May 3, 2010 at 10:27 pm #55573
Having tired of extortionate car hire prices we decided to buy a used car in Spain. Sounds like a good idea….? Huh. Find a car at the local Ford dealership, try to haggle but no go, hey ho I’ll pay the full price after all I am desperate. So, they want my NIE, copy of passport and certificate from town hall that I’m on the padron. No can do, cannot go on padron unless resident in Spain. So, I’m told by my Spanish solicitor that I can get something from the town hall “‘Informe de Alcaldía para compra de vehículo en España’ (without ’empadronamiento’, because the ’empadronamiento’ would mean that you are resident in Spain, and in this case you’d have to pay your taxes -income tax- here and not in the UK).”, he has spoken to the traffico in Castellon, Madrid and somewhere else about this. But I have to go to the town hall with originals of my house deeds, no probs, my passport, no probs and NIE, big probs. My NIE was issued in 1984 and I haven’t seen it for years, lost during several house moves etc, didn’t even need the original to buy the house just the number and passport.
Is it a good or a bad thing he hasn’t said several hundred euros would instantly solve the problem because I actually think I’d pay it? Although he is charging me an arm and a leg for this advice.
Whats it all about, I just want to buy a car. Anyone else had this problem?
Happy days, not.
May 4, 2010 at 7:34 am #98257
I’d just take my passport & house deeds to the council & sign on the padron. Signing on is not for residents only but allows the council to claim money from central government for services for the local population. Signing on the pádron allows the non-resident to vote in municipal elections & be elected to office. ( source : ‘You & the law in Spain’, David Searle. )
Residencía is what used to class you as ‘fiscally resident’ but the reality is you have to be here for more than 183 days to be classed as fiscally resident.
As you have lost your NIE & need a new one these are now a combined NIE/ Residencía certificate since the withdrawing of the ‘tarjeta de extranjeros’. Most regions these days treat anyone with an NIE number as residents, the traffic police certainly do.
May 4, 2010 at 9:05 am #98264
It is simple. Big money & corruption is behind buying a house.
May 5, 2010 at 10:24 pm #98328
I have made an application for this non residents certificate requested by the Ford dealers. Copies of house of deeds and NIE sufficed, didn’t ask for originals.The very nice man at the Town Hall said he knew these had to be issued but he had no idea why. Perhaps he didn’t think it’s helping to keep the Town Hall staff in jobs. The man responsible for signing the certificate will not be back until Monday so my hopes of having my car for the weekend are dashed but each day we get a little closer, it is sat there on the forecourt waiting for me. It will have only taken 2 weeks.
Have no intention of signing on the padron and then having to prove I am not fiscally resident, don’t need any more beaurocratic hassles!
May 6, 2010 at 8:18 am #98333
Signing on the padron does nothing except allow the council to receive extra money to pay for services. Being officially resident in Spain means you live here, nothing else. My daughter is resident in Spain but has lived & worked in the UK for the last 3 years. being fiscally resident is something compltely different & the 1st, requirement is that you spend more than 183 days in the country.
When I bought my new Ford all they wanted was a copy of my passport, even though I had residencía, & my nie number. Trouble is , it’s different everywhere you go. lol.
May 6, 2010 at 8:36 am #98335
Buy a car in UK & keep it there. It is this byzantine bureaucracy that is holding Spain back from progress in the real world.
May 6, 2010 at 11:31 am #98338
I quite agree with Shakeel’s comments about “byzantine bureaucracy that is holding Spain back from progress in the real world”.
Last year I went into a DIY shop in Spain to buy some bits and bobs and although I was paying with cash I was asked for my NEI number and the address of my property. I was absolutely stunned that they should be asking for this information and I couldn’t help but compare that shopping experience with those in my local B&Q in the UK
Two E.U. countries but miles apart both in geographical location and commercial/retail practices
May 6, 2010 at 11:36 am #98339
“….although I was paying with cash I was asked for my NEI number and the address of my property”.
Is it legal for them to do that? 😯
May 6, 2010 at 6:28 pm #98352
Charlie, Charlie,,,,, How long have you been on this forum. First of all as you probably know that a currency of a particular Country is a legal tender & must be accepted by law.
Now, talking about the Law in relation to Spain. Whats have you been smoking ?????
May 6, 2010 at 7:39 pm #98353
I got my car! 😀 I got a call to say the nice man in the town hall had got a deputy to sign my certificate and it was ready to collect. It was a mad dash to get down to town to the bank and town hall on foot before they closed for the day but managed it. The certificate is nothing more than a statement saying I own a property and giving the address and my NIE number, I just don’t understand why the garage insisted on this when I had the deeds etc. Hey ho, job done and it now sits happily in my drive. I keep popping out to have a peep at it!
May 6, 2010 at 7:53 pm #98354
Congratulations. Oh what joy. It seams that you have won the lottery. Now the car manufacturer can book their sales, the dealers franchise can book their profit the sales man can earn his commission. You can buy the bits & bobs for your pride & joy.
The salesman can take Maria out for the Cena. The restaurant can make its profit & the waiter can get his tips & can take Carmen & his mother in law out shopping to buy the dress for the daughter’s baptism………
All the above activity could not have been taken place because of the paper which will ultimately will turn into a loo roll ( Yes I did say loo roll & not Lou Reid ) Than they wonder why the economy does not grow and real and sustainable jobs dont get created.
May 7, 2010 at 12:57 am #98358
Now, talking about the Law in relation to Spain. Whats have you been smoking ?????
Shakeel – after that reply to Poppyseed, I think I should be asking you that
….and can I have some. 😉
Great news Poppyseed, you’re one determined lady.
It is absolutely daft, all this red tape surrounding cars. Only six months at a time in another country, can’t be MOT’d in another country etc. etc. It should be as simple as buying a television, they’re both just things with a load of wires and buttons.
May 7, 2010 at 10:38 am #98365
Thank you Charlie.
Shakeel, not sure why you felt the need to rain on my parade but in the end I got what I wanted and so did the car salesman and presumeably all the others in the chain you refer to. What made it a little easier was everyone being so nice and pleasant, sympathetic and apologetic, at least they were trying to work with me and not against me, even the Town Hall.
May 7, 2010 at 10:48 am #98366
Sorry, poppyseed. It was not intended. Once again I am delighted for you. I am sure that when you win your Lotto this week you will not be that much excited.
The whole thing atleast made the salesman realise that you were a serious buyer and if were doing all the running around that means he does not have to work for his commission on your sale atleast.
May 7, 2010 at 10:07 pm #98383
Shakeel, thanks for your apology even though it did seem to have a sting in it’s tail! To move on, I would say that the salesman did offer to come to the Town Hall with me, but I had already engaged the services of my solicitor who fortunately had a copy of my NIE. I would have no hestitation in doing business with them again.
As for the lotto, well I had an email earlier this week telling me of exciting news about my ticket. As the internet here was playing up I had already secured my retirement and all the other things I was going to do with my mega bucks win and was very excited indeed. After several hours of internet frustration I eventually managed to log on to my lotto account to find I had won £10. I will get over the disappointment just as I will get over the euphoria of finally having a car in Spain and giving the car hire companies the elbow.
May 17, 2010 at 6:42 am #98609
Oh dear! Here’s me thinking of buying a house here! What is an “NE” or is it “NIE”?
May 17, 2010 at 7:20 am #98610
warbaby. NIE is equivalent to our National Insurance. If you do not know this you are at the starting point of a massive learning curve.
You need to do a lot of research and once you have done it start again and again & again. Apart from the conflicting information that you will receive which maybe correct or maybe not be correct the rules change.
Not being unkind you should think if your health deteriorates you should have a plan “B”. Please ensure that you dont burn your boats in UK. If I was in your position I would rent a place and forget about buying. Its your call.
May 17, 2010 at 7:36 am #98611
thankyou shakeel. I don’t intend to burn my boats; I’ve heard & read about too many people that have. As you say: research, research, research!
May 17, 2010 at 11:44 am #98614
You are welcome. I am pleased that you took it in a positove spirit. good luck.
May 18, 2010 at 8:29 pm #98631
I would like to pass on some positive news to prospective car, house or business buyers in Spain. All you need is money and a passport, those that want your money, whatever you are buying, will do all the paperwork for you, without you doing anything at all.
I did it all many years ago and I’m in possession of a paper mountain, and enough NIE numbers to paper a room, and I’m going to buy a new laptop next week, and all I’m going to take with me is money and my passport.
June 15, 2010 at 9:21 am #99087
Well I take back all the good things I said about the Ford dealers i bought the car from. A couple of weeks ago on the way to the station to get a train for a day out in Valencia (3 tickets already bought and paid for) the bloody thing slowed to a crawl, something to do with the accelerator. Managed to get it to the garage after the police stopped me and made me walk the last few hundred meters, missed the train, they fixed it that day but the fault wasn’t covered under the warranty, surprise surprise.
Then I receive an undated letter (postmark 4 June) from them asking me to supply the Padron Certificate so they can register the car in my name……..after all the to-ing and fro-ing I did and they accepted the letter I obtained from the Town Hall and my money saying ‘perfecto’ on 6 May they do this. My lawyer has contacted them today and told me the conversation wasn’t very pleasant and everyone is seeking further advice. Also the official document they gave me to confirm change of ownership is being processed in case stopped by the police expires at the beginning of July.
For information the dealership giving me all this hassle is Ford Autovima in Benicarlo.
June 15, 2010 at 3:43 pm #99106
Yep, Its the same feeling that you did all above board. got a lawyer bought a legal property & when the time came to settle down with your Tinto. The bulldozers came to share your Tinto.
June 16, 2010 at 9:10 am #99116
Señor Shakeel –
yeah but ……
June 16, 2010 at 8:37 pm #99135
It seems the garage had actually lost my certificate from the Town Hall and didn’t want to admit it. I think they saw the error of their ways and went and got a replacement themselves when it was pointed out they had accepted my money for the car and if they refused to do the change of ownership it would mean they had stolen my money (This was the unpleasant conversation my lawyer had with them). So a result but what a pain in the bum.
Very funny pictures Zapatero!
June 17, 2010 at 3:08 pm #99151
How much did your Lawyer charge to sort out what is usually a simple DIY job ❓
June 17, 2010 at 7:38 pm #99165
Well Katy what may seem a simple DIY job to you didn’t to me especially as my Spanish is poor, I’m 2000 miles from Spain right now and they were trying to pull the wool. It seemed much easier to let the lawyer sort it, he knows the language and far more able to handle them at their own game and I thought he would have a far better chance of getting it sorted quickly than I did, and he did with minimum input on my part, just a few emails. How much did he charge? Nothing for this although I would have considered it money well spent if he had charged me. I did pay him at the outset to check the car had no outstanding debts and to accompany me to the Town Hall to arrange the certificate.
June 17, 2010 at 8:10 pm #99168
Don’t lose him/her they sound a treasure 😀
June 17, 2010 at 9:11 pm #99169
If this is what a lawyer in Spain ends up doing in Spain. What else can be said about the profession or the system.
June 17, 2010 at 11:10 pm #99170
Actually he is also doing a lot of other work for us at the moment, probably what you would consider ‘proper’ lawyers work.
June 18, 2010 at 7:19 am #99171
He, maybe doing other work for you. A lawyer should not be involved in what is considered a simple & normal transaction in most advanced economies of the world.
June 18, 2010 at 12:05 pm #99180
You are of course entitled to your opinion about what a lawyer should or shouldn’t do for their client and what you consider to be a normal and simple transaction. In my opinion a lawyer will act on behalf of their client when requested to do so and work to achieve the best outcome for their client. I am not aware of any laws, rules or regulations that exclude a lawyer from acting in transactions, whatever they are when requested to do so, therefore whether they should or should not is a personal opinion only and something to be decided and agreed between the lawyer and the client.
In the case of my car this did in my opinion cease to be a simple transaction and needed intervention before it became in my opinion a serious legal issue.
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