May 29, 2007 at 4:59 pm #52915
Inez, who regularing contributes on the forum will be appearing on Trevor Mc Donald show on ITV, Friday the 1st of June 07, at 20.00, Uk time.
I am sure there will be some pearls wisdom from her
May 29, 2007 at 6:31 pm #72482
I will definitely be watching ❗ ❗ They asked me to go to Marbella & contribute but as I was only given 3 days notice it wasn’t possible. The producer said it will be about the ‘property slump’ in Spain, but at the time of our discussion he didn’t seem to know that a lot of the empty properties up for sale didn’t have LFOs. So it will be extremely interesting to see how the programme presents, hopefully, the whole picture ❓
May 29, 2007 at 7:50 pm #72487
Suzanne, I was asked to appear as well. I was told that the producer/team was aware of the current situation and wanted to focus on the future.
May 29, 2007 at 8:09 pm #72492
Hopefully the future will be positive for Spain – I really hope so – but to get there we all have to focus on today & the problems that we are facing.
It would have been nice to meet you Shakeel – maybe next time ❓ 🙂
May 29, 2007 at 8:23 pm #72496
After thr storm !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
May 29, 2007 at 8:29 pm #72497
Shakeel, have to say that I can never make any sense of your posts. I read them and wonder what you are on..soreeeeh 8)
May 29, 2007 at 8:36 pm #72502
I will be watching it ! The thing I worry about is if they will give a true picture or indeed will they just “gloss it over” without giving the real facts.
I have contacted newspapers, t.v stations regarding the corruption and the fact that people are being ripped off . The Irish stock market lost 1.5 BILLION a couple of weeks back due to the property slump in Spain but as there are vested interests on behalf of the big banks (here in Ireland)
I feel that is why no one wants to highlight it… hopefully Trevor Mc Donald will do a good job. Good luck !!
May 29, 2007 at 8:44 pm #72504
Sorry if it does not make sense. I know how you feel at times it does not make sence to me either. Sadly I have not been on the bottle so no one to blame.
The thing is the forum generally covers the same subject in one form or another. Some times I play the devils advocate the other times leave some food for thougt and or provoke thought.
In the instance that you posted I was answering suzanne what I meant was the currently we are in a storm and the calm will follow.
June 2, 2007 at 8:45 am #72660
Did anyone watch the ‘Spanish Property Crash’ programme with Trevor McDonald (with Inez!) last night?
Unable to watch as I’m not in UK – did it give a true/balanced view of what is going on????
June 2, 2007 at 9:08 am #72661
Nothing new, a bit about people who cannot sell their off-plans, someone who is a victim of the Valencia land grab. A few clips on ugly developments About half of the programme consisted of Inez auctioning properties and withdrawing them because they didn’t reach their reserve price. The properties were mainly overpriced anyway! I think the production team are mainly interested in coming over for a jaunt.
June 2, 2007 at 9:13 am #72662
So did the programme not touch on the corruption side of things at all then, therefore warning future buyers what to look out for?
(Besides the Valencian land-grab…)
June 2, 2007 at 9:18 am #72663
Charlie – The programme in the main blamed the ‘property slump’ on people outstretching themselves financially & too many developments. It did NOT highlight the fact that most of these empty properties are empty because they are illegal. I’m very glad I didn’t go over to contribute – I doubt whether they would have broadcast anything I had to say ❗
June 2, 2007 at 9:23 am #72664
Maybe ‘diplomacy’ ruled the day, with TM not wanting to embarrass the Spanish authorities by exposing the internal corruption??
Wants to be able to return for another ‘jaunt’ one day. 🙄 Can’t be bad, probably put up at a lovely hotel, all expenses paid….
Bring on Jeremy Paxman, I say 😈
June 2, 2007 at 9:27 am #72665
Thinking about it, what a great opportunity missed to ‘expose’ and ‘warn’.
Could have even mentioned your petition, Suzanne!!!!! Would have been worth a million leaflets…. 🙁
Trevor, if you’re reading this why not do something really wothwhile next time and mention: http://www.spanishpropertyscandalpetition.co.uk
June 2, 2007 at 9:39 am #72667
As I explained, I was only given a couple of days notice & have domestic issues also to deal with. As the programme did not lean towards the illegal buildings it may have been a waste of time. By the way, TM very rarely participates in any of the actual filming on the ‘Tonight’ show or influences its content; but his name is a good medium for presenting the programme (from London) & getting people to watch it.
❓ Missed opportunity for OUR Petition (not ‘mine’). Possibly, although I doubt it. There are many more opportunities in the pipeline.
June 2, 2007 at 9:57 am #72668
Sorry Suzanne, misunderstanding. I was meaning “Trevor could have even mentioned our petition”.
Don’t blame you for not being able to drop everything and charge over to Spain at a couple of days notice. Not many people could.
June 2, 2007 at 10:03 am #72669
I found the program very disappointing.
Whilst a property slump may be unusual in Spain, the program failed to highlight the real causes of the problem – corruption and illegal developments.
The Valencia Land Grab is old news (no disrespect to those affected). The number of people who have unknowingly purchased an illegal property must out number the Land Grab victims by many thousands, yet nobody mentioned it.
We need some good investigative journalism to highlight the real problems and make everyone aware of the situation that thousands of us are in due to the greedy corrupt builders, lawyers and government in Spain.
June 2, 2007 at 10:22 am #72670
Sadly even Mark, did not say anything on the subject not even in passing.
I have to say that I agree with the rest. It seamed to me to be utilising air time on superficial issues and skating around the subject.
Like Suzanne I was glad that I did not participate in the progaramme as I could have only desribed my visit as an all paid up mini break.
I am certain that Inez, would have covered those issues as she encounters them first hand on an hourly basis but those issues found the attention of the editors chopping board.
I have nover come accross TMc to be dealing with contencious issues through out his career.
June 2, 2007 at 12:56 pm #72671
As usual it was a very disappointing load of old rubbish, hardly touched on the reality and spent too much time talking about the auction site, which turned out exactly the same as the few i attended in the early days, ie not sold and the property market wasnt supposed to be in trouble at that time. 😕
Was good to see Mark but even he came across as sitting on the fence, shame. 😥
June 2, 2007 at 3:03 pm #72672DrRobertParticipant
The Tonight show is tabloid television and often just deals with surface and sensationalistic issues.
The land grab situation has been dealt with many times before and seemed irrelevant to the general theme of the programme, which was the Spanish Property crash. No mention was made that land grab only applies to Valencia.
The reason for the slump is obvious; too many properties being built, not enough buyers. Going into that, and the corruption, arrests etc would have made a much more interesting programme. And one that was substantially harder to produce. The programme as shown looked liked they had a week’s filming to come up with something. Not an ongoing in-depth investigation stretching over several months, as, say, Panorama might produce.
June 2, 2007 at 3:08 pm #72673MelosineParticipant
Understand from another forum that one of the tv crew bought a show flat !!!
June 2, 2007 at 3:47 pm #72674
Good for the crew, that means that now we have to find buyers for the remaining unsold units of 99,999 if the figure of 100,000 were to be beleived.
Dr Robert, I agree with you have 110%, if its possible.
June 2, 2007 at 7:58 pm #72678
Melosine ,I would not believe anything about the film crew buying ,another spin i expect.The large golf developers are advertising heavily on ITV so I was not expecting any great revelations from the Tonight programme.They did feature a couple who had narrowly missed having their home demolished ,after having seen their neighbours home pulled down ,for you have guessed it, not having the correct permission,the developers long gone as normal
However they had been informed that they would never receive the correct planning permission. So have been left in an awful limbo like situation not knowing what the future holds. I know that it is a old story,but every time i see how those desperate people have been treated in Valencia,you really wonder ,if we are actually watching this disgusting and barbaric theft of peoples homes occuring on mainland Europe,can you imagine the outcry if the authorities in the UK had systematically robbed peoples homes and then charged the victims for putting in the roads across their gardens,!!!
I can only hope that the EU continues its ongoing investigations and brings about a prompt prosecution of those involved,Horrific and appalling
June 3, 2007 at 10:29 am #72684
you really wonder ,if we are actually watching this disgusting and barbaric theft of peoples homes occuring on mainland Europe,can you imagine the outcry if the authorities in the UK had systematically robbed peoples homes……
Did I understand correctly that this can happen in UK, when I read recently that if your home has been empty for more than 6 months, the local council can take it and let it out for X-amount of years (3?) to help the housing shortage situation?
June 3, 2007 at 12:01 pm #72687
Charlie,I think we are taking at cross threads here,you are referring to proposals that councils have ,under a whole raft of compliant tested criteria,that if a property has been deliberately left empty with no council tax having been paid etc ,in effect abandoned then after exhaustively trying to contact owners etc,and obtaining the relevant court order ,they could obtain possession,
The situation in Valencia is so obviously and materially different that I wont insult your intelligence ,by attempting to compare one entirely legal and laudable process ,with a another which is nothing more than than the name it has been given ‘Land Grab’
June 3, 2007 at 1:28 pm #72688
Appreciate the two situations are entirely different and was not trying to compare the situations ‘like for like’ (and no insult taken).
Was just pointing out that there is a scenario in UK where if you own a home and you want to just turn the key to lock it up for however long you want, it shouldn’t be anyone’s business – let alone the council’s – where it’s possible, for whatever criteria is met, for them to take it and use it to house other people. That’s all.
Personally, they may have made this ‘legal’ but I certainly don’t find it ‘laudable’.
June 3, 2007 at 4:31 pm #72689
the Valencia land grab doesn’t just apply to Valencia. Francisco Camps is so proud of the law that he publicly states it is “The way forward” for European land laws. Unfortunately a couple of other provinces have adopted similar laws – Andalucia passed a similar law in 2003 I believe, which is in principle the same as Land Grab. Others have also passed similar laws – which is worrying because it looks like they have taken up Camp’s direction.
June 3, 2007 at 4:31 pm #72690
Charlie,The situation in the UK is a proposal at this stage,and relates only to properties that have been abandoned, with no council tax having paid etc etc,as clearly stated in my posting ,it therefore follows that it does not include the scenario that you have referred to which is obviously a legitimate use of the owners property.
June 4, 2007 at 8:38 am #72692
Charlie,The situation in the UK is a proposal at this stage,…
Untrue I’m afraid Gary.
The Empty Dwelling Management Order was introduced on 6th July 2006 as an amendment to the 2004 Housing Act.
….and relates only to properties that have been abandoned,…
Councils already have strong powers to deal with properties which represent ‘a hazard’ through Compulsory Purchase Orders.
The EDMO extends that power to seize properties that are not necessarily in a state of disrepair.
The EDMO introduces the concept that property should be used and if it isn’t the local authority has a say in bringing it back into use. Owners will have to justify what they intend to do with an empty property after a relatively short time.
Many properties will be exempt, for example those where someone has gone ‘temporarily’ abroad or is in hospital; where it’s a holiday home, or within six months of probate being granted where the home owner has died. If none of these exemptions apply and the tribunal rules in favour of the council, it could take control of the property for seven years.
Henry Stuart, head of property at the City law firm Withers, said these new powers represent a significant change in the law:
“It introduces the concept that property should be used and if it isn’t that the local authority has a say in bringing it back into use. That is a new departure.”
The point of my original post on this subject was purely in reply to your comment “can you imagine the outcry if the authorities in the UK had systematically robbed peoples homes…” and I was just pointing out that it is in fact happening in the UK. The Government acknowledges that they expect approx. 1000 homes per year will be seized via the EDMO. And of course that is if certain local councils don’t get over-zealous with their new powers. The reality figure-wise remains to be seen.
Of course it is different from the ‘Land Grab’ situation, but the principal that a Government can forcibly take your property from you is the same.
June 4, 2007 at 9:42 am #72694
Charlie,Our local Councillor ,who lives nearby ,said they were aware of this new legislation and as portfolio holder for housing provision liaises with other local authorities ,on social housing provision. Stated the the only time they would implement this new policy was in in the case I outlined ie ,abandonment of a dwelling otherwise it would prove too costly and and unpopular to carry out .
This Goverment has passed a mass of so called vote winning laws ,many of which have proven to be too costly to implement fully,I was of course referring to your original thread ,which is if you are away from your home for 6 months ,then the council could come in and take it off you which is patently not the case here.
The whole point of this posting is to make the point,that land grab is a singuarly vicious and highly immoral corrupt ,and inhuman act, which is not to be confused with Edmo I am glad to see that you have accepted this fact.
June 4, 2007 at 9:56 am #72697
I wasn’t confused to begin with. 🙄
I think the confusion is on your side as you seem to keep missing my point so I’ll repeat it:
“Of course EDMO’s are different from the ‘Land Grab’ situation, but the principle that a Government can forcibly take your property from you is the same”.
…..so I don’t understand why you keep banging on about the fact they are different.
(Apologies Mark for ‘shouting’ but I can’t seem to get through…)
June 4, 2007 at 1:23 pm #72709
Whatever ,And so what ,it has nothing to nothing to do with the dire situation in Spain, and by the way calm down,we are on the same side,
June 4, 2007 at 2:45 pm #72717
GSB, the sooner you realise that there are some here, like everywhere, that believe it is only they that know the truth, the law, the facts, etc., Little wonder some have been conned, as some never seem to listen to the other side of the story.
On this thread alone, there is the “I think the production team are mainly interested in coming over for a jaunt.”, then “TM not wanting to embarrass the Spanish authorities”, also “Sadly even Mark, did not say anything on the subject not even in passing.” onto, “As usual it was a very disappointing load of old rubbish” wait for it, “so I don’t understand why you keep banging on about the fact they are different.
I KNOW” and all these comments coming from people who have been duped.
You see, it is everyone else who seems to be in the wrong.
To those out there thinking of buying off-plan, read, listen, learn and seek professional advice.
June 4, 2007 at 3:31 pm #72721
MG,You are right of course its the bigger picture thats at stake here ,not ego’s,
June 4, 2007 at 4:17 pm #72724
Oh dear mg – now it seems you even have a problem with members giving their opinions about a tv programme!
According to you and your quotes, Katy, Shakeel and Flynn shouldn’t have dared venture forth their opinions on the programme. Is there no end to your silliness??
As has been your custom recently, you seem to only appear on the forum these days to criticise.
Maybe you should start your own thread: ‘The gospel according to mg’ where no-one else’s opinion is allowed. Just the way you seem to like it.
There you can repeat over and over again your only message “Seek professional advice”.
Katy, Shakeel and Flynn – I welcome your opinions/contributions so please keep them coming. 8)
June 4, 2007 at 4:39 pm #72727
If proof was needed:
“…..so I don’t understand why you keep banging on about the fact they are different.
I KNOW. “
You may wish to mock my advice:
“Seek professional advice”
Even if it was my only contribution, I still consider it worthwhile, uless of course you want tears and expect sympathy.
But hopefully some will listen and may not end up in the situation that you and many others are.
June 4, 2007 at 4:44 pm #72729
Gary – am always calm (it’s in my nature you see) – just thought if I wrote it in big letters it would help you to understand.
Trying to help you understand my point has nothing to do with egos.
Maybe you repeatedly missing the point, but nevertheless insisting on keep commenting regardless, does?
I agree our little debate has nothing to do with the bigger picture going on in Spain – but then my point did only start out as a one-liner on page 2.
So, back to topic…..?
edited once for typing errors (am doing this while eating dinner…. 😆 )
June 4, 2007 at 4:47 pm #72730
I do try to ignore MG’s rants as they seem to be worthless but, just to set the record straight still think the programme was **** and that they come for a jaunt also I have never been “duped” in Spain but would comment “there but for the grace of God….” I have friends who I consider more intelligent and richer than me who have used lawyers and done everything right and been CONNED (duped is a bit too tame). MG is like a small kid who is looking for attention ❗
June 4, 2007 at 4:50 pm #72731
If proof was needed:
“…..so I don’t understand why you keep banging on about the fact they are different.
I KNOW. “
Well I do know that EDMO’s are different from the ‘Land Grab’ situation. We’ve already established that……finally 🙄
So what’s your point?
June 4, 2007 at 4:56 pm #72733
Katy – as I was unable to see the programme, I also took a look at other forums to see their views on the programme.
It seems your views, Shakeel’s and Flynn’s are the same as dozens of others – and incidentally did not see one positive one.
So as usual, for mg to criticise all your comments is just a load of that piggy-stuff. 😉
June 4, 2007 at 5:14 pm #72734
many of the people that have fallen foul of scum bag agent/developer/lawyers, did seek professional advice…….from prosessional liars sadly. There are enough warnings and info’ available now, about the known bad eggs, and their lies and greed, but we still need to make sure the scum bags are put out of business and replaced by decent business people. And those wronged decent people given the justice they deserve, as Suzanne and others are trying so hard to do. I think most people in the UK will only feel happy if they feel they can trust people in positions such as lawyers or judges. As for agents, i think they have an even bigger mountain to climb before they can gain trust. Let’s hope the decent ones rise to the surface.
As GSB says, the situation in Spain is dire, and if you choose to blame those who have been conned, lied to, or at worst been naive about believing so-called professionals, over the low life cheats we now all know about, you really are missing the point.
June 4, 2007 at 5:44 pm #72736
Charlie,Grow up and move on,I am not going to massage your ego any further,pompous and irrelevant come to mind
June 4, 2007 at 5:49 pm #72737
“many of the people that have fallen foul of scum bag agent/developer/lawyers, did seek professional advice…….from prosessional liars sadly.”
Big mistake there then, relying on liars. Should have sought advice from Independent Lawyer and Surveyor, unless it is someon who knows all.
Back to the TV prog., and mayb worth questioning why they concentrated on the “Land Grab” and not hose that have been sold illegal properties.
But there, many now claim, as records show, they were aware that all was not right, but for the right price took the gamble.
The Land Grab, that is a sorry state which need sorting and all the help the Government can throw at it.
“I do try to ignore MG’s rants as they seem to be worthless”
Yeah, worthless information advising people to seek independent professional advice.
Why are so many caught out…..hmmmmm
June 4, 2007 at 6:53 pm #72743
MG,In fact the Tonight program did feature a couple who had narrowly avoided having their home demolished,their neighbors house having been demolished previously,they have now been left in limbo not knowing what the future holds ,their Solicitor has advised them that they may never obtain full planning permission, the Developers long gone as normal.
I do not Know of any other country that has so many property scandals running on this scale,I am so glad that prospective purchasers are checking out the websites for information ,for warned is for armed
June 4, 2007 at 7:35 pm #72744
“I do not Know of any other country that has so many property scandals running on this scale,I am so glad that prospective purchasers are checking out the websites for information ,for warned is for armed”
From what I read, Eastern Europe can give a run for money. Numbers may not be as high, but percentage wise?
“I am so glad that prospective purchasers are checking out the websites for information ,for warned is for armed”
Agree on that, unfortunately it seems for everyone who listens and learns, ther are 10 number putting on the rose tinted and flying off (subsidised of course) to listen to the sales talk and sign up.
June 4, 2007 at 8:01 pm #72745
MG,I have to say that reluctantly you are most likely to be right on this one despite ,all the info now out there ,people no doubt will be signing on the doted line after the usual subsidised trip, simply not aware of what they are getting into
June 4, 2007 at 9:01 pm #72746
Getting back to the main issues…Do members think that it is possible for an estate agent to be honest and upright ❓ Should they have to carry a warning similar to cigarette packets such as “Everything we tell you may not be true and believing us could damage your bank balance and ultimately your sanity”!
June 4, 2007 at 9:23 pm #72748
My apologies to any estate agents out there who are honest people trying to do an honest job but I can say from personal experience that it was the sorriest day of my life the day I met the estate agent who sold us the apartment. The estate agent was without doubt aware of all the irregularities that was involved with the development and it was only when we started to demand answers and ask direct questions that she decided not to answer the phone calls, even when we arrived unexpected at the office and she tried to make her excuses and leave through the backdoor that the full realisation of what they were like was known to us.They were only interested in one thing…. Comission.
Estate agents should be held accountable as they are the link between the developer/seller and the buyer.
It is the corrupt and greedy ones that give the honest ones a bad name!!
June 4, 2007 at 10:14 pm #72754
sorry to hear of your experiences. It is unfortunate that a few bad apples spoilt it for everyone but thats the world over. However your point about estate agents being accountable – they are. You have just as much come back on an estate agent as you do a developer and perhaps if people started pursuing estate agents they may reduce the problems.
Everyone in the chain of the sale is responsible for the information given that forms part of the contract – so if they tell you the development will complete in 18 months and it isn’t you can take them to task over it.Its just that most people don’t probably because they don’t realise they can – believing it is just the developer who is responsible. That is why a decent agent will do all the checks first to ensure there is no comeback on them later.
Something certainly to think about.
June 4, 2007 at 10:34 pm #72755
Bettyboo, Untill the legal side of property purchase is tied to the selling side ,say as in Scotland where solicitors handle property sales the purchasers will always be at some risk,full and proper disclosure at point of contact ,but untill some one makes agents and promoters legally responsible for the contract then there will always be a risk.
To be frank the Scottish system is not perfect but it does allow much greater come back if some thing has gone horribly wrong with the contract ie,the vendor removed the Kitchen or the property differed from the layout agreed on the plan,remember the law will still move slowly to enforce breaches of contract where ever you are ,but not as slow as in Spain perhaps
June 4, 2007 at 10:59 pm #72756
Hi Vince,I do recall a case up in Tortosa,involving an REA that was taken to court for mis-selling, in this case rustic land that could be built on, overall the outcome for the plaintiffs was mixed as the Judge ruled that although he accepted that the plaintiffs had been mis led ,he also said that they ought not to rely soley on the agents recommendations, I believe that the Judge ordered the agent to fore fit her fee, and awarded set costs, but no amount was awarded for compensation as such for the plaintiffs,I understand though that each case rests on its merits.
June 5, 2007 at 6:27 am #72758
“Do members think that it is possible for an estate agent to be honest and upright”
Yes, it is up to you to seek the good from the bad. Much like buying a car.
If you go to a Supermarket, do you buy blind or select what you want?
Do you touch the fruit and veg?
Find out about the agent first.
Would you hand over money to anyone else who told you what you want to hear and be very friendly towards you (until you have signed that is).
“Should they have to carry a warning similar to cigarette packets such as”
No, don’t agree in the nanny state.
“and it was only when we started to demand answers and ask direct questions”
At what stage was that. All those nasty and delving questions should be the first to be asked and not deciding the colour floor tiles you want in the building to be completed 2 years later.
“Estate agents should be held accountable as they are the link between the developer/seller”
Similar to the new car salesman then!
Regarding an agent being accountable, let’s asume you are trying to claim back 250.000 how many private agents would have the funds to compensate?
Some form of insurance (PI) would be required, therefore, they would need to increase fees to cover (so you pay more).
For the larger company, it would not be long before each branch would be independent with little or no assets, so in the event of a claim, you may win but would be lucky to get anything except satisfaction of you being proved right. That would be no satisfaction to me if I was the one out of pocket.
This is form of practice in many business sectors and in many countries.
When an overseas company has folded in UK, it has rarely if ever brought down the parent company, just XXXXXXXUK Ltd. goes, often leaving behind a trail of debts.
June 5, 2007 at 8:12 am #72759
There is a court case coming up in chiclana (cadiz) (can’t remember where I read it). The seller is accused of selling a villa even though they knew it was illegaly built.
June 5, 2007 at 8:39 am #72760
At the risk of being patronising (of which I have been accused) can i say once again:-
Estate agents NEVER NEVER work for the buyer they are paid by the seller to sell. So at best they are working for the Sellers interest or more likely they are working for their own interest
If they are misselling and you find out (hopefully before they sell you something) take them to court.
I hope this is now clear.
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