thornton. I’m guessing he’s well past working age. I’m putting his posts down to senile dementia! :lol I can’t be bothered reading your drivel. You are a mere disruptive , irritation to the forum but it’s survived worse.
You are absolutely right on one thing tho’. I couldn’t name Tom & Jerry characters,( other than Tom & Jerry.Thanks for the clue). Shaun is more my scene 😆 -
My husband is a Chartered Accountant. Having worked for KPMG both in London and Paris I can assure you Hinge I know MANY Chartered Accountants, and not one is as idiotic as Thornton. I’m guessing he’s well past working age. I’m putting his posts down to senile dementia! :lol I can’t be bothered reading your drivel. You are a mere disruptive , irritation to the forum but it’s survived worse.
You are absolutely right on one thing tho’. I couldn’t name Tom & Jerry characters,( other than Tom & Jerry.Thanks for the clue). Shaun is more my scene 😆 -
@Claire wrote:
My husband is a Chartered Accountant. Having worked for KPMG both in London and Paris I can assure you Hinge I know MANY Chartered Accountants, and not one is as idiotic as Thornton. I’m guessing he’s well past working age. I’m putting his posts down to senile dementia! :lol I can’t be bothered reading your drivel. You are a mere disruptive , irritation to the forum but it’s survived worse.
You are absolutely right on one thing tho’. I couldn’t name Tom & Jerry characters,( other than Tom & Jerry.Thanks for the clue). Shaun the Sheep is more my scene 😆I swear, you get worse 😛 . If Shaun the Sheep is more your scene, perhaps you should re-watch ‘The wrong Trousers’.
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@Claire wrote:
My husband is a Chartered Accountant. Having worked for KPMG both in London and Paris I can assure you Hinge I know MANY Chartered Accountants, and not one is as idiotic as Thornton. I’m guessing he’s well past working age. I’m putting his posts down to senile dementia! :lol I can’t be bothered reading your drivel. You are a mere disruptive , irritation to the forum but it’s survived worse.
You are absolutely right on one thing tho’. I couldn’t name Tom & Jerry characters,( other than Tom & Jerry.Thanks for the clue). Shaun the Sheep is more my scene 😆I swear, you get worse 😛 . If Shaun the Sheep is more your scene, perhaps you should re-watch ‘The wrong Trousers’.
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To the game zone:
Claire wrote: Thu Jul 02, 2009 11:24 am
“I know MANY Chartered Accountants, and not one is as idiotic as Thornton. I’m guessing he’s well past working age…”Hello Claire, Didn’t you learn to respect the people age? … it’s the second time I take you in this fault…What happen with you?…
I am improving my English. Thank you for your time. 8)
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Because he has been barred from this forum, he is being as disruptive as his small brain can cope with. It is a shame that the forum is not being closely monitored because it is allowing him to destroy it which appears to be his sole intention. Come on Mark, get SPI back on track and remove the jokers (prats) please.
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@Claire wrote:
Because he has been barred from this forum, he is being as disruptive as his small brain can cope with. It is a shame that the forum is not being closely monitored because it is allowing him to destroy it which appears to be his sole intention. Come on Mark, get SPI back on track and remove the jokers (prats) please.
Well, for the moment nobody seems interested in buying or selling or how the market is. So playing hide-and-seek with Frank et al. is more interesting. 😆
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Alan what exactly is the point of you comments? At least people like charlie, claire and katy all in all have been a positive contribution on this forum.
Whereas half you posts are insults.
Be the bigger man then and ignore them if you think they are pathetic, etc…
We are all meant to be adults here.
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@alanrthornton wrote:
fuengi
get real.
so y did u post.
my case rests.
it was’nt me that started the swearing and insults.
just your mates.
still looking for full english.ha ha hayes yes hahaha.
I posted for the simple reason that I thought you might be a reasonable person who came onto this forum orginally to gain some information and who might be willing to impart any hard earned knowledge where possible.
Instead you seem to be acting like everyone is against you on this forum. Regardless of who started it, why not just end it?
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Mary Hinge wrote: Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 10:24 am (Buying off plan)
“Its that bad on here its funny… 😀 ”Hello Mary…Yes they (the gaming zone people) are fun, but in a simple and boring way…like to give bread to the pigeons… they never said something rational or deep…when anyone (out of his band) give any sentence the only thing they manage to said is “ don’t feed the troll” or “call him/her stupid”, just insulting terms,… well at last I am improving my English.
I been outside for a time, but sadly I can see they always do the same to every one…well, I will go for more bread…
Nice to speak with you Mary. -
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To the game zone:
Feeding the hobbit:
Flosmichael wrote:
“It is obvious that many Spaniards will put the blame on foreigners for many of their problems. The good news is that life will teach them a lesson”
Flosmichael wrote:
“Spain had a once-in-a-lifetime chance to get rich due to construction sector. Take that away and see that the Emperor has no clothes…”You don’t know nothing about economy, do you?
Spain is not, as the topic, a very poor country (go to data or understand that if we have a quite good healthy system is just because we can pay it)…really never have been (any person with clever eyes can see it walking along the big cities streets)…
DATA: “www.cia.gov/library/publications/the world-factbook”
When Spain joined EU, the GDP per capita was 80% of the GDP per capita of the mayor countries of the EU-12… From that year Spain has cut the gap 1% per year. In fact it was not until 2002 when Spain recover the relative GDP per capita position (between the Europeans countries) Spain had in 1975 (Franco die)…In that date 1975 Spain was, as now, very near to the GDP per capita of UK…later of that date Spain suffer a huge economic recession : The 1º petrol crisis and the change of Dictator to Democratic government (it wasn’t cheap)…This are facts, everyone have access to them.
So, neither now neither before join the EU, Spain was a very poor country, just a little poorer than UK.
Don’t you understand this? Feel free to any question dear hobbit…by the way if I have time I will show you how poorly you read the statistics (Mary Hinge´s tread).You are quite funny 😀 , You follow you are own interest…to get the better table at the restaurant…You obviously are very busy in order to buy in Spain and at the same time you always speak badly about Spain 😯 . What that mean?….You are funny , You are like the man waiting for a table in a restaurant, and speaking badly about the food to the other waiting customers at the file, in order to get a better table…really funny 😀
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