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The forum has been pretty quiet recently so I thought it was time for another fotocasa post!!
The comment about Spanish sellers (or maybe that should be sellers of Spanish property, but I think the former is more correct) being very patient was made by a poster on Edward Hugh’s facebook blog. I hadn’t considered that aspect before, my opinion was more critical!
Anyway here’s a post from fotocasa.
I post it because the seller has realised that the current price was not competitive in the current climate and has reduced it!
(Some owners are now offering identical apartments for less than 125k Euros. And yes that property has been on the market for 2 years.)
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That was probably me commenting on sellers patience. I think part of the reason is that ownership is with the middle aged folks and not the youth who might be considered more upwardly mobile and will move around for work — of course there’s very little work so not much moving to be done anyway.
Also, benefits are generous in Spain, so people are able to cling on for the time being while interest rates are low.
Also, the banks are playing dirty tricks and not lending for barely anything other than a purchase of their properties, and are obviously keeping the market artificially out of whack.
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Also, the banks are playing dirty tricks and not lending for barely anything other than a purchase of their properties, and are obviously keeping the market artificially out of whack.
Actually, it depends more on the funds that the buyer has and his earnings. I have just had a UK client approved a 65% mortgage (VAT and Reg. costs not included). The sales price is 278.000 €, and this is with the CAM bank. I know that the general feeling is that they are not lending, the truth is that they are, just being a lot more careful to who and how much.
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Well, quite, in the literal sense they are lending, however in reality there’s very few people who have 35-40% of the asking price to hand or are even prepared to invest it Spanish property rather than more equitable investments that wont be as likely to lose money.
Gonna need to be one hell of a bargain before I pump a 100k deposit of my own cash into Spanish property.
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Denial is an Irish river too
http://www.thepropertypin.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=12516&sid=7b4467b4a4c52babfa8e1ca692baff23
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@adiep wrote:
Last post: Thu Sep 16, 2010 11:27 am
Have a look at the forum, I think you’ll find the Pin people think it has much further to fall.
That’s an interesting forum for sure, I don’t have the time to go around all these forums, but that is fascinating yep.
Apart from Eye on Spain are there any other decent Spanish property forums that I don’t know about? Heaven forbid I would register on any, this one uses up too much energy but might be interesting to take a looksee now and again.
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@brianc_li wrote:
That thread you have linked to is over two years old. The Irish market has since bottomed and steadied.
If only brianc-Li – certainly hasn’t bottomed and by no way steadied – the drops have got smaller – some say the lower end of the market has bottomed but only for heavily reduced prices. Some are predicting mid next year for a bottom on the top end of the market that would be a reduction of between 50% to 72% for some properties at the top end. Ireland’s property bust seems to be a lot more protracted and deeper than that of Spain.
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Ireland has been an incredible market, but somehow I suspect that many put their houses on the market at stupendous prices just on the off-chance they’d get lucky and someone would buy, IOW, “chancers”. Im also guessing that the reality is that not many actually purchased at these really huge prices, reason for that thinking is the ability for prices to drop by 70%, but could be wrong about that 🙂
The Pin has forums dedicated to prices before and after the crash, same properties, so gives a good (and humourous) comparison of whats been happening out there
http://www.thepropertypin.com/viewforum.php?f=21
Im not Irish, just “stumbled” on the site and found it interesting – not that being Irish is a crime or anything 😕
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For example, this was 1.8m euros in 04, now is €650,000
http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=490610
Bunch of chancers…
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@adiep wrote:
For example, this was 1.8m euros in 04, now is €650,000
http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=490610
Bunch of chancers…
Hi Adiep,
I’m Irish and proud of it! I don’t think you can blame the average punter trying to sell their house as being chancers – the reality was Irish property was way over valued during the boom years. Example: my own property I had valued for sale by 4 agents – all valued at E700,000 – now the same property would be worth half that or there abouts – there was a whole viscious circle here – bankers not doing stress test on loans throwing money at anything with a pulse, Governments fueling the property bubble, estate agents giving high valuations – the circles goes on. People bought at the height of the boom and are now caught in negative equity – I don’t blame the ordinary people – money was cheap and some people did not see this crash coming – in Ireland people like to own their own property rather than renting – it has changed recently and there are good bargains to be had now – only trouble is the banks are not lending.
By the way just looked at the link you posed and to say that was worth 1.8 million euros at the height of the boom is a joke – even E650,000 – I’d quesiton that – those prices are more like South County Dublin prices! At the moment there is no market certainly not at the top end – you can put a value on anything here at the moment!
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@angela wrote:
@adiep wrote:
For example, this was 1.8m euros in 04, now is €650,000
http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=490610
Bunch of chancers…
Hi Adiep,
I’m Irish and proud of it! I don’t think you can blame the average punter trying to sell their house as being chancers – the reality was Irish property was way over valued during the boom years. Example: my own property I had valued for sale by 4 agents – all valued at E700,000 – now the same property would be worth half that or there abouts – there was a whole viscious circle here – bankers not doing stress test on loans throwing money at anything with a pulse, Governments fueling the property bubble, estate agents giving high valuations – the circles goes on. People bought at the height of the boom and are now caught in negative equity – I don’t blame the ordinary people – money was cheap and some people did not see this crash coming – in Ireland people like to own their own property rather than renting – it has changed recently and there are good bargains to be had now – only trouble is the banks are not lending.
By the way just looked at the link you posed and to say that was worth 1.8 million euros at the height of the boom is a joke – even E650,000 – I’d quesiton that – those prices are more like South County Dublin prices! At the moment there is no market certainly not at the top end – you can put a value on anything here at the moment!
Hi Angela, I didnt value the house at 1.8m, one of your average Irish punters (chancers) did 😀
Agreed, 650k is still too much, its not like Dublin is London, where theres plenty of jobs and high salaries to be had. Ireland really has felt the double edged sword of being in the eurozone and by all accounts nearly went bust on Friday needing a bail out from the ECB.
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“I didnt value the house at 1.8m, one of your average Irish punters (chancers) did 😀
quote]Adiep,
Didn’t say you valued that property – was just making a comment on the property. London I gather is in the grips of a double dip recession. On being on a holiday over there recently – we are in the grips of a deep recession over here and people give out about the celtic tiger but the street scapes of Dublin has benifited from it immensly – Docklands in paticular. There is a lot of negativity here and Irish people love to wallow in it but having returned as I say from holiday in london and not having been there for 20 years I can’t say I’d be returning too soon. The quality of life here to me is far superior.
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@marjal wrote:
having returned as I say from holiday in london and not having been there for 20 years I can’t say I’d be returning too soon. The quality of life here to me is far superior.
And this is why some people buy in places even if it is not a good investment.
Absolutely, but back to Irish property prices…
I worked with a good number of Irish people here, and now and again I would pick up say the ‘Irish Independent’ and go flicking through the property pages and was AGHAST at some of the prices I would see.
Now Harrogate is not a cheap area, the prices are equivalent to most areas in the South and around London places like Esher etc, and many houses in Ireland, pre/post war semi-detached, front & back garden, 3 bed lets say, really ordinary but nice homes… well these are exact copies of what we have in UK, same architects often am sure, these were selling in Harrogate depending on the area for between 180k – 2800k but i would look at many in the Iris Independent that would have prices between 800k – 1.2m
it was mind blowing.One of our accoutants told me his Mother had sold a former council house for over 800k.
Now I now Foxrock and such places can be expensive but then this wasn’t exclusively there, it seemed uniform all around areas of Dublin.
And I had friends who were in the Middle East at the end of the 80’s who had bought at home in Dublin who were then quickly caught in negative equity and I remember at that time you could almost buy a house in or around Dublin for half to two thirds of a UK similar property.
But for standard homes to end up being double or more in Ireland to the UK… I couldn’t understand that kind of explosion, not at all.
Spanish prices sort of tracked the same curves as UK for a long time, but Irelands went off the scale really.
Although, we all remember 20 years ago, you could sell a half decent house in the UK and buy 2 apartments in Spain.
Seems like the UK is the only place were prices although exploding did not go off the cliff edge.
But how do people cope in Ireland with the personal volume of negative equity they must now have?
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Hi Chris,
Anyone who has bought in the last 5 years has been badly stung – and we have a government at the helm – who are not captaining the ship properly. We are the only country in the eurozone to raise interest rates while wages are dropping. Property prices went made here and like spain overbuilt and developed but it seems to be a deeper more protracted bust here – Dublin prices were off the ricter scale until the bust came along. Back in the early ’90s there was a boom then also and the prices were extremely high. One good thing about all this is that cost of living has come down along with property prices – apart from the interest rates!
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@angela wrote:
Hi Chris,
Anyone who has bought in the last 5 years has been badly stung – and we have a government at the helm – who are not captaining the ship properly. We are the only country in the eurozone to raise interest rates while wages are dropping. Property prices went made here and like spain overbuilt and developed but it seems to be a deeper more protracted bust here – Dublin prices were off the ricter scale until the bust came along. Back in the early ’90s there was a boom then also and the prices were extremely high. One good thing about all this is that cost of living has come down along with property prices – apart from the interest rates!
It is fascinating, just awesome how everyone believed that bricks and mortar were the only things to invest in, I know someone who’s very succesful business went to the wall, because they took their Irish Banks advice and borrowed heavily to invest not further in their own business but in property speculation.
Come the day, the bank then bankrupted the business when they struggled to meet their commitments to the property investments, it was just all too distressing, but then another business person I met once told me that the Irish were the ‘smartest cookies’ – “we are using the Germans savings” he said, “to go buy up Bulgaria”. Like the Germans were nuts for not doing the same. This guy was a top finance executive with a major Irish corporation.
People were buying 10 -20 units at a time, and getting the money against their Irish properties and increasing valuations. What a frenzy there, it may be a generation before prices then return to their peak no?
Very sad really. But a massive lesson I suppose. I just don’t think English people have any idea what has happened over there in Ireland, but when did they ever hey? Some still don’t know the Irish have their own language, government and hello really are a differnt country!
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Chris,
Many people worldwide got caught up in property speculation not just Irish and got burned badly over the last couple of years. I feel sorry most for people who bought property not for investment but as a family home and are not in deep negative equity – the higher banking executives, the financial regulator who presided over the boom time they will never face jail – I don’t think the term stress test ever came about during those times.
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