Re: Re: Turning point?


@Rocker wrote:

@Chopera wrote:

@Rocker wrote:

The anti-Euro (the currency) debate has been raging for the past 20 years. I’ve lived in Spain for that time and followed it from the sidelines, which is not strictly true because when the Peseta went, much to my disgust, I started to lose money on my British earnings. I’m down around 30% since then. My Spanish earnings went down too, but for other reasons.

Obviously, it the UK votes Out from the EU altogether, I would have to leave Spain, and so would several hundred thousand others; possibly close to a million Brits would be homeward bound.

Not only for personal reasons, I believe the UK would be badly affected if it left the EU; the sensible reasons have been discussed here and elsewhere many times and only the staunch nationalists refuse to understand the obvious logic behind such a disastrous move.

But nationalists seem to be making a comeback all across Europe, maybe they’re fed up with 60 years of peace and it makes me sad when I hear them complaining about the Nobel peace prize going to the EU. What would they prefer? Another war?

The nationalist Catalonians, the Basques, the NPD in Germany, the similar mob in Hungary (I don’t know what they’re called), Le Pen’s mob in France, UKIP and the BNP in our pleasant land; all want to go back to the caves, blue eyes versus brown eyes, Protestants versus Catholics, Christians versus Muslims.

We won’t get another Peace Prize, that’s for sure.

You really think that post WW2 peace was down to an organisation that didn’t formally come into existence until nearly half a century after WW2 finished? Nothing to do with Germany being disarmed and split? Nothing to do with NATO? Nothing to do with a few thousand nuclear missiles being pointed at Europe from the USSR? Nothing to do with half of Europe being occupied by the USSR?

And if you really feel proud of joining a list of “Peace Prize” winners that includes the likes of Kissinger, Rabin, Peres, Arafat, Hull, Begin, and Barak “drone attack” Obama then fine, but don’t expect everyone else to take the same view. The Nobel Peace Prize is a smear and if, as you suggest, it has been given to “us” then they can shove the bit given to me where the sun don’t shine. 👿 👿 👿

We seem to differ at a fundamental level here, a good opportunity for a discussion. Basically I suppose it’s our different interpretation of one word, namely Peace.

Splitting and disarming Germany leading to peace? I would suggest the opposite and point to a treaty of 1918. NATO and 40 years of cold war being a peaceful event, not in my view. A few thousand Russian and American missiles facing each other doesn’t seem very peaceful to me. I don’t remember half of Europe being occupied by the USSR.

I think Churchill first muted the idea of the EU as soon as 1945.

And if you regard the Nobel Peace Prize as a smear, then I don’t know what to say – I’ve never heard it described that way before.

So when it comes to NATO there was no peace in Europe for 40 years after WW2 but when it comes to the EU there was?