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A very interesting article about the things are happening with this economic crisis:
http://www.elconfidencial.com/cache/2008/06/06/93_britanicos_dinero_comida.html
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I had the misfortune to be in the UK for a week in April.
I felt the pubs in the UK were actually emptier than were. There are hundreds closing their doors each week and all as a result of the UK’s lack of respect for human rights. Here in Spain, a bar owner (under 100 metres) can choose to make his bar smoking or non-smoking. It is his commercial decision. The customers have the right to choose to use a smoking or non smoking bar – their right. In the UK, I as a smoker am treated as a second class citizen. If I want to go into a pub, I have to go outside in the cold and wet to enjoy a smoke with my drink – a breach of my human rights! Like many others in the UK, I refuse to pay money to a Pub that did not fight for their (and their customers) rights when the legislation was introduced Nazi style last year.
No, the Spanish have got it right – give the owners and the customers the choice of what they want. That is their human right to enter a smoking or a non-smoking bar, as it is the right of the bar owner to decide if his will be a smoking or a non-smoking bar.
I think the quite bars in Spain at the moment are those in the Tourist areas and they are actually suffering from the effects of the exchange rates. Those Brits who are coming to pain for holidays are short of spending power and are becoming “Supermarket Tourists” just lime the Madridies have been for years in August.
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@Claire wrote:
And what about the human rights of the non-smoker who does not want to inhale second hand carcinogenic smoke and stink of someone elses exhaled tobacco smoke? There are two sides to this!
Claire – agree with you, both camps should have the choice – that is why I posted…
@rob-fuengirola wrote:
No, the Spanish have got it right – give the owners and the customers the choice of what they want. That is their human right to enter a smoking or a non-smoking bar, as it is the right of the bar owner to decide if his will be a smoking or a non-smoking bar.
You must have posted after not reading fully following the quite night at the non-smoking bar! – respect!:wink:
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rob
the no smoking rule in pubs is i think the best law for ages. It’s transformed pubs in to so much nicer places to be. Do you want cancer or all the other health issues?, or would you rather be fit and healthy. I’m a marathon runner, so know which i’d prefer. As you say, it’s your choice, and as long as nobody else is forced to breath the damaging muck, then that’s up to you.
GIVE IT UP!!
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Sorry to be a spoilsport but some obviously missed the following news article that was published at the end of May
“Currently all bars smaller than 100 m2 can choose whether to allow smoking or not, and ninety percent allow smokers in.
The Junta de Andalucía has announced it is considering a new tightening of the anti-smoking restrictions and says that smoking should be banned in all shops and premises less than 100 square metres.”see link below
http://www.typicallyspanish.com/news/publish/article_16737.shtml
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goodstich44 wrote:rob
the no smoking rule in pubs is i think the best law for ages. It’s transformed pubs in to so much nicer places to be. Do you want cancer or all the other health issues?, or would you rather be fit and healthy. I’m a marathon runner, so know which i’d prefer. As you say, it’s your choice, and as long as nobody else is forced to breath the damaging muck, then that’s up to you.
GIVE IT UP!!
Should have been the best law ever, to stop smoking in pubs,bars unfortunately in Spain it is a joke. I doubt 5% of bars are non smoking. Luckily I do not go to bars very often then only for a coffee and tostada,even then the bars are full of disgusting smoke. Have managed to find one who keeps a window open and his entry door so most of the foul
smoke disappears.Have almost stopped going to restaurants as all seem to allow smoking and the meal is always ruined by some cretin lighting up.
The sooner “the cobbler” stops smoking in bars and restaurants the better. I feel smokers are rather like the perpetrators of crimes in the UK, whose human rights are considered more important than those of the victims/non smokers.
Smoking is a filthy and disgusting habit, that as well as killing those praticising it, kills thousands of innocent people as well .
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There are 2 places in the UK that transcend the law on smoking.
1) The MPs bar at Westminster permits smoking (they are above the law)
2) The Begal dog tests at Laboratories in Oxford. (smoking in the work-place exception)
I don´t mind MPs smoking themselves to death, but they should ban it for the dogs as I like dogs.
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Claire said:
And what about the human rights of the non-smoker who does not want to inhale second hand carcinogenic smoke and stink of someone elses exhaled tobacco smoke? There are two sides to this!
Yes – spot on.
If I could show you some of the lung tumours I see, most smokers would stop. The trouble is, when you develop the symptoms it is usually well advanced. Not a nice way to go! 😥
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As this thread is completely off topic, and talking of “‘elf n safety” THE most ludicrous statement today is that if a dustman cannot move your wheelie bin with two or at most three fingers then the bin will not be emptied!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 😯 What the hell are hands for? The reason being that if they are heavy they may fall off the refuse truck. 😕 Considering most people now get only a fortnightly service ,it’s a joke. Next will be they can’t lift the recyclable bins as they are too heavy and dangerous to lift!
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Claire wrote:As this thread is completely off topic, and talking of “‘elf n safety” THE most ludicrous statement today is that if a dustman cannot move your wheelie bin with two or at most three fingers then the bin will not be emptied!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 😯 What the hell are hands for? The reason being that if they are heavy they may fall off the refuse truck. 😕 Considering most people now get only a fortnightly service ,it’s a joke. Next will be they can’t lift the recyclable bins as they are too heavy and dangerous to lift!
Claire your last statement is now fact, dustbinmen in UK will refuse to take away bins that are too heavt yo lift just off the ground with two fingers. You could n´t make it up could you?.
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“In the UK, I as a smoker am treated as a second class citizen. If I want to go into a pub, I have to go outside in the cold and wet to enjoy a smoke with my drink – a breach of my human rights! “
Oh yeah? And why would I have to go home with my clothes stinking of cigarette smoke because of people like you?
Smoking is the most disgusting thing I could imagine.
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@ralita wrote:
“And why would I have to go home with my clothes stinking of cigarette smoke because of people like you?
Smoking is the most disgusting thing I could imagine.
Ralita – you have also failed to grasp the very simple point I made………
@rob-fuengirola wrote:
No, the Spanish have got it right – give the owners and the customers the choice of what they want. That is their human right to enter a smoking or a non-smoking bar, as it is the right of the bar owner to decide if his will be a smoking or a non-smoking bar.
Quite simply, choose one of the non-smoking establishments to support.
@rt21 wrote:
Currently all bars smaller than 100 m2 can choose whether to allow smoking or not, and ninety percent allow smokers in.
Correct – and why – a commercial decision. If they stop smoking in the bar, the bar will close as it will be empty!
I actually accept the freedom of choice (BOTH WAYS) and let the customer vote with his feet. I for one have two very good restaurants I used to frequent and spend up to €200 in each a week. Because they have gone non-smoking (their choice / commercial decision) I no longer give them any money! The biggest complaint I have is of bars/restaurants that close their doors to smokers but cover/toldo/heat their terraces in the winter so that they have space and facilities in the winter for smokers. Then in the summer they allow tables on the terrace to be taken by the non smokers who should be inside as they are when it is colder! The old “double standards” thing.
Going further off-thread, but relative, 20 years ago my eldest son came home from school in the Midlands with a letter to the effect that as from the next Monday, the council would close the central Halal kitchen and all local schools would serve Halal meat to all pupils. At the end of the day, I won a case at the Race Relations Tribunal in Sheffield that my child was discriminated against because he was white. As I would not allow my child to eat Halal meat because of the cruel way it is killed, my child was discriminated against because he was not a Muslim (in a British school with 3 out of 250 pupils being Muslim). The central kitchen was re-instated for those that wanted Halal meals and my child received a proper one. That was the start of my deciding to leave the UK and sure enough, the lunatics have since taken over the asylum! I came to Spain, partially, because the Spanish people and the Spanish system were tolerant of everyone’s wishes and beliefs and since Franco became probably the most democratic country in Europe and allowed freedom of choice. That should not now change.
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Ralita – you have also failed to grasp the very simple point I made………
rob-fuengirola wrote:
No, the Spanish have got it right – give the owners and the customers the choice of what they want. That is their human right to enter a smoking or a non-smoking bar, as it is the right of the bar owner to decide if his will be a smoking or a non-smoking bar.Rob, you didn’t make your objective point very clear.
A law was passed in Spain for bars restaurants to be non-smoking areas, the law is flouted where/when it suits. No surprise there. 🙄
The biggest complaint I have is of bars/restaurants that close their doors to smokers but cover/toldo/heat their terraces in the winter so that they have space and facilities in the winter for smokers. Then in the summer they allow tables on the terrace to be taken by the non smokers who should be inside as they are when it is colder! The old “double standards” thing.
That is typically a selfish smokers logic. There are of course , many considerate smokers.
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@goodstich44 wrote:
rob
the no smoking rule in pubs is i think the best law for ages. It’s transformed pubs in to so much nicer places to be. Do you want cancer or all the other health issues?, or would you rather be fit and healthy. I’m a marathon runner, so know which i’d prefer. As you say, it’s your choice, and as long as nobody else is forced to breath the damaging muck, then that’s up to you.
GIVE IT UP!!
Now you have to smell the farts instead.
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Claire
this lack of regulation, is the very thing that’s done so damage in Spain in the area this site is mainly about. On the other hand, it’s what many people love about Spain. I hate petty rules and regs (dustbin issue etc) as much as anyone, but banning smoking/fox hunting and similar in the UK is just common sense and moving forward to me, as it’s preventing so much suffering. What freedom of choice for passive smokers, or bulls in Spain for that matter?.
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That is typically a selfish smokers logic. There are of course , many considerate smokers
Where????? I have never met one, asking people not to smoke usually ends up with my being called names from a racist to a………… or my parentage has been called into doubt. But what else would one expect from people whose habit is a killer of innocent people?.
I lost both my parents through cancer ,lots of friends through cancer and
or heart attacks, all were big smokers. If people want to kill themselves that is fine by me, but leave me out of it please I enjoy living. -
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it’s a tricky one, even outside. A couple of weeks ago my 11 year old son and i went for quite a long cycle ride, and stopped at a pub to have a drink. We sat outside in the fresh air, and within 5 mins’ a group of 4 couples sat down on the table beside us. 5 of them lit up, and very shortly we were breathing in cancerous fumes, so we left as there were no other tables. I know from experience and their body language that if i’d asked them not to smoke, the answer wouldn’t have been a nice one. What can you do?
I think they should only really be allowed in the privacy of your own home, but then landlords have to make a living, and must have smoking areas i guess, or lose much trade?
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I would just like to say thet I have never smoked in my life and about 18 months ago I developed respitory problems that I am afraid I may have for the remainder of my life. I asked the doctor how this could happen as a non smoker and he said simply…. inhaling other peoples smoke, passive smoking.
So I for one am delighted with the smoking ban, while I respect the choices of others I do not wish to suffer because of their choices. -
I am nearly 60 years of age and have lived both in the UK and Spain and all I can say is I’m glad I lived most of my life in times before the nanny state and the chattering classes rule as they do now.
I have always been anti being told what I can and cant do.
Taking risks is part of being alive. This anti smoking anti drinking anti any risk at all society is so boring.
Do you all really want to live so long that you get dementia!!!!!This is the off topic topic isn’t it
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I guess I want to live longer than my 45 years that I am now anyway.I agree we do have to take chances in life, that is what life is all about but I will just say would you send your kids out to play in a busy road? no you would not and I am 45 yrs old and have now a respitory problem that was caused by the choices of others….smoking, My health may not get better olly worse because of it.
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[/quote]do you realise or even care how selfish that sounds?
Loved the sixties. Favorit band THE WHO
Favorit song I hope I die before I get old!!!!
DO RELISE DONT CARE
Still rocking at 60 ( just a bit more slowly)
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