- This topic has 36 replies, 11 voices, and was last updated 14 years, 8 months ago by
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Responce 1
Hello My Friend,
I have seen the video of Zapatero,I do not know what he answered because the last picture in the video it was him finishing listening the translation.I do not agree with that lady,foreigners should get the rigt information.
before they buy those cheap houses and know the urbanistic plans and the law(too near the coast..etc etc).It is happening everywhere not only to foreigners also to spaniards. If you want to buy a house under the sun and very cheap…..you should know what you are getting,don´t you think?
Big kiss,big hug and good luck -
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response 2b
if you check every possible problem to arise between the junta and ayuntamiento, this does not happen because you never get to buy the house. You know as I do that there are places where one would not dare to buy a house.Unfair? yes, it sounds so, but I do not know every detail. In England they take every chance to destroy Spain´s reputation regarding vacational sites.I have seen that on the news 30 years ago. What they do not seem to talk about is all the happy people who have chosen Spain to live and remain happy here. Most of them have got a house they could have never afford to buy in England, not to talk about the weather. ANd, many of the english people who buy a property here, break the law as soon as they can because they simply think that here, you can do it and get away with it. I have seen that in Vejer also, believe me.People are people.The sad thing is here and theres some people are totally innocent and victims of this situations. But life is unfair everywhere. And I don´t believe what the news say, in general they have been manipulated from one side or the other, and there are many interests behind. SO, they should go to a judge, and wait for a few years. -
As you all can see that these friends of mine speak very good English. They are well travelled and have lived in other Countries. They own properties and have built & restored them.
So, what do we all think ??????????? If this can be taken as a sample of the attitude of the enlightened ones. We can see how much needs to be done.
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I find those responses very typical of spanish people. The same can be read on many spanish forums. The truth is they could not care less about foreigners. Some are beginning to realise the devasting effect the drop in residential tourism and holiday tourism is having but most do not. The fact is that without the British and to a lesser extent other Europeans the Andalucian economy would grind to a halt, there is little else to keep the wheels turning.
There is none so deaf as those who do not want to hear.
There is none so blind as those who do not want to see.A recent article in the spanish press re. the Piors saw 3 comments, similar to the above ones. An article yesterday saying there could be demolitions in a Spanish area of Málaga there was 24….says it all really 🙄
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@shakeel wrote:
Goodstich44. As I know these people very well and have known for decades. I can assure you they are not the type who will go into denial mode.
IMHO they are definitely in denial, as if everything is the fault of the guiri buying in Spain. They seem to accept a situation where one can can legally buy a property and have it knocked down as normal. 😕 We don’t read of these huge numbers of illegal propeties in other leading european countries, it’s only in Spain where corruption rules on such an unprecedented scale.
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Man in Marbella
the very threat of demolition when you are in the right and have legal papers to prove so, must be unbearable. Perhaps we should be asking how many are in potential danger of demolition?, and why these people are put in this threatening situation through no fault of their own?.
If it’s 1 person or 100, does that make it any more right?
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I think the ignorance comes down to how its been reported in the press.
Was in Norway recently talking about illegal builds, etc… and my father in-law brought up a consortium of owner who had got together to build a an urbanisation and it ws later classified as illegal as the land was not urban and how they all lost large sums of money.
He and family had no idea who the Priors were or that there was such an issue on the Costa Blanca. They know about Axarquia, again due to norwegian buyers.Even the few shows talking about the property scandals that have been aired in the UK concentrate on the british buyers, as it will make for a more interesting program than talking about germans, dutch or Spanish.
2 things need to happen. A high profile Spanish version of the Priors
and maybe a more in depth report about the failures that lead to the prior (and equivalent) situations. the Corruption, incompetent legal representation, etc…As it stands now many spanish (and other nationalities) assume that all the buyers, were naive, greedy, etc… when they bought their properties.
I don’t remember who it was on this forum (goodstich maybe?) who done all the relevant checks, used an independent lawyer, etc… yet still got caught up in this huge mess due to marbella townhall corruption.
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@Man in Marbella wrote:
Can anybody tell me, other than the Priors house, how many houses have been demolished in Spain.
I don’t know the current figure, but in the first nine months of 2007, 665 properties were demolished purely by falling into the ‘built too near the coast’ (Ley de Costas) category.
And as I posted on the Albox thread yesterday, it looks like the determination is hardening in Málaga City Hall re. demolition orders generally.
Diario Sur says: after cases seen in Sayalonga, Almogía and Carratraca, where the law has been applied inflexibly, the City Hall has decided to move forward with demolition orders which have been pending for many years, and which simply have not been carried out before because of their unpopularity.
It looks like they’ve decided they don’t give a hoot whether it’s unpopular or not, nor the effect it will have regarding ‘confidence in the market’.
As Goodstich said, just having the threat hanging over one’s head is enough to send one over the brink with worry.
http://www.typicallyspanish.com/news/publish/article_24834.shtml -
You are probably correct Fuengi. The spanish media has not given the Priors much coverage. Even some British on other spanish forums have taken to appeasement and claim the Priors must have done something wrong!
I have Norwegian friends who have a second home in Marbella. Two years ago one of them said they were going to sell it. I mentioned that properties were not selling well and prices had stalled. She was genuinely shocked 😆
There is this one about a German who is affected so maybe the Germans are aware
http://www.typicallyspanish.com/news/publish/article_24796.shtml
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But properties are selling. Not as many as in past years and at greatly reduced prices but as far as I am aware there are people out there buying what they consider to be bargains. I have friends in Estepona who have been renting for the last 6 years and are now just about to put a deposit down on a villa. they live here and so know exactly what the market is like.
An estate agent friend of mine tells me that the Norwegians are very active at the moment.
My original question on how many demolitions was not meant to trivialise the matter. Of course, any threat of demolition is serious and not right. However, I live in Marbella and I hear all these things about demolition, corruption, violence and I can honestly say I do not see any of it. Maybe I’m lucky or live a sheltered live? Maybe other areas are different? I just think some facts would be good rather than the constant “Spain is corrupt, buy there and you will have your house demolished” etc etc -
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@Man in Marbella wrote:
My original question on how many demolitions was not meant to trivialise the matter. Of course, any threat of demolition is serious and not right. However, I live in Marbella and I hear all these things about demolition, corruption, violence and I can honestly say I do not see any of it. Maybe I’m lucky or live a sheltered live? Maybe other areas are different? I just think some facts would be good rather than the constant “Spain is corrupt, buy there and you will have your house demolished” etc etc
Well there isn’t anything to see is there, only been 2 demolitions in Marbella, both unoccupied. I did see a demo last week by residents of Banana beach, just happened to be passing. Just because you don’t see it doesn’t mean it isn’t happening and the local newspaper is full of stories of corruption etc.
BTW which agency do you work for 😆
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Katy – I don’t work for an agency. I don’t work full stop.
Yes the papers are full of “stories” and this forum is full of people “talking” about corruption and violence and problems in Spain”.
You have just said there have not been demolition problems in Marbella so maybe the problems are eleswhere in Spain?
My point is that I carry on my life here with local people of all nationalities, eating out, playing golf, doing social things and I can honestly say that I don’t know of anybody who has had a problem with the corruption that people are talking about. What I am interested in is some facts because I seem to live in a completely different place to the painted in the papers, TV and this forum. -
@Man in Marbella wrote:
However, I live in Marbella and I hear all these things about demolition, corruption, violence and I can honestly say I do not see any of it.
What I am interested in is some facts…….
Crikey, I would have thought there have been enough facts floated about to fill and sink the Titanic. Incidentally, why do you think Rocca is in jail – assessing a new planning application?
But going by your theory, obviously if you don’t ‘see’ any of it, it simply doesn’t exist then.
Why not pop along to Banana Beach and have a chat with the residents, see how they’re enjoying life – maybe you could lend them your rose-tinted glasses. -
katy
c’mon you know Marta made up all that stuff to Zapetero, and Suzanne hasn’t got hundreds of signatures, and the courts arn’t almost log-jammed for years with cases of fraud and corruption, and as for overbuilds, What overbuilds?, what quality problems?, what demolitions, what justice problems?
I don’t know why we dream these things up…….. Doom mongers, the lot of us! -
“Overbuilds”…don’t get me started on that topic! Blow the lot up I say and give owners compensation from the Brussels allocation for Spain. 😆 😉
Not so many years ago I would drive to Santa Maria Golf club through cork and pine forests, the only building in sight a pretty converted Cortijo for the Golf house. Last few times I went I got lost through all the new streets and urbanisations!
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@katy wrote:
Not so many years ago I would drive to Santa Maria Golf club through cork and pine forests, the only building in sight a pretty converted Cortijo for the Golf house. Last few times I went I got lost through all the new streets and urbanisations!
Mmmm… bit over the top on that one I think Katy.
Turn first right after coming over the bridge and go down the road to Santa Maria and its still mainly cork and pine trees, go up Avda Espana turn right at the roundabout and there are apartments on your left yes but trees on your right no, and then you are into Santa Maria. Much more built up than it was, I have pictures of that area 20 years ago and it was just scrub yes, but not quite a journey through streets and urbanisations…
Which brings me to Los Altos de Marbella, for some reason I haven’t actually been up there for something like 10 years myself, although we sold quite a few properties up there.
I was bored on the last wet Sunday no golf course open so went up on the round behind Santa Clara down from the Hospital, drove all the way up and parked at a Mirador to look down on the coast, jeeze all the road infrastructure and pavements battered and worn, scrub growing out everywhere it was unreal, could have been a lovely drive but felt like i was heading into somewhere sinister, but considering the coast is “overbuilt” I don’t think we seen anything yet. In 10 years they will be filling in all that space too, there is a vast land mass unbuilt when you look down from Los Altos, there are areas of course of overbuild and just a woeful disgraceful density, but from an aerial view there are vast tracts yet. I felt sorry for the new builds up there though I have to say, all that promise and potential lost, now the drive up to La Mairena is actually far better. But the view shows what will eventually happen between Elviria and Rio Real, being the same as Elviria to Hacienda Las Chapas.
Lets hope the planners in future just don’t do the density thing though.
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[quote=”charlie
Crikey, I would have thought there have been enough facts floated about to fill and sink the Titanic. Incidentally, why do you think Rocca is in jail – assessing a new planning application?
But going by your theory, obviously if you don’t ‘see’ any of it, it simply doesn’t exist then.
Why not pop along to Banana Beach and have a chat with the residents, see how they’re enjoying life – maybe you could lend them your rose-tinted glasses.quote]Yes I know Roca is in jail. For taking bribes from developers and allowing excesive building which as far as i can see has been or is just about to be legalised. Do you peronally know anybody who has been a victim of corruption or does anybody on this forum know of anybody? I agree overbuiding has gone on but the coast is what it is. Some say overbuilt others not. We don’t need a forum to tell us it’s overbuilt peopel can come and make up their own minds but to contstantly run the place down on corruption is another matter.
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@Man in Marbella wrote:
Do you peronally know anybody who has been a victim of corruption or does anybody on this forum know of anybody?
Ok Frank – so you want to play? 😆
If your memory is that bad I suggest you do a search for the ‘Green Hills’ threads. You can read your own posts (and mine) and refresh your memory…… 😉 -
I certainly know lots of people who have been victims of corruption, but then I live in Almería.
Here’s a video from YouTube made by a local Brit about the recent demonstration in Almería.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fq5uOry5gEM -
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I was accused of bing Frank before. Presumably Frank was someone else who refused to constanly run Spain down. I see some posters on here with thousands of posts to their name which all appear negative. That in my book is sad! If you hate Spain so much why go on a Spanish forum so many times running the place down.
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@Man in Marbella wrote:
Can anybody tell me, other than the Priors house, how many houses have been demolished in Spain.
Do you peronally know anybody who has been a victim of corruption or does anybody on this forum know of anybody?
If you don’t like the replies, don’t ask the questions then.
@Man in Marbella wrote:
If you hate Spain so much why go on a Spanish forum so many times running the place down.
Shakeel started this thread about Marta Andreasen confronting Zapatero regarding demolitions which mostly are a result of corruption, and giving us an insight to his friends’ take on it.
If the idea of discussing this gets to you, suggest you don’t read it and start your own thread that appeals to you more. This is a forum and this is what happens here, we debate topics. 🙄I assume you haven’t had a chat with the residents of Banana Beach yet.
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@mark wrote:
Man in Marbella,
You pick the wrong fight if you want to defend Marbella of corruption charges. It became world famous for its corruption.
Yep, I second that, definitely not a fight I would pick or even hope to win.
Stick to being upbeat about what’s good and works, we can’t defend the completely indefensible really.
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katy wrote:I find those responses very typical of spanish people. The same can be read on many spanish forums. The truth is they could not care less about foreigners. Some are beginning to realise the devasting effect the drop in residential tourism and holiday tourism is having but most do not. The fact is that without the British and to a lesser extent other Europeans the Andalucian economy would grind to a halt, there is little else to keep the wheels turning.
There is none so deaf as those who do not want to hear.
There is none so blind as those who do not want to see.A recent article in the spanish press re. the Piors saw 3 comments, similar to the above ones. An article yesterday saying there could be demolitions in a Spanish area of Málaga there was 24….says it all really 🙄
You are quite correct Katy, the average Spaniard just does n´t get it, it is always someone else´s fault, its a plot by the British media to stop people coming to Spain. It is the fault of the Americans, the Eskimos anyone but the Spanish.
I talk to lots of Spaniards with varying degrees of intelligence but their response is that it is n´t a problem, it is the fault of the people who bought the property, they seem to think all foreigners are money launderers and worse.
There is a very bearish article in the Daily Telegraph
I have written many times that the only way to make the authorities in Spain put their house in order is to hit them in the pocket, stop all EU monies coming to Spain. Spain should never have been allowed to take over the Presidency for 6 months. Marta and Michael Cashman can
send letters to Zapatero, make speeches in Strasbourg but the Cobbler ,Zapatero will turn a deaf ear and continue doing his Mr Bean impressions. -
@Chris McCarthy wrote:
@mark wrote:
Man in Marbella,
You pick the wrong fight if you want to defend Marbella of corruption charges. It became world famous for its corruption.
Yep, I second that, definitely not a fight I would pick or even hope to win.
Stick to being upbeat about what’s good and works, we can’t defend the completely indefensible really.
I am honestly not trying to defend Marbella of corruption charges. I am aware that there has been corruption and as a result many politicians fined and jailed. As I understand it the town hall/regional government have agreed to legalise everything built to ensure innocent buyers do not suffer. I am aware of Banana beach and without wishing to trivialise that, it is just one building and even that has not demolished. I am not aware of the problems of Green Hills but that also, has not been demolished.
Everybody is right to campaign to reduce corruption as much as possible and I support that. What I am trying to do is put some perspective on it. Whenever, I look in on this forum I honestly leave it thinking I must live in a different Country. I think anybody contemplating buying a property here and reading this forum would think that if they buy here, their property is going to be demolished at some point in the future and that they are going to be subjected to drug pushing, street shootings, violence and robbery.
Anyway, I shall gracefully bow out of this debate, put my rose tinted specs on and go for a stroll along the Paseo and have a coffee in the sunshine.
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http://www.andalucia.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=21391&p=190500#p190500
Not wishing to be accused of spoiling the whose leaving thread 🙄 I have
tacked this on here, if you see my posts on one I have translated a couple of comments from spaniards. Unfortunately, the comments have now disappeared from the article but out of 40+ only two supported the British buyers.
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