[DBMarcos99]

This won’t make a lot of difference to EU members (although they still have to show they can support themselves?) but according to the article (in Spanish) they are hoping to attract more Chinese and Russians to live in Spain. Buy a property of at least 160k and you gain the residency permit.

http://www.elconfidencial.com/vivienda/2012/11/19/los-extranjeros-que-compren-piso-de-mas-de-160000-euros-tendran-permiso-de-residencia-109551/

[Chopera]

…and no questions asked.

Back to the good ol’ days of costa del crime then, you buy a house for €160k and we won’t ask where the money came from, and we’ll give you a new identity as well.

[angie]

Well said Chopera, when will this corrupt Spanish Government learn by past mistakes, when will they regulate properly, they’re a total shambles, it’s no wonder they are in such dire straits 🙄

No wonder the CDS is well known as the Costa del Crime, Spain is inviting more of the same 😡

Certainly doesn’t make for healthy and secure investment 🙄 🙄

[DBMarcos99]

I suspect this is quite a shrewd move, for once, by the Rajoy govt (isn’t it the case that 50k allows non-doms residence in the uk?)

They’ve set the figure high enough to scare away those with no means at all. But Russians or Chinese who for political or social reasons (perhaps they are gay or non-religious) can move to Spain if they wish…
The measure is yet to be law. But I suspect there will be property speculators who know Chinese or Russian agents who will now be interested in buying up a 100k or 200k property, and hope to sell on at 160k or 300k…

http://elpais.com/elpais/2012/11/19/inenglish/1353336904_703937.html

“In a few weeks’ time, a reform of the law regarding foreigners will be put in place to reactivate overseas abroad and contribute toward reducing the stock of housing,” the official said. He said the arrangement would mirror similar agreement established in Portugal, Ireland and the United States.

[angie]

Cannot dispute that it’s a shrewd move for once by Rajoy, the motive being to offload as much surplus housing stock even if it encourages more of the wrong sort to move to Spain which they will not consider until later methinks 🙄 It will be interesting to see how many will take this option up 🙄

[katy]

It is what a lot of tinpot 3rd world countries have been doing for years. Panama. Belize, etc. My favourite would be St. Kitts, invest $500 and pay no tax, no capital gains, no inheritance tax…added bonus it’s a lovely place 😀

[angie]

katy, we know the sort who generally take up the offers from those tinpot countries, crooks and tax evaders, don’t say Spain is going down that route too? 😉

[DBMarcos99]

Angie must think the UK is a tinpot country, by the numbers of Russians being allowed in London. Strange argument… wasn’t the US for years the top destination of immigrants around the world?

[Chopera]

@DBMarcos99 wrote:

Angie must think the UK is a tinpot country, by the numbers of Russians being allowed in London. Strange argument… wasn’t the US for years the top destination of immigrants around the world?

Judging by the amount of black money leaving Greece and entering the London property market then I’d say the UK is a tinpot country – for years it has taken a light touch approach towards all sorts of dodgy financial activity, provided it got a bit of revenue in return, and now it has become too dependent on it

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rentier_state

[katy]

AFAIK the UK does not auromatically give residencia ot visas 😕

[angie]

Well unfortunately the UK is becoming somewhat tinpot in certain ways (no country is immune), although better regulated and speedier court redress, however when katy mentioned tinpot she meant those ‘island’ nations (you know IMO where a lot of men wear much larger caps to look big, oops 🙄 ) with their low cash requirements for residency I think, I added Spain to that list in the light of Nessy’s post, caps haven’t been adopted yet I think the big difference though is that London property prices are sky high and a shortage too, unlike Spain’s so a much safer bet:roll:

[DBMarcos99]

Permanent residency in the UK for investors and entrepreneurs:

http://www.pwclegal.co.uk/services-people/a-shorter-route-to-permanent-residence-uk.jhtml

http://www.inhouselawyer.co.uk/index.php/immigration/9784-tier-1-investor-and-entrepreneur

A lot more expensive, but that always seems to be the case with the UK!

[DBMarcos99]

I think the big difference though is that London property prices are sky high and a shortage too, unlike Spain’s so a much safer bet

Let’s hope you’re right, although the signs are that London’s property market is going to face a dire future (the prices need to come down for the sakes of normal workers, but a crash would harm too many people). Already the City is laying off thousands of workers this year.
Worse still, the new prestige commercial buildings are in danger of becoming white elephants. Some projects have been stopped and put on ice. And the Shard, according to the Beeb, couldn’t find one financial tenant.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-20357816

At least six landmark projects – worth hundreds of millions of pounds – have been put on ice or cancelled altogether.
These include the 172m (564ft) 100 Bishopsgate skyscraper, on hold until developers secure enough advance tenants to make it viable.

[Anonymous]

UK has always allowed all & sundry as far they brought in capital. Some of the people with mega money are known internationally of their not very kosher activities.

UK than turns a blind eye and wait for any slip up to pull the rug & sieze their Assets e.g Gaddafi, Saddam, KIO ( Kuwait investment office ) Carlos the Jackal the infamous Columbian drug dealer to name a few. There are a few currently under their radar.

[DBMarcos99]

More on the proposed measure here:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/20/business/global/spain-seeks-foreign-home-buyers.html?_r=0

Spain normally grants visas that are valid for up to 90 days to citizens of countries that are outside the European Union. The residency permits for foreign home buyers would be for a much longer period of time but would not be open-ended. That detail has yet to be decided. The permits would also not grant the buyer the right to work in Spain.

[logan]

Any country in the world will give you residence permits if you bring sufficient money with you.
All Rajoy is doing with this current policy for Spain is offering it on the cheap.

It’s my life experience that when something is cheap, even cheaper people follow in it’s wake. Very bad idea. Spain is rife with crime and poverty they don’t need to add to it.

[Chopera]

@DBMarcos99 wrote:

I think the big difference though is that London property prices are sky high and a shortage too, unlike Spain’s so a much safer bet

Let’s hope you’re right, although the signs are that London’s property market is going to face a dire future (the prices need to come down for the sakes of normal workers, but a crash would harm too many people). Already the City is laying off thousands of workers this year.
Worse still, the new prestige commercial buildings are in danger of becoming white elephants. Some projects have been stopped and put on ice. And the Shard, according to the Beeb, couldn’t find one financial tenant.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-20357816

At least six landmark projects – worth hundreds of millions of pounds – have been put on ice or cancelled altogether.
These include the 172m (564ft) 100 Bishopsgate skyscraper, on hold until developers secure enough advance tenants to make it viable.

If what they say is true and the only thing propping up London prices is foreign money from the mega-wealthy then I think it needs to crash before it collapses. We’ve seen in Spain what happens when economies are based around selling property to foreigners – it works for a while but it soon creates a bubble, becomes unsustainable and the foreign investment can quickly dry up. The average Londoner either rents or would have bought several years ago and had a few years of low interest rates to pay down their mortgage. They should be able to survive a 20 to 30% drop in prices spread over a few years, and it would leave the rest in a position to buy a more affordable home and still have some change left over to put into the economy.

[angie]

London is a completely different property market to most of the UK, with a few exceptions. Probably down to London being the financial capital of the World, until this changes I don’t see London prices crashing soon, there may be some correction but hardly a crash. You can buy a detached house within an hour’s ride of London for the price of a 1-2 bedroom flat in town, almost impossible for 1st time buyers. 🙄

You cannot ignore too the old argument of supply and demand which makes the UK and Spain’s property market so different, Spain has a huge oversupply of property, and the UK doesn’t. I spoke to a UK agent yesterday about the market, an hour and a half from London, he says the market this year has been static but not fallen, unlike Spain’s.

Remember the expert Mark invited to talk on here in 2009, said Spanish prices would rise 10% per year, what a load of tosh, got it completely wrong and some poor people believed him and have seen their values fall drastically. Then the other indisputable fact some choose to ignore here is the 11% completion costs and the large selling costs meaning your property has to increase 20% just to break even, not so in the UK 🙄

[DBMarcos99]

@angie wrote:

London is a completely different property market to most of the UK, with a few exceptions. Probably down to London being the financial capital of the World, until this changes I don’t see London prices crashing soon, there may be some correction but hardly a crash. You can buy a detached house within an hour’s ride of London for the price of a 1-2 bedroom flat in town, almost impossible for 1st time buyers. 🙄

You cannot ignore too the old argument of supply and demand which makes the UK and Spain’s property market so different, Spain has a huge oversupply of property, and the UK doesn’t. I spoke to a UK agent yesterday about the market, an hour and a half from London, he says the market this year has been static but not fallen, unlike Spain’s.

Remember the expert Mark invited to talk on here in 2009, said Spanish prices would rise 10% per year, what a load of tosh, got it completely wrong and some poor people believed him and have seen their values fall drastically. Then the other indisputable fact some choose to ignore here is the 11% completion costs and the large selling costs meaning your property has to increase 20% just to break even, not so in the UK 🙄

Have you seen the numbers of jobs being cut by the banks in London. It’s those high paying jobs that keep prices inflated. Normal working folk can’t keep the prices inflated so high. There will be a correction in London, and it’s needed too.

The UK market is falling. I know from personal experience that prices are down in the Midlands.
Chart is not mine, just something I saw on another site that put together repeat sales figures for postcode areas. But judging by the Derby and Leicester figures it is spot on.

[angie]

If you read my post properly Mark Nessfield you will see that I said ‘London is a completely different property market to most of the UK’ 😆

You’ve missed the ‘supply and demand point too’ which makes Spain’s and the UK’s markets completely different too 🙄

And, you don’t comment on the point about Mark’s so called expert who predicted prices would rise 10% per year from 2009 in Spain, a load of vested rubbish 😆

BTW Jobs are being cut in the UK, somehow though I’d be surprised to see an unemployment rate of over 25%, and anything from 700,000 – 2 million unsold homes (no-one really knows true figure), check back on this in a year’s time 😆

[Anonymous]

I hope Mr Rajoy will also let the future residents know that their world income will be subject to Spanish income tax, whose top rate is above 50%, that they will need to declare assets held abroad annualy to the taxman where these exceed 50k€, that each forgotten or erroneous line of detail in said declaration attracts a fine of 5000€, that the source of any undeclared assets discovered in the future must be demonstrably legal and tax paid, if not the full amount discovered will be considered as income for the current year and that if one of the spouses dies the survivor must pay inheritance tax on jointly owned assets. Quite an attractive panorama, isn’t it?

[Anonymous]

@Clifford: I do agree with the overtly high,unfair,poor collection, unworkable rules and an oppresive taxation regime in Spain. This has caused Spain untold damage in the past & will continue to do so. Why do you think the rules are six months & a day. It is this day that makes them fiscal resident in Spain.

To be fair to Rajoy this not his job to point this out. You will be no doubt be aware that the high tax regime is in most med Countries & France is the biggest culprit. I have a very simple barometer if a Country has a Notary system ( a creation of Napolian) than the Country has high taxation. I stand corrected if the forum users can inform me otherwise.

[angie]

Well said Clifford, thank goodness you’ve come on here to elaborate more of the truth that is often hidden in the small print, as you say ‘quite an attractive panorama, isn’t it’?

There will always be people like Mark Nessfield who posts as DBMarcos99 on here and posts as steviedeluxe on BritishExpats.com, who continually mislead people with false hope and hype as to how well everything is in Spain. I only hope that people are not fooled by his posts into investing in Spain whilst all this mayhem continues, it’s tantamount to deception.

He does of course omit essential information such as that you’ve pointed out 🙄

[Anonymous]

My sister in law works in the london property market, selling to groups of investors she puts together she has spent a lot of time in hong kong this year finding investors.In the past they have come to her, there is a slow down in overseas investors but with the global slow down it is only to be expected.

[Anonymous]

Compare this with Dubai.

New “Multiple Visit Visas” have been announced by Dubai Government this week. There are several types of new visas and these are of

benefit to a range of cruise tourists, businessmen and property owners & their families.

6 Month Visit Visa for Property Owners

For ANY Property Owner the following benefits apply:-

-The visa will be for 6 months

-Property owners can stay for length of Visa (6 months)

-Dependents of Property owners can also stay 6 months at a time

-It allows multiple entries

-After 6 months a property owner can apply for another 6 months visa.

-Visa only allows residence – you would still have to apply for a work visa in order to work.

Note:

-This, 6 month visit visa, like all visas are issued by Ministry of Interior and NOT by Developers or Estate Agents.

-Buying any property does NOT entitle you to automatic lifelong residency in UAE

However, this is a welcome step. Previously the UAE Property Visa was only applicable to Properties over AED 1m. The new Visa applies to property at ANY price. This gives even those buying a low cost Studio property with investment of just £35,000 a 6 months renewable visa.

Investors can still use the normal 30/60 day “Tourist Visa” and tourists from many western countries get this visa free at the airport. However this is limited to 30 days with extension to 60 days at a time – not 6 months.

[Anonymous]

@dartboy; Your sister will than be aware of the boom in real estate in the far East. these investors have choice. While talk of Mansion Tax, higher stamp duty, uncertinaty of Europe etc has not helped.

Besides if an investor is sitting with a pile of cash and is risk averse. The Banks are not offering very much Gold & real estate is a safe bet for them. London comes top all things considered.

[DBMarcos99]

@angie wrote:

it’s tantamount to deception.

He does of course omit essential information such as that you’ve pointed out 🙄

Angie – you’re the one who only posts one side of the story. A bit rich of you to accuse others of omitting information. I’m not sure why you are emotionally attached to finding bad news about Spain (and yes, there is plenty about, but there are lots of opportunities there too). But as the tide turns in 2013 (and it will, which is why Spain is no longer finding it difficult to find buyers of its debt) you’re going to be more and more annoyed. All those disaster-scenarios you so-hoped for, are not going to happen. As to whether people should invest – yes, they should weigh up pros and cons. I’m certainly not going to advise others to invest anywhere whether Dubai, Spain or London- that’s their choice. I’m just hoping in the short run that my new web venture (prototype to be running within 2 weeks in stealth mode, January launch planned for Spain, February in Turkey) proves the success I think it will be. But in my case, I’m beginning to be put off my plan of running it from Spain, easy to stay in the UK, because of the prospect of higher taxes. Vamos a ver…

Here’s a very interesting link to “Myths about the Spanish economy”
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1200304/The%20Case%20for%20Spain%20presentation.pdf

Spain is competitive and able to grow:
• Exports are at record highs (above €200 bn., 22% of GDP), and they should keep growing due
to a cheap and productive labor force
• Revenues from tourism and other services are also at historic highs (€60 bn.) and continue to
grow
• Entrepreneurs and SMEs, supported by world class large companies, should lead Spain’s
economic growth model going forward

[angie]

No I don’t let people like you annoy me Mark Nessfield in fact I see the humorous side of your posts (you’ve now been exposed) which I look at occasionally on your Twitter site, your British Expats posts and your posts here etc all under different names, why? Now don’t start trying to accuse others (which you do) of doing the same, I’m referring to you! Your posts mainly follow a one sided theme of bigging things up in Spain which can mislead people, hence the reason some of us post the warning signs of which there are plenty. I’ve said before, you keep saying it and one day you might be right, by heck man you’ve banged the same drum for ages and still don’t point out the pitfalls 🙄

We visit Spain frequently too, we have several groups of friends there all of whom tell us they want to return to the UK, they tell us what it’s really like too as residents now, they’ve all lost big money on their property there, and we help when we can to sell (presentation of house and garden which works) despite this they are honest enough to warn others! We like the climate, the food and wines, and countryside (not the mass urbanised ruined hills of CDS etc), have said this often too but you don’t see that do you? I don’t think people are really fooled by your posts into thinking it’s all hunkdory, but we will carry on pulling you up when necessary, just in case:wink:

Talk about confused people that you accuse others of, you describe yourself ‘physically in London, heart in Madrid’, yet you can’t even decide whether to move at all, whether that might be Madrid, Valencia, Another, and Uncle Tom Cobbly and all, BTW all different, you might even buy up North in England. It’s like me saying my heart’s in Plymouth but I’m looking at Norwich and Manchester, so I’ll live in Calais because it’s cheaper 🙄

[DBMarcos99]

@angie wrote:

No I don’t let people like you annoy me Mark Nessfield in fact I see the humorous side of your posts (you’ve now been exposed) which I look at occasionally on your Twitter site, your British Expats posts and your posts here etc all under different names, why? Now don’t start trying to accuse others (which you do) of doing the same, I’m referring to you! Your posts mainly follow a one sided theme of bigging things up in Spain which can mislead people, hence the reason some of us post the warning signs of which there are plenty. I’ve said before, you keep saying it and one day you might be right, by heck man you’ve banged the same drum for ages and still don’t point out the pitfalls 🙄

We visit Spain frequently too, we have several groups of friends there all of whom tell us they want to return to the UK, they tell us what it’s really like too as residents now, they’ve all lost big money on their property there, and we help when we can to sell (presentation of house and garden which works) despite this they are honest enough to warn others! We like the climate, the food and wines, and countryside (not the mass urbanised ruined hills of CDS etc), have said this often too but you don’t see that do you? I don’t think people are really fooled by your posts into thinking it’s all hunkdory, but we will carry on pulling you up when necessary, just in case:wink:

Talk about confused people that you accuse others of, you describe yourself ‘physically in London, heart in Madrid’, yet you can’t even decide whether to move at all, whether that might be Madrid, Valencia, Another, and Uncle Tom Cobbly and all, BTW all different, you might even buy up North in England. It’s like me saying my heart’s in Plymouth but I’m looking at Norwich and Manchester, so I’ll live in Calais because it’s cheaper 🙄

Yep, you’re not annoyed at all, and have posted 3 long paragraphs to demonstrate it. 😆

[angie]

Yawn! More deception Mark Nessfield aka aka aka 😆 😆 😆

[GarySFBCN]

I hope Mr Rajoy will also let the future residents know that their world income will be subject to Spanish income tax, whose top rate is above 50%, that they will need to declare assets held abroad annualy to the taxman where these exceed 50k€, that each forgotten or erroneous line of detail in said declaration attracts a fine of 5000€, that the source of any undeclared assets discovered in the future must be demonstrably legal and tax paid, if not the full amount discovered will be considered as income for the current year and that if one of the spouses dies the survivor must pay inheritance tax on jointly owned assets. Quite an attractive panorama, isn’t it?

I believe this is true only if one establishes ‘fiscal residency.’ Also the rule seem a bit different for those of us who are not citizens of EU countries. I don’t believe the 6 months plus 1 day rule applies to those of us who are not European.

Overall, I don’t think this residency for money plan is good. It will encourage more money laundering by criminal elements; I expect to the see sex-traffic/sexual slavery increase. There will be more people in Spain who do not have the right to work (as if there are any jobs). Somehow the thinking seems to be that selling-off inventory, and in the process, maintaining prices as they are, is good for the economy. What will happen is that only foreigners will be able to afford homes in Spain, creating even more strife. Finally, it is yet another bail-out of the banking industry, an industry that has proven over and over again that is not worthy of anything but scorn.

[Anonymous]

Mark Nessfield has an account on facebook. I just sent him a request to be his friend on facebook. His facebook page has a photo of him. How cute. I am in the process of trying to become friends with all his friends on facebook, just to plug my website. On facebook I have been trying to join every group I can find to do with swingers in london, just so that I can plug my website of course. What other reason can I have for wanting to join a swingers group on Facebook?

[DBMarcos99]

@jakesuper wrote:

Mark Nessfield has an account on facebook. I just sent him a request to be his friend on facebook. His facebook page has a photo of him. How cute. I am in the process of trying to become friends with all his friends on facebook, just to plug my website.

I’m not sure that I’d advise anyone to be “friends” with someone who threatened to take an automatic rifle to a meetup 😆
You’re welcome to follow my twitter account – seems Angie already regularly looks it up 😆
Btw did you get plenty of links to your web from Burbuja (the Spanish equivalent to HPC) ?

[Anonymous]

I didn’t know about Burbuja. Thanks for mentioning it. Shame I don’t know any Spanish, but I will try to gain access to Burbuja anyway just to plug my website. I have sent loads of emails to various news organisations and journalists in the Western World plugging my website but I still only get about five hits a day which is pathetic really. I suppose its because people already know that Spain is a disaster area already and don’t need me telling them what they know already.

[angie]

Mark Nessfield and his photo (looks a bit lonely) appear on so many forums in different guises, plus Linkedin, as you say Facebook, all sorts of tweeting, even one of his so called mates emailed me when I asked the question about Nessfield’s various aliases and using the word Troll to describe said person, it’s a wonder he finds time for his web work! 😆 😆 😆

He leaves a footprint everywhere he goes, hilarious, and now he’s been rumbled 😆 😆

[DBMarcos99]

@jakesuper wrote:

I didn’t know about Burbuja. Thanks for mentioning it. Shame I don’t know any Spanish, but I will try to gain access to Burbuja anyway just to plug my website. I have sent loads of emails to various news organisations and journalists in the Western World plugging my website but I still only get about five hits a day which is pathetic really. I suppose its because people already know that Spain is a disaster area already and don’t need me telling them what they know already.

If you go on LinkedIn there are various groups that speak about Spain, and have discussions. You may be able to slip in a link or two there.

[DBMarcos99]

@angie wrote:

Mark Nessfield and his photo (looks a bit lonely) appear on so many forums in different guises, plus Linkedin, as you say Facebook, all sorts of tweeting, even one of his so called mates emailed me when I asked the question about Nessfield’s various aliases and using the word Troll to describe said person, it’s a wonder he finds time for his web work! 😆 😆 😆

He leaves a footprint everywhere he goes, hilarious, and now he’s been rumbled 😆 😆

Rumbled? You really are misguided! Anyone who wants to look at my Twitter stuff is welcome, the more the merrier! 🙂 (I don’t put the link here because I respect Mark’s rules)

[angie]

Confused again Nessy? Rumbled meaning your aliases on different forums etc get a grip! 😆

But to get back to the topic, would you care to comment on Clifford’s revelations as to buying residency permission in Spain with all the strings attached? It’s this sort of thing that people do need to be made aware of when investing or buying anywhere especially in Spain as this is the forum for such 🙄

[DBMarcos99]

@angie wrote:

Confused again Nessy? Rumbled meaning your aliases on different forums etc get a grip! 😆

But to get back to the topic, would you care to comment on Clifford’s revelations as to buying residency permission in Spain with all the strings attached? It’s this sort of thing that people do need to be made aware of when investing or buying anywhere especially in Spain as this is the forum for such 🙄

Sigh.. you and katy have constantly (and incorrectly) accused me of various things, including being an agent in disguise, owning property in Spain etc etc – at one time I was even accused of being a govt agent 😆 You have been constantly wrong in your accusations, so if anyone has been “rumbled” it’s been you you. Consistently…

As for Clifford’s points regarding tax issues I agree that they are a concern, and a mistaken policy by the govt. In fact they are counter-productive as more dealings are then done on the black – which is probably why the new law forbidding large cash transactions has been brought in.

[angie]

Yawn again to your 1st para Mark Nessfield, methinks a bit too much waccy baccy there or paranoia 😆

katy you’ve missed some great fun with Nessy 😉

Your 2nd para Nessy, ok and sensible there, hoo bloody ray 😮

[Fuengi (Andrew)]

@Clifford Chambers wrote:

I hope Mr Rajoy will also let the future residents know that their world income will be subject to Spanish income tax, whose top rate is above 50%, that they will need to declare assets held abroad annualy to the taxman where these exceed 50k€, that each forgotten or erroneous line of detail in said declaration attracts a fine of 5000€, that the source of any undeclared assets discovered in the future must be demonstrably legal and tax paid, if not the full amount discovered will be considered as income for the current year and that if one of the spouses dies the survivor must pay inheritance tax on jointly owned assets. Quite an attractive panorama, isn’t it?

I think you are confusing being a resident in Spain and being a fiscal resident. This residency seems more to allow those who can currently stay in spain 90 days, longer stay if they own a property. These people would not be able to work here, simply enjoy extended holiday.

[Fuengi (Andrew)]

also I am surprised by people talking about black money, and how this will attract less salubrious types.

First, most of these buyers would have to have the cash to purchase a property, as getting financing in Spain would be difficult. So most would have to have 175.000€ to spend on a holiday home. So not exactly lacking money.
Second, if they are purchasing at this price, at notary it would have to be declared from which spanish bank the money has come from. And prior to sending the money to Spain, it has to come from the buyer bank in country X.
Third, these people would be able to stay in Spain longer than the maximum 90 days, but its not open ended. Nor would they be able to work in Spain. I would assume it would be up to 6 months, but who knows. So your letting someone buy a holiday home and enjoy it.

To me, if managed correctly (I can hope) this could be a real benefit to a country whose main industry is tourism.

[angie]

The more I look at the detail of this new initiative the more it looks half-baked and not thought out properly:

‘It wants to attract foreigners who are obviously rich’ – 160k euros min. requirement for housing, is not ‘rich’ housing. 🙄

A backlash from other EU members is expected as a Spanish passport will mean these new immigrants can work in all 27 member states. 😯 This could cause major upset, all countries could offer similar schemes and the EU get flooded with how many new immigrants taking the available jobs for existing nationals 😯

This article claims there are between 700,000 and 1.1 million unsold new homes, there’s a big difference there of 400,000, and, how many 2nd hand re-sales are there? 😯

Again no-one seems to know the true figures for Spain’s unsold homes, new or resale, why not? Mark, as SPI owner/administrator, do you know this answer? 🙄 ❓

[Fuengi (Andrew)]

@angie wrote:

The more I look at the detail of this new initiative the more it looks half-baked and not thought out properly:

‘It wants to attract foreigners who are obviously rich’ – 160k euros min. requirement for housing, is not ‘rich’ housing. 🙄

A backlash from other EU members is expected as a Spanish passport will mean these new immigrants can work in all 27 member states. 😯 This could cause major upset, all countries could offer similar schemes and the EU get flooded with how many new immigrants taking the available jobs for existing nationals 😯

This article claims there are between 700,000 and 1.1 million unsold new homes, there’s a big difference there of 400,000, and, how many 2nd hand re-sales are there? 😯

Again no-one seems to know the true figures for Spain’s unsold homes, new or resale, why not? Mark, as SPI owner/administrator, do you know this answer? 🙄 ❓

Hi Angie, can you supply a source that shows that spain will be giving passports? can’t seem to find it. thanks

[angie]

Hi Andrew, the full article from the Telegraph is here, in the 4th Paragraph the writer makes a reference to this could ‘pave the way to a Spanish passport’ so it doesn’t come automatically but I’m sure if they’re given full residency they will either be offered or will apply for passports. It’s all to be agreed first but I think other EU countries will have something to say about conditions.

My own view, especially with the Chinese expected that they probably will all want Spanish passports or dual nationality, maybe the Russians and others too, opening the doors to the rest of Europe 🙄

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/spain/9689008/Foreigners-offered-chance-to-stay-in-Spain-for-130000.html

Of course, if it happens and they get passports, I would think a load of them will head to the UK because of the benefits system, you see, I don’t think 160k euros is classed as rich money, families club together and they all come in then, and maybe taking much needed jobs for locals 🙄

[Anonymous]

My confusion resident and fiscal resident: Mr Rajoy is allegedly trying to attract citizens from Russia and China who may have reasons to wish to leave their mother country. If they buy a home in Spain they risk becoming fiscal residents, since their arrival and leaving dates will be stamped in their passports and “short sporadic visits abroad” are counted by the taxman as being spent in Spain. Thus they may find themselves inadvertently becoming fiscal residents once they have spent over 183 days per year in Spain or on a “short sporadic visits” abroad. Whether the Spanish taxman would pick them up is another question.

http://www.arcos-lamersasociados.com/632/when-is-a-person-considered-resident-in-spain-spanish-accountant-is-giving-you-the-answer/

[Anonymous]

“managed correctly” The only thing that gets managed correctly in Spain is the Feria !!!!

In regards to residency like anyone coming into a Country has to qualify by spending a number years, good character, contribute to society etc,etc.

As mentioned on the thread other Countries like UK, Canada, Australia, New zealand & others already have such policies in place. Frankly if you can bring money/skills any country will welcome you.

[Anonymous]

The lastest news is that Rajoy & co. say this is still just a proposal, not a done deal – bit of back-peddling going on 🙂 José Manuel Soria, Minister for Industry, says the decision is not taken.

[Anonymous]

Like everythink else it is ” si” or ” no” or other times it is “no” & “si ” and they expect people will just
hand over €160,000 on a plate because sun only shines in Spain !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Chopera]

@mark wrote:

The lastest news is that Rajoy & co. say this is still just a proposal, not a done deal – bit of back-peddling going on 🙂 José Manuel Soria, Minister for Industry, says the decision is not taken.

Same as nearly every other “decision” they have taken. They were also talking about moving the national holidays to the weekends to stop people taking puentes. In the end they’ve moved one or two but left the rest (probably because they’re religious festivals).

[Anonymous]

Cannot upset the “Opus Dei” !!!!!!!!!!!!!! Can they ???

[Anonymous]

@shakeel wrote:

Cannot upset the “Opus Dei” !!!!!!!!!!!!!! Can they ???

Jesus, despite the series of exclamation and question marks, you’re entering into strange territory. I don’t know how extreme religious organisations affect property markets, but I suppose they may.

Spain is a Catholic country, the UK is still Anglican – but wavering, and the other main Northern European buyers of Spanish property are mostly Anglo-Saxon protestants.

It’s probably a daft consideration, a million Brits have come to Spain – for the sun, the cheapness, the ambience, the excitement, the opportunity to walk about in shorts in winter, eating pinchos in the sun (I had some earlier),

[Anonymous]

@Rocker my posting was in response to Chopera’s posting

“probably because they’re religious festivals. We should not forget that the Catholic Church has the probebly the highest number of real estate on their balance sheet.

[angie]

Yes back to the subject shakeel what’s religion got to do with it? 🙄

[DBMarcos99]

People (both Spanish and Brits resident in Madrid) have told me that the Opus Dei have an undue influence on government policy – particularly with the PP. And I have seen the odd article over the years claiming they have influence. Having said that, it’s very hard to prove or disprove it here. Unless we have a Spanish journalist or politician who lurks here (and is willing to tell us the truth!!)

[Anonymous]

They do indeed not sure what it has to do with this proposal though.

[angie]

Exactly Ardun 😉

[Chopera]

@DBMarcos99 wrote:

People (both Spanish and Brits resident in Madrid) have told me that the Opus Dei have an undue influence on government policy – particularly with the PP. And I have seen the odd article over the years claiming they have influence. Having said that, it’s very hard to prove or disprove it here. Unless we have a Spanish journalist or politician who lurks here (and is willing to tell us the truth!!)

I’ve heard the same rumours. Esperanza Aguire and Ana Botella have been strongly linked to Opus Dei (which in the day had strong links with Franco I believe). To be honest I don’t know what Opus Dei is though.

[angie]

Here’s something about them Chopera:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/may/30/opus-dei

Although what they have to do with ‘160k euros will buy residency permission in Spain’ seems plain daft, IMO I wouldn’t think such an organisation would particularly want the country flooded with new immigrants from China, Russia and the like 😆

[Chopera]

@angie wrote:

Here’s something about them Chopera:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/may/30/opus-dei

Although what they have to do with ‘160k euros will buy residency permission in Spain’ seems plain daft, IMO I wouldn’t think such an organisation would particularly want the country flooded with new immigrants from China, Russia and the like 😆

yeah but speculating about secretive sects with strong links to politicians and the catholic church is far more interesting than “160k euros will buy residency permission in Spain” 😆

[angie]

How right you are Chopera 😆 I expect the secret El Cid Society will pop up some time to have a say on residency permits 😆

[katy]

All the economic fiasco needs is a good old-fashioned conspiracy theory

[DBMarcos99]

Looks like this plan could have major implications for the region

Morocco fears capital flight to Spain.

http://elpais.com/elpais/2012/12/06/inenglish/1354816241_590409.html

“Of course I’m interested if they give me a residence permit and one to my wife and two children,” says Ahmed, a small businessman in the northeast of Morocco who normally spends his summer vacation in Fuengirola on Spain’s Costa del Sol. “Instead of renting, we would make the effort to buy an apartment and in that way the visa thing would be over. At last, we would be able to travel about Europe freely.”

[angie]

😆 😆 I’ve heard it all now, Chinese, Russians, Norwegians and now Morrocans, no doubt with bags of cash and bags of hash 😆 😆 Might do the trick, who knows, watch out UK, one small step for Morrocans one giant leap to benefits 🙄 😉

[DBMarcos99]

@DBMarcos99 wrote:

Looks like this plan could have major implications for the region

Morocco fears capital flight to Spain.

http://elpais.com/elpais/2012/12/06/inenglish/1354816241_590409.html

“Of course I’m interested if they give me a residence permit and one to my wife and two children,” says Ahmed, a small businessman in the northeast of Morocco who normally spends his summer vacation in Fuengirola on Spain’s Costa del Sol. “Instead of renting, we would make the effort to buy an apartment and in that way the visa thing would be over. At last, we would be able to travel about Europe freely.”

The more I read about this, the more I feel that Rajoy&co are trying to use this proposed measure as a leverage against the Germans and ECB. “Either bring down our costs of borrowing within the Euro, or we’ll ‘encourage and give residency permission’ to huge numbers of foreigners. Good luck with stopping them crossing into other European countries”. I’m of the opinion that the Moroccan middle classes with 160+ to spare, will not be a problem and indeed benefit Spain , but I rather suspect some in the PP won’t see it that way. They will hold the memory that previous invasions from north Africa ended up on a sour note.

[angie]

Actually I agree with you there Nessy on your points in last post 😯

[Anonymous]

I’ve picked up a news report at El Confidencial saying that the Government is going to raise the bar to 500,000€ investment, plus some other conditions, for non-EU nationals to get a residency permit in Spain. But there’s been almost no other mention of this in the wider Spanish press, which is strange considering how much coverage this idea got when it was first announced.

Anyone heard anything more about this?

[Anonymous]

Yes and once some one has committed. The bar will be increased again. Typical Spain. They don’t seem to realise that these kind of amounts & decisions are life changing for people and their families.

[Anonymous]

To be honest though. Do you really think people being able to foot 150-200k euros for an apartment or a house will really be such a drain on the economy or raise crime statistics? These will not be allowed health care etc free of charge. Probably a saner alternative to the free movement of certain groups from eastern europe with no ways of supporting them at all.

[DBMarcos99]

No way of proving my earlier assertion (the govt putting pressure on the EU/ECB to lower bond costs otherwise a flood of migrants with the 160k level), but it does seem to have panned out that way. The costs of Spain’s bonds have fallen sharply, and now the government is saying 500k will be needed to gain residency…

[Chopera]

@mark wrote:

I’ve picked up a news report at El Confidencial saying that the Government is going to raise the bar to 500,000€ investment, plus some other conditions, for non-EU nationals to get a residency permit in Spain. But there’s been almost no other mention of this in the wider Spanish press, which is strange considering how much coverage this idea got when it was first announced.

Anyone heard anything more about this?

Yes it makes sense. That group is more likely to leave over €100k in their bank accounts, which will do nicely when it comes to bailout time

[angie]

Even Spain’s finance minister Montoro says Spanish deposit accounts will not be taxed as happened in Cyprus, so that’s ok then? 😕 🙄

[Anonymous]

Secretary of State for the Economy and Business Support, Fernando Jiménez Latorre, has confirmed that the Government will soon introduced residency permits for property investors, but wouldn’t say what the threshold will be.

[Anonymous]

Vicepresident Soraya Sáenz de Santamaría today confirmed the threshold will be €500,000

[Author]

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