December 13, 2005 at 3:28 pm #51437
Just read John Arlidge’s Sunday Times report on….. Well what’s the point of naming names and being secret about it? (Childish)
I have also studied and read this forum for the past few months and come to the following conclusion:-
John Arlidge – reported on the same company (again bla bla bla) in the past 2 reports that Paul is so keen to keep bringing-up
Paul – who bought from said company (and made a LOT of money) seems to have a vendetta on a par with said reporter.
So, what is the relationship here?
It just so happens that most of the references to estate agents in this forum have focused on one agent in particular
And you let this go on?
Can’t you not see that Paul and John Arlidge (Probably one and the same) are using this website for personal motives.
I challenge Paul and John (If indeed they are different people) to explain to everyone what their problem is?
I have lost all respect for this forum, and the people that use it, the same happened a while ago on another popular forum http://www.anda****a.com
Can’t we just leave this be, enough is enough. I agree that people are entitled to freedom of speech, but this is getting a little tiresome
December 13, 2005 at 3:43 pm #60293
This forum, which I have read for some time now also, should be to help people out into the system of buying in Spain, what areas are good, advise on N.I.E´s etc, not just a place for two people to continually have a pop at one company!!
Why don´t we change the name to “we´ve been stiched” which alot of us have!!! Lets us the V*va marketing phrase, “Never Buy In Spain”, then we will all never sell.
By continually slagging off the coasts we have chosen, we are making it harder for new readers to buy there, and for everyone to move property on, for profit or not.
Or why not keep it to helping each other out with constructive advice….
December 13, 2005 at 5:38 pm #60296
May I make a suggestion? As there seems to be just as many people who WANT to hear the good and the bad stories, (there is a reason WHY people feel so strongly after all).
Is there any way Mark that we can have an additional thread on topics for this forum? It seems that people have a lot of opinions to express. If you were to have a thread for general topics then we can continue to get to the bottom of the truth about buying and selling, which I imagine is why Mark set this excellent forum up in the first place.
Last post. YOU obviously are biased too for whatever reason only known to yourself. Dont hear a lot of other people complaining……we just like to be informed.
December 13, 2005 at 5:46 pm #60297
If you have lost respect for this forum…then don’t read it! 😀 Paul is entitled to have his say, no matter how often he says it. It keeps the topic “alive” for new people using the forum. Paul is not John Arlidge. When Paul stops slating OE, then I will take up the cudgels. I wouldn’t mind betting there will be a fairly long queue behind me.
If OE were not continually abusing people, then nobody would have cause to say anything. As it is they keep putting there head above the parapet…and you know what happens then!
There is plenty of good and constructive advice given here. It is the lack of discipline in the processes of the Spanish property system that stops people buying there.
I don’t think even Paul would take the credit for slowing things up on the Costas….much as he might like to. 😆 He is but a voice in the Spanish wilderness!!
December 13, 2005 at 5:54 pm #60298
Agree with Claire and last guest post.
If you dont like the forum or have something to hide, go to another one. I personally find it extremely informative and very much on the side of the buyer. For a change.
December 13, 2005 at 5:58 pm #60299
You’re posting from the same IP address at the same time (= same person), whilst accusing two other people of being one and the same. Please just use one identity to post.
On the other hand John Arlidge and Paul are not the same person. It’s a daft suggestion.
John Arlidge is an outstanding journalist who writes beautifully on many different subjects for a bunch of leading papers. Don’t expect him to explain himself here. There’s no reason why he should.
You ask why I let this go on; by this you mean allowing Paul and John to use this website for personal motives.
John Arlidge doesn’t use this website. I’d be very surprised if he has ever even visited it, let alone looked at this forum. So I guess you mean to ask why do I let Paul use this website for personal motives.
There’s no rule against personally motivated posts. The forum is full of them, including yours.
The posts criticising agents (without actually naming them) must be less than 5% of the content in this forum. Let’s not exaggerate.
I’m all for this being a constructive place to help others buy in Spain. That’s the reason why I set it up. And I’ve said many times Spain is a great place in which to live and own property. There’s nowhere better on earth in my opinion. You should all buy in Spain; just exercise a little caution when deciding whom to buy from.
But please stop asking me to suppress the few posts that are critical of estate agents in Spain. Can’t you see that criticism like this is, in the long run, healthy for the business? In the past estate agents could get away with pretty much anything, but nowadays it is much more difficult to do so without word getting around. You can all forget about the government doing anything to regulate the business (it would make a mess of it anyway), so the only thing that will force agents to look after their reputations, improve standards, and save this business in the long run is the risk of public exposure and criticism from dissatisfied clients.
December 13, 2005 at 6:18 pm #60300
Well said Mark. I too thought Jim& Joe were the same person…. same style!!
December 13, 2005 at 7:30 pm #60303
well spotted claire 😉
December 13, 2005 at 8:37 pm #60310
I think you meant Jim, not Jon!
December 13, 2005 at 11:09 pm #60315
Well I’m now just plain confused to who’s who 😕
December 13, 2005 at 11:24 pm #60316
Like most here I feel really sorry for those like Claire who bought off-plan only to find all sorts of legal probelms leaving them in the lurch through no fault of their own and is a real scandal
I do however get fed up with that guest of ours who for 2 years keeps moaning about a particular agent on every forum in Spain he can as find. Get over it.
Buying as a speculative investment to try and make a fast buck without having to work and save is no different from stock and shares and sometimes you win and sometimes you lose (especially those who never intend to buy the home at the end). Everyone knowns agents talk a complete load of nonsense about “investment returns” as they’re on commission so you need to form your own opinion based on research and common sense.
December 14, 2005 at 9:22 am #60318
Firstly Jim and I are not the same person, just work colleagues who have both bought out in Spain, and other country´s.
As I have said to you in a private email I do have personal bad experience as do my parents. I like to read these forums and have seen many in the past, which start out as great idea´s, but then just descend into hait mail.
However, these last threads to seem to be generating some good response, as it seems “Guest” from O***n is looking and willing to try to offer some help. You are correct in some of what you say, that critisism can often help to make things better, or for agents to improve their service. In my job, as in yours I am sure (I buy contract cars for a major PLC by the way) it is always important to learn and accept constructive critisism, as long as it is just that, constructive.
As long as it can be kept that way, then this site remains informative for all, but you do have a responsibility for this, and I am not talking about censorship. Paul is using this site, and others, for personal reasons, but as the times article pointed out, he did in fact sell!!!
I love Spain, I will be there this Xmas to see the folks, maybe I will buy again one day. I would not like to see the coasts suffer, as I do have a genuine passion for the place. Lets work to make purchasing better.
I would say from experience, and talking to others, that the real danger when buying in Spain comes from the smaller agents, here today, gone tomorrow with your commission. There are still people who leave “Brains at the airport” don´t use a lawyer, and give money to men in little, dark dingy offices.
You are better off with one of the bigger agents, with whom you can have some comeback as they would like to remain in busuiness. 1 deal of 30,000 is not too important to a big company, to lie for, but for the little ones, it really is. Do the deal, at whatever cost, then run with your commission back to Blighty.
We shpuld watch out for these little ones just as much, from whom it is a hell of a lot harder to get recompense.
December 14, 2005 at 10:00 am #60319katySpectator
The larger agents have committed the biggest abuses regarding misleading ads in the UK press. They could afford the flash ads, all the large print “buy off-plan and make 30% profit” This was pushed so much that many thought the 30% was guaranteed on completion.
The main point is that an agent is selling to you, the “client” is the person who pays the commission, the seller. They just don’t have the buyers interests in the frame.
The larger agents will employ anyone, even people who have just moved to Spain and know nothing about the property market, reason because they are unpaid staff unless they sell.
Many small agents have previously worked for the larger ones and set up on their own, they use just the same practices they were taught. many employees are ex-timeshare sharks.
BTW heard yesterday that Majestic have made 60 staff redundant.
December 14, 2005 at 10:29 am #60320
Joe, you may like to THINK O**** are offering to help….but they will do diddly squat at the end of the day. They’ve got their commission..why would they help us ❓ They say WE did not pay their commission, they get it from the developer. That maybe. BUT..the developer said they would deduct O***** payment from what we are owed..as expenses. 😈
My husband & I accept that we will not have an apartment in which to spend Xmas/New year in with our family (or ever). What we do not accept is that we are not given our deposit back NOW. It is SHOCKING! They have had our money for over 2 years and they say we cannot be reimbursed until October 2006..and that goes for all 64 apartments involved. They have wrongfully used our money(approx120,000 euros X 64) to fund their other projects. They didn’t even own the Building License when the contract was signed. A reputable lawyer(working with OE) would /should NOT have signed this contract. A reputable estate agent would/should have known the status of the building license of the development he was selling. You bet we are MAD and we will tell people about how we have been treated AND by whom.
December 14, 2005 at 1:06 pm #60328
I didnt see the report can someone send me a link – so cut and paste it please TA.
December 14, 2005 at 1:20 pm #60329
Could some one pm the article to me also…please. TIA.
December 14, 2005 at 2:02 pm #60331
Here you go, the link to the latest article. I have read this a few times, and I have to say that in this case it is not O***n who are doing the hard sell. The article reads that O***n introduced the “client” to a developer agent, and it is this agent that has spun things out of control.
The article is a little more neutral, but the author is still choosing to target on particluar agent again for his expose´ It would be nice for John Arlidge to see what the tactics of other major agents are like, who operate both in Spain & Turkey. I can name some, but will not.
Hopefully O***n can learn from this to ensure the developers they work with hire more proffessional sales people.
December 15, 2005 at 8:13 pm #60349
Thank you Joe.
December 23, 2005 at 5:34 pm #60389
2 Points, if as you say I made so much money out of dealing with O***n, why would I want to slate them, and ‘vendetta’ is a very strong word to label at someone, however if anyone feels shafted by this company or any other company, why should they not feel agrieved and why should they let the matter go, and why wouldn’t they wish to point out these deceptions to others especially ‘new’ naive purchasers?
Jim, Joe are talking rubbish, maybe they would be surprised at the number of people who have contacted me and this site for advice re such tactics and this company!
Been on Hols. etc hence late reply.
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