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Suspect it is a cobbled together press release 😕
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Katy, I wouldn’t trust this article which is Sur up to their media hype tricks for Spanish property, they are really suffering with a lack of property advertising and will say anything.
The fact remains that at roughly 1 euro to the 1 pound, Spain and eurozone are not a good deal for Brits anymore.
As you say, probably cobbled together. 😉
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@katy wrote:
Suspect it is a cobbled together press release 😕
I went once by mistake to A Place in the Sun, in 2005 (I had a Sunday to waste and was in Birmingham vicinity).
I would not be suprised if 60% of the people who go there believe that the prices are at the bottom. None of the visitors seemed to know much about anyhting…
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@UBEDA wrote:
they’ve spent too much time with VIVA estates I think, U,beda
Oh dear I think that was a bit below the belt UBEDA.
Just because VIVA accepts criticism or fair and open debate, therefore does then not ask Mark to delete every last single reference to it, as certain unmentionable parties do with the threat of legal action. is it fair to thus use it as the perenial whipping boy?
Or do you want them to go down the route of finally asking Mark to delete all references to their name, which they could do under the same legal pretexts as other agents have?
Comes a point maybe when everyone just gets fed up of being sometimes unfairly smacked in the face or being accountable for just about everything no?
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@Chris McCarthy wrote:
@UBEDA wrote:
they’ve spent too much time with VIVA estates I think, U,beda
Oh dear I think that was a bit below the belt UBEDA.
Just because VIVA accepts criticism or fair and open debate, therefore does then not ask Mark to delete every last single reference to it, as certain unmentionable parties do with the threat of legal action. is it fair to thus use it as the perenial whipping boy?
Or do you want them to go down the route of finally asking Mark to delete all references to their name, which they could do under the same legal pretexts as other agents have?
Comes a point maybe when everyone just gets fed up of being sometimes unfairly smacked in the face or being accountable for just about everything no?
Please ask Mark to delete all the references. I do not think anybody would be bothered by that.
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A good point about Chris Mac, despite all the flack he gets from us, he has been the only person from the large estate agents to have the cahones to come on this forum.
Whilst I don’t agree with his predictions for the Spanish property market, at least he does give a view even though it’s as an agent.
Viva have re-invented themselves somewhat and hopefully they will sell properly from now on, if they reduced their commissions, so much the better, there is an opportunity on the Coast for an honest agent or two.
The real cowboys have gone bust which is good for everyone, and let’s hope the others will follow.
According to AIPP, they too, have cleaned their act up and many of their rogue agents have gone, as well as Real Estate TV which was misleading people. There is a list of their members and I don’t recognise many now to even judge if the’re rogues or not. 😉
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God if I hear one more “green shoots” type comment from an estate agent or one of their cheerleaders, I think I’ll jump off one of those idle cranes that line the coast like war graves.
Not to labour the point but:
http://hubpages.com/hub/10-reasons-why-Spanish-Property-Prices-are-not-about-to-rise
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Advoco, hope you don’t think I’m cheerleading the Spanish or UK property markets, I’ve often said that I think Spanish property has all but died unless it’s a special location. I can’t stand Ward and Ptnrs in the UK either and their extended group stating ‘green shoots turning to full bloom’ when clearly that’s not the case.
Chris Mac and I don’t see eye to eye on Spanish property at all, my comment was that he’s the only one from the larger agents to come on here.
Oct 8th Telegraph paper compares Eurozone stats and says 49% of Spaniards are having difficulty meeting interest payments on mortgages and loans, far higher than any other Eurozone country. When they start defaulting, the Spanish Banks could start crumbling, and Spanish property prices will fall further. 😉
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Been to A Place in the Sun the past couple of years. Last year it was all “don’t leave it too late, buy now, you’ve never had it so good” this year even Amanda Lamb struggled to put a positive spin on things. The show was half the size of last year and the number of visitors was considerably down . Also I was sent half a dozen free tickets from the organisers. I cannot see this show continuing. From this experience alone I don’t see any light at the moment.
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@flosmichael wrote:
Please ask Mark to delete all the references. I do not think anybody would be bothered by that.
I was intending that the Moneyweek thread would have been my last contributory thread, but felt UBEDA’s comment was just a bit below the belt, so I bothered to say so here in this thread.
I am thankful to Angie that she appreciates my effort to have at least been present on the forum, but it sounds to me Flosmichael as if you’re saying “Yep you and your opinions are not welcome here, so go…”
If that is the consensus I of course will go, I think that leaves everyone with just the one side of the argument, but would ask that people be at least fair enough not to flippantly mention a company name, in a manner that casts aspersions upon that company or use’s it unfairly as an example of what might be wrong in the market.
I think that is fair.
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@Advoco wrote:
God if I hear one more “green shoots” type comment from an estate agent or one of their cheerleaders, I think I’ll jump off one of those idle cranes that line the coast like war graves.
http://hubpages.com/hub/10-reasons-why-Spanish-Property-Prices-are-not-about-to-riseKaty is quite correct there are not so many idle cranes along the coast anymore, very few now in fact.
I read your hub Advoco, I am fine with it as far as it goes, nothing on there though that hasn’t been said easily 1,000 times or more on this site over the years, so you are bit late in the day with the view really, in fact you probably got most of your view and information from this forum.
As somebody involved agent side I don’t believe I have ever been guilty of talking the market up in an overly dramatic or inappropriate manner myself.
However, in your apocalyptic view, it appears no one should / will / can buy today, or even dream of doing so tomorrow.
I think this is naïve in my opinion, I accept what happened yesterday, frankly some people on here haven’t got a clue what is going on today, others really know their stuff and we all have our own views on what is going to happen tomorrow.
Which of us is right or wrong about tomorrow? Well again I haven’t got a clue, and nor has anyone else, we will all just have to wait and see. It is sometimes interesting, often fun and then again often also frustrating to hear the vision of tomorrow, but it is all just forum debate, we simply just don’t know.
All I try to do is highlight from time to time some of the less negative views on today’s market, and on the reaction and activity of real people in today’s market – then the who, why, what, where and how come – real people are looking and buying today.
So if I hear one more legal advisor (making a living off the back of people who are present, positive, promotionally active and upbeat about a beautiful area of the planet) if I hear another legal eagle preach and pontificate with a ‘holier than thou – after the fact view’ of the Costa when it was they and their ilk who let down thousands of people in the first place, then do please forgive me if don’t applaud when you jump off one of the few remaining cranes!
I think Angie and more than a few others have a right to say what they do, am not so sure about yourself.
And I am sorry guys, I don’t talk boom but I won’t talk all gloom either.
Whether your know it, accept it or not, there are a significant number of people buying today, they always have, they always will, and they will certainly have their own reasons for doing so, that will fly in the face of all Avoco’s reasons not to do so… that is the way of the world and all markets.
Everyone on here could write 10 reasons why not to buy, the interesting thing is to debate perhaps the 10 reasons why people DO BUY (please note, not – should buy) nope… why they have actually BOUGHT this last week, against all the advice on this august forum.
How mad were they really?
And no, I am not going to contribute or subject you further with my 10 reasons why, I will get over myself, my own rant and certainly spare everyone that.
In fact the heck with this, am going to go and get 9 holes in on the golf course! See if I can spot myself an Avoco bird jumping off any cranes.
You can all talk all the doom and gloom you like, but you won’t stop me LOVING LIFE ON THE COSTA! Nor stop people buying here either!
But seriously, if anyone thinks the whole forum would be better off I didn’t offer another view, then really just say so and I will be off.
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Hi Chris
Which of us is right or wrong about tomorrow? Well again I haven’t got a clue, and nor has anyone else, we will all just have to wait and see. It is sometimes interesting, often fun and then again often also frustrating to hear the vision of tomorrow, but it is all just forum debate, we simply just don’t know.
So true, however I believe one thing. Slashing interest rates and QE is all about sowing the seeds for the next boom. It’s going to take a long time – 7 – 10 years?, but eventually the good times will return and the ‘balloon’ will once again get over-inflated and burst. I predict that in 7 years time buyers, will be fighting over each other again! We all have short memories.
That’s what economics is all about.
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maximus
who knows? I feel that unless very serious issues like outstanding bank debt, hopeless overbuild, and the corruption/lack of regulation/poor justice are dealt with, then recovery is hard to see? Even when the recession pulls out, those problems could still be there along with the reputation?
I think the time or pretending it will sort itself out is gone, along with sales and confidence in the property industry. Places will always sell in certain numbers, but without change, it’s hard to see what would start another boom? So much water has gone under the bridge I’m not sure if history can be compared with regards to boom/bust?
I’m sure recovery will happen sooner or later, but probably much sooner if those who can make changes for the better get their head out the sand and do so fast!
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Hi Goodstich44,
Great to see that you are still here and posting. Congratulations about the court case. I really hope you don’t have any further problems. You certainly demonstrate tenacity. A lot of people would have given up! I guess that’s what the corrupt developers rely on.
In total agreement with you about corruption/lack of regulation/poor justice etc being an issue. However, people buy property on sentiment. If others are buying, demand pushes up prices, and most of us, although we don’t like to admit it, are greedy and so follow. The only difference next time is that buyers will know the pitfalls. Terms of purchase will have to change – such as if you are buying off-plan, you will only risk a small deposit – the rest you hand over on completion. People are going to be more savvy next time.
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mr mcCarthy states his case, i am sure he originally set off with good intentions within his sales set up.the problem is businesse,s need to grow you then need more people in your organisation you cannot oversee everything that is said or done by employees, they earn by commission on sales which in itself creates problems ,having many branches and employees make it difficult to control,it seems very unfair to bring his name into contention when someone or some organisation is being held responsible for past happening,s i am sure many of his past customers are very happy with their purchases through his organisation.
we have all made rash decisions ,ten,s of thousands did and purchased on the CDS,listening to sales people telling them that the rental income would more or less pay for their purchase!! low service charges then watch them escalate. people wanted to be told what they wanted to hear.
you all know the answer to that !!.people will always buy on the CDS it is such a wonderful place. i suppose now could be the time to buy!! but at your price if the asking price is 300000 euros offer 150000 then negotiate, remember all the extras on top of the sale price.
my advice to anyone contemplating a purchase if you have the cash then buy!! if you have to borrow then don,t unless its a minimal amount.
interest rates will climb in the near future.
cold hard facts tell us there will be no rapid recovery to the property market worldwide.most certainly not on the CDS.there will be no more booms for a very long time .
ask peoples advice much of the necessary information is available on this site from very experianced people who live on the CDS
go and rent in the area where you are contemplating buying.
CDS property purchase is most certainly not an investment,its a holiday home for you and your family or a retiral retreat away from uk winters
you must also consider the living costs ,especially if you are on a pension it will be a long time before a favourable exchange rate £ to euro is available.
positive thinking before purchasing .good hunting after rentingremember the golden rule –he/she who has the gold makes the rules
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I think the Costas are in for a rough ride for at least a few years. Only my view and not based on the various so called “financial gurus”. Wasn’t some of these the very same people who were telling us as late as 2006 to buy now and gain 30% profit on completion! As for prices, I don’t think they will fall much lower. Perhaps on the ugly urbanisations the wrong side of the toll road which were vastly over-priced off-plan. I would not call them a bargain anyway. If location, quality etc is wanted these type of properties do not fall so much, especially on the Costa.
A sort off reverse example….we wanted a bolthole in the UK. Been looking seriously since Feb. We didn’t want any house because it was cheap…we chose location first. Houses have been going within 2or 3 weeks of coming on the market. We were outbid on two. Now have one that I love, not exactly a bargain but I doubt if we would have afforded it last year. Many say that prices will continue to drop in the UK next year, they may be right….I am not bothered! we are happy with what we have bought and can use it. Same applies to Spain even in a recession many of the bargains aren’t real bargains at all in the same way a Ford is cheaper than a BMW.
At this moment in the places I know on the CDS go in at 50% below and I bet they won’t even bother to get back to you….please remember I heard all this sort of talk during the last crash in Spain.
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katy
I think it’s much harder now to see the appeal of Spain.? I think the main draw to Spain (apart from the weather benefits) has always been cost of buying and cost of living along with the other benefits like location and lack of crowding and traffic, the lifestyle etc, but there are also now many well reported horrors about buying/selling/living to balance the good. I see the future of Spain far more as a holiday destination with a small amount always buying. Much like it was before the boom I guess?
I still wonder what will happen to the million+ unsold properties though, and the money tied up in them?
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Hi Katy,
Great to see so many ‘oldies’ still posting – if you get my meaning. Nothing personal! 🙂
Glad you found your property in the UK. The summers here are amazing; nowhere else like it on Earth in my humble opinion. But the winters – yuk. There has been a rally in sales around here (West Country). Not sure where all the money is coming from! This area is always in demand due to escapees from London, and I think the renters where waiting in the wings. However, I think Quantitative Easing also has a lot to do with it. The printed money is pushing the stock market and driving up house prices. Next year look less attractive. Big falls are being predicted – who knows?
This is not a recovery. 😥
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@katy wrote:
I think the Costas are in for a rough ride for at least a few years.
Many say that prices will continue to drop in the UK next year, they may be right….I am not bothered! we are happy with what we have bought and can use it. Same applies to Spain even in a recession many of the bargains aren’t real bargains at all in the same way a Ford is cheaper than a BMW.
At this moment in the places I know on the CDS go in at 50% below and I bet they won’t even bother to get back to you….please remember I heard all this sort of talk during the last crash in Spain.And I agree with this entirely.
Katy was around during the last crash and so was I.
I don’t know if the Advoco Bird was atop the cranes of the CDS back 20 years ago and looking to jump off then, when everyone who was here somehow managed to get through and survive, when all we heard back then was that it was over for the coast.
I also agree entirely with the view that it may take years for the so called good times to roll once again, but just as back in the day, I am not so interested in waiting around for that to happen, life is here for the living and now.
Katy’s reverse story is just 1 out of 10 reasons why people ARE BUYING today here on the coast, and there a good number of other reasons.
Yet I also agree, almost entirely with the view of Angie, Goodsitch and many others about the past, much about the present, and yep a heck of a lot about the future.
But lets not stick our head in the sand here.
There are people buying, it is about affordability, use, lifestyle, happiness and fulfilment, as it happens I myself adore living in Harrogate for now 50% of my time, I just love it, but then I had 10 years associated to the Middle East and 20 years here in Spain, for me it was always a goal to go home.
Don’t forget, the simple fact that the CDS – whatever your view – has been a dream in reverse for many people over the past 20-30 years, and as we discussed a few months back when I was waxing lyrical about a 3 weeks stay in South Africa, and the thread went on to debate the why’s and wherefore’s of about 10 other real comparisons, the CDS beat everywhere hands down.
I don’t think anyone here least of all me is talking of a boom, even an upsurge in the market, frankly I don’t want one, I want a good five years of gradual growth and stability, starting from now or as soon as possible.
And this time around, I would like the LAWYERS to do their job right, had THEY done so in the first place we might still be in a financial mess, but Goodsitch and others would never have had to go through years of turmoil and distress.
It is almost hysterically funny, that a Lawyer would post a link to his own 10 Reasons Not To Buy, as a promotion for his own business, and state self righteously that he will throw himself off a crane if he hears someone talking the market up, you wouldn’t have found him or anyone else turning away my referral business back then or I suspect even today
Grrhhh, I try ever so hard to hold my hands to my own failings, not to criticise others, and not get up my own proverbial backside but am failing badly now.
So I will stop and just say that the the biggest value of this site and forum, is insight in to getting it right. Balanced debate on the good and the bad. Not to simply announce however that the CDS is done, finished, the last person switched off the lights and the place is now closed.
If you were here 20 years ago, you simply would not believe how amazing the place is today compared to then, yep including a number of poor urbanisations, and if you take a view 5,10,15 years from now, I think it is going to be even more amazing.
Oh, and if you have a good lawyer, you should never have a problem with an agent, developer or bank.
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@Chris McCarthy wrote:
And this time around, I would like the LAWYERS to do their job right, had THEY done so in the first place we might still be in a financial mess, but Goodsitch and others would never have had to go through years of turmoil and distress.
[i]Oh, and if you have a good lawyer, you should never have a problem with an agent, developer or bank. [/i]
Exactly! I posted something a long time ago (haven’t time to search) where I said I did not blame the agents, that is why a Lawyer is hired to oversee if all the claims are true…they should bring it together, in most cases the Lawyers were negligent.
I knew many people on the coast who were working as Agents or had set-up business as one. The majority were new to the coast, they knew nothing about areas, the law, even local gossip. They did not even speak Spanish. Some were selling during the boom and they had only been in Spain themselves for a matter of weeks. The best story I heard was when one of the TV producers working on one of those property programmes bought an off-plan whilst he was filming. He lost his deposit with a no-build.
I have never trusted an Estate Agent in any country. They perform a service, an introduction. Many buyers thought they were their new best friend….FFS they are selling It is like believing your bank when they tell you their own financial products are the best.
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@Chris McCarthy wrote:
There are people buying, it is about affordability, use, lifestyle, happiness and fulfilment, as it happens I myself adore living in Harrogate for now 50% of my time, I just love it, but then I had 10 years associated to the Middle East and 20 years here in Spain, for me it was always a goal to go home.
Don’t forget, the simple fact that the CDS – whatever your view – has been a dream in reverse for many people over the past 20-30 years, and as we discussed a few months back when I was waxing lyrical about a 3 weeks stay in South Africa, and the thread went on to debate the why’s and wherefore’s of about 10 other real comparisons, the CDS beat everywhere hands down.]
If the SHTF and the pound goes under 1 Euro (it is ar 1.06 official now), the Euro mortgage holders paid in Pounds will not have any happiness and fulfilment.
I guess you are the only person on Earth who thinks that CDS beats everywhere hands down… Yes, some people live there because they live there but the best place on Earth… 😀
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@flosmichael wrote:
If the SHTF and the pound goes under 1 Euro (it is ar 1.06 official now), the Euro mortgage holders paid in Pounds will not have any happiness and fulfilment.
I guess you are the only person on Earth who thinks that CDS beats everywhere hands down… Yes, some people live there because they live there but the best place on Earth… 😀Here we go…
Flosmichael, I was about to become very sarcastic here, but I have to hold off, and please forgive me, because I don’t know what it is about you that gets me going or what it is vice versa that gets you going about me.
But please, STOP thinking that the only person that matters, or the only thing that matters is Sterling or Brits, as you should be aware that outside of that tiny little island you live on, there is a VAST land mass with a goodly number – many more millions – of people living, working and using a thing called the Euro.
Also I have lived and dealt with all manner of currencies all my working life and the rates go up and they come down, it happens, but it is not the only factor or even the most important factor. Stop harking on about the Euro, you have to use pounds to buy because that is your currency.
Stop also thinking as if there are tens of thousands of people looking to sell right now, there are not, there are tens of thousands who own a home here and LOVE IT have no intention of selling now or for the next five years or more!
But far more importantly if you have to sell today, and you did pay in pounds five years ago it means you can actually reduce your price from your pound purchase by 30% and still get out with the same you put in… in this market, in these times what a fantastic result!
So you shot yourself in the foot there.
Like I say exchange rates and currencies is swings and roundabouts. You can’t actually cut the cake both ways, and not everything is just a mathematical equation about the best time to buy or the price of a cup of coffee from one area to another. We are not all you Flosmichael and so deeply analytical, some of us are emotional want to live life today, to pay the costs as they apply today, not of yesterday or some distant tomorrow.
Furthermore, I started a thread about South Africa extolling its many virtues and comparable benefits to the CDS, I wasn’t looking for a vote or an affirmation of the coast here, but by goodness that was what naturally came out as the result.
It may not be for you, in fact I don’t think Spain is for you, certainly not right now, but get it also into your thinking that… FACT over 1 million Brits at some point over the past 20 years or so, have actually bought a home in Spain, and it is not going to stop – and FAR MORE have bought here than anywhere else, including France, USA, South Africa, or any other holiday home destination so don’t be so facetious – “You must be the only person on earth who thinks it is the best place…” – No I am not alone, I bought and lived here very happily along with 1 million others!
Give it up with the Euro, give it up with knocking me for believing that here is a great place to live. I have 20 years of experience of having lived here, you have taken it seems a long drive down the coast comparing notes from beach to beach, so who knows more about living here, me or you?
And recognise that I don’t have my head in the sand about the many and varied issues that this forum raises with respect to the issues of today, yesterday and tomorrow.
You know what Floshmichael, negativity is not what makes the world go around, never has been and never will be, get past yourself sometimes, think about what I am saying sometimes….
Think sunshine sometimes, that is what the Costa del Sol means, the coast of the sun, and try to understand that not everyone is you, this is a cracking place and actually when the new airport is finished over 20 million people will be flying in every year.
Think about the more positive aspects just sometimes…! We might then have a reasonable dialogue and I promise to consider the downsides also.
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And another thing Flosmichael…
(Ha, yep folks I cannot quite believe it myself.. but I am resorting rather bizarrely to a most uncommon hissy fit…)
I did not say the CDS was: “The best place on earth…”
I said the CDS was: “A beautiful area of the planet…”
Two very different things, please start reading or refer to what I actually say, not project what you would prefer me to have said, to more suit your own purpose.
I might well be mistaken in my views but very unfair of you to grossly misrepresent them.
(I am now walking over to pick up my rattle and put it back in the pram, hissy fit over )
Time to go for today methinks, my escape was golf yesterday, tonight I think a G&T is definitely in order, and bless they don’t serve them in the UK like they do here!
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@Chris McCarthy wrote:
I did not say the CDS was: “The best place on earth…”
I said the CDS was: “A beautiful area of the planet…”
Two very different things, please start reading or refer to what I actually say, not project what you would prefer me to have said, to more suit your own purpose.
Sorry Chris, you said “Don’t forget, the simple fact that the CDS – whatever your view – has been a dream in reverse for many people over the past 20-30 years, and as we discussed a few months back when I was waxing lyrical about a 3 weeks stay in South Africa, and the thread went on to debate the why’s and wherefore’s of about 10 other real comparisons, the CDS beat everywhere hands down. “
Now, I am not a native English speaker, but in my understanding when one says that CDS beats everywhere hands down means that CDS is better than other places, isn’t. I do not have time to go back to that thread, but I remember that the comparison was with California, Florida,
South Africa, Brazil, many other countries in Mediteranean.So in your opinion CDS is better than all the above mentioned…
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Chris
while we all know there are many people happy with their lot in Spain, it has to be said there are also a hell of a lot who would sell if they could? I’m hearing this first hand from almost everyone I know who has property there. The rising cost of living, falling prices, ongoing community/maintenance costs, lack of rent potential and exchange rate are ruining the dream for many, but they are trapped and trying to make the best of it.
Posts to positive are as bad as to negative and I don’t think many take either to seriously. People want honesty in the pro’s and cons.
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I have to say that many of the people I know are trying to sell. Others are waiting hoping for an upturn and then sell. Some friends are leaving at the end of the month, have been trying to sell for at least two years. They are even having difficulty renting the place long term. Not just British either.
The fall in sterling has been compounded with the strange economics of most spaniards, less clients…put up the prices and reduce the quality. Another reason is their attitude to foreigners which seems to be getting worse.
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@Chris McCarthy wrote:
But please, STOP thinking that the only person that matters, or the only thing that matters is Sterling or Brits,
Stop harking on about the Euro, you have to use pounds to buy because that is your currency.
Stop also thinking as if there are tens of thousands of people looking to sell rightWe are not all you Flosmichael and so deeply analytical, some of us are emotional want to live life today, to pay the costs as they apply today, not of yesterday or some distant tomorrow.
So Many STOPS, I feel like in a traffic jam. 😀
Anyway, I think that you Chris might the most analytical of all as your business is at risk if the fall continues. I could not care less if the prices go up 20% in CDS or fall by 20% in CDS. Even with a 20% fall most prices would still be too high for what they offer.
I would probably buy a beachfront villa in Marbella because that would still hold the value but the overbuilt hills do not present much value to me.
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British buying again?
If so, just hope at least the agents will be more vigilent about making sure all their properties have legal status. This alone will help towards straightening out the market somewhat so let’s hope they abide by the new laws ensuring all docs. are in place.Even while my court case was going on for an illegal no-build, Viva were still advertising the development – until I pointed it out to Chris of course :wink:.
I also agree with Katy – if lawyers had been doing their jobs properly many of us would not have become embroiled in this mess in the first place, despite the fraudulent games the Spanish were playing at local town hall level. Like many of our MP’s, I don’t believe they were just corrupt – they were were involved in blatant fraud. A lot of cleaning up needs to be done before confidence in buying returns.
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charlie
so so true. I don’t know anyone would trust an agent, but a lawyer!!. We were conned first of all (after the agent) by a UK conveyancing company who well and truly betrayed the trust given to them by UK buyers thinking they were safe with a UK based lawyer. We were then conned by the Spanish lawyer they put us on to, and only on twigging this and changing to our current Spanish lawyer was it confirmed we had been set up by the UK agent, the UK lawyer, Their Spanish lawyer and the Spanish developer. To top it all 5 years later we were conned by the Spanish courts/government by them waiting 2 years and 6 months after our case was accepted by them, to pass judgement which we won, but as the developers went under two years and three months after our case had been accepted we have nothing but a name on a creditor list.
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@goodstich44 wrote:
Posts to positive are as bad as to negative and I don’t think many take either to seriously. People want honesty in the pro’s and cons.
I agree but I don’t think I have been overly positive.
I believe I am accepting the situation as it is today, and was yesterday.
I am simply saying that there are people looking and people buying.
I have not talked the market up in any way, I have tried to explain however that it is not as completely doom and gloom as is sometimes made out to be and that not everyone works off or takes the same criteria view in purchase as many users of the forum.
Buying a home here today is for a minority of people, in these times affordability should be the first issue, value and personal use the following main criteria.
Many Brits will hold off buying in case the exchange rate moves up again.
Many vendors you and Katy are quite correct would like to sell, many are waiting to sell, but actually there are not as many private vendor resales on the market as there were in the boom, and the reason is, if you can afford to wait – then you do, who wants to sell today, in an absolute buyers market.
Sell only if you personal circumstances mean really have to.
Buy only if you can afford to and it is genuinely going to work for you.
I do try to keep it simple Goodsitch, but it isn’t easy when your facing a tidal wave of negativity.
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Chris
some might say you are facing a tidal wave of reality? Many are not selling, not out of choice but because they feel they are stuck!
From those I speak to with property, I feel you have been and still are over positive. I understand you have to be that way to a degree to do your job though. Perhaps some are over negative? but history has shown the hard way to many buyers that being cautious and slightly negative is a far safer bet than the alternative in Spain. What people from the UK take for granted like honest lawyers and justice are often very negative issues in Spain.
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@goodstich44 wrote:
Chris
What people from the UK take for granted like honest lawyers and justice are often very negative issues in Spain.I agree entirely with this sentiment, and yes I get that I am strongly positive, but in my defence, people would tell you that this is actuallly my day to day manner about most things, not just my job.
And you know what I have said it all on here so many times, I think I have probably said more than enough, besides which, if I get flak here sometimes you simply would not believe the – headshaking why do you bother reaction – I get from people in the real estate business whom I play the odd round of golf or have an occasional beer with. They think I am nuts.
I was telling this to my wife over the phone this morning, and she sent me this quote:
It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.
Theodore Roosevelt.
So, I think I am going to return to the arena, see what I can do out there in Print, Internet, Local & External Direct Promotion, Exhibitions across a variety of programmes and media to place my positive optimism there, from here onward, and hopefully I will live up to Angies expectations in the future and make sure that nobody who deals with me suffers as you have done Goodsitch.
And I am damn sure that if I slip up, Katy will let you all know.
Love life on the Costa is my motto and maybe I come back later and we have a good chinwag about the market in 6 or 12 months!
Cheers!
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Goodstich, I understand and empathise with your experiences which were so typical at the time and going on for years!
The general scam often started with:
A UK property exhibition or roadshow where you meet very friendly British agents that build your trust, followed by what seemed a cheap inspection trip, followed by showing 1 or 2 inferior properties, followed by more expensive and flashier properties, then pressure to take your property off the market with a deposit because clients are queuing up to buy as are the Directors and staff, wheeled round to the agent’s ‘in bed lawyer’ to sign and part with the money, then 1st stage payment a month later, by which time you start hearing of delays or problems, and you’re committed to the contract which you also find does not resemble the specification and artist impression you saw with the agent, the re-sale promises or completion times go by the wall, the agent fails to respond to your anxiety, the Bank he intoduced you to imposes punitive charges even when in credit, the lawyer then appears to work for the agent and developer/promoter and charges heftily for it as well, and something is built blocking your view which the agent said was a ‘green space’, and don’t forget the ‘B’ money either on this site, etc etc
Then the problems really start: it may not be licenced, may not be legal, the developer/promoter reneges on contract or goes bust, the agent’s staff have moved on, the agent will not take responsibility for that staff member, because of delays the exchange rate has gone sour and there’s another stage payment due on something unfinished, and guess what, the agent also goes bust or does a runner.You hear he’s in Thailand!!!! (Awful)
Then the Spanish Gov’t does nothing to help, you hear the Courts will take maybe 5 years to sort it out unfavourably most times, you miss out on the UK market meanwhile, and you have to employ yet another lawyer at great cost.
No wonder us Brits and others became so cynical about Spanish property! 👿
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angie
yes indeed. What hurts the most is the fact that we won our case fair and square after over 7 years, but still having nothing because of the courts 2 year+ delay in passing sentence, despite a black and white case of theft that could have been decided on in days! How on earth can this be the end of the matter, which is what I assume the courts expect me to accept! What sort of injustice is that? They had over two years to pass sentence before the developer (who is now facing a jail sentence for being a known crook) went in to administration. What possible excuse can there be for not compensating us when it was them who chose to delay sentence for so long and then pass in our favour two months after the company went into administration? It’s just so wrong from any angle. The courts know that as well as we do, but who will tell them to do the right thing and pay us the money they lost us through their unacceptable delay?
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angie – one of the best summarisations I’ve ever read regarding what went on for all those years. And what a damning and pitiful story it reads.
I think it should be printed on a leaflet with the title “Buyer Beware” and handed out to every visitor who visit property fairs! Time will only tell if Spain gets it’s act together in the future. -
Thank you for your comment charlie, and also your’s Goodstich. You both, along with Claire and others know exactly how right the content is.
These things need to be said!
Wouldn’t it be good as well as helpful if Mark could somehow have it showing permanently as a warning to would be purchasers? Entitled
The Truth About Spain’s Dreadful Property Scams!!!:wink:
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angie
justice is so bad for some of us that I don’t know if many would believe it could happen in an EU country that has so many links with UK buyers?
People would probably say ”well that can’t be right, they’ve been swindled by the very legal system that’s there to administer justice, and it goes against all human rights. Somebody must be able to do something to put it right?”
……I think that’s what most assume?
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Couldn’t agree more Goodstich and there are ‘somebodies’ who could start putting it right, for example whilst Mark has done such a good job of his website, I’m sure you, charlie and many others including me, would like him to put my suggestion outlining the pitfalls of dealing with some of these agents Permanently on here for all to see, otherwise they slip off the page and they’re gone as most don’t backtrack on each topic.
It’s not libel in any way as it mentions no particular agent, so why not do it? It will also be a good start to pressure the Spanish Gov’t and regulatory bodies to clean their act up.
Now that would be beneficial even for Mark and maybe Spanish Property Doctor in the S. Times will be needed again, as well as other spin-offs! 😉
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