[Elena]

Hi

We are resident in the UK and have had a 2nd home in Spain for 14 years. Where we live is very Spanish with very few expats living here or having a 2nd home here, so no opportunity to discuss issues with people in similar situations.

I have been looking to gain info on how UK residents with 2nd homes in the EU will be affected post Brexit, and if anyone is aware of any politucal discussions which have occurred in relation to people in this situation.

There is much discussion and emphasis on dealing with EU people living in the UK and UK people who currently live in the EU. There seems to be nothing about people  with NIE and who have 2nd homes.

Currently, as members of the EU, we have the same rights as Spanish, this has not always been the case , eg being the %tax difference when paying  tax on profit from houses and annual tax payments etc etc.

Has anyone heard of any representations made on behalf of people n this situation, especially those who were in this situation, prior to the Brexit vote last year?

 

 

u

[mh]

Who knows what Brexit will look like, besides the UK has to first pass a national election (that is looking more uncertain by the day given May’s “un-strong and unstable leadership”).

As for representation, this too could be difficult especially since it is believed that many Britons deliberately do not register their residency in Spain. How can someone be represented for something that does not exit? Maybe now is the time to register your residency in Spain – ?

I have, however, found an interesting article from an online pro-EU newspaper – Politico – in which they lay out the official Spanish expectations of the Brexit negotiations:

http://www.politico.eu/article/brexit-negotiation-spain-sets-sights-on-citizens-deal/

These expectations strike me as eminently sensible and extremely reasonable. One could go so far as to say that the Spanish Government is more likely to look after the interests of Brits in Spain than the UK Government! They have also even toned down their position on Gibraltar big time.

Good for the Spanish!

 

[Vendido]

Hello Elena

We are in a very similar, almost identical, situation as yourselves.

Not sure what the previous response meant by not registering our residency – we are not resident in Spain and as far as I am aware we do not register non-residency. In fact I am not at all sure what the previous response was about at all !!

As far as Brexir negotiations go, there is a lot of noise from both sides at moment, so lets wait and see. In any event I doubt very much if non-resident second home owners would even be on the agenda.

My guess, is that we will be treated as we are now. I dont think the Spanish treat non-EU non resident property owners  (ie Swiss, Russians, Norwegians, etc) any different to EU non-resident property owners. Hopefully that will continue – I cannot see Spain suddenly treating UK non-resident property owners suddenly more harshly. We are still a big part of their foreign buyer market after all.

regards

Kevin

 

 

 

[Simon Sutton George]

I’m very doubtful that much, if anything will change.

I think that there are quite a few people that are frightened that Brits will be treated differently than they are now, but as I’ve written on my blog and newspaper articles a number of times…if you’re American, Australian or Chinese…you can still buy a property here in Spain, so IF the UK does go ahead with Brexit, I can’t imagine there being any change at all for Brits.

All I can think is that there may be some extra paperwork to fill in if you buy here, but with pretty much the same amount of Spanish living in the UK as there are Brits living in Spain – there’s very little chance of change.

[Vendido]

Hello Elena

just following on from my previous post.

Assuming worst case of ‘hard’ Brexit and UK no longer in EU or EEA then, as Spanish tax rates stand at the moment we would pay a higher rate of tax as non-resident property owners. Currently we pay 19% for our non-resident income tax, which is the rate for all EU nationals. This would rise to 24% if/when we become non EU or EEA nationals. The method of calculating the tax would hopefully remain the same.

Similar applies to Capital Gains Tax which would also rise from 19% to 24%

This all assumes that Spain treats UK same as they currently treat other non EU countries. Spain could of course introduce a special UK tax bracket – for better or for worse, and only time will tell about that

Kevin

[picky]

Many thanks for posting this question, we are in exactly the same situation and have owned and enjoyed a property in Spain for 9 years now. The intention was to one day retire to Spain, however the second part of this question for us and I am sure others in this position, is reciprocal healthcare. Without healthcare our plans end here, it would be too cost prohibitive to move to Spain. Our fallback plan would probably be to instead move to one of the other countries in the world offering some superb retirement plans which includes excellent free healthcare, but this would certainly not be our primary choice, distance being the biggest issue apart from the fact we simply adore Spain.

I do have some faith in the Spanish government for a number of reasons over the British, as just spending time in Spain you see how much of the Spanish economy relies on the British who live and are tourists to Spain, it’s not the obvious but DIY stores, furniture stores, the list is a very long one, many of these would I fear not survive without this revenue stream.

I know the deal is not a good one for the Spanish government they send the U.K. a smaller number of healthy younger folks we export to Spain  lot of old crocks to be fair! But the alternative for the U.K. Government is even more new housing needed  and a much larger NHS bill just for starters, so possibly the mostly useless UK politicians might see some sense in the end? But I fear they might not, all politicians from all parties fill me with dread, history shows they have no idea what they doing most of time, just sleepwalking into the future with eyes tight shut, only thinking about their own selfish aims, just look at the health service, pensions and the sheer about of money the U.K. continues to borrow without any thought for the next generations.

Maybe there will be light at the end of the tunnel but right now I’m not so sure, no party is going to make any difference whatever the outcome of the UK election that is for sure. At the end of the day only people pressure might make a difference and there are not enough folks affected is probably close to the truth. I put put a lot more faith in the Spanish doing the right thing than the UK politicians though, that is for certain.  Time will tell so I guess all just have to wait and see…

[Elena]

Thanks to all for your responses.

I didn’t quite get the advice to become residents as are non residents with NIE and have been in this postion for 14years.   Our plan was to consider Spanish residency when are grandchildren are  a bit older, but as one of the replies has noted, this may not be possible if we lose some of our EU rights

Like all,of you have responded, it’s clear there is no emphasis on looking at people in our situations, but I believe, there may come a time when we need to be heard, to highlight our situations. The loss of reciprocal healthcare is obviously biggest issue, but like you all, our decision to buy a 2nd home in EU was supported by the equalities of rights for all EU citizens and I do not believe we should lose this.

I follow Brexit news all the time at the moment  (sad I know!) and there has been a suggestion, both from the EU and Spanish government, that they recognise what we contribute to the EU economy, than that they ‘want to’ look after people such as us. However, if the hard Brexit approach continues or no deal occurs, I have no faith that the UK would agree to continue reciprocal arrangements for healthcare.

Loads of unknowns on this issue, but it makes our position really difficult, if they don’t agree a fair way to treat UK expats and EU people living and working in UK….feel we will probably be ignored!

I think it could be useful if we could keep this topic open on this site, and perhaps use it to enable others in our situation  (of which, I am sure there are loads of us) to join in this discussion, so that we keep updated and consider a plan, if required, to make those in ‘positions of power’ to consider our situation

We both speak Spanish,  and perhaps others have other skills and knowledge that we can pull together to plan for the future?

 

 

 

[Redhroogar]

Spain gets a lot of relatively affluent ‘old Crocks’ in exchange for reducing their horrendous youth unemployment problem. For example whilst spending a night in our local hospital I had an interesting conversation with a young Spanish Male Nurse from Malaga who was extremely pleased and happy that he could find work and receive excellent training in his chosen profession here; where he had minimal chance of that in Spain.😎

[Ptt]

We don’t know yet the Brexit implications in full. Being fiscally non- resident filing annually I just think what would happen if I just overstayed and told them so. Maybe for the relevant tax year they just charge me the extra tax on my UK income but could they deem me fiscally resident apart maybe for that particular year. So I would not have to declare my home in UK  or pay capital tax if I sold it take care to stay within 182 days in that year But if I do this surely would not want to chuck me out. Even if I do not satisfy their rules for Health  care and income level they could not grant me fiscally resident status – the income level quite high- in any case I could have health care in Uk if I keep coming back to Uk 90 days a year in the summer. What very annoying the Uk Govt does not seem to care a monkeys fkuc about property owners in Spain. No mention of any representations particularly for Uk owners who bought with the intention of retiring there permanently later on who now find this potentially frustrated. Give your Local MP a piece of your mind about this!

• This reply was modified 6 years ago by Ptt. Reason: error and addition

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